UN chief urges Palestinian cabinet to meet world demands


sanctus
#1





CAIRO (AFP) - UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon urged the newly formed Palestinian unity government Saturday to meet the demands set by the international community.
"We expect that the national unity government would meet the expectations of the international community for the peace and the security of the region," he said.
He was speaking to reporters after a meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on the second leg of his first tour of the Middle East since taking office three months ago.
Western powers have given a cautious welcome to the Palestinian unity cabinet, insisting it should renounce violence, recognise Israel and agree to abide by past peace deals.
The government including ministers from both prime minister Ismail Haniya's hardline Hamas movement and president Mahmud Abbas' mainstream Fatah party was unveiled on March 15 after months of intense haggling.
Ban is expected in Tel Aviv later Saturday for the third leg of a tour he kicked off in Baghdad and is due to hold talks with Abbas on Sunday.
"My itinerary schedule does not include meeting with prime minster Haniya," Ban told reporters.
He said however he may hold talks with two leading moderates in the new government, foreign minister Ziad Abu Amr and finance minister Salam Fayyad.
Ban's visit to the region comes ahead of next week's Arab summit in Riyadh and coincides with a trip by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.


Copyright © 2007 Agence France Presse
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#2
Ban-Ki-Moon, is an America stooge, even worse than the last bagboy.
 
I think not
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver View Post

Ban-Ki-Moon, is an America stooge, even worse than the last bagboy.

Is everybody on this God forsaken planet an American stooge to you?
 
DurkaDurka
No Party Affiliation
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not View Post

Is everybody on this God forsaken planet an American stooge to you?

except for Chavez, Fidel and the green giant.
 
CDNBear
#5
Chavez = No opposition media, right of decree rule, a violator of human rights(according to HRW)

Fidel = Dictator, violator of human rights(according to HRW +++)

Green Giant??? What did he do that was so bad?
 
earth_as_one
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post





CAIRO (AFP) - UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon urged the newly formed Palestinian unity government Saturday to meet the demands set by the international community.

???eao I always wonder what is meant by the "international community". Does this mean the UN or the UNSC has passed a resolution? Or does this really mean a group of nations led by the US????

"We expect that the national unity government would meet the expectations of the international community for the peace and the security of the region," he said.
He was speaking to reporters after a meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on the second leg of his first tour of the Middle East since taking office three months ago.
Western powers have given a cautious welcome to the Palestinian unity cabinet, insisting it should renounce violence, recognise Israel and agree to abide by past peace deals.

???eao Can somone explain why Palestinian refugees (four million people displaced as a result of Israel's creation and ongoing expansion) must renounce violence and recognize Israel, while Israel can use acts of violence against these people and deny their right to be citizens of a nation??? Do people have a right to use violence to get fundamental rights? Do people have a right to use violence to deny the fundamental rights of others? Of the two forms of violence which form is more justifiable? Violence for freedom or violence to deny freedom? Many people on this form recognize Israel's right to violence.

The government including ministers from both prime minister Ismail Haniya's hardline Hamas movement and president Mahmud Abbas' mainstream Fatah party was unveiled on March 15 after months of intense haggling.
Ban is expected in Tel Aviv later Saturday for the third leg of a tour he kicked off in Baghdad and is due to hold talks with Abbas on Sunday.
"My itinerary schedule does not include meeting with prime minster Haniya," Ban told reporters.
He said however he may hold talks with two leading moderates in the new government, foreign minister Ziad Abu Amr and finance minister Salam Fayyad.
Ban's visit to the region comes ahead of next week's Arab summit in Riyadh and coincides with a trip by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.


Copyright © 2007 Agence France Presse

eao: So the UN leader meets with one side in the dispute but has no time for the other. Does Ban sound like a man in a hurry to end this war? The root cause of this dispute is simple:

Quote:

Palestinians Paying the Price for Settlement Expansion
January-February 2003

Land is at the heart of the century-old contest between Israelis and Palestinians. Settlements are the most noteworthy manifestation of this continuing competition, the clearest barometer of relations between the two peoples and the most potent obstacle to the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The notion that Israel's expanding settlement enterprise can proceed without harming Palestinians or infringing on their patrimony is as old as the Zionist movement itself. If the slogan "a land without a people for a people without a land" proved successful in mobilizing generations of Jews to come and settle Palestine, it was from the outset, and remains today, a notion at odds with the reality on the ground.

Former prime minister Ehud Barak presided over the most extensive expansion of settlements and their lands in almost a decade, in part because he underestimated the continuing power of settlement to "create facts on the ground" that Palestinians would find insufferable...

http://www.fmep.org/reports/vol13/no...ing_price.html

Palestinians do find them insufferable. They have since 1948. It took until the 1960's to become violent. As time goes by they are getting angrier and better armed. Meanwhile the ethnic cleansing continues...

Quote:

Israel Plans Settlement on West Bank



By MARK LAVIE
The Associated Press
Monday, January 15, 2007; 12:33 PM

JERUSALEM -- The Israeli government on Monday published plans to build new homes in its largest West Bank settlement, defying American opposition to such construction just as U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in the region on a peace-seeking mission...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011500281.html

The "international community" doesn't seem to concerned about the root cause of this problem. Meanwhile Palestinians die violently each day. Some are killed by Israelis:


Quote:

International Middle East Media Center

The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza issued a report on Monday which stated that 13 Palestinians including one woman, were killed while 188 others were injured by Israeli army fire during the month of February 2007.

Israeli army forces a Palestinian civilian to strip naked in Nablus offensive

The report mentioned that the number of the injured from the 3 to18 age category was 70. In effect, the ratio of injured children stands at 37.2 % of the total figure of casualties.

In the reported the ministry of Health stated that due to the clashes that erupted between Israeli troops and Palestinian civilians protesting the excavation near the Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, 23 civilians were hospitalized while hundreds others were treated on the spot.

The military offensive ("Hot Winters") that the Israeli army conducted in Nablus city in the northern part of the West Bank, lasted nearly all of last week. The report stated that Israeli forces intensified the bombings of residents' homes in the Old Town of Nablus. 150 houses and a shop were damaged during the operation, according to the report.

The report confirmed that during the Nablus military offensive the Israeli army attacked the health sector. The Israeli forces prevented ambulances belonging to the Red Crescent Society and the medical aid from arriving to help the two killed civilians in Nablus' old city; both were injured and remained bleeding for more than two hours before they died.

In addition, Israeli troops deployed in Nablus stopped medical crews from attending other injured or sick civilians. Soldiers detained the medical crews and usully forced them to strip naked before letting them go, the report concluded.

http://www.imemc.org/article/47273

(IMEMC is a media center developed in collaboration between Palestinian and International journalists to provide independent English language media coverage of Israel-Palestine. IMEMC provides fair and comprehensive coverage of events and developments in Israel-Palestine.)

While others a result of civil war:

Quote:

18 Palestinians Killed in Gaza Fighting

Violence Among the Worst of Year-Long Struggle Between Fatah and Hamas Movements


By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, February 3, 2007; Page A10

JERUSALEM, Feb. 2 -- At least 18 Palestinians, including two children, were killed in heavy factional fighting across the northern Gaza Strip on Friday, leaving a truce reached this week in ashes.

The street battles between gunmen from the rival Fatah and Hamas movements brought the two-day death toll among Palestinians to at least 24. The two groups have been locked for the past year in a political struggle for control of the Palestinian Authority...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020200141.html

Here are the stats in the conflict since it heated up back in 2000:



Number of Children


Number of Prisoners




http://www.ifamericansknew.org
[/quote]

People who advocate peace settlements are targets:

Quote:

On November 4 , 1995 , Rabin was assassinated by Yigal Amir , a right-wing Orthodox Jewish radical who had strenuously opposed Rabin's signing of the Oslo Accords, after attending a rally promoting the Oslo process at Tel Aviv 's Kings of Israel Square (which was renamed Yitzhak Rabin Square after his death). Rabin died of massive blood loss and a punctured lung on the operating table at the nearby Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak..._and_aftermath

Quote:

Killing of Hamas leader ends truce
CHRIS McGREAL
Guardian , 22 August 2003

Gaza City -- Five Israeli missiles incinerated Ismail Abu Shanab in Gaza City yesterday, killing one of the most powerful voices for peace in Hamas and destroying the ceasefire that Palestinian leaders believed would avert civil war.

Israeli helicopters struck the car carrying the third most senior Hamas leader in retaliation for Tuesday's suicide bombing of a Jerusalem bus on Tuesday, killing 20 mostly orthodox Jews, including six children.

The missiles also buried a seven-week ceasefire already strained by Israeli killings of Islamic militants and retaliatory suicide bombings, and threw the US-led road map to peace deeper into crisis.

Hamas declared an immediate end to the truce and vowed a bloody revenge for the death of Abu Shanab, who was married with 11 children.

"This means Sharon does not believe in peace," Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi, one of the founders of Hamas, said. "The ceasefire is dead. There will be very strong retaliation."

After the Israeli army botched an attempt to kill Mr Rantissi in June, Hamas responded by bombing a bus in Jerusalem. But Israelis are bracing themselves for worse after Islamic Jihad and al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade also declared the ceasefire dead.

Israeli officials argued that the killing brightened peace prospects because it was the first step to the final destruction of the "terrorist organisations"....

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/690

That was a few years back. I can't see any improvement since then. Israel did get their civil war, but at the same time, they killed someone who might have been able to broker a peace deal.

My opinion is that neither side has a "right" to violence and neither side benefits from violence.

A Palestinian leader using non-violent means could have liberated Palestinians years ago with far fewer casualties by embarassing Israel into peace. Instead of RPGs, Palestinians should arm themselves with internet camera phones.

Israel could have ended this a long time ago. One of their leaders could have had the vision to use billions spent killing Palestinians and stealing their property, dignity and future to finance diplomatic/legal solutions which compensate Palestinians for their losses and recognize their nationhood.

Injustice and oppression leads to war.

Only justice and freedom will lead to peace.

Knowledge is power
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 24th, 2007 at 02:53 PM..
 
CDNBear
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Palestinians do find them insufferable. They have since 1948. It took until the 1960's to become violent. As time goes by they are getting angrier and better armed. Meanwhile the ethnic cleansing continues .

I was reading your post, though most of it is the same old same old, then that lil piece of crap flew up and hit me right in the face.

This is your whole problem, you refuse to acknowledge history and the facts...

Quote:

Israel was attacked on the same day it gained its independence – May 14th. The armies of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq attacked Israel. With such a combined force attacking Israel, few would have given the new country any chance of survival.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...e_1948_war.htm

But hey, like your signature says, "But I could be wrong", yep you are as always. You may want to change that siggy of yours to "But I would be wrong".

Thanx for all the laughs though, you and you deluded version of history, is hilarious.
 
earth_as_one
#8
Your lack of empathy for the suffering of others is underwhelming...

Quote:

The misleading story often told is that "Jews declared Israel and then they were attacked." The fact is from November 1947 to May 1948 the Zionists were already on the offensive and had already attacked Arabs. In the months before Israel was declared, the Zionists had driven 300,000 non-Jews off their land. In the months before Israel was declared, the Zionists had seized land beyond the proposed Jewish State. http://www.representativepress.org/IsraelHistory.html .

"The Zionists were by far the more powerful and better organized force, and by May 1948, when the state of Israel was formally established, about 300,000 Palestinians already had been expelled from their homes or had fled the fighting, and the Zionists controlled a region well beyond the area of the original Jewish state that had been proposed by the UN. 62 Now it's then that Israel was attacked by its neighbors - in May 1948; it's then, after the Zionists had taken control of this much larger part of the region and hundreds of thousands of civilians had been forced out, not before." pp. 131-132 Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky * See Footnote 62 below
Zionist forces had been planning their conquest of the Palestine for years and had the military advantage over the native inhabitants. Even before Zionists declared their "Jewish State of Israel" in May of 1948, Zionist armies had already seized land within areas of what the UN proposed for the Palestinian state and had already carried out terrorist attacks (including killing children) in order to ethnically cleanse areas. Writing about a December 18, 1947 terrorist attack killing civilians carried out by the Palmach - the kibbutz-based strike force of the Haganah (the Defense Force of the Jewish settlemetn in Palestine, the precursor of the IDF), Chomsky quotes Israeli military historian Uri Milshtein who wrote that Moshe Dayan justified the attack on the grounds that it had a " desirable effect. " Chomsky writes, "Sykes [ author of Crossroads to Israel] suggests that this opperation, three weeks before the first Arab irregulars entered the country, may have "percipitated the next phase of the war." p95 Fateful Triangle The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians The footnote for this says: "For a contemporary record of Irgun-LEHI terrorism in December 1947, see Peace in the Middle East?, pp.64-5, citing a report by the Council on Jewish-Arab Cooperation, which concludes that these actions were undertaken to create conflict in peaceful areas. See Towards a New Cold War pp. 464-5 and referances cited for additional examples of Zionist terrorism, including major masssacres. Little of this is known here; information appears in standard Israeli (Hebrew) sources.
" By May, its armies had taken over parts of the territory assigned to the Palestinian state. The Irgun-LEHI Deir Yassin massacre in April had already taken place, one major factor in causing the flight of much of the Arab population. This fact was reported with much enthusiasm in official statements of Irgun and LEHI, specifically, by the terrorist commander Menachem Begin, who took pride in the opperation in which some 250 defenseless people were slaughtered, including more than 100 women and children, with 4 killed among the attacking forces. Recently discovered personal testimonies of the leaders of the operation reveal that the majority favored eliminating whoever stood in their way, including women and children, and proceeded to do so, murdering captured and wounded. " p95 Fateful Triangle The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians
http://www.representativepress.org/Sources.html

Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 24th, 2007 at 04:54 PM..
 
CDNBear
#9
What does my sympathy/empathy have to do with facts earth as one?

I chose to examine facts with cold sterility. That way I won't end up like you. Sucked into the sadness and running on emotion only.

Oh boy, you sunk to an all time low, quoting Chomsky!!!

There was no Jewish state prior to May 14th, so there were no borders, there were no seperate states of Israel or Palestine. Any acts of aggression from any Jewish forces, ended there. As of May 14th, there was a Jewish state, a state Army and new political entity.

There was no other reason for the attack on Israel, especially when Palestine wasn't involved in the attack, and the attackers have never come to the aid of Palestine over occupation by Jordan or Syria. So your point is pure garbage, as is Chomsky.

If the attacks against Israel, past or present, from any force, are purely based on occupation, earth, then I would expect to see outrage over the occupation of Palestine by other Arab entities, we don't. That leads me to believe that the aggression is based on religion and the nazism, they and you express so well.

But you would be wrong.
 
I think not
#10
Earth as one, in your long cut and paste posts (as usual) villifying Israel as never wanting peace, you always fail to mention that Israel has made and KEPT peace with Egypt and Jordan.

Now go ahead and cut and paste some more.
 
CDNBear
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not View Post

Earth as one, in your long cut and paste posts (as usual) villifying Israel as never wanting peace, you always fail to mention that Israel has made and KEPT peace with Egypt and Jordan.

Now go ahead and cut and paste some more.

Ahhhh, but earth's arguement for that is, Egypt is an American puppet state. I'm not sure what he'll come up with for Jordan though. I think this should be interesting, .
 
Sparrow
#12
All this back and forth of who is to blame or who is more violent does nothing but polarize people to support one side or the other. This is what I mean when I say dragging the past along everyday is the real problem. Instead of using the past as an excuse for violence today use it to create a peace for tomorrow.

All this:
1-Your in my backyard.
2-No your in by backyard.
1-My father was here before yours.
2-No my father was here before yours.
1-I won't talk to you because I don't like your friends.
2-I won't talk to you because I don't like your friends.
1-My father is stronger than yours.
2-No my father is stronger than yours.
It is all so childish and what is the saddest is the cost is in lives on both sides.

As far as I am concerned special interests on both sides are fueling this fight.
 
earth_as_one
#13
Easy for you to say S, but how would you feel if millions of hostile and heavily armed foreigners showed up near where you live and proceeded to ethnically cleanse you and your neighbors off your land and take all your possessions because you aren't the same religion as they are?

If you found yourself and your children living on handouts amid the poverty and filth of a refugee camp where you have no country, no rights, no dignity and no hope for a better future, while the world did nothing but blame you for your situation, would you be angry?

How long would you tolerate this situation? If you had nothing to loose and nothihng to live for, would you be willing to fight for your rights, dignity and hope for a better future?

If a human being suffers injustice and oppression, I believe they have a right to fight for justice and freedom.

Quote:

How can the victims of oppression



oppress another people?
Desmond Tutu
Courtesy: Church Times
April 26, 2002


[Desmond Tutu is the former Archbishop of Cape Town and chairman of South Africa's truth and reconciliation commission. He is also a Nobel peace laureate. This address was given at a conference on Ending the Occupation held in Boston, Massachusetts, earlier this month. A longer version appears in the current edition of Church Times.]

GOD IS WEEPING over what he sees in the Middle East. God has no one except ourselves, absolutely no one. God is omnipotent, all-powerful, but also impotent. God does not dispatch lightning bolts to remove tyrants, as we might have hoped he would. God waits for you, for you to act. You are his partner. God is as weak as the weakest of his partners, or as strong as the morally strongest.

The title of my talk is "Occupation is Oppression." I would like to change that to "Give Peace a Chance, for Peace is Possible"; for we are bearers of hope. To God's people, Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs, we want to say: our hearts go out to all who have suffered the violence of suicide bombers and of military incursions. I want to say to all: peace is possible. These two peoples are God's chosen and beloved, with a common ancestor in Abraham.

I give thanks for what the Jews have given us. During apartheid we told our people God has heard their crying. And God will deliver us as God delivered Israel from bondage. God never abandoned us through tribulation and suffering.

IN OUR STRUGGLE against apartheid, the great supporters were the Jews. Jews almost instinctively had to be on the side of the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice, oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust centre in South Africa. I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.

What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to another people to guarantee its existence. I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us blacks in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about. They seemed to derive so much joy from our humiliation.

We know of the horrific attacks on refugee camps, towns, villages, and Palestinian institutions. We don't know the exact truth because Israelis won't let the media in. What are they hiding?

Perhaps more sinister is why is there no outcry in the United States about the Israeli siege in the West Bank? You see the harrowing images of what suicide bombers have done, something we all condemn, but we see no scenes of what the tanks are doing to Palestinian homes and people.

ON ONE of my visits to the Holy Land I drove to a church with the Anglican Bishop in Jerusalem. I could hear tears in his voice as he pointed to Jewish settlements. I thought of the desire of Israelis for security. But what of the Palestinians who have lost their land and their homes?

I have experienced Palestinians pointing to what were their homes, now occupied by Israeli Jews. I was walking with Canon Naim Ateek (the head of the Sabeel Ecumenical Centre) in Jerusalem. He pointed and said: "Our home was over there. We were driven out of our home; it is now occupied by Israeli Jews."

My heart aches. I say, why are our memories so short? Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?

Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured.

The military action of recent days, I predict with certainty, will not provide the security and peace Israelis want; it will only intensify the hatred.

ISRAEL has three options: revert to the previous stalemated situation; exterminate all Palestinians; or "and I hope this will be the road taken " to strive for peace based on justice, based on withdrawal from all the occupied territories, and the establishment of a viable Palestinian state on those territories side by side with Israel, both with secure borders.

We in South Africa had a relatively peaceful transition. If our madness could end as it did, it must be possible to do the same everywhere else in the world. South Africa is a beacon of hope for the rest of the world. If peace could come to South Africa, surely it can come to the Holy Land.

My brother Naim Ateek has said what we used to say: "I am not pro- this people or that. I am pro-justice, pro-freedom. I am anti-injustice, anti-oppression."

But you know as well as I do that, somehow, the Israeli government is placed on a pedestal [in the US], and to criticise it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic, as if the Palestinians were not Semitic. I am not even anti-white, despite the madness of that group. And how did it come about that Israel was collaborating with the apartheid government on security measures?

People are scared in this country [the US] to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful " very powerful. Well, so what? This is God's world. For goodness sake, this is God's world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosovic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust.

Injustice and oppression will never prevail. Those who are powerful have to remember the litmus test that God gives to the powerful: What is your treatment of the poor, the hungry, the voiceless? And on the basis of that, God passes judgement.

We should put out a clarion call to the government of the people of Israel, to the Palestinian people and say: peace is possible, peace based on justice is possible. We will do all we can to assist you to achieve this peace, because it is God's dream, and you will be able to live amicably together as sisters and brothers.

This address was given by Dr Desmond Tutu, the former Archbishop of Cape Town, at a conference on "Ending the Occupation" held in Boston, Massachusetts, on 13 April.

http://www.globalwebpost.com/farooqm...heid_tutu3.htm

These are some of the people Tutu refers to:

Quote:

WHO LIVES IN JENIN REFUGEE CAMP?
A BRIEF STATISTICAL PROFILE

By Rita Giacaman and Penny Johnson
Birzeit University, 14 April 2002.


Two Palestinian women walk through the rubble of homes destroyed by Israeli defense forces in the Jenin refugee camp, Thursday, April 11, 2002. A round the clock curfew was lifted for three hours, to allow the remaining residents to resupply with food and water. The Jenin refugee camp has been the scene of the heaviest fighting between Israeli forces and Palestinian gunmen. (AP Photo/Jerome Delay)
Introduction

The international media has begun to show some of the tragic human consequences of Israel's assault on Jenin refugee camp: from one BBC report alone images flash of an old woman in a wheelchair abandoned in a field, dislocated families streaming towards neighboring villages, a woman weeping by the roadside for her husband shot while tending sheep, an injured man huddling in bed surrounded by his family who has called repeatedly for am ambulance [1].Yet Israeli officials persist in a rhetoric that brands Jenin refugee camp as a "terrorist camp," with its all of its inhabitants, men, women and children of any age, thus also marked as terrorists and all actions taken against them thus justified...

http://electronicintifada.net/forref...jenincamp.html

Each day Israel demolishes a few more homes, confiscates a little more land and kills a few more Palestinians. Its been going on for 60 years. If this was happening to you, would you resist?

Quote:

VI. CIVILIAN CASUALTIES AND UNLAWFUL KILLINGS IN JENIN

During its investigation, Human Rights Watch found serious violations of international humanitarian law. The organization documented fifty-two Palestinian deaths in the camp and its environs caused by the fighting. At least twenty-two of those confirmed dead were civilians, including children, physically disabled, and elderly people....

VII. HUMAN SHIELDING AND THE USE OF CIVILIANS FOR MILITARY PURPOSES

IDF soldiers in Jenin engaged in the practice of human shielding, forcing Palestinian civilians to serve as "shields" to protect them from Palestinian militants. The practice of human shielding is specifically outlawed by international humanitarian law. The in inappropriate use of civilians for other military purposes was also widespread during the IDF operation in Jenin....

http://hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/

Sixty Years of ongoing Ethnic Cleansing continues:
Quote:

Razing Rafah:
Mass Home Demolitions in the Gaza Strip


These houses should have been demolished and evacuated a long time ago … Three hundred meters of the Strip along the two sides of the border must be evacuated … Three hundred meters, no matter how many houses, period.
—Major-General Yom-Tov Samiya, former head of IDF Southern Command 1

I built homes for Israelis for 13 years. I never thought the day would come when they’d destroy my house. … They destroyed the future. How can I start all over now?
— Isbah al-Tayour, Rafah resident, former construction worker in Israel 2
Over the past four years, the Israeli military has demolished over 2,500 Palestinian houses in the occupied Gaza Strip. 3 Nearly two-thirds of these homes were in Rafah, a densely populated refugee camp and city at the southern end of the Gaza Strip on the border with Egypt. Sixteen thousand people — more than ten percent of Rafah’s population — have lost their homes, most of them refugees, many of whom were dispossessed for a second or third time. 4
As satellite images in this report show, most of the destruction in Rafah occurred along the Israeli-controlled border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt. During regular nighttime raids and with little or no warning, Israeli forces used armored Caterpillar D9 bulldozers to raze blocks of homes at the edge of the camp, incrementally expanding a “buffer zone” that is currently up to three hundred meters wide. The pattern of destruction strongly suggests that Israeli forces demolished homes wholesale, regardless of whether they posed a specific threat, in violation of international law. In most of the cases Human Rights Watch found the destruction was carried out in the absence of military necessity.
In May 2004, the Israeli government approved a plan to further expand the buffer zone, and it is currently deliberating the details of its execution. The Israeli military has recommended demolishing all homes within three hundred meters of its positions, or about four hundred meters from the border. Such destruction would leave thousands more Palestinians homeless in one of the most densely populated places on earth. Perhaps in recognition of the plan’s legal deficiencies, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are not waiting for the government to approve the plan. Ongoing incursions continue to eat away at Rafah’s edge...

http://hrw.org/campaigns/gaza/

Quote:

With U.S. secretary of state visiting, Israel seeks builders for West Bank settlement

The Associated Press
Published: January 15, 2007



JERUSALEM: The Israeli government on Monday published plans to build 44 homes in Israel's largest West Bank settlement, violating a pledge to the United States as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was in the region on a peace-seeking mission.
The Housing Ministry published ads in Israeli newspapers asking developers to bid on the construction project in Maaleh Adumim, a community of more than 30,000 people outside Jerusalem.
Freezing settlement construction in the West Bank is a key element of the long-stalled "road map" plan for Mideast peace, which both Israel and Rice championed vigorously in public statements during her three-day visit that ended Monday.
U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, who was traveling with Rice, said he wasn't aware of the bid. But he added: "Our policy hasn't changed."
In a published interview, Rice expressed general U.S. displeasure with settlement expansion....

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...ettlements.php

Do you believe Rice's expression of displeasure will have any effect on Israel's plans to force more Palestinians out of their homes, so they can be razed to make way for more Jewish only colonies?

In the map below, blue/green areas are expanding Jewish only colonies. Orange/red areas are shrinking Palestinian areas.

Quote:

Israeli Settlements on Occupied Palestinian Territories

Originally the term described any new Jewish development in Israel, but now settlements usually refers to Jewish-only housing units scattered around East Jerusalem and other strategic areas throughout the West Bank and Gaza. Since the beginning of the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories in 1967, consecutive Israeli governments have established settlements in violation of international law. Many say that the motive behind Israel building such settlements is to colonize the Palestinian territories, in order to consolidate and secure Israeli control of the areas and prevent the emergence of a Palestinian state. This colonization process is the most visible aspect of Zionism and has been equally ferocious during Labour and Likud governments...

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/fact...n_occupied.htm

This is NOT a historical event. Its current and ongoing.

The only other alternative to resistance is acceptance that Palestinians will loose nearly everything they once had and they and their descendants can anticipate a life inside walled in concentration camp complete with guard towers.

Quote:

The Wall

Since September 2000, the beginning of the second Intifada (Palestinian uprising), violence between Palestinians and Israelis has increased to an unprecedented level. Since June 2002, Israel has been building a wall inside the West Bank citing security reasons. However, because of its location and the impact this structure has on the Palestinian residents of the West Bank, the Wall is a violation of international law and Palestinian human rights...
http://www.afsc.org/israel-palestine/learn/wall.htm

Put yourself in a Palestinian refugee shoes for a minute. Try to imagine their viewpoint.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 25th, 2007 at 08:43 PM..
 
Sparrow
#14
EARTH AS ONE
Well I can see you don't understand my message. All this began many years ago in Europe, transplanted to what we know as Israel today (your in my backyard) .
Israelis say the land had always belonged to them and the Palestinian say the same (my father was here before your father ).
Israel feels it is justified in not talking with the Palestinian Gov. because of Fatah and Hamas factions in the gov., and for a long time Arafat refused to talk with the Israelis also because he didn't like their friends (I won't talk to you because I don't like your friends ).
Israel because of US weaponry and backing feel they can (defend themselves) so anything they see fit (my father is stronger than your father ).
Both sides have felt justified in their perpetration of this war over the years, but no one has thought of the suffering and the cost in blood and death the innocent have had to pay.
This has been going on for too long without being checked, that is why there is some special interest that is getting something in return.
 
CDNBear
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Easy for you to say S, but how would you feel if millions of hostile and heavily armed foreigners showed up near where you live and proceeded to ethnically cleanse you and your neighbors off your land and take all your possessions because you aren't the same religion as they are?

Oh oh oh oh oh, I know the answer, I'ld be pissed, I'ld also be a Native Canadian/American.

Can you and your fellow religous zealots leave now???

You've herded and slaughtered enough of us, we're tired of the refugee camps you call reservations.

CAN WE HAVE OUR LAND BACK NOW!!!
 
earth_as_one
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post

EARTH AS ONE
Well I can see you don't understand my message. All this began many years ago in Europe, transplanted to what we know as Israel today (your in my backyard) .
Israelis say the land had always belonged to them and the Palestinian say the same (my father was here before your father ).
Israel feels it is justified in not talking with the Palestinian Gov. because of Fatah and Hamas factions in the gov., and for a long time Arafat refused to talk with the Israelis also because he didn't like their friends (I won't talk to you because I don't like your friends ).
Israel because of US weaponry and backing feel they can (defend themselves) so anything they see fit (my father is stronger than your father ).
Both sides have felt justified in their perpetration of this war over the years, but no one has thought of the suffering and the cost in blood and death the innocent have had to pay.
This has been going on for too long without being checked, that is why there is some special interest that is getting something in return.

What Jews and Christians believe about the ancestry of Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany is beside the point. (my father was here before your father).

European Jewish refugess fled Europe because of events in Europe, not Palestine. Before Zionism, Palestine was about as Jewish as Manhattan.

Quote:

...In 1850 these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians, and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80 percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish...

...the UN decided to give away 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state — despite the fact that this group represented only about 30 percent of the total population, and owned under 7 percent of the land...

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

When the people without land arrived in Palestine, they found a land full of people.

Quote:

Father Rantisi: He was born in Lyda, now the site of Ben Gurion Airport, in 1937.

I cannot forget three horror-filled days in July of 1948. The pain sears my memory, and I cannot rid myself of it no matter how hard I try.

First, Israeli soldiers forced thousands of Palestinians from their homes near the Mediterranean coast, even though some families had lived in the same houses for centuries. (My family had been in the town of Lydda in Palestine at least 1,600 years). Then, without water, we stumbled into the hills and continued for three deadly days. The Jewish soldiers followed, occasionally shooting over our heads to scare us and keep us moving. Terror filled my eleven-year-old mind as I wondered what would happen. I remembered overhearing my father and his friends express alarm about recent massacres by Jewish terrorists. Would they kill us, too?
We did not know what to do, except to follow orders and stumble blindly up the rocky hills. I walked hand in hand with my grandfather, who carried our only remaining possessions-a small tin of sugar and some milk for my aunt's two-year-old son, sick with typhoid.


http://www.alnakba.org/testimony/audeh.htm

The Nakba or Catastrophe is still in the news archives and even many Israeli historians like Benny Morris have documented it in their research of Israeli archives:

Quote:

...Since Israel's inception, the young nation has tried to control the telling of its story, a chronicle of genocide survivors bravely defending their right to return to and settle their ancestral lands. In the official version of Israel's founding war, taught for decades in school textbooks, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled their homes on the orders of Arab leaders and military commanders.
Morris, emerging two decades ago at the head of a group of guerrilla scholars known as the "new historians," told another, more complex story excavated from the state's official archives. He concluded that although many Palestinians did choose to leave their homes, Jewish forces also conducted an orchestrated campaign to expel them, sometimes brutally, to make way for a Jewish state...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...001496_pf.html

Quote:

Israel Revisited
Benny Morris, Veteran 'New Historian' of the Modern Jewish State's Founding, Finds Himself Ideologically Back Where It All Began

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, March 11, 2007


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...001496_pf.html

The pictures still exist.
Quote:



Refugees being forced out of their villages (near Lod and Ramla). "Nakba in Pictures"



1948 UNRWA photo




Israeli soldiers looting an unidentified Jerusalem area Palestinian village in 1948. GPO/AIC photo.



Palestinian refugees separated from their home by the "green line". 1948 UNRWA photo



Israeli Soldiers in abandoned Palestinian home in Qatamoun, West Jerusalem, in 1948. GPO/AIC Photo.

I find it difficult to believe that a God would grant one person another person's land, home, farm, bank account, furniture, jewelry, family portraits... because they are a "chosen" people.

Sounds like a load of BS to justify what would otherwise be clearly unjustifiable.

Not only was this obviously immoral and wrong, but I also question the longterm wisdom (in these days of ICBMs) of creating a "Jewish Only" zone by pissing off all of the neighbors.

Here is a map with the details:

http://www.palestineremembered.com/A...Story1261.html

What do the great books say about living by the sword?
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 26th, 2007 at 08:39 PM..
 
earth_as_one
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Oh oh oh oh oh, I know the answer, I'ld be pissed, I'ld also be a Native Canadian/American.

Can you and your fellow religous zealots leave now???

You've herded and slaughtered enough of us, we're tired of the refugee camps you call reservations.

CAN WE HAVE OUR LAND BACK NOW!!!

What you propose is to create new injustices in order to compensate for past injustices. That's how we find ourselves in this situation today.

I agree that first nation's people have rights the rest of us immigrants don't and that is also the position of the Canadian government. Unlike Canada's First Nations, Palestinians don't have special rights to health care, education, natural resources, trade or even have the same charter rights as ordinary Canadians. Instead Palestinians have no rights, because they cannot claim citizenship of any country.

Within a generation, what the world used to call Palestine and now calls Israel and the occupied territories, will simply be known as Israel. The people born in Israel's concentration camps will be simlpy be known as terrorists and criminals. Otherwise how could you justify locking up innocent men, women and children?

I would not be in favor of treating Canada's First Nations People as poorly as Israel treats their indigeonous people. But if you think that this is right CB, then you are welcome to turn over all your possessions to Canadian government for the benefit of Canada's immigrants.
 
CDNBear
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

But if you think that this is right CB, then you are welcome to turn over all your possessions to Canadian government for the benefit of Canada's immigrants.

My ancestors already did...

 
earth_as_one
#19
First Nations people have special rights other Canadians don't have. In exchange for peace, First Nations people recieve free health care, education and social welfare. First Nation people have the same rights as other Canadians plus they also have special rights regarding land, natural resources and trade.

Seems to me Canada's First Nation's people do not suffer overt injustice or oppression and that we live together peacefully enough, although there is still a lot of room for improvenment. In my opinion, the Assembly of First Nations should have powers equal to provinces. Many First Nations still have not signed treaties with Canada.

Did any of your ancestors sign any of these treaties?

http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/pr/trts/h...trindex_e.html

http://www.kahonwes.com/iroquois/iroquois.html

CB, are you self employed bow hunter or subsistence farmer? Have you benefitted from European contact in any way?

Palestinians would be much better off if they had the same rights as the people of Canada's First Nations.
 
hermanntrude
#20
I admit i did feel a little annoyed when we discovered that my wife is living on a reserve where it is normal to fly pregnant women to edmonton for an ultrasound, but wouldn't be given the same treatment. She has to make the 12 hour drive across a river which may or may not be entirely frozen and through foot-deep mud to get there herself.
 
CDNBear
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_one View Post

Did any of your ancestors sign any of these treaties?

http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/pr/trts/h...trindex_e.html

http://www.kahonwes.com/iroquois/iroquois.html

Yes, and they have not fully been honoured either. Or did you miss Oka, Caledonia?
Our missing money, stolen by gov't agents.
Quote:

CB, are you self employed bow hunter or subsistence farmer?

Self employed and I bow hunt and fly and drift fish.
Quote:

Have you benefitted from European contact in any way?

Depends on what you see as benefitial, would I rather be living in off the land? Yep. Is that practical in this day and age? Nope.
Quote:

Palestinians would be much better off if they had the same rights as the people of Canada's First Nations.

They could likely get some of the same rights and treaties if they tossed out the professional aggitators and stopped launching rockets into Israel. D'uh.
 
earth_as_one
#22
You may be right... but that's an issue between Queen Elizabeth of Canada and the Assembly of First Nations. Mind you she could delegate it down to the Governor General...

Meanwhile what do you think about tranferring Palestinians out of the occupied territories?

Quote:

More Israeli Jews favor transfer of Palestinians, Israeli Arabs - poll findsBy Amnon Barzilai Some 46 percent of Israel's Jewish citizens favor transferring Palestinians out of the territories, while 31 percent favor transferring Israeli Arabs out of the country, according to the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies' annual national security public opinion poll.

In 1991, 38 percent of Israel's Jewish population was in favor of transferring the Palestinians out of the territories while 24 percent supported transferring Israeli Arabs.

When the question of transfer was posed in a more roundabout way, 60 percent of respondents said that they were in favor of encouraging Israeli Arabs to leave the country. The results of the survey also reveal that 24 percent of Israel's Jewish citizens believe that Israeli Arabs are not loyal to the state, compared to 38 percent who think the Arabs were loyal to the state at the beginning of the intifada.

The poll, overseen by Prof. Asher Arian, also finds that Jewish public opinion is Israel has become more extreme on issues of foreign affairs and defense as well as on possible concessions by Israel during peace talks in particular.

A representative sample of 1,264 Jewish residents of Israel were polled for the survey last month in face-to-face interviews.

Israeli-Arabs pose a threat to Israel's security, according to 61 percent of the Jewish population, while around 80 percent are opposed to Israeli-Arabs being involved in important decisions, such as delineating the country's borders, up from 75 percent last year and 67 percent in 2000.

Some 72 percent of Jewish Israelis are opposed to Arab parties being part of a coalition government, compared to 67 percent last year and 50 percent in 1999...

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages...ubContrassID=0




Quote:

Transfer Whom?

Boris Shusteff July 13, 2004

Few will argue with the assertion that today we live in an age of political correctness. Nevertheless, let us try to free ourselves from this preconceived notion and soberly observe the situation. Whether we like it or not, among all the different solutions available for resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict, we must consider the option of Arab transfer. It is quite possible that transferring the Arabs out of the West Bank, Gaza and Israel proper can cut the Gordian knot of the unending conflict once and for all.
Why transfer? From Israel’s standpoint, the answer is simple. It is a very realistic way to separate the Jews from the Arabs. It is an extremely painful and at the same time very pragmatic method by which the Arabs themselves will bear the consequences of their wild hatred of Jews and their non-acceptance of Israel. It is an excellent way to preserve Israel as a Jewish state. And perhaps most importantly, it is the only solution that can have a long-lasting effect, thus enabling peace. ....

http://www.gamla.org.il/english/arti...04/july/b1.htm

Is this a good idea?

Why or why not?
Last edited by earth_as_one; Mar 28th, 2007 at 09:12 PM..
 

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