Quebec as a Nation=Quebec as a Nazi regime


CDNBear
#1
Quebec's referendum: acid test for the left. Break the grip of national chauvinism - independence for Quebec!

Workers Vanguard, 3 November 1995

On October 30, the population of Quebec voted narrowly against secession from Canada in a referendum organized by the separatist Parti Québecois (PQ) government. The No side eked out its victory by a razor-thin 50.6 to 49.4 percent in an extremely heavy turnout. About 60 percent of French-speaking Québecois cast Yes ballots for "sovereignty," while the English-speaking and immigrant minorities, both concentrated in Montréal, overwhelmingly voted No.
When polls showed support for the separatist forces surging in the final week of the campaign, the capitalist money markets spoke out loudly in favor of "Canadian unity." The Canadian dollar went into free fall, and the Toronto Stock Exchange had its biggest one-day drop in six years. Airline companies and the government-owned Via Rail slashed fares by up to 90 percent to bring thousands of people from English Canada to a flag-waving "unity" rally in Montréal on October 27.
In the run-up to the referendum, federal prime minister Jean Chrétien warned that the government would not recognize the legitimacy of a narrow Yes majority. But now, with the No side having won by the slimmest of margins, Ottawa insists that the result is definitive and that Quebec's place in Canada is effectively resolved.
In fact, the referendum has resolved nothing. The outcome has only deepened and exacerbated the poisonous national division in Canadian society. There will be a further chauvinist backlash against Quebec from English Canada, especially in the West. Meanwhile, Quebec itself is deeply and bitterly polarized. In Montréal, crowds of No and Yes supporters threw stones and traded punches as they chanted "Canada, Canada" or "Québec, Québec." Immediately after the vote, PQ premier Jacques Parizeau launched a vicious attack on immigrants, telling his followers they had been beaten "by money and the ethnic vote." Promising to win "next time," Quebec's bourgeois-nationalist leaders will now seize on their narrow loss to scapegoat minorities and increase pressures aimed at pushing out anyone who is not white and francophone (French-speaking).
All this underlines the necessity for Marxists to advocate the independence of Quebec as the means to cut through the national divide which sets worker against worker along national lines and poisons the prospects for anti-capitalist class struggle (see "Independence for Quebec!" WV No. 629, 22 September). We print below a leaflet issued on October 25 by the Trotskyist League/Ligue Trotskyste, Canadian section of the International Communist League.
On October 30, the population of Quebec will vote for or against sovereignty. In the present circumstances, this is a clear referendum on independence. The oppression of the Qu b cois, who form a separate nation with their own distinct language and culture, is a cornerstone of capitalist rule in Canada. From the British Conquest of 1759, to the crushing of the Patriote rebellion in 1837, to the War Measures Act of 1970 and repeated threats to "use the sword" against any move to independence, the Anglo-chauvinist rulers have kept Quebec forcibly confined in a "united," and necessarily oppressive, federal state.
The government in Ottawa has made clear it is not about to agree to any amicable new "partnership" with Quebec. Liberal prime minister Chrétien, who sat in the Trudeau cabinet when Ottawa sent the army to occupy Montréal in 1970, threatens to refuse to recognize a majority Yes vote as a mandate for independence. And the New Democratic Party (NDP) provincial premiers Romanow and Harcourt (and ex-premier Rae in Ontario) have joined the Liberals, Tories (Conservatives) and Preston Manning's viciously anti-Quebec Reform Party in a grotesque chauvinist front against Quebec's national rights.
The prospects for anti-capitalist class struggle in Canada today are deeply poisoned by nationalist bigotry. Spawned by the oppression of the Québecois under the heel of the unitary Canadian state, and fueled by the bourgeois nationalists of the Parti Quebecois (PQ) and Bloc Quebecois (BQ) who seek to be exploiters of their "own" working class, these animosities have bitterly divided the working class of English Canada and Quebec. As revolutionary internationalists who seek to clear the road for common struggle by the workers of both nations against their common capitalist enemy, the Trotskyist League/Ligue Trotskyste calls for an independent Quebec. Thus we believe that class- conscious workers in Quebec should vote Yes in the coming referendum.
Since the triumph of the "Quiet Revolution" in the 1960s and '70s, the development of Quebec society has been sharply away from assimilation into English-dominated Canada and toward separation. The late 1980s/early '90s saw a vicious chauvinist uproar in English Canada against the Meech Lake Accord's simple affirmation that Quebec is a "distinct society." This was followed by another surge in separatist sentiment in Quebec, leading to a massive vote for Bouchard's ind pendantiste BQ in the 1993 federal election. In the same election, workers in whole regions of English Canada backed the anti-Quebec bigots of Manning's Reform Party.
National chauvinism has divided the workers, undermining class struggle in the face of ever more sweeping attacks on wages, jobs and social programs from both Ottawa and the provincial governments. The union movement is increasingly riven: today not only all three Quebec labor federations but even the Quebec wings of countrywide unions like the Auto and Postal Workers support independence. We advocate independence for Quebec as the means to break down national and chauvinist antagonisms. Only through separation into two independent states can it be made clear to the workers of both nations that their real enemy is not "the French" or "les Anglais," but their "own" capitalist rulers.
Defend Quebec's Rights, Defend Native Rights!

While Chrétien and his lieutenants brandish the sword of "Canadian unity," nationalist leaders Bouchard and Parizeau want independence in order to more fully exploit the workers of Quebec, and lord it over Native peoples and other minorities. Bouchard's grotesque comment about the need for more children "of the white races" in Quebec speaks volumes about the racist mindset of these bourgeois nationalists, mirroring the anti- immigrant and anti-Native hysteria fanned by the rulers in English Canada.
Aboriginal people in particular are in the racist rulers' crosshairs. The PQ's draft sovereignty bill pledges to uphold Quebec's "territorial integrity." These are code words for denial of the rights of the Cree, Inuit and other Native peoples who make up the overwhelming population of northern Quebec and have made clear that they do not want to be part of an independent Quebec. The capitalists in both Quebec and English Canada are determined to hold onto this resource-rich region, whose rivers feed the hydroelectric power stations that are the mainstay of the modern Quebec economy.
The labor movement must defend Native rights against today's all-sided racist offensive. In particular, that means upholding the right of the aboriginal populations of the north to regional autonomy and to decide their own fate, whether that be in Quebec or a rump Canada. But we emphasize that, in either case, the capitalist ruling class will continue to oppress and brutalize the Native peoples. We fight for an egalitarian socialist society which can alone redress the centuries-long oppression of the aboriginal populations.
Quebec and the Left

A correct stance toward the national question in the Canadian state today is decisive for those who would fight for working-class unity and a socialist future. But in both English Canada and Quebec, most of the left is in thrall to either Quebec nationalism or--far worse --to Anglo chauvinism.
The NDP, right-wing social democrats who seek to manage capitalism on behalf of Bay Street, are by no means alone in appealing to prop up the oppressive federal state. The Communist Party, for example, has stayed true to form in calling for a No vote, issuing yet another "urgent appeal for a united Canada" which calls for a "new, equal and democratic union."

Then there are the International Socialists (I.S.), who in 1992 called to vote in favor of (then prime minister) Mulroney's Charlottetown referendum, which aimed to reinforce the chauvinist status quo of a "united" capitalist Canada. On 20 September, Socialist Worker came out for a Yes vote in Quebec's sovereignty referendum, albeit with spurious arguments which attempted to dodge the question of independence. Then the I.S. did a 180 degree about-face. In the next issue (4 October) they wrote:
"We have to let them [Quebec workers] know that they are welcome in Canada. We need them in our struggles...."We must demand that our government negotiate with Quebec in good faith. We must demand that [federal finance minister] Martin and Chrétien abandon all threats and agree to a new economic and political association."
The fact that self-proclaimed socialists could portray the Anglo-chauvinist capitalist rulers in Ottawa as "our" government says just about all there is to say about where the I.S. is coming from. Their plea for Chrétien to "negotiate" a new "economic and political association" is simply a call to refurbish the existing, necessarily oppressive capitalist state.
A small Maoist group in Montréal, Action Socialiste (A.S.), raises the call to "Don't Vote Yes!"--which, they explain, means you should vote No, abstain, boycott, or whatever else you want. A.S. claims that this is the way to "rebel against the capitalists" of Quebec. But beyond the fact that most Quebecois capitalists currently oppose independence, A.S. willfully ignores the reality of national oppression in Quebec--and that this oppression has produced deepgoing national divisions which sharply undercut prospects for proletarian struggle in both nations. Behind their left rhetoric stands de facto support to the oppressive federal status quo.
Even worse, a leaflet issued by the tiny Bolshevik Tendency in Toronto calls for a No vote while nowhere mentioning--much less opposing--the national oppression of Quebec. Three years ago, the BT refused to vote No to Mulroney's Charlottetown gambit. Their statement calling for abstention failed even to defend Quebec's right to independence. Now they are quick to say No to Quebec separation, claiming, in the face of all reality, that English Canadian and Québecois workers show a "considerable desire for unity."
The BT flatly denies that there has been an upsurge of chauvinism in English Canada over recent years, or that the national divide has served to stifle working-class struggle throughout the Canadian state. Instead they conjure up a fantasy world where Québecois workers retain the militancy of the 1960s and early '70s--militancy which was in fact spawned in large part by opposition to national oppression--and continue to spark joint class struggle across Canada. The BT's position isn't so much self-delusional as an expression of their disdain for any kind of struggle against special oppression. In the real world, their call for a No vote puts them in a united front with the chauvinist Canadian ruling class.
Despite ritual genuflection to the right of self-determination and appeals to the Quebec working class to "unite and fight," from the Communist Party on down these organizations end up capitulating to the Anglo-chauvinist status quo. As we wrote in the latest issue of Spartacist Canada (No. 105, September/October 1995), "Only by standing forthrightly against the nationalism of an oppressor nation can the proletarian vanguard claim the moral authority to call on workers of the oppressed nation to fight their `own' nationalist leaders, who seek to solidify their place among the exploiters and oppressors."
Toward Socialist Revolution

Our advocacy of Quebec independence has nothing in common with that of the various "left" apologists for nationalism. While calling for a Yes vote, organizations like the Communist League and the Gauche Socialiste group (Quebec supporters of the fake- Trotskyist United Secretariat) provide a left cover for the bourgeois nationalists of the PQ and BQ.
Rejecting the elementary proposition that there should be equal language rights for all, including francophones (French speakers) in English Canada and anglophones in Quebec, these groups support restrictive and undemocratic legislation like the PQ's French-unilingualist Bill 101. Far from fighting for a revolutionary working-class alternative to the nationalists, three years ago Gauche Socialiste even tried to form a joint youth group with the PQ. Meanwhile their co-thinkers in English Canada, Socialist Challenge, support the NDP, who are ferocious enemies of Quebec's national rights!
The task of Marxist revolutionaries is not to ignore or minimize the realities of national and racial oppression--the stock-in-trade of the social democrats and most fake-leftists-- but to put forward a revolutionary program and perspective which can overcome them. Through advocating independence for Quebec, we seek to get the national question "off the agenda": to lay a basis for redirecting the workers' consciousness and struggle against their "own" capitalists, whether in Ottawa and Toronto's Bay Street financial district or Quebec City and Montréal's Rue St-Jacques. Our fight is for a revolutionary workers party which can rally the multiracial, binational working class against all forms of capitalist exploitation and oppression, in the struggle for international socialist revolution.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/44/029.html
 
Sassylassie
#2
Quote: Through advocating independence for Quebec, we seek to get the national question "off the agenda": to lay a basis for redirecting the workers' consciousness and struggle against their "own" capitalists, whether in Ottawa and Toronto's Bay Street financial district or Quebec City and Montréal's Rue St-Jacques. Our fight is for a revolutionary workers party which can rally the multiracial, binational working class against all forms of capitalist exploitation and oppression, in the struggle for international socialist revolution.


I hate SOCIALISM, it's an idea of nervana that doesn't work. I like the above quote an "International Struggle." OKay, me thinks some from Quebec need meds for their "Visions of Grandeur".
 
CDNBear
#3
I just liked the quotes of the extremeists and who they blame for losing.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#4
I think socialism works and though a high ideal to reach for is workable. Most western goverments are to some extent socialist, even the US. Communism does not work. Communism has the ability to mass huge numbers of relatively poor peoples to work on infrastructure projects and may supply the basic needs of society, but does not address the "wants" of a society. People want to advance, they want better for their children, they want luxury items. All work and no play makes Jack/Jill a dull person. Socialism addresses the "wants" of society. People want to be looked after when they grow old, they want effective healthcare, they want quality education for their children.

Capitalism does not work. The gap between rich and poor gets wider all the time. Wealth accumulates in the top percentile of the population. Eventually the poor rebel. Maybe not violently but fringe parties arise that capture the imagination of people with grand plans of wealth redistribution and equalization. Nationalism rise it's ugly head as outsiders or the elite are blamed for the woes of society. If the elite remain in power they turn the peoples attention outside their own borders. If the downtrodden come to power they attack the intellectuals and entrepeneurs.

I feel if Quebec seperated, they would have a civil war with the native population. Northern Quebec where all the resources are is almost all Cree nations people. Quebec is not viable without the north, Ungava Penninsula and the Labrador border region. Natives in Quebec did not have the vote till 1970. I think they will elect to stay with Canada.
 
Logic 7
#5
You guys are just retards, quebec will never be like the nazi, they had the rotchilbank behind the nazi, which quebec doesnt, they had the best army at the time, which quebec never will, quebec are the nicest to native peoples in canada, don't you guys knows canadian history?? do you remember who decided to kill them all?? not the french, but the brits which are canadians and americans today.Instead french were dealing with native indians, then one day, the barbarian came , they allied themselves with iroquoi, which is an indian tribe, where all of the rest of indian tribes didnt like,it is about time you get your facts straights,you guys make me laugh at the highest level.
 
elevennevele
#6
Quote:

Quebec as a Nation=Quebec as a Nazi regime

You go too far with this stuff. For one who is so sensitive (from your many examples here) on other peoples usage of ‘nazi’, you take quite the liberties with the wordage yourself. Granted, there is some prejudice involved in some areas, and some prejudice involved from the western attitude which then fuels where that becomes directed.

That said, I think it's unfortunate that you are probably building your impressions by the examination of the few in order to make sweeping generalizations to then persecute the whole.

Quote:

Quebec as a Nation=Quebec as a Nazi regime

The only way you'll find out you are wrong is by meeting the people you obviously will never give yourself the opportunity to meet. So therefore, you end up becoming one who contributes to the hopelessness of the situation rather than one who can contribute to the 'respect' and dialogue that needs to be felt by both sides which is our hope in bringing us, or keeping us together.
 
CDNBear
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7 View Post

You guys are just retards, quebec will never be like the nazi, they had the rotchilbank behind the nazi, which quebec doesnt, they had the best army at the time, which quebec never will, quebec are the nicest to native peoples in canada, don't you guys knows canadian history?? do you remember who decided to kill them all?? not the french, but the brits which are canadians and americans today.Instead french were dealing with native indians, then one day, the barbarian came , they allied themselves with iroquoi, which is an indian tribe, where all of the rest of indian tribes didnt like,it is about time you get your facts straights,you guys make me laugh at the highest level.

Are you for real?

Do you know any form of reality?

The Natives in Quebec hate the seperatists...
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...=M1ARTM0010394
You really should get your facts straight on the Natives. You really show your historical knowledge in this post.
The leaders of the seperatist movement are racists...
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki...he_ethnic_vote



Quote: Originally Posted by elevennevele View Post

You go too far with this stuff. For one who is so sensitive (from your many examples here) on other peoples usage of ‘nazi’, you take quite the liberties with the wordage yourself. Granted, there is some prejudice involved in some areas, and some prejudice involved from the western attitude which then fuels where that becomes directed.

That said, I think it's unfortunate that you are probably building your impressions by the examination of the few in order to make sweeping generalizations to then persecute the whole.



The only way you'll find out you are wrong is by meeting the people you obviously will never give yourself the opportunity to meet. So therefore, you end up becoming one who contributes to the hopelessness of the situation rather than one who can contribute to the 'respect' and dialogue that needs to be felt by both sides which is our hope in bringing us, or keeping us together.

Ummm, you don't suppose that everyone has the ablity to use sarcasm or inflaming words to drive home a point or draw attention to a subject?

Besides, nazi seems to be the only word the moonbats are capable of understanding.
 
Winnipegger
#8
Separatists just assumed Quebec's Aboriginals would follow whatever they (Separatists) do. They have their own say, and they do not want to separate.
 
CDNBear
#9
A smart newbie you are Winnipegger.
 
Logic 7
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Are you for real?

Do you know any form of reality?

The Natives in Quebec hate the seperatists...
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...=M1ARTM0010394
You really should get your facts straight on the Natives. You really show your historical knowledge in this post.
The leaders of the seperatist movement are racists...
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki...he_ethnic_vote





The leaders of separatist movements are the parti-quebecois, and the parti quebecois got the most support from the native than any other political movment, nice try, secondly it doesnt change the fact,that french peoples were the nicest one to the natives, and then the barbarian came, wich are the brits/can/americ. and did their genocide on natives indians, yep even worst than the holocost mulitiplied by 20 .And none of what you say, prove quebec is going to be a nazi nation, again, you are turning this whole thread into a nut point.
 
CDNBear
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7 View Post

The leaders of separatist movements are the parti-quebecois, and the parti quebecois got the most support from the native than any other political movment, nice try, secondly it doesnt change the fact,that french peoples were the nicest one to the natives, and then the barbarian came, wich are the brits/can/americ. and did their genocide on natives indians, yep even worst than the holocost mulitiplied by 20 .

Hey illogic, that is history. Try catching up to the present day Quebec where Native rights are dismissed on a whim by Quebec courts.

I want to see your proof of how the Natives in Quebec voted.

Take your meds, I am Native, raised in Quebec on a reserve, have family still on reservations in Quebec, I KNOW how the Quebecuois treat Natives you ass. You really need help, if you think the Natives are going to follow your dear leaders in to the brave new world of nazi quebec. That would be a death sentance.
 
CDNBear
#12
This is how they respect the rights of the Natives in Quebec...

The Oka Crisis was a land dispute between the Mohawk nation and the town of Oka, Quebec which began on March 11, 1990, and lasted until September 26, 1990. It resulted in three deaths, and would be the first of a number of well-publicised violent conflicts between Indigenous people and the Canadian Government in the late 20th century.

Contents [hide]
1
2 Immediate causes
3 Crisis
4 Resolution
5 Repercussions
6 Legacy
7 See also
8 References
9 External links



[edit]
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

The crisis developed from a dispute between the town of Oka and the Mohawk community of Kanesatake. For 260 years, the Mohawk nation had been pursuing a land claim which included a burial ground and a sacred grove of pine trees near Kanesatake, which is one of the oldest hand-planted stands in North America, created by the Mohawks' ancestors. This brought them into conflict with the town of Oka, which was developing plans to expand a golf course onto the disputed land.

In 1717, the governor of New France granted the lands encompassing the cemetery and the pines to a Catholic seminary to hold the land in trust for the Mohawk nation. The Church expanded this agreement to grant themselves sole ownership of the land, and proceeded to sell off the Mohawk peoples' land and timber. In 1868, one year after Confederation, the chief of the Oka Mohawk people, Joseph Onasakenrat, wrote a letter to the Church condemning them for illegally holding their land and demanding its return. The petition was ignored. In 1869, Onasakenrat returned with a small armed force of Mohawks and gave the missionaries eight days to return the land. The missionaries called in the police, who imprisoned the Mohawks. In 1936, the seminary sold the remaining territory and vacated the area. These sales were also protested vociferously by the Mohawks, but the protests produced no results.[1]

In 1961, a nine-hole golf course, le Club de golf d'Oka, was built on land claimed by the Mohawk People, who launched a legal protest against construction. Yet, by the time the case was heard, much of the land had already been cleared and construction had begun on a parking lot and golf greens adjacent to the Mohawk cemetery.

In 1977, the band filed an official land claim with the federal Office of Native Claims regarding the land. The claim was accepted for filing, and funds were provided for additional research of the claim. Nine years later, the claim was finally rejected for failing to meet key criteria. [2]

[edit]
Immediate causes
The mayor of Oka, Jean Ouellette, announced in 1989 that the remainder of the pines would be cleared to expand the members-only golf club's course to eighteen holes. Sixty luxury condominiums were also planned to be built in a section of the pines. The town of Oka stood to make money from the expansion and Mayor Ouellette was a member of the private club that stood to benefit most. However, none of these plans were made in consultation with the Mohawks.

As a protest against a court decision which allowed the golf course construction to proceed, some members of the Mohawk community erected a barricade blocking access to the area in question. Mayor Ouellette demanded compliance with the court order, but the protestors refused. Quebec's Minister for Native Affairs John Ciaccia wrote a letter of support for the natives, stating that "these people have seen their lands disappear without having been consulted or compensated, and that, in my opinion, is unfair and unjust, especially over a golf course."

[edit]
Crisis

Mohawk warrior stands atop an overturned Sûreté du Québec car as part of the barricadeDespite the letter, the mayor asked the Sûreté du Québec to intervene on July 11, citing Mohawk criminal activity around the barricade. The Mohawk people, in accordance with the Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy, asked the women, the caretakers of the land and "progenitors of the nation", whether or not the arsenal they had amassed should remain. The women decreed that the weapons should be used only if the Sûreté du Québec opened fire first.

A police SWAT team swiftly attacked the barricade deploying tear gas canisters and flashbang grenades in an attempt to create confusion in the Mohawk ranks. It is unclear whether the police or Mohawks opened fire with gunshots first, but after a thirty-second firefight the police fell back, abandoning six cruisers and a bulldozer. During the gun battle, 31 year old Corporal Marcel Lemay of the Sûreté du Québec was shot in the face and died a short while later. After the funeral a few days later, the SQ and the Mohawks lowered their flags to half-mast. The Mohawks sent condolences but refused to accept responsibility for the death, blaming Mayor Ouellette for ordering the armed assault on the blockade.


Native Indians from the Seton Lake Indian Band blockade the BC Rail line in support of Oka, while an RCMP officer looks on.The situation escalated as the local Mohawks were joined by natives from across Canada and the United States. The natives refused to dismantle their barricade and the Sûreté du Québec established their own blockades to restrict access to Oka and Kanesatake. Other Mohawks at Kahnawake, in solidarity with the Kanesatake Mohawks, blockaded the Mercier Bridge between the Island of Montreal and the South Shore suburbs at the point where it passed through their territory. At the peak of the crisis, the Mercier Bridge and highways 132, 138 and 207 were all blocked. Enormous traffic jams and frayed tempers resulted as the crisis dragged on.

The Canadian federal government agreed to spend 5.3 million dollars to purchase the section of the pines where the expansion was to take place, to prevent any further development. This exchange left the Mohawks outraged as the problems that led to the situation had not been addressed - ownership of the land had simply moved from one level of government to another.

Racial hatred occasionally broke through the surface of the crisis as traffic frustration at the blockades grew into anger. The flames were fanned by radio host Gilles Proulx who repeatedly reminded his listeners that the Mohawks "couldn't even speak French" and the federal Member of Parliament for Chateauguay said that all the natives in Quebec should be shipped off to Labrador "if they wanted their own country so much".


Mohawk warrior Ronald "Lasagne" Cross confronts 'Van Doo' perimeter sentry while surrounded by mediaWhen it was apparent that the Sûreté du Québec had lost control of the situation, the RCMP was brought in but were soon overwhelmed by the Mohawks and mobs created by the blocked traffic. Ten constables were hospitalized and on 14 August Quebec premier Robert Bourassa requisitioned the assistance of the Canadian Forces in "aid to the civil power" by invoking the National Defence Act. Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney was reluctant, but had no choice as it was Bourassa's right under the Act to employ the military when required to maintain law and order, the same as Bourassa had done with earlier Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau in the October Crisis in 1970. The Chief of the Defence Staff, General John de Chastelain accordingly placed Quebec-based troops in support of the provincial authorities. Some 2500 regular and reserve troops from the 34th and 35th Canadian Brigade Groups and the 5th Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group were put on notice and, on the morning of 20 August, 33 troops of the Quebec-based Royal 22e Regiment, the 'Van Doos', led by Major Alain Tremblay took three barricades and arrived at the final blockade leading to the disputed area. The Sûreté du Québec had established a no man's land of one and a half kilometres between themselves and the barricade at the Pines, but the army pushed this to within five metres.

[edit]
Resolution
On August 29, at the Mercier Bridge blockade, the Mohawks negotiated an end to their protest with Lieutenant Colonel Robin Gagnon, 'Van Doo' commander on the South Shore of Montreal. Then the siege of the Kahnawake reserve was over. The Mohawks at Oka felt betrayed at the loss of their most effective bargaining chip, for once traffic was flowing again, the Quebec government rejected all further negotiations.

On September 25, the final engagement of the crisis took place when a Mohawk warrior walked around the perimeter with a long stick, setting off the flares the army had set up to warn them of any escapes from the area. The army turned a hose on the man, but the hose lacked enough pressure to disperse a crowd. The Mohawks taunted the soldiers and then started throwing water balloons at them. Some Canadian soldiers responded by returning intact water balloons and a playful water fight ensued.

By September 26 the Mohawks had had enough. They dismantled their guns and threw them in a septic tank, ceremonially burned tobacco and then walked out of the pines and back to the reservation. Many were arrested by the army.

The Oka Crisis lasted seventy-eight days and resulted in the death of SQ Corporal Marcel Lemay. Two other deaths have also been indirectly attributed to the crisis: Joe Armstrong, a seventy-one-year-old World War II veteran who had died of a stress-induced heart attack after a confrontation with an angry Quebecois crowd; and an elderly Quebecois man who died after being exposed to tear gas on July 11.[citation needed]

The golf-course expansion, which had originally triggered the situation, was cancelled. The Oka Crisis eventually precipitated the development of Canada's First Nations Policing Policy.

[edit]
Repercussions
International response to the Oka Crisis was harsh. The International Federation of Human Rights has criticized the tactics of both the SQ and the Canadian Army.[citation needed] Amnesty International raised allegations of torture and abuses following the final arrest of six of the Mohawk people, and added Canada to its list of human rights violators.[citation needed]

Mayor of Oka, Jean Ouellette was reelected in a landslide victory in 1991 and said of the crisis, "If I had to do it all again, I would," citing his responsibilities as mayor.[citation needed]

A few years after the crisis, the Mohawks of Kahnawake established the Kahnawake Gaming Commission and started issuing "licences" to gambling operators who host their Internet gaming websites on their reserve. Both the Canadian and Quebec governments dispute the legality of this operation, but have not risked taking further action. The websites hosted by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission are the only gambling sites that have operated in North America without legal action being taken against them.

[edit]
Legacy
Canadian filmmaker Alanis Obomsawin has made several documentaries about the Oka Crisis, including Kanehsatake: 270 Years of Resistance (1993) and Rocks at Whiskey Trench (2000). Another documentary by Alex MacLeod, called Acts of Defiance, also came out in 1993. All of these documentaries were produced by Canada's National Film Board.

Micheal Baxendale and Craig MacLaine have written a book on the crisis, This Land Is Our Land: The Mohawk Revolt at Oka. Geoffrey York and Loreen Pindera's People of the Pines: The people and the Legacy of Oka (1991) is considered the definitive text on the subject. Gerald R. Alfred, a Kahnawake Mohawk who was part of the band council during the crisis, and who later went on to become a professor of Political Science, wrote Heeding the Voices of our Ancestors: Kahnawake Mohawk Politics and the Rise of Native Nationalism (1995), based on his dissertation.

Robin Philpot has also written a book about the way the crisis was used as a political tool for English Canada, following the failed Meech Lake Accord: Oka: dernier alibi du Canada anglais (1991)

Canadian punk band Propagandhi recorded a song about the Oka Crisis for their 1998 release Where Quantity Is Job #1. The song was entitled "I Would Very Much Like to See What Happened in Oka in 1990 Happen Everywhere", and, as the title would indicate, praised the actions of the Mohawk people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis
 
CDNBear
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7 View Post

.And none of what you say, prove quebec is going to be a nazi nation, again, you are turning this whole thread into a nut point.

Thanx for adding that later.

Yes everything I have posted does point to the Quebecuois as a racist movement, looking to create a culturally pure state.

Parizeau blames the ethnics and specifically the Jews for the Non vote winning.

What does that tell you?

That he's smart?

NON?

Ballots are secrect, so he pulled his racist shyte out of his hat and showed us all what you and him are like.

I'm still waiting for your proof the Natives support the parti duh quebecuois.

I've posted that the leader of the Assembly of First Nations, the duely ellect representative of all Natives in Canada, has stated otherwise.

So where is your proof?
 
Sassylassie
#14
Bear didn't the Federal Courts rule that Quebec Natives have a right to say what happens to Quebec in the event of it seperating? Ergo the Natives can form their own Nation within Quebec and most of the disputed lands are legally the Natives Land so Quebec would be left grid locked and natural resources poor? It's all fairy dust anyway, Canadians are not going to let Quebec flounce off anytime soon.
 
CDNBear
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Sassylassie View Post

Bear didn't the Federal Courts rule that Quebec Natives have a right to say what happens to Quebec in the event of it seperating? Ergo the Natives can form their own Nation within Quebec and most of the disputed lands are legally the Natives Land so Quebec would be left grid locked and natural resources poor? It's all fairy dust anyway, Canadians are not going to let Quebec flounce off anytime soon.

The biggest problem is that an independant Quebec would not have to uphold or honour treaties written with the fed's. Or any of the treaties that were derived from the Commonwealth Authority.

Using Quebecs history as a template, it is fair to say that they would run down the Natives, if given the chance.
 
CDNBear
#16
More violations of Native rights...
http://www.gcc.ca/archive/article.php?id=36
http://www.gcc.ca/
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica.../speech59a.htm
http://www.faq-qnw.org/petition_eng.htm
http://www.american.edu/TED/james.htm
Last edited by CDNBear; Dec 15th, 2006 at 07:48 PM..
 
Sassylassie
#17
Wow that's quite the Human rights record, NOT. Quebec should be bloody ashamed, I hope Bear that in the event Quebec Seperates the Natives put up one hell of fight. Hello it's not like the rest of Canada would come to Quebec' aide, and they don't have a militia or an Army to protect La Belle from harm. My moneys on the Natives, heres a fifty.
 
CDNBear
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Sassylassie View Post

Wow that's quite the Human rights record, NOT. Quebec should be bloody ashamed, I hope Bear that in the event Quebec Seperates the Natives put up one hell of fight. Hello it's not like the rest of Canada would come to Quebec' aide, and they don't have a militia or an Army to protect La Belle from harm. My moneys on the Natives, heres a fifty.

Honestly Sass, I'm at that point, both financialy and emotionally, that I would ignore my father and rally up with my Brothers and my Cousins and take on the Quebecuois.

Unlike the racist impression John Muff has of the Natives in Quebec. They are well armed and have been quietly preparing for the day.

I'ld like to know where John Muff and illogic live. I would like to see the looks on their faces as a circa 1960's VietNam surplus APC, complete with 50 cal and a big yellow smilie face spray painted on the front, comes rollin' down their street, with a couple mohawk haired Warriors at the sticks. LMAO
 
CDNBear
#19
• A 1989 Gallup poll showed that while 61 per cent of Quebecers believed bilingual signs should be tolerated in the province, 77 per cent also said it was more important for francophones to preserve their culture than to honour the freedom of speech of English-speaking Quebecers.
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-73-1297...bill101/clip12

Gotta love the love from the Quebecuois eh?
 
CDNBear
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7 View Post

You guys are just retards, quebec will never be like the nazi, they had the rotchilbank behind the nazi, which quebec doesnt, they had the best army at the time, which quebec never will, quebec are the nicest to native peoples in canada, don't you guys knows canadian history?? do you remember who decided to kill them all?? not the french, but the brits which are canadians and americans today.Instead french were dealing with native indians, then one day, the barbarian came , they allied themselves with iroquoi, which is an indian tribe, where all of the rest of indian tribes didnt like,it is about time you get your facts straights,you guys make me laugh at the highest level.

Quote: Originally Posted by Logic 7 View Post

The leaders of separatist movements are the parti-quebecois, and the parti quebecois got the most support from the native than any other political movment, nice try, secondly it doesnt change the fact,that french peoples were the nicest one to the natives, and then the barbarian came, wich are the brits/can/americ. and did their genocide on natives indians, yep even worst than the holocost mulitiplied by 20 .And none of what you say, prove quebec is going to be a nazi nation, again, you are turning this whole thread into a nut point.

Please show us where you got your information on the Natives of Quebec supporting the seperatists...

The Grand Council of the Crees (of Quebec), under leadership of Grand Chief Matthew Coon Come, have been the most outspoken aboriginal group. The Crees have asserted for many years that they are a people, with a right to self-determination recognized under international law. They argue that no annexation of them or their territory to an independent Quebec should take place without their consent, and that if Quebec has the right to leave Canada then the Cree people have the right to choose to keep their territory in Canada. Cree arguments generally do not claim the right to secede from Canada; rather, the Crees see themselves as a people bound to Canada by treaty (the JBNQA), and as citizens of Canada. (6)
The Crees have stated that a unilateral declaration of independence by Quebec would be a violation of fundamental principles of human rights, democracy and consent. If secession were to proceed, the Crees argue they would seek protection through the Canadian courts as well as asserting Cree jurisdiction over its people and lands.
In the period leading up to the referendum, the Crees were active at both the domestic and international levels. A Cree Commission held 14 hearings in 10 different communities during August and September 1995. Its report, "The Voice of a Nation on Self-Determination," affirmed Cree opposition to secession without their consent, and restated their commitment to maintain a relationship with the federal government.
In October 1995, the Crees released a study, Sovereign Injustice, which cited a variety of Canadian and international sources to support their case. (7) The book updates a study completed in 1991 and submitted to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights at its forty-eighth session in February 1992. Sovereign Injustice emphasizes that aboriginal peoples have a right to self-determination, including a right to stay in Canada. It argues that the forcible inclusion of the Crees in any future Quebec state would lack validity and legitimacy from the viewpoint of international, Canadian, and aboriginal law and practice. Such an action, the Crees assert, would also seriously detract from Quebec’s claims that it is resorting to fair or democratic process to achieve its goals.
The study also argues that there is no rule under Canadian or international law that would ensure the present boundaries of Quebec would become those of a sovereign Quebec state.
The paper notes that portions of Quebec annexed to the province in 1898 and 1912 constitute in large part the traditional territories of the James Bay Cree and other aboriginal peoples, which were added to the province without their consent. It concludes that the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement provides for permanent federal obligations that could not be unilaterally undertaken by Quebec.
To highlight their opposition to Quebec secession, the Crees held a separate referendum on 24 October 1995. Cree voters were asked: "Do you consent, as a people, that the Government of Quebec separate the James Bay Crees and Cree traditional territory from Canada in the event of a Yes vote in the Quebec referendum?" The Crees voted 96.3% to stay with Canada. Of 6,380 eligible voters, 77% participated in the Cree referendum.
Cree concerns over secession continue in the post-referendum period. In late January 1996, Coon-Come urged the prime minister to make a formal declaration in the House of Commons supporting the Cree decision to remain in Canada if Quebec secedes. The Crees again asserted that the JBNQA is a treaty that binds the federal government to protect Cree interests in the event of a unilateral declaration of independence by Quebec. ( The Crees also appeared during Senate Committee hearings on Bill C-110 (An Act respecting constitutional amendments). They opposed the bill, arguing that reforms should not be made at the expense of the Crees and other aboriginal peoples. (9) In their view, Bill C-110 could constrain the federal government from tabling constitutional initiatives to protect the rights of aboriginal peoples in the context of Quebec secession. The Crees proposed an amendment in the event that the Senate supported the bill, a non-derogation clause to ensure that the Act would not constrain the powers of Parliament to propose or to authorize an amendment to the constitution in order to: a) recognize, affirm or protect the aboriginal peoples and their aboriginal and treaty rights or other rights and freedoms, or b) preserve and protect the national unity and territorial integrity of Canada. The Crees also called for their inclusion in federal unity initiatives.
2. Inuit of Northern Quebec
The Inuit of Northern Quebec also raised significant concerns over the future of their territory. Like the Crees, they assert the right to self-determination, and the choice to remain in the Canadian federation. The Inuit held a separate referendum, on 29 October 1995. Inuit voters were asked the question: "Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign?" With about 75% of eligible voters casting ballots, 96% voted against Quebec’s becoming sovereign. This result was similar to the outcome of the vote carried out by the Inuit parallel to the 1980 Quebec referendum, in which 94% had voted "no."
Inuit continue to argue that they have rights to remain Canadian citizens and keep northern Quebec within Canada, which are supported by section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 and the JBNQA. For reasons similar to the Crees’, the Inuit opposed Bill C-110. They recommended that the proposal be reconsidered, and if not, supported the adoption of an amendment identical to that put forward by the Crees.
3. Other Aboriginal Groups
Leaders of other aboriginal peoples in Quebec have also expressed their opposition to taking aboriginal land out of Canada. In early October 1995, First Nations Chiefs, in a statement entitled "Reaffirmation of Aboriginal Peoples of Quebec and Labrador’s Right to Co-Exist in Peace and Friendship," articulated their resistance to the forcible inclusion of aboriginal people in a new, independent state, arguing that it would be contrary to international law. (10)
Contrary to usual practice, many aboriginal peoples exercised their right to vote, the exception being Mohawks of Kahnasetake, Kahnawake, and Akwesasne. Elsewhere, Indians registered a strong federalist voice. (11) Published referendum results show that more than 95% of aboriginal peoples who participated in the referendum voted "no."
During the final week of the referendum campaign, Quebec chiefs, along with Assembly of First Nations Grand Chief Ovide Mercredi, made it clear that they expect to participate in any discussions on Canada’s future.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/li...bs/bp412-e.htm

That seems pretty clear cut to me and anyone with half a brain cell.

What say you puppet7. Or should we just expect more double speak based on conjecture and falsehhods, manifested in the mess you call your mind?
 
Said1
Free Thinker
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnight View Post

I think socialism works and though a high ideal to reach for is workable. Most western goverments are to some extent socialist, even the US. Communism does not work. Communism has the ability to mass huge numbers of relatively poor peoples to work on infrastructure projects and may supply the basic needs of society, but does not address the "wants" of a society. People want to advance, they want better for their children, they want luxury items. All work and no play makes Jack/Jill a dull person. Socialism addresses the "wants" of society. People want to be looked after when they grow old, they want effective healthcare, they want quality education for their children.

It works until it gets too expensive, which is inevitable as government is prone to mismanagement, among other things. As for the 'wants' of society, get a job.


Quote:

Capitalism does not work. The gap between rich and poor gets wider all the time. Wealth accumulates in the top percentile of the population. Eventually the poor rebel. Maybe not violently but fringe parties arise that capture the imagination of people with grand plans of wealth redistribution and equalization. Nationalism rise it's ugly head as outsiders or the elite are blamed for the woes of society. If the elite remain in power they turn the peoples attention outside their own borders. If the downtrodden come to power they attack the intellectuals and entrepeneurs.

Typical situations found in socialist-dictator regimes you often find in developing and underdeveloping nations, better known as the third world and Nazi Germany. Which, with the exception of Germany, are not exactly good examples of failed capitalism.

Quote:

I feel if Quebec seperated, they would have a civil war with the native population. Northern Quebec where all the resources are is almost all Cree nations people. Quebec is not viable without the north, Ungava Penninsula and the Labrador border region. Natives in Quebec did not have the vote till 1970. I think they will elect to stay with Canada.

If Quebec seperated, they'd be screwed. The Canadian government would not accept soverienty-association and they'd spend the next 15 in negotiations at the WTO and then another 10 worming their way into NAFTA. No more protectionist policies.....NOTHING. I'd like to see how they 'pan' out at the WTO personally, but I don't think that'll ever happen......then there's the bank of Canada......no more influence there.....mmmmmwwwwhhhhahahahahahahahaha.
 
CDNBear
#22
Still waiting for some proof that the Natives of Quebec are the seperatists biggest supporters...

In preparation for a Yes side victory, aboriginal peoples in Quebec strongly affirmed their right to self determination. First Nations Chiefs all articulated that forcing them to join an independent Quebec would violate international law. In the final week of the referendum campaign, they would insist on being full participants in any new constitutional negotiations resulting from the referendum. They would vote overwhelmingly against Quebec independence on the eve of the referendum [3]
The James Bay Cree of Northern Quebec were particularly vocal in their resistance to the idea of being included in an independent Quebec. Grand Chief Mathew Coon-Come issued a legal paper titled Sovereign Injustice that sought to affirm the Cree right to self-determination in keeping their territories in Canada [4] . On 24 October 1995 they organized their own referendum asking the question: "Do you consent, as a people, that the Government of Quebec separate the James Bay Crees and Cree traditional territory from Canada in the event of a Yes vote in the Quebec referendum?" With a 77% participation rate, the 96.3 % of Crees voted to stay in Canada. [5] The Inuit of Nunavik held a similar local vote asking "Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign?", with 96% voting No.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Quebec_referendum
 
CDNBear
#23
And still I wait for logic 7 to post some proof the Natives support the Parti d'uh Quebecois???
 
Toro
#24
I didn't read that whole thing. I just read the last paragraph.

What was most amusing about that paragraph was how it reminded me about the Marxist theoriticians in academia. There are all these little branches of this line of thought and that line of thought, all these permutations of whatever for the working class, and how each and everyone of them claims to be the true vanguard for the working class revolution.

And then they try to apply it to the real world, i.e. through the political process, and nobody gives a sh!t!

Well, they may have 12 supporters across the country, but what really matters is how ideologically pure they are.

Too funny.
 
Toro
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Still waiting for some proof that the Natives of Quebec are the seperatists biggest supporters...

Speaking of funny...



I came to the conclusion a long time ago that logic7 was here to just yank our chains.
 
CDNBear
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro View Post

Speaking of funny...



I came to the conclusion a long time ago that logic7 was here to just yank our chains.

I still don't think illogic is real. I still haven't found anyone other the her and John Muff, that type in broken spoken english, that are truly French,lol. So it would seem I agree in part. But I think illogic is in need of some serious medication.

As for the OP, I skimmed it for the quotes by Parizeau and not the content before, I posted it. Had i read the entire thing, I likely would have moved on to another site, lol.
 
Toro
#27
Quote:

Capitalism does not work.

I missed this.

Of course capitalism works. It is the greatest wealth-creation mechanism the planet has ever seen. It is the great distributor of technology and is the single biggest reason why most of us are alive today.
 
CDNBear
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Toro View Post

I missed this.

Of course capitalism works. It is the greatest wealth-creation mechanism the planet has ever seen. It is the great distributor of technology and is the single biggest reason why most of us are alive today.

Toro, you're scaring me! You're analysing this article way to much, lol. Stop reading it, you might get infected, lol.
 
Numure
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Hey illogic, that is history. Try catching up to the present day Quebec where Native rights are dismissed on a whim by Quebec courts.

I want to see your proof of how the Natives in Quebec voted.

Take your meds, I am Native, raised in Quebec on a reserve, have family still on reservations in Quebec, I KNOW how the Quebecuois treat Natives you ass. You really need help, if you think the Natives are going to follow your dear leaders in to the brave new world of nazi quebec. That would be a death sentance.

Because all Natives have the same opinion, the same culture, the same language and are treated the same by Ottawa and Québec City. Stop thinking your the guru or Natives, you arnt.
 
MikeyDB
#30
Peace on Earth and Good will to all man....

Sure....
 

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