Shame on you NDP.


Graeme
#1
A quick letter I wrote to the NDP and their current MPs:

What in the world are you guys thinking. To pull out of Afghanistan now must be the most cowardice, short sighted policy possible. Why would you leave a whole nation to fend for itself when it isn't even close to ready? You would prefer the Afghan people be lead by the Taliban, harbour more terrorists, and die worthlessly for another what, 50, 100, 200 years? It is disgusting to think any Canadian who should understand what it means to fight for freedom could think of such a thing. Never mind a whole political party. With your shotty short sighted economic policies, and now this, you have effectively turned me 100% against the NDP for life, and I know 100's of others that feel the same way.

Shame on you, you simply don't speak for Canada or Canadians.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#2
Did you see the Globe and Mail political cartoon after the NDP convention......it showed Jack Layton as Peter Pan, leading Wendy et. al. on a fairy-dust flight through outer space, past the orbit of Pluto......

Says it all.
 
Graeme
#3
hahahahaha I didn't
 
BitWhys
#4
Quote:

The resolution called on Harper to begin "the safe and immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan" and "support the continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan and democratic peace building."

http://www.ndp.ca/page/4200
 
Finder
#5
Well being a member of the NDP, and though I support a UN peace keeping mission in Afghanistan, I do not believe it is the job of the UN or Canada to pick up the pieces of the USA's war of aggression against other nations. Canada's current mission in Afghanistan is not a clear one and is not a mission where we are doing peace keeping but putting forth the USA policy and agenda's.

Many would shame the Liberals and conservatives for sending us and keeping us in Afghanistan. I do not but I can see that either opinion on the subject is valid. Personally I can see the benifit of having the Canadian ground troops in Afghanistan. Currently I do not support there mission but would rather have it as a United Nations peace keeping mission with slightly different opjectives then attacking local millitias, Taliban insurgents and so on and harrassing the local population. Canada's taking part in the circle of violance and hatred and is only painting a big target on our backs for the new terrorists WE are now making in Afghanistan with our current mission.

Again I'm for a mission in Afghanistan, but one which is directed, supported and uses UN troops.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote:

The resolution called on Harper to begin "the safe and immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan" and "support the continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan and democratic peace building."

http://www.ndp.ca/page/4200

The problem is there can be no" continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan" without troops to defend it, and "democratic peace building" is a little difficult with lunatic religious fanatics that hang people for dressing improperly.

Fairy dust.

Although thanks for the link to the resolution. It clears up a lot that has been unclear.
 
Finder
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

Quote:

The resolution called on Harper to begin "the safe and immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan" and "support the continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan and democratic peace building."

http://www.ndp.ca/page/4200

The problem is there can be no" continuation of development assistance to Afghanistan" without troops to defend it, and "democratic peace building" is a little difficult with lunatic religious fanatics that hang people for dressing improperly.

Fairy dust.

Although thanks for the link to the resolution. It clears up a lot that has been unclear.


The big problem is the warlords, drug lords, and yes the Taliban and other militia's which just don't like the USA. Another problem is these are many of the same people the USA once supported and they have enough power to destabilize the country and some of which "work" with the americans. The national government doesn't have much power outside the city limits of Kabul, and from what I hear these days doesn't have much sway in parts of the city at that.

This is really a job (if it can be done at all) for a united nations mission and not one of NATO. NATO is a political organization and alliance with goals of it's own and interests of it's own. With the united nations you do have a slight political leaning with the security council but in general is more legit then using NATO, which is seen by most of the world as the USA imperialistic arm.
 
BitWhys
#8
so I don't maybe have to repeat some things

Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

I'm waiting on my riding office to track down a copy of the resolution on Afghanistan as it passed so I won't know for sure until then, but its Jack's idea that Canada should also begin working immediately with the NATO nations who won't send troops into the south (which is the vast majority of them) to see what they find wrong about the mission and work out a strategy with a potential to actually work and return ASAP.

The intention of the resolution, afaik, is NOT to abandon Afghanistan but rather to give the mission the direction it needs to be successful.

bear in mind also the the withdrawal would be coordinated so the 6,000 troops that hold the fort while we prove we're serious won't over overextend themselves while we're AWOL.
 
BitWhys
#9
UN or NATO, doesn't matter to me. Either way the military should be SUPPORTING the real mission, not spearheading it. The longer it takes to get our act together the more difficult it will be to get right.
 
Finder
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

so I don't maybe have to repeat some things

Quote: Originally Posted by BitWhys

I'm waiting on my riding office to track down a copy of the resolution on Afghanistan as it passed so I won't know for sure until then, but its Jack's idea that Canada should also begin working immediately with the NATO nations who won't send troops into the south (which is the vast majority of them) to see what they find wrong about the mission and work out a strategy with a potential to actually work and return ASAP.

The intention of the resolution, afaik, is NOT to abandon Afghanistan but rather to give the mission the direction it needs to be successful.

bear in mind also the the withdrawal would be coordinated so the 6,000 troops that hold the fort while we prove we're serious won't over overextend themselves while we're AWOL.


If the American war on terrorism uses over 100k troops to hold a nation with no connection to 9/11 at all, why can't they use there own troops to hold the nation with the closest links to 9/11 and terrorist orginizations. The Americans I'd argue are not that interested in defeating the Taliban but are more interested in changing policy
 
athabaska
#11
The NDP had a very bizarre convention. They accentuated their chronic inability to connect with a good chunk of Canadians. Elitist 'we know best' and disdain for Joe and Mary Average. After 18 Federal elections they have zero chance of a seat in Quebec or Alberta...then again, according to the Dippers, that would be the 'fault' of those Canadians and not NDP policy.
 
wallyj
#12
Once again Iraq was about saddam's refusal to allow in inspectors. Afghanistan is a nato mission,not a U,S,A. mission.Why does almost every time anyone mention Afghanistan the anti-U.S. crap starts up? Does anyone on the left ever think?
 
Finder
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by athabaska

The NDP had a very bizarre convention. They accentuated their chronic inability to connect with a good chunk of Canadians. Elitist 'we know best' and disdain for Joe and Mary Average. After 18 Federal elections they have zero chance of a seat in Quebec or Alberta...then again, according to the Dippers, that would be the 'fault' of those Canadians and not NDP policy.


Just so you know in the provincial government the NDP have four seats in Alberta, and that the Bloq is a social democratic organization which has many of the same social policies as the NDP.

Also what you see as not connecting with the majority of Canadians is diversity. This is not a problem. Actually if there was a little more space between the three main parties I would be a little happier. During the election you see the Liberals, Conservatives and even the NDP trying to be the same as the others. Actually the only party which steps away from the Conservative and Liberal views at times is the Democrats. I don't want three carbon copy choices during the election. I want three or more REAL choices. Just because the NDP isn't right wing enough for you doesn't mean it's not perfect or alright for me or the next person. Just because you tend to think one way doesn't mean everyone else has to.


So I hope the Democrats, keep being something other then Conservative or Liberal.
 
Finder
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

Once again Iraq was about saddam's refusal to allow in inspectors. Afghanistan is a nato mission,not a U,S,A. mission.Why does almost every time anyone mention Afghanistan the anti-U.S. crap starts up? Does anyone on the left ever think?


ummmm, for more then 6 months the USA was saying that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, they even went up infront of the UN general assembly with the false evidence. You just can't bomb and invade a nation which doesn't allow weapons inspectors in. If that is so the USA is rip for a couple of bombings themselves for all there secrect military programs.

Not only that but the Bush has tied the fight in Iraq with the war on terrorism. While the war on terroism has more to do with the Taliban and Osama, there is only a fraction of the troops dealing with Afghanistan.

Quote:

Afghanistan is a nato mission,not a U,S,A. mission

If you listend to what I said I said NATO is half the problem, being a political/military alliance with political goals. NATO is not the United nations but serves the interests of the USA and it's allies. Many see NATO as a imperalist arm of the USA and having NATO in Afghanistan and Iraq are making things worse for the USA and the so called "war on terror".
 
wallyj
#15
Mr. Layton has did it again. Today he said our troops should be pulled out of Afghanistan and put to work chasing illegal fishing boats.The man is becoming unglued. I think he should sit down and have a chat with Pam Barrett and discuss his future.
 
Zzarchov
#16
Couple of things here.

1.) NDP was for the deployment to afghanistan at the time, one of the reasons they got my vote. Their Republican Style revisionism of what they have said and done rather than owning up to their past decisions when its no longer playing well to their target audience sickens me.

2.) If we leave afghanistan, the Taliban will not "return to power" as they were never in power in much of Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance remember..those people who allied with in their civil war?

3.) Our purpose in Afghanistan has been clear since day 1. WE NEVER WENT IN AS PEACEKEEPERS! read the papers from day 1, we are there in WAR, those who serve are thus veterans.

4.) We HAD to go to war with the Taliban under NATO obligations.

No If's, and's or buts. PERIOD.

You can't just belong to a defensive alliance for 60 years then when called upon to live up to it duck out. You may as well just rip up every agreement we ever negotiated since no one will live up to their end with us (ANY country, we'd have proven we are untrustworthy)
 
BitWhys
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Zzarchov

1.) NDP was for the deployment to afghanistan at the time, one of the reasons they got my vote. Their Republican Style revisionism of what they have said and done rather than owning up to their past decisions when its no longer playing well to their target audience sickens me.

at what time? when we deployed to the North immediately after the invasion? of course they did. that was rightous.

its the redeployment to the South they have resisted from the get-go.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#18
Just saw Jack talking about how it is necessary to "crack down on these illegal guns coming across the border"

Idiot.

First of all, there is NO indication yet whether the firearm used in Montreal was illegal or not.

Second of all, if it is in the country and illegal, by definition the government doesn't know about it, so how can you crack down?

Penalties are already harsh, and practically every legitimate gun owner I know has a gun or two that is NOT registered. Good luck with that, Jack.

Thirdly, how does Jack know it was smuggled in from the USA" That is actually doubtful.

I remember hearing Jack when he first became leader promising that, if elected, he would solve Canada's "gun problem" by sending a delegation to the US Congress to encourage them to pass strict gun control legislation.

He's obviously never heard of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

Why doesn't that surprize me?
 
jerry
#19
The reasons Jack Layton gave for the Canadian troops to leave Afghanistan don't make any sense.

Canadian troops should leave Afghanistan because clearly, those people enjoy living in the Middle Ages. The Brits, the Russian could'nt teach any good sense to those people, why would we be more successful? You can't help people who don't want to help themselves.
 
wallyj
#20
Finder,obviously you can invade a country that doesn't let inspectors in to do thier job.Saddam agreed to this to stop the first gulf war. It is called a treaty.You break the treaty you accept the consequences. Saddam caused the crisis in Iraq,just like the Hezbolla did in Lebanon.They could have returned the Israeli soldiers but they chose not to and thier people suffered for that decision.Of course it is much more fashionable to blame the U.S.
 
gc
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Just saw Jack talking about how it is necessary to "crack down on these illegal guns coming across the border"

Idiot.

First of all, there is NO indication yet whether the firearm used in Montreal was illegal or not.

Second of all, if it is in the country and illegal, by definition the government doesn't know about it, so how can you crack down?

Penalties are already harsh, and practically every legitimate gun owner I know has a gun or two that is NOT registered. Good luck with that, Jack.

Thirdly, how does Jack know it was smuggled in from the USA" That is actually doubtful.

I remember hearing Jack when he first became leader promising that, if elected, he would solve Canada's "gun problem" by sending a delegation to the US Congress to encourage them to pass strict gun control legislation.

He's obviously never heard of the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

Why doesn't that surprize me?

Jack is an idiot, yes. But he's an idiot for wanting to withdraw from afghanistan, not for wanting to crack down on guns.

1. Whether the gun in this particular instance was smuggled from the USA or not, it doesn't change the fact that crimes are committed with illegal guns smuggled from the USA

2. I think what Jack meant is crack down on smuggling, stop them from getting across the border. I'm not sure how that would be done, maybe more security/searches at the border.
 
BitWhys
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by wallyj

Mr. Layton has did it again. Today he said our troops should be pulled out of Afghanistan and put to work chasing illegal fishing boats.The man is becoming unglued. I think he should sit down and have a chat with Pam Barrett and discuss his future.

what's the problem with that?

It worked for Iceland.
 
BitWhys
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

First of all, there is NO indication yet whether the firearm used in Montreal was illegal or not.

gee

what are the chances that guy's Beretta had only five rounds in the clip?
 
EastSideScotian
#24
The gun used was apperantly an Automatic rifle of sorts....they are illegal in Canada Regardless, if that was infact the type of gun used, the media is keeping all details very confusseing since I last checked.

As for Layton, he is just jumping a bandwagon, to get a vote, he complains about their being no reason for the troops to be in Afganistain, but yet he cant really give a good reason on why leaving Afganistain is a good idea ethier..

I nearly Pissed my pants trying to picture our Army sitting in boats, and frigetes waiting for European trollers to come strolling along. Layton doesnt know whats going on then, Maybe its because he isnt from a Coast of Canada, Right now on the east, thats barely an issue between the Coastguard, Navy and RCMP we have cracked down very well over the past decade on illegal fishing. Another hilliarous reason is the army isnt the Navy, and the reason the Soldiers are in the army is because they chose not to be in the Navy....Someone Please tell me what the hell the point of Putting the soldiers on Naval ships is going to do right now? thats the worst Idea I ever Heard.
 
BitWhys
#25
there are many who will tell you things have been glossed over very well since the Turbot War and that's about it. many of THEM will tell you the situation is getting worse.

the Liberals would claim its under control. that should be a warning flag right there.
 
EastSideScotian
#26
Dude, 3 of my uncles own off shore/ deep sea fishing boats/trollers, and I have worked on 2 of them for a few summers in the last 5 years, beleave me their is no threat. Iam from the coast and a fishing Village at that, its one thing i have some first hand knowlage at.
 
BitWhys
#27
I'll wait to hear from a less motivated source, thanks.
 
EastSideScotian
#28
A less motivated source, would get their info from people with first hand knowlage. Id also like to know what you consider a less Motivated Source, one that agrees with your misconception?
 
BitWhys
#29
one who by definition doesn't have it in for Jack.
 
Zzarchov
#30
I think what he's saying is this is the internet. You may or may not be a fisherman and may just be trying to make a point, in the same way I may or not be a "Space Cowboy" for my job. (hint, leaning towards may not)
 

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