Quebec having immigrants sign a pledge to Quebec values and laws is great progess


Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#1
This week, there have been talks of introducing a pledge to Quebec values and Laws for immigrants settling here.

I for one think that this is a good idea.

It is only logical for a newcomer to adapt to the customs of the host country.

If I decide that i want to move to Russia, I have to learn Russian and adapt to Russian laws and customers... If i go to any other country the same applies.

Therefore tha same MUST apply to immigrants coming here.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Adriatik View Post

This week, there have been talks of introducing a pledge to Quebec values and Laws for immigrants settling here.

I for one think that this is a good idea.

It is only logical for a newcomer to adapt to the customs of the host country.

If I decide that i want to move to Russia, I have to learn Russian and adapt to Russian laws and customers... If i go to any other country the same applies.

Therefore tha same MUST apply to immigrants coming here.

This thread is duplicating one from earlier today. Perhaps the Mod's (in their infinite wisdom)
can merge them?
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/qu...ectations.html
 
Risus
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Adriatik View Post

This week, there have been talks of introducing a pledge to Quebec values and Laws for immigrants settling here.

I for one think that this is a good idea.

It is only logical for a newcomer to adapt to the customs of the host country.

If I decide that i want to move to Russia, I have to learn Russian and adapt to Russian laws and customers... If i go to any other country the same applies.

Therefore tha same MUST apply to immigrants coming here.

Think about it for a second, perhaps the pledge should be to Canadian values seeing as how the country is Canada not Quebec.

Wake up!
 
scratch
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Think about it for a second, perhaps the pledge should be to Canadian values seeing as how the country is Canada not Quebec.

Wake up!

Quebec has control of immigration and I think this pledge would include a lot of Canadian values. The province is an integral part of the country.
 
Risus
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Quebec has control of immigration and I think this pledge would include a lot of Canadian values. The province is an integral part of the country.

You 'think', you don't know... How about language , for example, they are promoting French only. No Canadian value there....
 
scratch
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

You 'think', you don't know... How about language , for example, they are promoting French only. No Canadian value there....

So what are they promoting in New Brunswick? And what would they be promoting in Canada. As much as it is abused the country has two official languages.
Without one or the other we wouldn't have a country to immigrate to.
 
Risus
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

So what are they promoting in New Brunswick? And what would they be promoting in Canada. As much as it is abused the country has two official languages.
Without one or the other we wouldn't have a country to immigrate to.

You make a good point about 2 official languages, but in quebec there is one. Keep in mind it is illegal to have an English sign in quebec...
 
scratch
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

You make a good point about 2 official languages, but in quebec there is one. Keep in mind it is illegal to have an English sign in quebec...

So what, learn the language, it is a bonus in today's world to be bilingual. And it certainly doesn't hurt your resume.
 
scratch
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

So what, learn the language, it is a bonus in today's world to be bilingual. And it certainly doesn't hurt your resume.

And because I think you are a reasonable and open guy, read this:


Justin Trudeau
Trudeau at the 2006 Liberal leadership campaign
Born December 25 1971 (1971--) (age 35)
Ottawa, Ontario Political party Liberal Spouse Sophie Grégoire Relations Pierre Trudeau and Margaret Trudeau Alma mater McGill University Occupation Teacher Religion Roman Catholic Justin Trudeau (born December 25, 1971 in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) is the eldest son of the late former Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau and Margaret Sinclair Trudeau Kemper. Trudeau has recently won the federal Liberal Party nomination in the Montreal riding of Papineau.

Early life and personal life

Trudeau and his younger brother, Alexandre (Sacha), were both born on December 25. Pierre and Margaret Trudeau separated in 1977, when Justin was 6 years old. Pierre retired as Prime Minister in 1984.
Justin Trudeau was only the second child in Canadian history to be born during a father's term as Prime Minister; he was preceded by John A. Macdonald's youngest daughter Margaret Mary Macdonald.
Pierre Trudeau raised his children in relative privacy in Montreal. Justin studied English literature (BA , McGill University) and Education (B.Ed, University of British Columbia), eventually becoming a teacher in British Columbia. He is currently completing a Master of Arts in Geography at McGill University.

Justin Trudeau


At the state funeral of Pierre Trudeau in 2000, Justin delivered a memorable eulogy.[1]
On May 28, 2005, Justin Trudeau married Sophie Grégoire, a former model and Quebec television host. Trudeau is one of several children of former Prime Ministers who have become Canadian media personalities. The others are Ben Mulroney, Catherine Clark, and Justin's younger brother, Alexandre. Though Pierre Trudeau and Brian Mulroney were longtime foes, this rivalry did not carry over to their sons, as Ben Mulroney was a guest at Justin Trudeau's wedding. In April of 2007, the couple announced they were expecting their first child.[2] On October 18, 2007, Grégoire-Trudeau gave birth to the couple's son, Xavier James Trudeau, in Montreal, Quebec.[3]

Media and political career


Advocacy

Trudeau has used his media footing to offer his opinion or act as an advocate for various issues.
  • He has been a campaigner for winter sports safety since the death of his brother Michel in an avalanche on a ski trip in 1998.
  • In 2003, he served as a panelist on CBC Radio's Canada Reads series, where he championed The Colony of Unrequited Dreams by Wayne Johnston.
  • On 17 September 2006, Trudeau hosted a rally in Ramsden Park in Toronto, calling for Canadian participation in the Darfur crisis.
  • On 25 October 2006, Trudeau appeared on CTV's Canada AM. Asked about what he thought of Quebecers asking for national recognition, he replied that nationalism today as a general concept is "based on a smallness of thought.”[4] His comments were seen as a criticism of Michael Ignatieff's push to recognize Quebec as a nation.
  • During the 2006 Liberal Party of Canada leadership convention, Trudeau endorsed Gerard Kennedy.[5] When Kennedy dropped off after the 2nd ballot, Trudeau went with him to support former Environment Minister--and ultimate winner--Stephane Dion.

Entrance into political realm


Trudeau (left) is seated next to Darfurian refugee Tragi Mustafa, and an unknown female event organiser is seated next to Roméo Dallaire (right)


In January 2007, rumours were getting persistent about Justin Trudeau entering politics, especially after being highly active in the 2006 Liberal convention.[6] It was rumoured that Trudeau was going to run in the Montreal Outremont riding which is a traditional Liberal stronghold, after former Minister of Transport Jean Lapierre resigned from the House of Commons to become a political commentator.[7]
A nomination vote for the Liberal candidate in Papineau was held on April 29, 2007, which Trudeau handily won. Trudeau received 690 votes, while runners-up Mary Deros received 350 votes and Basilio Giordano received 220. 634 votes were needed to win the nomination.[8] With his nomination victory, Trudeau will enter the next election against incumbent Bloc Québécois MP Vivian Barbot.
CBC Television announced in April 2007 that Justin Trudeau would appear in the two-part miniseries, The Great War, portraying Talbot Mercer Papineau (1883-1917). Papineau was killed in action in Ypres, Belgium and was among Canada's first Rhodes Scholars. Coincidentally, Trudeau holds the Liberal nomination in the very riding named after Talbot Mercer Papineau's lineage: this includes his great-great-grandfather, seigneur Joseph Papineau (1752-1841) and Talbot's great-grandfather, reformist Patriote Louis-Joseph Papineau (1786-1871).

References

  1. ^ cbc.ca: Justin Trudeau's eulogy
  2. ^ Baby on the way for Justin Trudeau and wife
  3. ^ CTV.ca | Justin Trudeau and wife Sophie welcome new son
  4. ^ GlobeandMail.com: Trudeau says Quebec nationalism an ‘old idea'
  5. ^ ctv.ca: Delegates chat with Trudeau crown prince
  6. ^ ctv.ca: Justin Trudeau eyeing federal politics: report
  7. ^ ctv.ca: Quebec Liberal MP Jean Lapierre to resign
  8. ^ Trudeau wins Montreal riding

External links


Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Justin Trudeau



Wikinews has related news: Justin Trudeau


  • Justin Trudeau at the Internet Movie Database
 
Risus
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

So what, learn the language, it is a bonus in today's world to be bilingual. And it certainly doesn't hurt your resume.

LOL, wake up! French shouldn't be forced on you which is exactly what is happening in quebec. I'm glad I got out of there when I did...
 
scratch
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

LOL, wake up! French shouldn't be forced on you which is exactly what is happening in quebec. I'm glad I got out of there when I did...

It was your choice. Your loss.
Forced. As in a gun to your head, or imprisonment, etc.
The top four business languages:

Chinese
English
Toss up between French and Spanish.

Ambitious: being unilingual is not advantageous.
 
Risus
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

It was your choice. Your loss.
Forced. As in a gun to your head, or imprisonment, etc.
The top four business languages:

Chinese
English
Toss up between French and Spanish.

Ambitious: being unilingual is not advantageous.

More like going to jail if you don't obey the language police. And french and Spanish is way down in the populatory list...
And it certainly was not my loss. It was quebec's loss... they also lost a lot of company headquarters at the time of trudeau to Ontario.
 
scratch
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

More like going to jail if you don't obey the language police. And french and Spanish is way down in the populatory list...
And it certainly was not my loss. It was quebec's loss... they also lost a lot of company headquarters at the time of trudeau to Ontario.

By law Montreal and Vancouver are the banking capitals of Canada.
Please name ALL the company headquarters that left Quebec?
Dazzle me, please.

scratch
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

You make a good point about 2 official languages, but in quebec there is one. Keep in mind it is illegal to have an English sign in quebec...


By the way, it is not illegal to put English signs up in Quebec...

English content is allowed as long as a French translation is of greater or equal size...

Therefore, we can say that English-speaking consumers are represented.
 
s_lone
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Think about it for a second, perhaps the pledge should be to Canadian values seeing as how the country is Canada not Quebec.

Wake up!

Quebec as a provincial entity would ask immigrants to endorse Quebec values. That doesn't stop Canada from doing the same thing. If both Quebec and Canada did so, than immigrants coming to Quebec would be doing 2 pledges.
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

More like going to jail if you don't obey the language police. And french and Spanish is way down in the populatory list...
And it certainly was not my loss. It was quebec's loss... they also lost a lot of company headquarters at the time of trudeau to Ontario.


It is not Quebec that lost out the most in this case, it is the companies... Besides, we just replaced the companies that left with Quebec companies that do just as well and contribute to our GDP (second largest in Canada)

Quebec is one of the top consumer provinces of the country so the companies that left gave up 10s of billions of dollars in profit from 1980 to now.

So what have we learned here? Quebec is still a powerhouse in the Canadian economy and some companies missed out on some serious profit....
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#17
As it goes for being bilingual as being a benifit, that might be in some cases.... however I never needed french for any of my jobs yet, and I imagine I won't anytime soon. Being bilingual in english and french maybe a good thing if I plan on moving to Quebec or France, but I have no desire to do that. All the countries or provinces I think about possibly moving to in the future are pretty well all english.... so I see no need for it in my personal life.

Now in regards to immigrants to our country and making things maditory/forced for them to do in order to adapt, I would like to present this little tid bit for all to read and then perhaps think on whether or not all this maditory pledge crap is actually nessicary:

Rural N.S. good fit for immigrants, transplanted Iranian says
Rural N.S. good fit for immigrants, transplanted Iranian says - Nova Scotia News - TheChronicleHerald.ca

Quote:

NEW GLASGOW — Rural Nova Scotia is one of the best places to go if you’re an immigrant, says Flora Riyahi.

Ms. Riyahi, who emigrated from Iran to Truro 18 years ago, will represent the Colchester Immigration Partnership at a forum on population decline to be held here Tuesday evening.

She and her family are "living proof" that it’s possible for immigrants to live happily in small-town Nova Scotia, she said in an interview Friday.

Her children could come home from school for lunch every day, and she doesn’t spend hours locked in traffic to go to and from work, she said, ticking off the advantages.

"A small community is one big happy family," she said. "In a city, you’re just one more person."

Immigrating to a smaller community means learning the language and the culture by necessity, so new citizens become integrated faster, she said.

Ms. Riyahi said she has relatives who have lived in large Canadian cities for decades and have never learned English, because doctors, lawyers, schools, shops, newspapers, television and everything else are available in their native language.

It’s always hard for the first person to arrive from another country, but "someone has to start," she said.

When she arrived in Truro, there was just one other Iranian family, and now there are at least seven, plus four in New Glasgow. The Colchester Immigration Partnership has succeeded in bringing in 57 people since 2005, and more will come, she said.

It’s easy enough to attract immigrants, but the key to keeping new people is employment, she said. Prejudice against people from other countries exists, but employers’ reluctance to accept foreign qualifications and certification processes is a bigger hurdle, she said.

"People are starting all over again and they need to make a living. All they need is a chance," said Ms. Riyahi. "Eighteen years ago, someone gave me a chance."

Ms. Riyahi, who became a Canadian citizen in 1989, is a financial adviser and is also vice-chairwoman of the province’s Immigration Advisory Council.

"I love this country, and I love this culture, and I want to be part of it," she said. "Rural Nova Scotia is a fabulous place to live."

Ms. Riyahi will be joined at the Nov. 4 panel by Mount Allison University professor David Bruce, lead author of Rural Repopulation of Atlantic Canada; Pictou County high school student Ben MacLean, who will speak on results of a survey on the needs of young people; and Amanda MacInnis of Cumberland Regional Economic Development Association, speaking about repatriation and return migration.

The forum, a project of Sustainable Pictou County and Pictou Regional Development Commission, will be held at the North Nova Education Centre, 343 Park St., New Glasgow, from 6:30 to 9 p.m. Admission is free.

I believe what she says about larger cities is true, in that some immigrants just don't have to really learn the english/french languages since the community is so large, they can communicate with many who have come from the same background. However when they come to the country, they understand that they are starting a whole new life and have to adapt to the ways we have here, but that doesn't mean they have to abandon what they already know as their lives.

What I'm trying to get at, is that I know what it's like in Truro and New Glasgow, as NG was where I was born and raised..... I know just how small town and sometimes, small minded the communities can be against those different from them, but there are no oaths or regulations immigrants need to meet before they are accepted into the communities and apparently many of them are merging into the communities just fine.

So if small towns and communities can intergrate immigrants just fine, what's the excuse for elsewhere? What's the excuse for Quebec?

Larger population of similar immigrants which makes it harder for them to adapt?

Perhaps.... then perhaps the solution is not to force more bureaucracy down everybody's throat..... send new immigrants to rural areas of the country where there is a demand for skilled workers first and then they have no choice but to learn how to adapt..... all the while still giving them the space and freedom to keep their herritage. After two years, they can move to wherever they wish in the country.

*shrugs* Makes sense to me.
 
Risus
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by s_lone View Post

Quebec as a provincial entity would ask immigrants to endorse Quebec values. That doesn't stop Canada from doing the same thing. If both Quebec and Canada did so, than immigrants coming to Quebec would be doing 2 pledges.

Quebec is not special, one country, one pledge...
 
s_lone
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Quebec is not special, one country, one pledge...

It's not about Quebec being special. Any other province can hold the same type of pledge if it wants. Canada isn't a big homogeneous chunk of anglo-saxon monarchy lovers. It's a patchwork and provinces have a certain amount of autonomy in regards to the country as whole.
 
Trex
#20
What a good idea.
Trust Quebec.

The other provinces should follow suit as soon as possible.

There are a heck of a lot of good ideas on the Provincial level that have come out of Qubec.
Some bad ones of course.

The rest of the provinces could do worse than to follow in Quebec's footsteps on a few issues.

Trex
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Quebec is not special, one country, one pledge...

Sorry but Quebec is different... Legislation in the province state that French is the official language, that is a big difference. Whether the legislation is constitutional or not is irrelevant since it is passed legislation in effect since over 2 decades now.

Besides, these laws have been around since the 1980s so if they were unconstitutional, the Supreme Court of Canada would have already blocked them.

If the Supreme Court hasn't been able to block the language laws yet in 2 decades, they will never be able to do it.

Unfotunately for some, the language laws in Quebec are a part of reality and must be followed, therefore Quebec has the right based on language legislation to include usage of French in its pledge.
 
Risus
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

What a good idea.
Trust Quebec.

The other provinces should follow suit as soon as possible.

There are a heck of a lot of good ideas on the Provincial level that have come out of Qubec.
Some bad ones of course.

The rest of the provinces could do worse than to follow in Quebec's footsteps on a few issues.

Trex

If you believe that crap, I have some swamp land to sell you....
 
Risus
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Adriatik View Post

Sorry but Quebec is different... Legislation in the province state that French is the official language, that is a big difference. Whether the legislation is constitutional or not is irrelevant since it is passed legislation in effect since over 2 decades now.

Besides, these laws have been around since the 1980s so if they were unconstitutional, the Supreme Court of Canada would have already blocked them.

If the Supreme Court hasn't been able to block the language laws yet in 2 decades, they will never be able to do it.

Unfotunately for some, the language laws in Quebec are a part of reality and must be followed, therefore Quebec has the right based on language legislation to include usage of French in its pledge.

The language laws in quebec are unconstitutional . Simple as that. Get used to it.
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

The language laws in quebec are unconstitutional . Simple as that. Get used to it.

You probably can't even give me good arguments of how the language laws are unconstitutional.

If they are so unconstitutional, why hasn't the Supreme Court blocked them yet after more than 20 years?

The language laws are here to stay so I think that you will be the one who will have to get used to things...
 
Risus
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Adriatik View Post

You probably can't even give me good arguments of how the language laws are unconstitutional.

If they are so unconstitutional, why hasn't the Supreme Court blocked them yet after more than 20 years?

The language laws are here to stay so I think that you will be the one who will have to get used to things...

The supreme court is afraid of losing quebec. I say let them go... They would come crawling back.
 
Adriatik
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

The supreme court is afraid of losing quebec. I say let them go... They would come crawling back.

You proved me right...

How is that in any way a valid argument? So what you are saying is that the language laws are unconstitutional because The Supreme Court is afraid of losing Quebec? Is that all you could come up with?

Here you desperately need this: McGill University Get some education and then come back to debate...
 
Colpy
Conservative
#27
Okay guys, calm down.

Many years ago Quebec's language laws were found to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada.

The province of Quebec then invoked the "notwithstanding" clause.

therefore the laws stand.

Although they have changed a few times.....


Quote:

In 1988, the court said that English could not be prohibited altogether, but that requiring the predominance of French on commercial signs was a reasonable limit on freedom of expression.

The public reaction in Quebec was swift and forceful. Confronted with the angry demonstrations of those defending Bill 101, Robert Bourassa – back from the political wasteland for his second tour as premier by then – came up with a compromise. Invoking the "notwithstanding" clause to override the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Bourassa introduced Bill 178. It decreed that only French could be used on exterior signs while English would be allowed inside commercial establishments.



CBC News Indepth: Bill 101
Last edited by Colpy; Nov 3rd, 2008 at 07:55 PM..
 
Risus
#28
Thanks for posting that, Colpy. Wasn't the not withstanding clause another of trudeau's bonehead moves?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Thanks for posting that, Colpy. Wasn't the not withstanding clause another of trudeau's bonehead moves?

If I remember correctly, Trudeau did not want the clause, but included it because it was the only way the premiers would accept the Charter.

Not his fault. Trudeau was not at fault.

Having said that, I'll now go to the basement and shoot myself.



Well, except that he could have set aside his ego and his desire for a great (what's the damn word?????? I hate old age.....you know, the word that refers to your reputation as a leader...) anyway, and let Canada wait until there was not a separatist in power in Quebec, and not alienated the province, and avoided the stupidity of Meech Lake and Charlottetown.....but noooooooo.......

Anyway, I digress....
 
Trex
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

If I remember correctly, Trudeau did not want the clause, but included it because it was the only way the premiers would accept the Charter.

Not his fault. Trudeau was not at fault.

Having said that, I'll now go to the basement and shoot myself.



Well, except that he could have set aside his ego and his desire for a great (what's the damn word?????? I hate old age.....you know, the word that refers to your reputation as a leader...) anyway, and let Canada wait until there was not a separatist in power in Quebec, and not alienated the province, and avoided the stupidity of Meech Lake and Charlottetown.....but noooooooo.......

Anyway, I digress....

Legacy?