The United States of Torture


moghrabi
#1
Quote:

November 4, 2005

How did we stoop so low?



As if Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were not horrifying enough, the Washington Post has unmasked an even greater scandal that will heap disgrace on the nation.

Dana Priest's article "The CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons" paints a sobering picture of an administration that has completely derailed and abandoned any shred of moral authority. The United States has become the number 1 exporter of torture in the world today and George Bush has become the uncontested sovereign of savagery; quite a distinction.

The article provides a window into the constellation of CIA concentration camps that dot the globe like the myriad stars in the Milky Way. Thousands of Muslim's have been swept up in a global dragnet and dumped in secret gulags where they are subjected to the grueling regimen of beatings and torture. The prison camps were authorized by President Bush in an executive "finding" 6 days after Sept 11, that's when, as one high-ranking official said, "The gloves came off". It "gave the CIA broad authorization to disrupt terrorist activity, including permission to kill, capture and detain members of al Qaeda anywhere in the world."

The result of Bush's action was the development of "black sites" where the "disappeared" victims of American foreign policy could be taken and treated with impunity. These prisoners have been abducted from sovereign nations, in clear violation of international law, tortured and, perhaps, killed, without any type legal process in place to shield them from the arbitrary authority of US agents. How can any US citizen or American ally defend this capricious and lethal conduct?

"The top 30 al Qaeda prisoners exist in complete isolation from the outside world. Kept in dark, sometimes underground cells, they have no recognized legal rights, and no one outside the CIA is allowed to talk with or even see them, or to otherwise verify their well-being, said current and former and U.S. and foreign government and intelligence officials," Priest states.

"Complete isolation"? "No legal rights"? "Underground cells"?

Again, the pattern is all too familiar with an administration which refuses to be bound by either international law or common decency.

Ironically, Bush and co. have resurrected a number of the Soviet-era prisons in the Eastern block for their vile activities. How strange that the spawn of Ronald Reagan, arch-rival of the "Evil Empire", would breathe new life into these relics of communist rule; throwing open the iron gates and putting them back to work.

Have we really come full-circle?

Certainly, Dick Cheney would match up quite nicely with his antecedent, Joe Stalin. Cheney has become the administration's foremost "advocate of torture" (Washington Post). He has made a straightforward appeal to members of Congress to continue to allow the "cruel, degrading and inhuman" treatment of prisoners even though it is in clear violation of US treaties banning torture and the Geneva Conventions. Many people now believe that Cheney's impassioned plea to Congress has less to do with his heartfelt convictions and more to do with the fact that the bloody footprints for the abusive behavior leads straight to the VP's front door. As Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell, stated on NPR, "The Secretary of Defense, under cover of the Vice President's office, began to authorize procedures within the armed forces that led to what we've seen. There was a visible audit trail from the Vice President's office through the Secretary of Defense, down to commanders in the field."

Clearly, Cheney's present machinations in the Senate are just a way of concealing his involvement in creating the policy. There's little doubt now of his culpability.

The political and moral fallout from the abuse-scandal will linger for decades to come, savaging the image of the United States as a staunch defender of human rights. What began in metal containers in Afghanistan where Taliban suspects were asphyxiated in the broiling summer sun, led to the open-air cages in Guantanamo Bay where prisoners were callously exposed to the elements for nearly 6 months. The devolution of policy has produced a daisy-chain of rat-infested dungeons manned by CIA goons and bearing the imprimatur of the President of the United States. The war on terror has transformed into a war OF terror and the Bush regime has become the greatest threat to human rights in the world today.

The Red Cross, the ACLU, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International have all provided documented evidence that the Bush administration is engaged in widespread prisoner abuse. The allegations are further corroborated by the eyewitness accounts of military personnel, former inmates, and even Abu Ghraib's former-Commanding Officer, Gen. Janice Karpinski. There's no doubt that cruel and unusual treatment of prisoners is administration policy or that the chain of command follows a straight path to the Oval Office.

The long catalogue of abominations and abuses begins and ends with George W. Bush. He is personally responsible and will have to be held accountable.

Courtesy and Copyright © Mike Whitney

 
Colpy
Conservative
#2
Baloney!

Al Quada terrorists have no legal standing. The Americans would be quite correct, under international law, to put any Taliban or other fighters found in Afghanistan up against a wall and shooting them.

The Geneva Conventions require that any provisions for POWs be RECIPROCAL. Islamists, of course, immediately behead infidel prisoners.

The Geneva Conventions require that combatants expecting treatment as POWs be readily identified in the field by wearing a uniform. Need I say more.

I agree that the existence of secret prisons is disturbing, but the use of torture has NOT been proven.

I do not approve of all the actions taken by the Bush administration, but the order to hunt down and kill terrorist is only sensible. As for the Americans being Monsters, I would point out that they were ATTACKED.

I would also point out that Saddam was responsible for the deaths of an average of 136 persons PER DAY over his 20 something year rule.
 
no1important
#3
Quote:

Al Quada terrorists have no legal standing. The Americans would be quite correct, under international law, to put any Taliban or other fighters found in Afghanistan up against a wall and shooting them.

Says who? "W"? He is in violation of international law and the geneva conventions.

Quote:

The Geneva Conventions require that combatants expecting treatment as POWs be readily identified in the field by wearing a uniform. Need I say more.

As long as they have a well-defined chain of command, are clearly distinguishable from the civilian population, carry their arms openly.

Convention I offers protections to combatants, who are defined as members of the armed forces of a party to an international conflict, members of militias or volunteer corps including members of organized resistance movements as long as they have a well-defined chain of command, are clearly distinguishable from the civilian population, carry their arms openly, and obey the laws of war

In international conflicts, guerrillas must distinguish themselves from the civilian population if they are preparing or engaged in an attack. At a minimum, guerrillas must carry their arms openly
 
MMMike
#4
Quote:

As long as they have a well-defined chain of command, are clearly distinguishable from the civilian population, carry their arms openly.

Convention I offers protections to combatants, who are defined as members of the armed forces of a party to an international conflict, members of militias or volunteer corps including members of organized resistance movements as long as they have a well-defined chain of command, are clearly distinguishable from the civilian population, carry their arms openly, and obey the laws of war

In international conflicts, guerrillas must distinguish themselves from the civilian population if they are preparing or engaged in an attack. At a minimum, guerrillas must carry their arms openly

Surely you are not suggesting that Al Queda fits this criteria?? Were they wearing a uniform when they boarded the aircraft on 9/11? Are they carrying their arms openly when they explode a bomb in the middle of a group of women and children?
 
no1important
#5
Al Queda or who ever they are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq fit it. The US can not pick and choose who gets Geneva convention rights and who do not. All do.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Baloney!

Al Quada terrorists have no legal standing. The Americans would be quite correct, under international law, to put any Taliban or other fighters found in Afghanistan up against a wall and shooting them.

The Geneva Conventions require that any provisions for POWs be RECIPROCAL. Islamists, of course, immediately behead infidel prisoners.

The Geneva Conventions require that combatants expecting treatment as POWs be readily identified in the field by wearing a uniform. Need I say more.

I agree that the existence of secret prisons is disturbing, but the use of torture has NOT been proven.

I do not approve of all the actions taken by the Bush administration, but the order to hunt down and kill terrorist is only sensible. As for the Americans being Monsters, I would point out that they were ATTACKED.

I would also point out that Saddam was responsible for the deaths of an average of 136 persons PER DAY over his 20 something year rule.

did someone say Baloney??? Does that same someone endorse and support BARBARISM in 2005???? The bush fanatics pretend /or at least vocalize that the US has some "higher" standard"........and acts worse than the lowest of the low. So they have not resorted to beheadings and gassing people..... ,(that we know of) that does not imply they don't have "methods" of their own .......which are probably more current as far as technology and modern torture goes.

The fact that the bush regime will not allow human rights agencies to visit their secret prisons........is a RED ALERT. (Something BIG to hide??? ) And this has been going on for some time......but those AIR HEAD neo con americans are too busy jostling /defending the indefensible or are too damned uninformed now to make an intelligent arguement. All they do is display the same ignorance/arrogance, snobbery, presumption, and dismissal of laws as if they do not apply to them.......as in their minds they are the second coming of the Roman Gods and can "rule" as they wish.. The laws (in their sick minds) are for the peons . Delusional /grandiose doesn't begin to describe their insanity. Power, ......excessive power, abuse of power and the deterioration of integrety , ethical standards , are a progressive phenomena that has been observed over and over in history.



actually USof T.....is quite apt at the moment. With all its threats to other nation...... it causes such tensions, fear in said nations.... that this is a form of torture too. Terror , thy name is america.

it will take YEARS to change the current situation.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#7
Ocean Breeze.....

You should get down on your knees every night and thank God that if there is to be only ONE superpower in the world, it is the United States.

I agree that American detention centres should be open to inspection.

I strongly disagree that Islamist prisoners captured in Afghanistan or elsewhere have ANY legal rights outside of the barest of humanitarian protections. (food, drink, shelter, medical care,freedom from torture)

Unfortunately, I am not sure they are getting any of those things. I hope they are.

Remember, though, al-Quada has no prisoners. They only have the blood of murdered innocents on their hands.
 
moghrabi
#8
OK Ocean. listen to Colby here and go on your knees and worship GWB. He is the second coming. Not funny Colby. You are asking the impossible.
 
no1important
#9
Quote:

You should get down on your knees every night and thank God that if there is to be only ONE superpower in the world, it is the United States.

More like superthug or superbully but soon enough China will be a superpower and your war loving government can start up the cold war all over again.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#10
Quote:

You should get down on your knees every night and thank God that if there is to be only ONE superpower in the world, it is the United States.

you're kidding, right??? You wanna worship this "super power".........ya just go right ahead........but lay off telling anyone else what to do.....or what they should be.

..........sheesh....the arrogance of some.

back to the torture chambers of the US....... it is "interesting" that this story has not gotten much play until recently. Maybe some are finally waking up to the mess they got themselves in. What would be interesting to know too.......is how long these torture prisons aka "secret" prisons have been in existence. I recall reading a report that some people were shot and killed when they inadvertantly ventured too close to one. That report was quickly suppressed. So what goes??
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabi

OK Ocean. listen to Colby here and go on your knees and worship GWB. He is the second coming. Not funny Colby. You are asking the impossible.


yea right! can't ya just visualize YT doing the "worship " thing of the CURRENT america??? Almost laughable.

(and this is from someone who don't do the "worship" thing .

hero WORSHIP is an american phenomena. Used to be a Roman phenomena. Most have evolved beyond that .
 
moghrabi
#12
And after the Roman Worship Phenomena, Rome collapsed. Hopefully the US of T will be soon. Very soon.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabi

And after the Roman Worship Phenomena, Rome collapsed. Hopefully the US of T will be soon. Very soon.

ya know......with the degree of "secrecy" that is the bush regime....... one is hard pressed to know what really goes on now. The excuse "security" reasons for this added secrecy in gov't is suspect at best. They cannot claim transparency and full accountability when there are so many layers of "secrecy".....and spin.

on the other hand..........these layers are starting to peel off and we are seeing a lot of the ugliness that has been hidden. One dreads to think of what we are not privy to..



the us will collapse or implode or??? , as nothing last forever and as per usual ..........it will be the author of it's own undoing. Too much, too fast, too greedy.......and just like Rome.......too many excesses. not enough solid wisdom,common sense , and moderation. .........and the regression of a society begins. "I want", "all about ME". societies don't last either. Too narcassitic.
 
moghrabi
#14
Quote:

Sunday Herald - 02 October 2005

Torture of Iraqis was for ‘stress relief’, say US soldiers

By Neil Mackay, Investigations Editor

FOR the first time, American soldiers who personally tortured Iraqi prisoners have come forward to give testimony to human rights organisations about crimes they comm itted.

Three soldiers – a captain and two sergeants – from the 82nd Airborne Division stationed at Forward Operating Base (FOB) Mercury near Fallujah in Iraq have told Human Rights Watch how prisoners were tortured both as a form of stress relief and as a way of breaking them for interrogation sessions.

These latest revelations about the torture of Iraqi detainees come at a time when the Bush administration thought it could draw a line under the scandal of Abu Ghraib following last week’s imprisonment of Private Lynndie England for her now infamous role in the abuse of prisoners and the photographing of torture.

The 82nd Airborne soldiers at FOB Mercury earned the nickname “The Murderous Maniacs” from local Iraqis and took the moniker as a badge of honour.

The soldiers referred to their Iraqi captives as PUCs – persons under control – and used the expressions “f***ing a PUC” and “smoking a PUC” to refer respectively to torture and forced physical exertion.

One sergeant provided graphic descriptions to Human Rights Watch investigators about acts of abuse carried out both by himself and others. He now says he regrets his actions. His regiment arrived at FOB Mercury in August 2003. He said: “ The first interrogation that I observed was the first time I saw a PUC pushed to the brink of a stroke or a heart attack. At first I was surprised, like, ‘This is what we are allowed to do?’”

The troops would put sand-bags on prisoners’ heads and cuff them with plastic zip-ties. The sergeant, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said if he was told that prisoners had been found with homemade bombs, “we would f*** them up, put them in stress positions and put them in a tent and withhold water … It was like a game. You know, how far could you make this guy go before he passes out or just collapses on you?”

He explained: “To ‘f*** a PUC’ means to beat him up. We would give them blows to the head, chest, legs and stomach, pull them down, kick dirt on them. This happened every day. To ‘smoke’ someone is to put them in stress positions until they get muscle fatigue and pass out. That happened every day.

“Some days we would just get bored so we would have everyone sit in a corner and then make them get in a pyramid. We did that for amusement.”

Iraqis were “smoked” for up to 12 hours. That would entail being made to hold five-gallon water cans in both hands with out-stretched arms, made to do press-ups and star jumps. At no time, during these sessions, would they get water or food apart from dry biscuits. Sleep deprivation was also “a really big thing”, the sergeant added.

To prepare a prisoner for interrogation, military intelligence officers ordered that the Iraqis be deprived of sleep. The sergeant said he and other soldiers did this by “banging on their cages, crashing them into the cages, kicking them, kicking dirt, yelling”.

They’d also pour cold water over prisoners and then cover them in sand and mud. On some occasions, prisoners were tortured for revenge. “If we were on patrol and caught a guy that killed our captain or my buddy last week … man, it is human nature,” said the sergeant – but on other occasions, he confessed, it was for “sport”.

Many prisoners were completely innocent and had no part in the insurgency, he said – but intelligence officers had told soldiers to exhaust the prisoners to make them co-operate. He said he now knew their behaviour was “wrong”, but added “this was the norm”. “Trends were accepted. Leadership failed to provide clear guidance so we just developed it. They wanted intel [intelligence]. As long as no PUC came up dead, it happened. ”

According to Captain Ian Fishback of the 82nd Airborne Division, army doctrine had been broken by allowing Iraqis who were captured by them to remain in their custody, instead of being sent “behind the lines” to trained military police.

Pictures of abuse at FOB Mercury were destroyed by soldiers after the scandal of Abu Ghraib broke.

However, Fishback told his company commander about the abuse and was told “remember the honour of the unit is at stake” and “don’t expect me to go to bat for you on this issue if you take this up”. Fishback then told his battalion commander who advised him to speak to the Judge Advocate General’s (JAG) office, which deals with issues of military law.

The JAG told Fishback that the Geneva Conventions “are a grey area”. When Fishback described some of the abuses he had witnessed the JAG said it was “within” Geneva Conventions.

Fishback added: “ If I go to JAG and JAG cannot give me clear guidance about what I should stop and what I should allow to happen, how is an NCO or a private expected to act appropriately?”

Fishback, a West Point graduate who has served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, spent 17 months trying to raise the matter with his superiors. When he attempted to approach representatives of US Senators John McCain and John Warner about the abuse, he was told that he would not be granted a pass to meet them on his day off.

Fishback says that army investigators were currently more interested in finding out the identity of the other soldiers who spoke to Human Rights Watch than dealing with the systemic abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

Colonel Joseph Curtin, a senior army spokesman at the Pentagon, said: “We do take the captain seriously and are following up on this.”

Fishback has now been removed from special forces training because of the army investigation.


Copyright © 2005 smg sunday newspapers ltd. no.176088

http://www.sundayherald.com/52035[/u]
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#15
Stress Relief?? * remember reading that elsewhere too..


Imagine the "stress" fighting a bush war that is based on fecking lies. ......and then using the people of the nation you invaded as stress balls....dolls.

A new low ??? or a bottomless pit for these blokes???
 
moghrabi
#16
Well maybe the insurgents in Iraq are exploding those booby traps for stress relief too.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabi

Well maybe the insurgents in Iraq are exploding those booby traps for stress relief too.


there ya go.!!!
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#18
Quote:

Secrets and Shame
by Bob Herbert
The New York Times
November 3, 2005

Ultimately the whole truth will come out and historians will have their say, and Americans will look in the mirror and be ashamed.

Abraham Lincoln spoke of the "better angels" of our nature. George W. Bush will have none of that. He's set his sights much, much lower.

The latest story from the Dante-esque depths of this administration was front-page news in The Washington Post yesterday. The reporter, Dana Priest, gave us the best glimpse yet of the extent of the secret network of prisons in which the C.I.A. has been hiding and interrogating terror suspects. The network includes a facility at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe.

"The hidden global internment network is a central element in the C.I.A.'s unconventional war on terrorism," wrote Ms. Priest. "It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the C.I.A.'s covert actions."

The individuals held in these prisons have been deprived of all rights. They don't even have the basic minimum safeguards of prisoners of war. If they are being tortured or otherwise abused, there is no way for the outside world to know about it. If some mistake has been made and they are, in fact, innocent of wrongdoing - too bad.

As Ms. Priest wrote, "Virtually nothing is known about who is kept in the facilities, what interrogation methods are employed with them, or how decisions are made about whether they should be detained or for how long."

This is the border along which democracy bleeds into tyranny.

Some of the prisoners being held by the C.I.A. are no doubt murderous individuals who, given the opportunity, would do tremendous harm. There are others, however, whose links to terrorist activities are dubious at best, and perhaps nonexistent.

The C.I.A.'s original plan was to hide and interrogate maybe two or three dozen top leaders of Al Qaeda who were directly involved in the Sept. 11 attacks or were believed to pose an imminent threat. It turned out that many more people were corralled by the C.I.A. for one reason or another. Their terror ties and intelligence value were less certain. But they were thrown into the secret prisons, nevertheless.

A number of current and former officials told The Washington Post that "the original standard for consigning suspects to the invisible universe was lowered or ignored."

The secret C.I.A. prisons are just one link in the long chain of abominations that the Bush administration has unrolled in its so-called fight against terrorism. Rendition, the outsourcing of torture to places like Egypt, Jordan and Syria, is another. And then there are the thousands upon thousands of detainees being held at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. There is little, if any, legal oversight of these detainees, or effective monitoring of the conditions in which they are being held.

Terrible instances of torture and other forms of abuse of detainees have come to light. The Pentagon has listed the deaths of at least 27 prisoners in American custody as confirmed or suspected criminal homicides.

None of this has given the administration pause. It continues to go out of its way to block a legislative effort by Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, to ban the "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of any prisoner in U.S. custody.

I had a conversation yesterday with Michael Posner, executive director of Human Rights First, about the secret C.I.A. prisons. "We're a nation founded on laws and rules that say you treat people humanely," he said, "and among the safeguards is that people in detention should be formally recognized; they should have access, at a minimum, to the Red Cross; and somebody should be accountable for their treatment.

"What we've done is essentially to throw away the rule book and say that there are some people who are beyond the law, beyond scrutiny, and that the people doing the detentions and interrogations are totally unaccountable. It's a secret process that almost inevitably leads to abuse."

Worse stories are still to come - stories of murder, torture and abuse. We'll watch them unfold the way people watch the aftermath of terrible accidents. And then we'll ask, "How could this have happened?"

Topplebush.com
Posted: November 3, 2005


america: shame on U.

( and don't ask "how could this happen??"......when y'all passively ,indifferently allowed it to happen. Should get even more "interesting."
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#19
Quote:

Secrets and Shame
by Bob Herbert
The New York Times
November 3, 2005

Ultimately the whole truth will come out and historians will have their say, and Americans will look in the mirror and be ashamed.

Abraham Lincoln spoke of the "better angels" of our nature. George W. Bush will have none of that. He's set his sights much, much lower.

The latest story from the Dante-esque depths of this administration was front-page news in The Washington Post yesterday. The reporter, Dana Priest, gave us the best glimpse yet of the extent of the secret network of prisons in which the C.I.A. has been hiding and interrogating terror suspects. The network includes a facility at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe.

"The hidden global internment network is a central element in the C.I.A.'s unconventional war on terrorism," wrote Ms. Priest. "It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the C.I.A.'s covert actions."

The individuals held in these prisons have been deprived of all rights. They don't even have the basic minimum safeguards of prisoners of war. If they are being tortured or otherwise abused, there is no way for the outside world to know about it. If some mistake has been made and they are, in fact, innocent of wrongdoing - too bad.

As Ms. Priest wrote, "Virtually nothing is known about who is kept in the facilities, what interrogation methods are employed with them, or how decisions are made about whether they should be detained or for how long."

This is the border along which democracy bleeds into tyranny.

Some of the prisoners being held by the C.I.A. are no doubt murderous individuals who, given the opportunity, would do tremendous harm. There are others, however, whose links to terrorist activities are dubious at best, and perhaps nonexistent.

The C.I.A.'s original plan was to hide and interrogate maybe two or three dozen top leaders of Al Qaeda who were directly involved in the Sept. 11 attacks or were believed to pose an imminent threat. It turned out that many more people were corralled by the C.I.A. for one reason or another. Their terror ties and intelligence value were less certain. But they were thrown into the secret prisons, nevertheless.

A number of current and former officials told The Washington Post that "the original standard for consigning suspects to the invisible universe was lowered or ignored."

The secret C.I.A. prisons are just one link in the long chain of abominations that the Bush administration has unrolled in its so-called fight against terrorism. Rendition, the outsourcing of torture to places like Egypt, Jordan and Syria, is another. And then there are the thousands upon thousands of detainees being held at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. There is little, if any, legal oversight of these detainees, or effective monitoring of the conditions in which they are being held.

Terrible instances of torture and other forms of abuse of detainees have come to light. The Pentagon has listed the deaths of at least 27 prisoners in American custody as confirmed or suspected criminal homicides.

None of this has given the administration pause. It continues to go out of its way to block a legislative effort by Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, to ban the "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of any prisoner in U.S. custody.

I had a conversation yesterday with Michael Posner, executive director of Human Rights First, about the secret C.I.A. prisons. "We're a nation founded on laws and rules that say you treat people humanely," he said, "and among the safeguards is that people in detention should be formally recognized; they should have access, at a minimum, to the Red Cross; and somebody should be accountable for their treatment.

"What we've done is essentially to throw away the rule book and say that there are some people who are beyond the law, beyond scrutiny, and that the people doing the detentions and interrogations are totally unaccountable. It's a secret process that almost inevitably leads to abuse."

Worse stories are still to come - stories of murder, torture and abuse. We'll watch them unfold the way people watch the aftermath of terrible accidents. And then we'll ask, "How could this have happened?"

Topplebush.com
Posted: November 3, 2005


america: shame on U.

( and don't ask "how could this happen??"......when y'all passively ,indifferently allowed it to happen. Should get even more "interesting."
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#20
Quote:

Secrets and Shame
by Bob Herbert
The New York Times
November 3, 2005

Ultimately the whole truth will come out and historians will have their say, and Americans will look in the mirror and be ashamed.

Abraham Lincoln spoke of the "better angels" of our nature. George W. Bush will have none of that. He's set his sights much, much lower.

The latest story from the Dante-esque depths of this administration was front-page news in The Washington Post yesterday. The reporter, Dana Priest, gave us the best glimpse yet of the extent of the secret network of prisons in which the C.I.A. has been hiding and interrogating terror suspects. The network includes a facility at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe.

"The hidden global internment network is a central element in the C.I.A.'s unconventional war on terrorism," wrote Ms. Priest. "It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the C.I.A.'s covert actions."

The individuals held in these prisons have been deprived of all rights. They don't even have the basic minimum safeguards of prisoners of war. If they are being tortured or otherwise abused, there is no way for the outside world to know about it. If some mistake has been made and they are, in fact, innocent of wrongdoing - too bad.

As Ms. Priest wrote, "Virtually nothing is known about who is kept in the facilities, what interrogation methods are employed with them, or how decisions are made about whether they should be detained or for how long."

This is the border along which democracy bleeds into tyranny.

Some of the prisoners being held by the C.I.A. are no doubt murderous individuals who, given the opportunity, would do tremendous harm. There are others, however, whose links to terrorist activities are dubious at best, and perhaps nonexistent.

The C.I.A.'s original plan was to hide and interrogate maybe two or three dozen top leaders of Al Qaeda who were directly involved in the Sept. 11 attacks or were believed to pose an imminent threat. It turned out that many more people were corralled by the C.I.A. for one reason or another. Their terror ties and intelligence value were less certain. But they were thrown into the secret prisons, nevertheless.

A number of current and former officials told The Washington Post that "the original standard for consigning suspects to the invisible universe was lowered or ignored."

The secret C.I.A. prisons are just one link in the long chain of abominations that the Bush administration has unrolled in its so-called fight against terrorism. Rendition, the outsourcing of torture to places like Egypt, Jordan and Syria, is another. And then there are the thousands upon thousands of detainees being held at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. There is little, if any, legal oversight of these detainees, or effective monitoring of the conditions in which they are being held.

Terrible instances of torture and other forms of abuse of detainees have come to light. The Pentagon has listed the deaths of at least 27 prisoners in American custody as confirmed or suspected criminal homicides.

None of this has given the administration pause. It continues to go out of its way to block a legislative effort by Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, to ban the "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of any prisoner in U.S. custody.

I had a conversation yesterday with Michael Posner, executive director of Human Rights First, about the secret C.I.A. prisons. "We're a nation founded on laws and rules that say you treat people humanely," he said, "and among the safeguards is that people in detention should be formally recognized; they should have access, at a minimum, to the Red Cross; and somebody should be accountable for their treatment.

"What we've done is essentially to throw away the rule book and say that there are some people who are beyond the law, beyond scrutiny, and that the people doing the detentions and interrogations are totally unaccountable. It's a secret process that almost inevitably leads to abuse."

Worse stories are still to come - stories of murder, torture and abuse. We'll watch them unfold the way people watch the aftermath of terrible accidents. And then we'll ask, "How could this have happened?"

Topplebush.com
Posted: November 3, 2005


america: shame on U.

( and don't ask "how could this happen??"......when y'all passively ,indifferently allowed it to happen. Should get even more "interesting."
 
peapod
#21
I listened and watched col. Janis Karpinski, the former head of Abu Ghraib, or should I say scapegoat. Its clear the united states government does not uphold or honor the geneva convention. They continued sadam work at abu ghraib. What a feckin disgrace! Someday these people must be held accountable, just has they want terrorists held accountable. They have the nerve to talk about syria, they are not better, they are worse. The truth will come out about the acts of committed. They should and deserve to be brought before the world to stand trial for the crimes they have committed. Anyone in the canadian government who aided and abetted the american government in their dis regarding the geneva convention should be on trial, right along with them.



Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.


There was stunning evidence to support the allegations, Taguba added—“detailed witness statements and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence.” Photographs and videos taken by the soldiers as the abuses were happening were not included in his report, Taguba said, because of their “extremely sensitive nature.”

One can only imagine what they are doing in the CIA secret prisons, some day we are going to know that, and on that day, america better hang there head in shame.

http://www.democracynow.org/article..../10/26/1423248
 
moghrabi
#22
F*cking A-holes. I can't believe this shit is going on and the US wants terrorism to stop.
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabi

F*cking A-holes. I can't believe this shit is going on and the US wants terrorism to stop.

ya know......not sure they do want "terrorism" to stop. What would they use as an excuse to WAR, TORTURE, KILL and MAIM.....with their extravagant military equipment. ???? They would have to create another fecking lie. The "military" defines america. They glamorize war , and the power , that war gives them. Warriors are "heros" in their minds......and they worship their heros. their heros assume "god" like properties after a while. ..........and no matter what ugliness they do......it is acceptable or they find an excuse for it.

america has so much invested in the military it has to do something to show for it. ......and WAR is the demo of choice.

(Roman emperors would be green with envy......but completely understand the current u.s. mindset. A kinship written in blood) Rome had a fascination/obsession with "heros" too. Idol worship is not dead..)--
 
no1important
#24
Well terrorism will be front and centre and will continue until they can engage in a new cold war with China.

The US spends so much money on the military they have to find a "threat" to justify it.
 
moghrabi
#25
So Communism disappeared and so the confrontation. They had to create another boggy threat (terrorism). I agree with no1, until they have a real enemy, terrorism will prosper.

But I wonder if most of the terrorists are made up in the USof A
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabi

So Communism disappeared and so the confrontation. They had to create another boggy threat (terrorism). I agree with no1, until they have a real enemy, terrorism will prosper.

But I wonder if most of the terrorists are made up in the USof A


the u.s. is the author of most of its problems... and with the anger at it......it follows that it inadvertantly creates terrorists. Forget all the nonsense that the bush cabal has been spewing about terrorists "hating" the american freedoms". That is just malarky. It has to do with how the us has been treating the ME..... with it's bias towards Israel.......etc etc. the political dynamics have bred anger and hatred of the US for some time. They have just morphed into active terrorism in the past few years. (well before 9-11). The US did not deal effectively with all the previous terror attacks on US interests so the terrorists got bolder. Progressive nature of it.

9-11 and bush have made terrorism into something else entirely.........and the rest of the world sees this.....as do the terrorists. the invasion of Iraq has just fostered more rage at the US ........and this rage will continue to morph into more terrorism.

It has been evident all along that bush cabal needs terrorism to define his presidency. ......and to further his own agenda.. whatever it might be. Can't tell.......as the chap is a pathological lier. who can only robotically repeat the same tiresome phrases.
 
Jo Canadian
#27
 
jjw1965
#28
US forces 'used chemical weapons' during assault on city of Fallujah

Powerful new evidence emerged yesterday that the United States dropped massive quantities of white phosphorus on the Iraqi city of Fallujah during the attack on the city in November 2004, killing insurgents and civilians with the appalling burns that are the signature of this weapon. More...
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#29
Quote:

S Lied to Britain Over Use of Napalm in Iraq War
by Colin Brown

American officials lied to British ministers over the use of "internationally reviled" napalm-type firebombs in Iraq.



The US has used internationally reviled weapons that the UK refuses to use, and has then apparently lied to UK officials, showing how little weight the UK carries in influencing American policy.

Mike Lewis
The Iraq Analysis Group
Yesterday's disclosure led to calls by MPs for a full statement to the Commons and opened ministers to allegations that they held back the facts until after the general election.

Despite persistent rumors of injuries among Iraqis consistent with the use of incendiary weapons such as napalm, Adam Ingram, the Defense minister, assured Labour MPs in January that US forces had not used a new generation of incendiary weapons, codenamed MK77, in Iraq.

But Mr Ingram admitted to the Labour MP Harry Cohen in a private letter obtained by The Independent that he had inadvertently misled Parliament because he had been misinformed by the US. "The US confirmed to my officials that they had not used MK77s in Iraq at any time and this was the basis of my response to you," he told Mr Cohen. "I regret to say that I have since discovered that this is not the case and must now correct the position."

Mr Ingram said 30 MK77 firebombs were used by the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in the invasion of Iraq between 31 March and 2 April 2003. They were used against military targets "away from civilian targets", he said. This avoids breaching the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW), which permits their use only against military targets.

Britain, which has no stockpiles of the weapons, ratified the convention, but the US did not.

The confirmation that US officials misled British ministers led to new questions last night about the value of the latest assurances by the US. Mr Cohen said there were rumors that the firebombs were used in the US assault on the insurgent stronghold in Fallujah last year, claims denied by the US. He is tabling more questions seeking assurances that the weapons were not used against civilians.

Mr Ingram did not explain why the US officials had misled him, but the US and British governments were accused of a cover-up. The Iraq Analysis Group, which campaigned against the war, said the US authorities only admitted the use of the weapons after the evidence from reporters had become irrefutable.

Mike Lewis, a spokesman for the group, said: "The US has used internationally reviled weapons that the UK refuses to use, and has then apparently lied to UK officials, showing how little weight the UK carries in influencing American policy."

He added: "Evidence that Mr Ingram had given false information to Parliament was publicly available months ago. He has waited until after the election to admit to it - a clear sign of the Government's embarrassment that they are doing nothing to restrain their own coalition partner in Iraq."

The US State Department website admitted in the run-up to the election that US forces had used MK77s in Iraq. Protests were made by MPs, but it was only this week that Mr Ingram confirmed the reports were true.

Mike Moore, the Liberal Democrat defense spokes-man, said: "It is very serious that this type of weapon was used in Iraq, but this shows the US has not been completely open with the UK. We are supposed to have a special relationship.

"It has also taken two months for the minister to clear this up. This is welcome candor, but it will raise fresh questions about how open the Government wished to be... before the election."

The MK77 bombs, an evolution of the napalm used in Vietnam and Korea, carry kerosene-based jet fuel and polystyrene so that, like napalm, the gel sticks to structures and to its victims. The bombs lack stabilizing fins, making them far from precise.

gosh..........the bush regime would never lie to its best friend ..........now would it??? (sarcasm)

( in a NY second......
 
moghrabi
#30
I hope Bush and everyone helping him burn in Phosphorous hell.
 

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