Is referring to Canadian aboriginal people as Indians PC or not?


Cliffy
+2
#1
George Carlin on Indians

"...Now the Indians. I call them Indians because that's what they are. They're Indians. There's nothing wrong with the word Indian."

"First of all, it's important to know that the word Indian does not derive from Columbus mistakenly believing he had reached India. India was not even called by that name in 1492, it was known as Hindustan."

"More likely, the word Indian comes from Columbus's description of the people he found here. He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians, 'Una gente in Dios.' A people in God. In God. In Dios. Indians. It's a perfectly noble and respectable word."

"As far as calling them 'Americans' is concerned, do I even have to point out what an insult this is? -----

We steal their hemisphere, kill twenty or so million of them, destroy five hundred separate cultures, herd the survivors onto the worst land we can find, and now we want to name them after ourselves?

It's appalling. Haven't we done enough damage? Do we have to further degrade them by tagging them with this repulsive name?...."

"You know, you'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to come over to this continent, commit genocide, eliminate the forests, dam up the rivers, build our malls and massage parlors, sell our blenders and whoopee cushions, poison ourselves with chemicals, and let it go at that.

But no. We have to compound the insult."
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
B00Mer
+2
#2
Wagon Burners, Savages, Red Skins!! WTF is with all the PC BS these days..

Last thing I am is PC.

Crap I called myself a cracker, and Walter got pissed at me and gave me a Red..
 
BaalsTears
+1
#3
There have been about four separate migrations of peoples from Asia to North America over the course of thousands of years. After the first migration all subsequent migrations can legitimately be characterized as invasions.
 
CDNBear
+5
#4  Top Rated Post
I've always been partial to Wagon Burner, but FBI works well too.

They have only the power we give them.
 
gerryh
+2
#5
I like BFI
 
WLDB
#6
Does it matter? A lot of people would call me PC, but personally I could care less about what is PC and what isnt. Honestly those who complain about PC going 'too far' annoy me more than the PC police.

Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post


Crap I called myself a cracker, and Walter got pissed at me and gave me a Red..

ha! Walter in the PC club? Who would have thought.
 
B00Mer
+2
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I've always been partial to Wagon Burner, but FBI works well too.

They have only the power we give them.

I drove through Little Big Horn in Montana this week, and took route 212 to South Dakota. I was amazed at how poor the Indians were and the trailer homes with no windows.. it was amazing sad to see.

But what I don't understand why some tribes do so poorly, while others flourish and gain millions..

I always stop at Route 66 Casino in New Mexico (just west of Albuquerque) when I get a chance, own by Indians..

Best dam steak, 1 inch thick, with baked potato sour cream and chives, garlic bread..

 
Twila
+5
#8
I live in Surrey. Indians are from India.
 
WLDB
+3
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

But what I don't understand why some tribes do so poorly, while others flourish and gain millions..

I always stop at Route 66 Casino in New Mexico when I get a chance, own by Indians..

Thats always confused me too. Ive seen reserves in Canada which range from looking like a third world slum to an upscale suburban neighborhood.
 
B00Mer
+4
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Twila View Post

I live in Surrey. Indians are from India.

Say you know what that river is called that separates India from China Twila??

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

The Fraser River.. (drum roll)

Richmond / Surrey
 
petros
+2
#11
Or highway 91.
 
Praxius
+1
#12
I just say Native.... there's Indigenous, Aboriginal, etc. etc.... and here in Australia, some people say you can't call the natives of Australia "Aboriginals" anymore because it's offensive and dated and should be called "Indigenous" and others contradict that and say it should be the other way around.

I just say Native (ie: Native People of the Land you are Standing on) and be done with it.... if people get offended, I tell them to get bent because I ain't tip toeing around. They know what I mean and know I am not someone who tries to offend based on race..... if they do get offended, then I in turn get offended at their offendedness and tell em to fk off.
 
bill barilko
+1
#13
Is George Carlin still dead?
 
Cliffy
#14
Personally, I think First Nations is an insult. First because it has no legal standing in international law and second, they are not the first to have been here. What I find interesting is that nobody has discussed what George said, I have East Indian friends who are insulted when I refer to native Indians. They say they have soul right to that designation but, as George points out, India didn't exist at the time of Columbus.

Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko View Post

Is George Carlin still dead?

George lives on in the hearts and minds of millions.
 
Blackleaf
#15
Karl Pilkington on leprechauns! - YouTube
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

George Carlin on Indians

"...Now the Indians. I call them Indians because that's what they are. They're Indians. There's nothing wrong with the word Indian."

"First of all, it's important to know that the word Indian does not derive from Columbus mistakenly believing he had reached India. India was not even called by that name in 1492, it was known as Hindustan."

"More likely, the word Indian comes from Columbus's description of the people he found here. He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians, 'Una gente in Dios.' A people in God. In God. In Dios. Indians. It's a perfectly noble and respectable word."

"As far as calling them 'Americans' is concerned, do I even have to point out what an insult this is? -----

We steal their hemisphere, kill twenty or so million of them, destroy five hundred separate cultures, herd the survivors onto the worst land we can find, and now we want to name them after ourselves?

It's appalling. Haven't we done enough damage? Do we have to further degrade them by tagging them with this repulsive name?...."

"You know, you'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to come over to this continent, commit genocide, eliminate the forests, dam up the rivers, build our malls and massage parlors, sell our blenders and whoopee cushions, poison ourselves with chemicals, and let it go at that.

But no. We have to compound the insult."

Carlin was funny. He was also sometimes an acute social critic. But he wasn't terribly accurate.

First, Columbus was not seeking India, he was seeking the East Indies. So scrub the whole "India" part.

Second, the phrase "una gente in Dios" appears nowhere in Columbus's writings. It's an urban myth.

Third, it doesn't matter what the word meant in 1492. This is a simplistic and stupid argument. Language changes and develops over time, and the same word can change in meaning. In English, "counterfeiter" once meant "impersonator," in the sense of imitating animal calls. Thomas Jefferson called the plans for the new Capitol "awful." He was complimenting them. "Awful" in the early 1800s meant the same thing as "awesome" means today. "Colored," referring to black people, was the polite term not long ago. I recommend you don't try it these days.

Finally, the argument is assbackward. A selected term doesn't "show respect." Develop some respect, then use whatever term seems appropriate. Most of the time you'll be understood. Or, if you choose to be a contemptuous, racist asswit, no term you use will change that. When I was in service, I learned that any sergeant can make the word "sir" the worst insult in the English language.
 
Twila
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by B00Mer View Post

Say you know what that river is called that separates India from China Twila??

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

The Fraser River.. (drum roll)

Richmond / Surrey

Not too many places in the world where you can eat in Little India and then go to the chinese night market. Surrey/Delta have street signs in sanskrit and Richmond has them in Cantonese.

The lower mainland is like travelling the world. Its amazing, if you like different cultures, foods, odd stores.
 
JLM
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

George Carlin on Indians

"...Now the Indians. I call them Indians because that's what they are. They're Indians. There's nothing wrong with the word Indian."

"First of all, it's important to know that the word Indian does not derive from Columbus mistakenly believing he had reached India. India was not even called by that name in 1492, it was known as Hindustan."

"More likely, the word Indian comes from Columbus's description of the people he found here. He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians, 'Una gente in Dios.' A people in God. In God. In Dios. Indians. It's a perfectly noble and respectable word."

"As far as calling them 'Americans' is concerned, do I even have to point out what an insult this is? -----

We steal their hemisphere, kill twenty or so million of them, destroy five hundred separate cultures, herd the survivors onto the worst land we can find, and now we want to name them after ourselves?

It's appalling. Haven't we done enough damage? Do we have to further degrade them by tagging them with this repulsive name?...."

"You know, you'd think it would be a fairly simple thing to come over to this continent, commit genocide, eliminate the forests, dam up the rivers, build our malls and massage parlors, sell our blenders and whoopee cushions, poison ourselves with chemicals, and let it go at that.

But no. We have to compound the insult."


You got that right, Cliffy, it was P.C. (hate that f**king term) for 500 years, what's changed?
 
DaSleeper
+2
#19
It's not the name that is insulting, It would be the tone of voice and accompanying adjectives
 
taxslave
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

You got that right, Cliffy, it was P.C. (hate that f**king term) for 500 years, what's changed?

White dogooders.
 
Cannuck
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

You got that right, Cliffy, it was P.C. (hate that f**king term) for 500 years, what's changed?

The world around you. Deal with it.

The only issue I have with political correctness is the double standards. The NCAA has issues with the North Dakota Fighting Sioux nickname.....

North Dakota nickname dispute to end | NCAA.com

... But not the Notre Dame Fighting Irish nickname. You gotta wonder why no reporter ever asked the folks at NCAA why the double standard exists.
 
Blackleaf
#22
Quote:

He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish, so in his written accounts he called the Indians, 'Una gente in Dios.' A people in God. In God. In Dios. Indians. It's a perfectly noble and respectable word."

They're actually called Indians because when Columbus landed in the Americas (in the Caribbean) he thought he was in India, as he thought a westwards voyage across the Atlantic would take him straight to Asia.

As for whether it's PC to call Indians "Indians". Does it matter? Being PC is usually the wrong thing to do. Most Indians themselves, especially the older ones, prefer to be called American Indians.
 
JLM
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

White dogooders.


That is the God's truth. Remember Bill Konyk who had the pyrogy restaurant at Granville and Helmcken in Vancouver years ago. He dubbed himself "Hunky Bill" and a bunch of meddling old women got up in arms and wanted the moniker banned, because they thought it was disrespectful.

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf View Post

They're actually called Indians because when Columbus landed in the Americas (in the Caribbean) he thought he was in India, as he thought a westwards voyage across the Atlantic would take him straight to Asia.


For once there Blackie I have to congratulate you. You are actually correct about something Maybe this should be declared a National Holiday in Old Blighty.
 
Blackleaf
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

He was an Italian, and did not speak or write very good Spanish,


He wasn't Italian. He was Genoese, from the Republic of Genoa, which was an independent sovereign state between 1005 and 1797. Italy didn't exist when Columbus was alive. It was only created on 17th March 1861 when the many little city-states which occupied the peninsular, which had existed for centuries and which were often warring with one another, unified to form the Kingdom of Italy. As a sovereign state, Italy is only 153 years' old.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

For once there Blackie I have to congratulate you. You are actually correct about something Maybe this should be declared a National Holiday in Old Blighty.


I'm almost always right.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+2
#25
I don't subscribe to labels and I'm colour blind.
 
Locutus
+2
#26
 
Blackleaf
#27
Pop singer Ellie Goulding has fallen foul of the internet's abundant PC Brigade and been accused of racism.

Now what terrible act of racism did the 27-year-old commit? Her terrible bigotry was, apparently, dressing up in a Red Indian costume.

So shocking and terrible was this act of sheer, raw racism that Cyberspace's resident loony, swivel-eyed Guardianistas immediately bayed for her blood.

She was accused of ‘promoting racism and cultural appropriation’. Donning a Red Indian head-dress was ‘no different from wearing black face’. Another indignant Instagrammer complained that ‘cultures are not costumes’.

One of them even wrote: ‘Next time don’t mock a dying race you insensitive and ignorant excuse of a person.’

As punishment Miss Goulding has now been forced to make a donation to Running Strong, a charity which ‘gives grants to organisations supporting Native American young people.’

Let's hope that's a lesson to her and other would be racists who upset the internet's Left-wingers.


RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: As a singer is accused of 'racism' for wearing a Red Indian fancy dress... Next these idiots will stop children playing Cowboys and Indians

By Richard Littlejohn for the Daily Mail
6 November 2014
Daily Mail


Singer Ellie Goulding, who was criticised for donning a Red Indian headdress as a Halloween costume

Ellie Goulding, who is described as the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s wedding singer, announced yesterday that she is making a donation to Running Strong, a charity which ‘gives grants to organisations supporting Native American young people’.

Why? Miss Goulding hails from Herefordshire. I know we are legally obliged to celebrate diversity at all times, but I wasn’t aware there was a substantial Sioux settlement in the grounds of Hereford’s magnificent cathedral.

This historic county on the Welsh borders is more famous for its splendid beef herds than buffalo. On the basis that charity begins at home, what possessed Miss Goulding to give generously to an organisation devoted to helping Red Indians?

It turns out that, as the Mail reported yesterday, she posted on the internet some pictures of herself wearing a Native American costume for Halloween, which was enough for her to become embroiled in a ‘race row’.

To be honest, I’ve never heard of her. But apparently Miss Goulding has 3.6 million ‘followers’ on something called Instagram. So she must be popular in certain circles. And ‘hundreds’ of them immediately took offence at the photographs, branding her ‘racist’, ‘ignorant’ and ‘insensitive’.

She was accused of ‘promoting racism and cultural appropriation’. Donning a Red Indian head-dress was ‘no different from wearing black face’. Another indignant Instagrammer complained that ‘cultures are not costumes’.

My favourite was the individual who wrote: ‘Next time don’t mock a dying race you insensitive and ignorant excuse of a person.’ Nurse!

Far from being a ‘dying race’, many Native Americans are flourishing across the board, including serving in Congress, running businesses such as casinos and selling cheap cigarettes on their official ‘reservations’. All over the U.S, surviving tobacconists’ shops still use life-sized models of traditional cigar store Indians to advertise their wares.

Of course, there are professional grievance-mongers cashing in on alleged prejudice, sometimes with hilarious consequences and trebles all round for the lawyers.

Only this week, the owner of the mighty Washington Redskins American football team was given permission to sue activists who earlier this year won a case cancelling trademarks protecting the team’s name because it is ‘disparaging to Native Americans’.

This court battle has been running f or eight years. According to the Independent newspaper, one of the leading protagonists is ‘Navajo psychiatric worker Amanda Blackhorse’.

Now there’s a sentence I never though I’d read — or, indeed, write — in a British publication. Mind you, I shouldn’t be surprised if what’s left of the Guardian’s jobs pages isn’t filled with local council recruitment ads for ‘Navajo psychiatric workers’ who are currently under-represented in our Town Halls.

(Incidentally, when did you ever hear of a Red Indian being called Amanda?)

Perhaps Hereford council already employs a Navajo psychiatric worker and she (it’s bound to be a woman) is behind the online lynching of Ellie Goulding.

For her part, Miss Goulding insists she’s not a racist and was only following the example of Sinitta, Harry Styles and Pharrell Williams, whoever they are.

She also says Cher wears a Red Indian outfit. Now then, I have heard of Cher and from what I recall she’s entitled to the full Hiawatha kit on account of being part-Cherokee.


Miss Goulding has now been forced to make a donation to Running Strong, a charity which ‘gives grants to organisations supporting Native American young people’

Cher is a prominent campaigner for assorted minority ‘rights’ in Hollywood. After splitting up with Sonny Bono in the Sixties, she established herself as a solo artist with a succession of hits, including Gypsies, Tramps And Thieves, Half-Breed and Dark Lady.

I doubt if she’d get away with releasing songs with those titles today — certainly not in 21st-century Britain.

Not without attracting the approbation of lawyers acting for the ‘travelling community’, half a dozen homeless charities, and falling foul of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and whatever the old Race Relations Board calls itself this week.

One of the mysteries of the modern age is the ability of so many people to take instant offence on behalf of others and seek out insult where none exists.

In the case of Ellie Goulding, the Tory MP Philip Davies summed it up thus: ‘As far as I’m concerned, all of these people who are complaining are idiots.’

He dismisses them as ‘Guardian-reading, sandal-wearing, politically correct do-gooders’.

It’s hardly an original thought and not strictly accurate. Virtually no one outside the BBC reads the Guardian any more. I read it, so that you don’t have to.


Miss Goulding, 27, was following the example of dozens of stars, including singer Sinitta (pictured), who have been pictured wearing Native American headdresses in recent months

Davies is right, however, about those whose cause is being championed never taking any offence themselves.

For instance, I have yet to meet any black person who is remotely offended by the Britannia Coconutters, a troupe of Morris Dancers in Bacup, Lancashire who have been monstered by the Left for wearing traditional black face (which is a reference to the area's coalmining heritage).

Nor have I come across a single British Muslim who wants to ban Christmas. Yet the Guardianistas who run local government ban Christmas cards and Easter bunnies and invent ‘inclusive’ festivals such as Birmingham’s ridiculous Winterval.

While there is undeniably a political dimension to this censorious vendetta, aimed at trashing traditional values, that doesn’t explain the daily, hair-trigger outpourings of bile on forums such as Twitter.

Clearly, some of those who post abuse and death threats on the internet are in the advanced stages of mental illness and should be sectioned for their own protection.

How else do you explain someone, somewhere in Middle England, sitting in front of a computer working themselves into a lather of indignation over a perceived slight to Red Indians?


Bacup, Lancashire's Morris dancing troupe, Britannia Coconutters


Cher who is thought to be entitled to wear the full Hiawatha kit on account of being part-Cherokee

The reason most of these imbeciles do it is because they can. The internet has given them an empty vessel in which to vent their own pathetic frustrations.

The problem is that victim culture has embedded itself deep into our body politic and wider society. I’m always mystified as to where all this anger comes from. Most of it is simply bullying by any other name, with websites affording these cowardly parasites the luxury of anonymity.

Whenever anyone sneezes, the Twitterati go into apoplectic convulsions, accusing all and sundry of racism, sexism, you name an -ism, they’ve got it.

But I have to admit, the plight of Native Americans hasn’t loomed large on the British political landscape until now. What brought that on, other than a desire to intimidate and frighten a blameless young pop singer?

I don’t suppose the Apache community were especially upset at Miss Goulding. Like me, they’ve probably never heard of her.

What would her tormentors have made of the black singer Felipe Rose, who used to dress up as a Red Indian in the gay torch band the Village People, who had a hit with Y.M.C.A. in the late-Seventies?

Who was he offending — blacks, homosexuals or Red Indians? All three? Or none of the above? Have they ever seen the brilliant TV series Treme, shown here on Sky Atlantic, which features a group of black men in New Orleans, led by the wonderful Clark Peters, who dress up in Native American costumes for Mardi Gras?

I’m old enough to remember How!, an ITV educational children’s show presented by Fred Dinenage, which greeted viewers with a Red Indian salute.

I can also recall former football referee-turned Labour Minister Denis Howell importing a Red Indian medicine man to perform a rain dance during the great drought of 1976.

Then there was Running Bear, the pop hit about an Indian brave sung by Johnny Preston and written by the Big Bopper, who died in the same plane crash as Buddy Holly.

The Twitterati would be incandescent if that came out today, particularly the line: ‘Running Bear loved Little White Dove . . .’ You can bet your life the BBC would leave it in a cupboard to gather dust alongside Rolf Harris’s Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport.

Back to Ellie Goulding, which is where we came in. Why is a Native American costume any more offensive than dressing up as a Beefeater or a Spice Girl for Halloween?

The only thing she’s done wrong is to try to appease these morons by donating money to the Running Strong charity, which is tantamount to an admission of guilt.

And that’s not the end of it. The madness is spreading. The organisers of the BBC/Guardianista love-in which used to be the Glastonbury Pop Festival have just announced they are banning Red Indian costumes.

They’ll be stopping children playing Cowboys and Indians next. Which will only help to prove that the whole world has gone completely Tonto.





Read more: Ellie Goulding is accused of 'racism' for wearing a Red Indian fancy dress | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Last edited by Blackleaf; Nov 6th, 2014 at 08:08 AM..
 
B00Mer
#28




Well if the RedSkins are so insulted about being treated differently, from us white folk... then I say treat them equally..

Start by taking away their reserves, tax free status and welfare checks and tell them to get a job and assimilate mother fukkers.
 
EagleSmack
#29
I get so offended when I hear Native Americans on TV and in movies say things like...


"The white man says..."


"Then the white man comes..."


I get so mad.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

I get so offended when I hear Native Americans on TV and in movies say things like...


"The white man says..."


"Then the white man comes..."


I get so mad.

Does seem to be your dominant mode.