7 Ways to Save the World (Seven Ways To Save The World)


AnnaG
#331
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

I am sad to see that you are reading things into my posts that are not there. I did not say that there would not be problems. However, I see few problems that cannot be overcome given the will to do so.

We haven't done that, aren't about to do that any time soon, so as I said, what we have is unsustainable.
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What your arguments remind me of is the 18th century doomsayers who prophesized the end of civilization because Europe was cutting down the key resource needed for industry faster than it could be replaced. The resource in question was wood, and shortly after their predictions it was discovered that coal could replace wood as the key industrial material. It was this development along with developments in science and agricultural that has allowed the world to reach its current population. There will be further developments in the twenty-first century that will allow the Earth to handle its increased population with ease. As a matter of fact many of these discoveries have already been made.

I don't really care what my point says to you. The fact is that however many "ifs" you bring up, we are not feeding all the people we have, fresh water is dwindling, we are still crapping in our own nest, etc. If you want to call that sustainable, you go ahead, but I won't. Another simple fact of the matter is, the more people there are, the less other stuff there is. We occupy more space, that's less space for other species. We grow more people, we need more water.

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Demographers, by the way, do not suggest that any space be found for the coming three billion as the space is already there. I suggest you take a look at some of the most densely populated nations such as the Netherlands or Britain and decide whether or not these countries consider themselves overcrowded. A country is only overpopulated if it cannot support the population it has. I will probably not live long enough to see this, but I expect that the Earth will pass the nine billion mark without serious incident.

Can any country existing feed itself completely under its own resources? No. Can Japan motor its way around without other people's oil? No.

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Essentially you seem to have adopted a position of the world is doomed no matter what happens.

Wrong.
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I would like to see some support for this argument other than the simple assertion that is is so.

And I'd like to see some support that we can continue growing our population without detrimentally affecting the other species on the planet.

Here is one example of why I assert that we should be concerned.

The World's Water

Human Appropriation of the World's Fresh Water Supply

Fresh Water Resources Around the World - Earth Web Site

When can I expect to go live on the moon? Mars?
 
countryboy
#332
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

We haven't done that, aren't about to do that any time soon, so as I said, what we have is unsustainable. I don't really care what my point says to you. The fact is that however many "ifs" you bring up, we are not feeding all the people we have, fresh water is dwindling, we are still crapping in our own nest, etc. If you want to call that sustainable, you go ahead, but I won't. Another simple fact of the matter is, the more people there are, the less other stuff there is. We occupy more space, that's less space for other species. We grow more people, we need more water.

Can any country existing feed itself completely under its own resources? No. Can Japan motor its way around without other people's oil? No.

Wrong. And I'd like to see some support that we can continue growing our population without detrimentally affecting the other species on the planet.

Here is one example of why I assert that we should be concerned.

The World's Water

Human Appropriation of the World's Fresh Water Supply

Fresh Water Resources Around the World - Earth Web Site

When can I expect to go live on the moon? Mars?

I think it goes beyond just total numbers only. The fact is, as certain highly-populated countries "progress" toward our model (?) of a consumer society, the rate at which the world eats up resources increases. We've been facing some pollution problems in Canada but that is, and will be, nothing compared to what's going to be coming at "us" from China, India, and some other countries.

Just take a simple flush toilet as an example...if you add a few billion people to the list of us who blow away x litres of water every time we flush, imagine how quickly the fresh water will be used up. Of course, some of it is quite recoverable but it takes some thinking (and doing) to get to that point.

Some very innovate, creative, and focused thinking will be required on both pollution and management of resources or we will indeed be in some very deep trouble.
 
Bar Sinister
#333
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

We haven't done that, aren't about to do that any time soon, so as I said, what we have is unsustainable. I don't really care what my point says to you. The fact is that however many "ifs" you bring up, we are not feeding all the people we have, fresh water is dwindling, we are still crapping in our own nest, etc. If you want to call that sustainable, you go ahead, but I won't. Another simple fact of the matter is, the more people there are, the less other stuff there is. We occupy more space, that's less space for other species. We grow more people, we need more water.

Can any country existing feed itself completely under its own resources? No. Can Japan motor its way around without other people's oil? No.

Wrong. And I'd like to see some support that we can continue growing our population without detrimentally affecting the other species on the planet.

Here is one example of why I assert that we should be concerned.

The World's Water

Human Appropriation of the World's Fresh Water Supply

Fresh Water Resources Around the World - Earth Web Site

When can I expect to go live on the moon? Mars?

Actually I think you and I are on the same page. Quite obviously it would be in the interests of humanity to manage its resources more efficiently. I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate simply because so many doom and gloomers have been wrong before. I expect that one day you will be right but only if humanity is too stupid to do anything about using resources more efficiently. I happen to be optimistic enough to think that this will happen eventually.

To answer a couple of your questions - yes several nations are net food exporters. They would have to exist or the world would already be starving. The list includes Canada which produces considerably more food than it consumes. The fact that Canadians choose to import many foods that won't grow here like oranges does not mean that it cannot feed itself.

The ability not to harm other species is more difficult as the more people there are obviously the more space they take up. However, nations like Britain, France, Germany, Spain and even Japan still have large areas of wilderness where native flora and fauna flourish. This is due party to a deliberate decision on the part of these nations to preserve natural areas and also the fact that these nations are highly urbanized. Most people are squeezed into cities which take up relatively little space. The same urbanizing trend is now occurring in nations like China and India making it possible for these nations to preserve natural areas as well provided they choose to do so. Currently Africa is the continent least able to do this as much of its population is still rural, however, even Africa is rapidly urbanizing.

You are quite right to point out that water is a problem. However, water does have one thing going for it. It is a resource that can be continually cleaned and reused. It is simply a matter of practicing better water conservation. Currently the biggest users of water in North America are the large agricultural establishments which tend to use water rather inefficiently. Using appropriate water conservation techniques as practiced in countries like Israel would solve much of these problems.

Living on other planets I suspect is rather far fetched and you are right to suggest that we solve our problems here rather than depend on some far-fetched and unproven technology to get us to other planets, most of which are uninhabitable in any case.
 
AnnaG
#334
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Actually I think you and I are on the same page.

I doubt it. I seem to be a bit more sensitive to the planet. I don't think we can add more people without doing more harm to the planet and you said a while ago, basically, we should use it all up and move on. We can agree on a few things, I have no doubt, but definitely not in attitudes towards our crib.
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Quite obviously it would be in the interests of humanity to manage its resources more efficiently.

Without screwing up any more of the planet, I agree.
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I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate simply because so many doom and gloomers have been wrong before.

Is that what I am? You don't think I am being realistic in my attention to how we treat our planet?
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I expect that one day you will be right but only if humanity is too stupid to do anything about using resources more efficiently. I happen to be optimistic enough to think that this will happen eventually.

One day I might be right? lmao I think it's blatantly obvious we can't sustain the present population, let alone a bigger one. Fresh water is becoming scarcer. People around the world are starving. We are still polluting as if it doesn't matter.

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To answer a couple of your questions - yes several nations are net food exporters. They would have to exist or the world would already be starving. The list includes Canada which produces considerably more food than it consumes. The fact that Canadians choose to import many foods that won't grow here like oranges does not mean that it cannot feed itself.

My questions were rhetorical. There are countries that CAN'T feed themselves and have little to contribute to the rest of the world.

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The ability not to harm other species is more difficult as the more people there are obviously the more space they take up. However, nations like Britain, France, Germany, Spain and even Japan still have large areas of wilderness where native flora and fauna flourish.This is due party to a deliberate decision on the part of these nations to preserve natural areas

Exactly. And what species are left are a small fraction of what used to be.
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and also the fact that these nations are highly urbanized. Most people are squeezed into cities which take up relatively little space. The same urbanizing trend is now occurring in nations like China and India making it possible for these nations to preserve natural areas as well provided they choose to do so. Currently Africa is the continent least able to do this as much of its population is still rural, however, even Africa is rapidly urbanizing.

Yeah. So people prosper as we continually degrade the planet. So? Eventually we will have to smarten up or adjust to the idea that we will eventually disappear. Earth's resources are limited. Using them up more efficiently is still using them up and it's a simple fact that the more people there are, the less other stuff there is. Earth's mass is pretty much a constant.

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You are quite right to point out that water is a problem. However, water does have one thing going for it. It is a resource that can be continually cleaned and reused. It is simply a matter of practicing better water conservation. Currently the biggest users of water in North America are the large agricultural establishments which tend to use water rather inefficiently. Using appropriate water conservation techniques as practiced in countries like Israel would solve much of these problems.

No shyte, Sherlock.

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Living on other planets I suspect is rather far fetched and you are right to suggest that we solve our problems here rather than depend on some far-fetched and unproven technology to get us to other planets, most of which are uninhabitable in any case.

Ya think? lol
 
Bar Sinister
#335
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. I refuse to concede that the world's current population is unsustainable. I maintain that as the world's population grows toward nine billion, not only will the Earth sustain this number but also that the overall living standard will actually increase - just as it has done for the last three decades. Time will tell which of us is correct. If you are right then humanity is going to experience a massive die-off; if I am right then nothing will happen other than a general and continual increase in the world's living standard.

BTW - I doubt very much that you are more concerned about the environment than I am. And please do not put words in my mouth. I did not at any time say that we should use up the Earth's resources and then move on. In fact I said quite the opposite. It seems to me you are interpreting my posts in a way favourable to your point of view rather than noting what I actually say.
 
YukonJack
#336
Human beings have this interesting ability to overcome hardships, as long as they are not shackled by liberal/communist (pardon the redundancy) idealogy.

As long as the producers are allowed to produce, they will produce enough to support evetone, including the freeloaders.
 
YukonJack
#337
I could name seven posters here, whose absence would DEFINITELY contribute to improving and/or saving the world.
 
gerryh
#338
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

I could name seven posters here, whose absence would DEFINITELY contribute to improving and/or saving the world.


well then, why keep us waiting.......show your list..... enlighten us with your wisdom.
 
YukonJack
#339
gerryh, you would only have to be curious about six.
 
Avro
#340
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

Human beings have this interesting ability to overcome hardships, as long as they are not shackled by liberal/communist (pardon the redundancy) idealogy.

As long as the producers are allowed to produce, they will produce enough to support evetone, including the freeloaders.

What's an evetone?
 
YukonJack
#341
"What's an evetone?"

Sorry, I should have done what I do, usually: read my post, before I click on the "post quick reply".

I meant "EVERYONE".
 
Bar Sinister
#342
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

Human beings have this interesting ability to overcome hardships, as long as they are not shackled by liberal/communist (pardon the redundancy) idealogy.

As long as the producers are allowed to produce, they will produce enough to support evetone, including the freeloaders.


You forgot to include conservative/fascist in your comment. Sorry about the redundancy.
 
gerryh
#343
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

gerryh, you would only have to be curious about six.


so... you wish me and 6 others dead do you.
 
AnnaG
#344
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. I refuse to concede that the world's current population is unsustainable. I maintain that as the world's population grows toward nine billion, not only will the Earth sustain this number but also that the overall living standard will actually increase - just as it has done for the last three decades. Time will tell which of us is correct. If you are right then humanity is going to experience a massive die-off; if I am right then nothing will happen other than a general and continual increase in the world's living standard.

If we continue to degrade the planet (kill off other species, pollute it, use up finite resources, etc.) quality of life will suffer and then life itself will suffer even more than it is now. You seem to be only concerned about human life. That's your prerogative, but humans are not the only species on the planet that matter.
Then there is info such as this:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...evelopment.pdf

Quote:

BTW - I doubt very much that you are more concerned about the environment than I am. And please do not put words in my mouth. I did not at any time say that we should use up the Earth's resources and then move on. In fact I said quite the opposite. It seems to me you are interpreting my posts in a way favourable to your point of view rather than noting what I actually say.

I must apologize. I have mistaken you for another poster. Posters confuse each other occasionally. Sorry.
Last edited by AnnaG; Feb 1st, 2010 at 07:48 PM..
 
Bar Sinister
#345
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

If we continue to degrade the planet (kill off other species, pollute it, use up finite resources, etc.) quality of life will suffer and then life itself will suffer even more than it is now. You seem to be only concerned about human life. That's your prerogative, but humans are not the only species on the planet that matter.
Then there is info such as this:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...evelopment.pdf

I must apologize. I have mistaken you for another poster. Posters confuse each other occasionally. Sorry.

You are still putting words in my mouth, Anna. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that I care only for human life.
 
AnnaG
#346
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

You are still putting words in my mouth, Anna. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that I care only for human life.

Wrong. I said it seemed like that is all you are concerned about. I did not say you said that. Read it again.

Anyway, perhaps some people just don't seem to clue in to how intricate balances of life are and the depletion of one species can affect hundreds of others. I also think that there are some that just don't give a hoot.
 
Cliffy
#347
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Wrong. I said it seemed like that is all you are concerned about. I did not say you said that. Read it again.

Anyway, perhaps some people just don't seem to clue in to how intricate balances of life are and the depletion of one species can affect hundreds of others. I also think that there are some that just don't give a hoot.

But Anna, we were created in the image of god. We are special, don't you know. We are above all those lesser critters that we were given dominion over, so it is our duty to put them in their proper place - under our foot. We are so special that god is going to save our sorry asses when the world goes in the toilet because we have been so stupid.
 
SMTIAM
#348
Hello, I am a marketing management student and need a survey filled out by many people for my research class. It is on lighting solutions in Canada. It is 100% confidential and anonymous. Also it only takes about 5 minutes to complete and would be a great favour to helping me achieve a good mark.

The link is: Lighting Solutions Consumer Survey

I know this is a Canadian site, but in case, only Canadians please.
Have a great day and thank you in advance.

Sharon
 
vickywebworld
#349
I am more concerned about the depletion of ozone layer by G Gases
 

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