Green Party ?

Karlin
#1
From what I heard, the leader Jim Harris of the Greens is an ex-corporate hump, and an ex-Conservative Party member.

he is said to be "not much of a policy guy", but is good at organising people.

Some of the Green's most important members have quit the party, citing differences with the new leader, and other issues.

Greens got over 4% of the vote last election. It caused some vote-splitting:
There were actually ridings where they "cost the NDP a seat" , if we add the votes for Greens onto the NDP, which is valid because those types of voters tend to like "the NDP or Greens".

Personally, I might have voted for Greens because they are more environmental, but I have to cling to the reality of the NDP getting as many seats as possible, which is at least a realistic opportunity to make some change away from the Libs and CPP.

Jim Harris doesn't make a good impression - interviewed on CBC, he said "I can't tell you our stance on that issue at this time, because our platform will be revealed in stages during the election campaign"
Really, that sounds so silly - you got the camera on you Jim, say what the policy is!!! Besides, the logic sounded like "I can't give you bits of it because its coming out in bits".
 
Reverend Blair
#2
If your concerned about the environment, the NDP has a much stronger platform. That shows in the endorsements from environmental groups too.

Harris is a Mulroneyite. His takeover of the Green Party is even reminiscent of the way Mulroney pushed Clark aside. His biggest failing on the environmental front is following that old corporate policy of all targets being voluntary, but the rest of his environmental platfor is weak too.

The Greens under Harris are much closer to the old PC party or the present day Liberals than they are to the NDP or what the Green Party used to be.

If you're centre-right and looking for a place to park your vote, the Greens are for you. If you're concerned about the environment or left leaning, they aren't.
 
Calberty
#3
I've looked at all the party platforms and their track records and priorities. I'll be voting Green this coming election.
 
Karlin
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Calberty

I've looked at all the party platforms and their track records and priorities. I'll be voting Green this coming election.

Please, continue... What is it you find attractive about Greens?

And what "track record" of the NDP are you refering to? The work they did this last seesion of Parliament - what do you object to there??
Rev and I both claim environmental issues are better handled by the NDP, so we need to know where we are wrong on that [our egos are less than our concern for the environment].

Thanks Calberty, I hope you don't feel 'attacked' here. We just want to get it right.

Personally, I "would" be voting for Greens too, on the basis that their underlying platform is Green, as in #1 importance is the environment. But I won't, because they are not saying that anymore...
I am going NDP for their environmental platform.

But, some of are concerned they are not very "green" at all :
-Soft on corporate responsibility for environmental problems
- lack of initiatives for environmental protection and remediation
- no budget proposals to clean up toxic sites
- that Kyoto can be voluntary [so, just do it, but none have].

Calberty, is it the fact that Jim Harris is considered to be a "good people manager"? We are interested.
BTW, is your name taken from "'Calgary Alberta" ? Clever!!
 
MMMike
#5
Quote:

From what I heard, the leader Jim Harris of the Greens is an ex-corporate hump, and an ex-Conservative Party member.

Corporate humps?? Even corporate humps are people too, aren't they? Isn't your bro a 'corporate hump'? There would be some interesting conversations around the dinner table, I bet.
 
Papachongo
#6
Hey this meatloaf smells great.
Really? I couldn't smell it over the STENCH OF CORRUPTION!
Really dear not at the table.
No I want to hear what this red commie has to say.
RED! Red like the blood of workers that greases your capitalist machine.
Please I just want our family to enjoy this meal together.(whiping the tears from her eyes.)
Look you've made mom cry. Are you happy you self righteous prick?
Stop! All of you stop!


What made this family fall apart?
POLITICS

It could happen to you (duh duh duuuuuhhh)
 
Reverend Blair
#7
Sounds like dinner at my mom's house.
 
MMMike
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Papachongo

Hey this meatloaf smells great.
Really? I couldn't smell it over the STENCH OF CORRUPTION!
Really dear not at the table.
No I want to hear what this red commie has to say.
RED! Red like the blood of workers that greases your capitalist machine.
Please I just want our family to enjoy this meal together.(whiping the tears from her eyes.)
Look you've made mom cry. Are you happy you self righteous prick?
Stop! All of you stop!


What made this family fall apart?
POLITICS

It could happen to you (duh duh duuuuuhhh)

 
Finder
#9
The current Green Party has some Left wing like policies. But really you could consider in part the green party to be a more Centre right (soem left) Libertarian Party these days. With a motto like... do what you will but as long as it doesn't hurt the envirorment or the health of the nation.

I think that makes a little sence to what the Green's are. I like the Green's but my vote is also going with the NDP.
 
Calberty
#10
"With a motto like.."

The NDP's unofficial motto is:

"Buiding a base for the future"

at least the motto reflects the party.

This is the 17th federal election in which they claim to be 'building a base'. And after all this 'base building' won't finish better than a distant third in any Quebec or Alberta riding.

If they are really lucky they have an outside chance of finishing fourth in seats with almost half the seats of the third place party. wow ...amazing what 17 federal elections can accomplish!
 
Reverend Blair
#11
From Maple Leaf Web: "Jim Harris was first elected to the office with over 80 percent of the vote and the support of the leaders of all of the provincial parties. He was re-elected on the first ballot by 56 percent of the membership in a leadership challenge vote in August 2004. The slide in support was likely due to his controversial habit of using a Council majority to remove elected members who don't agree with him, or who actually employ the GPC's own constitution to block measures they deem not to satisfy Green values. A great many members blame him for the divisions in the party and have called for his resignation, which he has in fact "threatened" to offer on several occasions. He has also said that he would resign as soon as the Party elected an MP."

Looks like Harris is a bad, bad man.

edit...damn urls
 
no1important
#12
He would fit in better with the Conservative Party.
 
Reverend Blair
#13
He would, No1. What's most troubling is the the tactics he has used to consolidate his power. He has forced elected members off the board of the party for daring to oppose them. Some of those members were just trying to uphold the party's constitution.
 
no1important
#14
Sounds like something Kim Jong, Stalin would do. Power hungry people like that, who supress all opposition (especially before they even have one member in House) shows us all why we should not support his party. Imagine what he would be like if the Greens were to ever get a majority? It is even more scarier than Harper getting a majority.
 
Reverend Blair
#15
Yeah, for Harris to be so corrupt when the party doesn't even have any seats does not bode well for the long-term success of the party.
 
no1important
#16
Greens would cut tax breaks to oil-gas sector

A teaser:

CALGARY The Green Party says it will eliminate tax breaks to all fossil fuel sectors. The fledgling party took its energy platform to the heart of the Canadian oilpatch Wednesday, as leader Jim Harris said taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing companies which are making record profits.

"Why are we subsidizing oil-gas interests when they're making the highest profits in their existence?" said Harris, adding that $1.4 billion was spent on federal initiatives to the energy industry last year.

"If you look over the last 30 years, $40 billion of subsidies to oil-gas companies, literally subsidizing global climate change."

But the tough stance leading to the Jan. 23 federal election drew a decided shrug from the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. [/teaser]

I am surprised Harris being an ex Conservative Hack feels that way. I agree with him on this though.
 
Reverend Blair
#17
Green Party: short on policies and democracy
 
Finder
#18
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...on2006&no_ads=

Just another one drops down on the Green party as it violates yet again federal law and it's own parties constitution.

Harris has done very little for a party which could become a player in the political arena one day.
 
no1important
#19
I think Harris has done more to hurt the party than help them.
 
Reverend Blair
#20
I think so to, No1. The thing is that it doesn't get much press coverage because they tend to ignore the Greens. As more conservatives notice what happening it will cut into the Conservative vote though.
 
Finder
#21
And to think in the past 2 elections the greens were seen in a very postive light by most people. I wonder if Harris is actually trying to kill the Green party on purpose. If so he's doing a remarkable job of it.
 
Reverend Blair
#22
I don't think he's trying to kill it, I think he's trying to take it over to push his centre-right policies. It might work too. As more and more people become disaffected from Harper and notice the Greens, the party will grow. It doesn't have the baggage of the old PC party, and if he can attract new members instead of Conservatives who bring their own baggage with them, he could do rather well.

It sucks for the environmental movement though, and it sucks for most of the provincial Green Parties who are being hurt as their supporters turn away from the federal party.
 
Reverend Blair
#23
I don't think he's trying to kill it, I think he's trying to take it over to push his centre-right policies. It might work too. As more and more people become disaffected from Harper and notice the Greens, the party will grow. It doesn't have the baggage of the old PC party, and if he can attract new members instead of Conservatives who bring their own baggage with them, he could do rather well.

It sucks for the environmental movement though, and it sucks for most of the provincial Green Parties who are being hurt as their supporters turn away from the federal party.
 
no1important
#24
Green Party hit with second elections complaint

A teaser:

A second complaint to Elections Canada of alleged electoral-law violations by Green Party officials has been made public by a former party member, even as the party threatens legal action against the initiator of a complaint reported last week.

B.C. activist Dana Miller, who served in the party's shadow cabinet with responsibility for human rights issues, provided The Canadian Press with a copy of her April 15 complaint, alleging violations of federal law and the party's own constitution.

Miller had hoped to run for the party in the riding of Delta Richmond-East. She said in an interview she had been expelled from the party, without due process, after filing the complaint.

In her letter to Chief Electoral Officier Jean-Pierre Kingsley, Miller says party leader Jim Harris did not report expenses he incurred in his 2004 race for the party leadership.

She calls on Kingsley to declare the results of the leadership race invalid and suspend federal payments to the Green Party, which is receiving $1.2 million this year based on a formula of $1.75 per vote won in the last election.

"Leadership expenses were obviously incurred yet none were claimed by Jim Harris, as per the Elections Canada website," said Miller, referring to a government website on which the legally required financial statements of political parties and candidates are posted. [/teaser]

Click link for rest.

It seems that Jim Harris is really doing the greens any favours. I hope he gets the boot soon after election.
 
Finder
#25
Well if Harris actually wants to take over the void left by the Progressive Conservatives, he's doing a horrible Job. He's killing the credibility of the Green's with all these violations, corruption and even purges.
 
Reverend Blair
#26
I don't think he planned on getting caught though. Remember that the Greens he's taking over from and pushing out have a reputation of being a bunch of stupid, disorganized hippies. That's a feeling that's especially prevalent on the right. If Harris looks at them the same way, he could have easily underestimated what the response would be.
 
poligeek
#27
Confustion of an ex-insider

Without disclosing too much personal information I can say that I worked for both the NDP for a number of years and then for the Green Party, before taking my current position which precludes me from being actively involved in partisan politics on a groud level at least.

Over the last two elections I have heard more an more grumbling about the Green Party moving to the right-wing, but have been completely unable to substantiate these claims.

A quick google search turned up plenty of Blogs and ad-hoc comments about the Federal Green's now being right of centre, but no real reliable sources that were willing to state anything of the sort.

In fact it still looks like the Green's are just begining to get on the radar of any media at all.

I have met Jim Harris, and I have to say that on a personable level he impresses me more than any of the other candidates... but that's not really a grand compliment.

Sure he was ex-conservative, but he's been with the GP for 17 years. I'm not sure how his alligence to "conservativism" should be judged considering the time span.

My main confusion comes from trying to evaluate the party platforms, I just did a quick scan of all the federal party sites.

On the front page of the Green Party site I can download their full platform in either PDF or Word.

The NDP, Liberal and Conservative site offered no easily recognizable downloads, all of them had a place for "the issues" which you can click on and read a quick blurb.

After reading through the Green Party platform for the last 40 min. I can say I'd have a very hard time labelling it "right-wing".

I have written to the NDP and asked them to forward me a copy of their platform, because their supposedly impressive environmental platform was desperately lacking on the website.

If I manage to get myself a copy of the NDP platform, I'd be happy to initiate a discussion on the comparative platforms.

I'd also be happy to receive copies of the Conservative and Liberal platforms.
 
paulmartin
#28
Quote:

I've looked at all the party platforms and their track records and priorities. I'll be voting Green this coming election.

Here's where my last Green Party member went:

http://www.tommanley.ca/
As long as you don't vote liberal I guess.
 
Finder
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by paulmartin

Quote:

I've looked at all the party platforms and their track records and priorities. I'll be voting Green this coming election.

Here's where my last Green Party member went:

http://www.tommanley.ca/
As long as you don't vote liberal I guess.

thats nuts. lol.
 
poligeek
#30
I think it's logical to assume that the green party like most new parties (and even like many old parties) does not have the resources to have a tight reign on all of it's former (and possibly current) candidates.

As such you always have to consider the candidate a bit seperately from the party (something that is very difficult to do under the current electoral system).
 

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