Bashing America: Why Freedom Must be Defended


I think not
#1
This was written before the Iraq War.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Patriots are those who love America enough to wish to see her as a model to mankind," said Adlai Stevenson, who ran for and lost the presidency twice, and served as our ambassador to the United Nations during the Cold War.

America is, without doubt, the most dominant nation and culture of our times. What happens here affects the lives of people all over the world. Our movies, television, music, and lifestyle are seen and heard all over the world. News of what happens here is news everywhere else in the world.

I have never been one of those people who think America is right all the time. In the 1960s, I marched for civil rights for black Americans and in the 1970s I marched to end the Vietnam War. I have opposed the Bush administration's immigration policies, its education policies, its failure to end the government's continuing grabbing of more and more property, and some of its environmental policies.

That said, I have never lost sight of the fact that, for all its failings, this is still the single, lone beacon of freedom in the world. Proof of that can be seen in how many foreigners yearn to come here and enjoy our legacy of liberty and the opportunity to enjoy personal success.

I say this because I have just finished reading a book by Mark Hertsgaard, "The Eagle's Shadow: Why America Fascinates and Infuriates the World." If ever a book was published with a succession of bad intentions toward this nation, at the worst possible time, it is this one. While giving a nod to our virtues, the book is one, long screed about what America is doing wrong.

Hertsgaard criticizes Americans for not realizing "how poor most other people in the world are." I think he's wrong. We do know how poor they are and, for those who do not go beyond this, they wonder why.

The reason is that in most nations around the world, despite the enormous natural resources they may have, they are led by dictators and other forms of despotism that plunder their nation's wealth while doing nothing to build its infrastructure and encouraging their business and industrial community to prosper. Instead, bribery and corruption is the rule, destroying opportunity at every turn.

At one point, the author acknowledges, "It took the United States just a century and a quarter after its founding in 1776 to become the largest economy in the world," but he does not seem to understand why. The answer is freedom. In that period, Americans were not burdened with a huge federal government that regulates every aspect of the economy and our personal lives. Americans were not so harshly taxed that nearly one half of every dollar we earn is taken for redistribution programs at the local, state and federal
level.

"Relatively few of those I have met seem to resent America's wealth," notes the author without understanding that everyone instinctively understands that individual work should yield a measure of personal wealth. Instead, he blames America for our high rate of consumption, despite the fact that energy unused is energy wasted. Nor does he understand that capitalism is based on risk as well as reward.

The number of business ventures that fail each year in America is astonishing. As far as the author is concerned, America is "an environmental renegade." This is ironic because, being a wealthy nation, we gave birth to the entire environmental movement, spawning laws to clean the air, the water, and even protect so-called endangered species. The entire notion of putting aside huge areas of land as protected national forests for both public and private use began here in America.

As we learned from the recent United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development, the intent of environmentalists is to keep poor countries poor and deprive vast populations throughout the world of the benefits of electricity, which is vital to growth.

America, says the author, is seen by foreigners as "a trigger-happy bully that is both out for itself and full of itself." Tell that to the Afghans now free of the Taliban, which would not permit them to see a movie or visit a barbershop to have their beards trimmed or a beauty salon where their women can get their hair styled. Women in Afghanistan were, like those in Saudi Arabia, not permitted to leave their homes without a male relative as an escort. Throughout the world of Islam, those pushing for its reform are often its women.

Hertsgaard criticizes "our self-serving definition of terrorism." Tell that to the families of those killed in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or the families of those who died on the USS Cole. Instead, his blindness is seen in his repeat of the lie that the Israelis attacked Palestinian refuge camps in April 2002, not to defend themselves against a succession of murder-suicides in their streets, but as an act of terrorism. Apparently, to
this author and other liberals, self-defense against terrorism is indefensible.

Whatever lies ahead in Iraq and elsewhere in the world is pure self-defense. As the insanity of the global Jihad spreads, more nations will come to understand why America is girding up to fight and they, too, will join that fight.

America will lead that fight because we are the only nation that can; the only nation with the will and the power to do so. Islam is not, nor ever was, a religion of peace. It was spread by the sword and it lives by the sword. It teaches hatred of the non-believer and it does not even protect its own believers against the assaults of its evil core of men who yearn for a world that never was and must never be.

America has always been about freedom. Despite our flawed history - slavery, our treatment of American Indians, our failure to initially grant suffrage to women, our internment of Japanese-American citizens during WWII - we have fought hard to correct these failures. We fought those who would enslave other nations and then we helped rebuild the nations of our former enemies. Our soldiers, sailors, and airmen are stationed in more than a hundred nations throughout the world to insure that the enemies of freedom will not succeed.

I suggest this is not a time for bashing America. This is a time to recognize and celebrate our commitment to freedom and, like our Founding Fathers, that we pledge our lives, our property, and our sacred honor to advance freedom throughout the world.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCommentar...20021030e.html
 
jimmoyer
#2
Good article ITN.

I don't even care who wrote it.

Or who condemns the author.

Or who condemns the source of the publication.

When the world stands by waiting for HYPOCRITICAL
AMERICA to do something about Dafur, or even committing amnesia on the decades long destruction
of Chechnya, the world might get some more guts
to take a stand.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#3
" I suggest this is not a time for bashing America. This is a time to recognize and celebrate our commitment to freedom and, like our Founding Fathers, that we pledge our lives, our property, and our sacred honor to advance freedom throughout the world."

ITN this article is intended for an American audience, no one else in the world will believe it. You have never advanced anyones freedom except your own. And what is your sacred honor.
 
jimmoyer
#4
I have never been one of those people who think America is right all the time. In the 1960s, I marched for civil rights for black Americans and in the 1970s I marched to end the Vietnam War. I have opposed the Bush administration's immigration policies, its education policies, its failure to end the government's continuing grabbing of more and more property, and some of its environmental policies.
--------------------------------------------------------

The above is another excerpt of that article.

You can't fool Darkbeaver.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#5
America, the lady doth protest too much , methinks.
 
jimmoyer
#6
You can't fool Darkbeaver.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#7
I bet you can fool me JimMoyer but not about America and that's a problem you have with most of the world, you should not worry to much about the DarkBeaver you should worry about the ones like me who are Americans, do you know what happens to intellectuals in religious fanatic fascist states JimMoyer I should think you would worry about the summer camps your government is building more than a mouthy make believe rodent. What are you doing here, you have your finger in a dam trying to stem the flow of anti-american talk, why not find a nice pro-american site where you can bask in self adulation.
 
jimmoyer
#8
Is that the advice you would follow, darkbeaver ?
Find a site that thinks and speaks like you?
Are you promoting a Stepford Wife world here?

I like to be around those who disagree, and their
ferocity in promoting their viewpoint is a good test
for me.

Like I say, your behavior is just like the hardened
behavior of the rightwingers, consistent, without
nuance, without any ounce of the eclectic, pounding
the drum with the same mantra, and like them, you
will explain that your attitude is because of someone
else's behavior, ie George Bush, or the American
people.

The details are always too contradictory
to support either your hardened view or the rightwing's
hardened view.
 
aeon
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Is that the advice you would follow, darkbeaver ?
Find a site that thinks and speaks like you?
Are you promoting a Stepford Wife world here?

I like to be around those who disagree, and their
ferocity in promoting their viewpoint is a good test
for me.

Like I say, your behavior is just like the hardened
behavior of the rightwingers, consistent, without
nuance, without any ounce of the eclectic, pounding
the drum with the same mantra, and like them, you
will explain that your attitude is because of someone
else's behavior, ie George Bush, or the American
people.

The details are always too contradictory
to support either your hardened view or the rightwing's
hardened view.


So you claim to be not a right winger, but you still support us presence in iraq,even though we know the lies about it, and more importantly knowing for a fact that the world is way less secure since the invasion, still support self-defenc retarded claim, even though we know it is illegal,if you consider yourself as being at the center damn, what kind of right winger there is in the states??, people who are ready to use nuclear weapons on everybody head, to secure their interest?? or an extension group of the KKK??
 
Hank C
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by aeon

Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Is that the advice you would follow, darkbeaver ?
Find a site that thinks and speaks like you?
Are you promoting a Stepford Wife world here?

I like to be around those who disagree, and their
ferocity in promoting their viewpoint is a good test
for me.

Like I say, your behavior is just like the hardened
behavior of the rightwingers, consistent, without
nuance, without any ounce of the eclectic, pounding
the drum with the same mantra, and like them, you
will explain that your attitude is because of someone
else's behavior, ie George Bush, or the American
people.

The details are always too contradictory
to support either your hardened view or the rightwing's
hardened view.


So you claim to be not a right winger, but you still support us presence in iraq,even though we know the lies about it, and more importantly knowing for a fact that the world is way less secure since the invasion, still support self-defenc retarded claim, even though we know it is illegal,if you consider yourself as being at the center damn, what kind of right winger there is in the states??, people who are ready to use nuclear weapons on everybody head, to secure their interest?? or an extension group of the KKK??

Lots of people did not support entering into the Iraq war from the outset but still support troops and the effort because we are already there and might as well attempt to finish. Most of these people would rather not see the situation get worse so they can sit there with their arms crossed with a stupid grin on their face saying "i told you so".....there are idiots out there who want to see a civil war and hence use the term at the drop of a hat because it helps prove their point against the US.
 
jimmoyer
#11
Aeon, you're too ruled and obsessed by your passion
about American wrong, to even care about anything
else, particularly whether Iraq succeeds in a viable
peaceful way.

Too bad that Iraq's success little rules the world's
passion.
 
Lotuslander
#12
Quote:

That said, I have never lost sight of the fact that, for all its failings, this is still the single, lone beacon of freedom in the world.

The single lone beacon of freedom in the world? That phrase describes in so few words the reasoning and disdain many have for America. What arragonace! What Xenophobia! What disregard for their fellow nations! Give me a break you act like you invented democracy! Instead I sometimes question whether you actually have democracy. America is a wonderful country but, it would do well to stop looking inwards so often and start looking outwards with greater frequency. I have often found in my own relations with Americans (and I realise I am generalising and stereotyping here) that most are inadequately educated about the history, geography, and politics of other nations. Indeed, it seems to me that the only history, geography or civics which Americans learn about in school is that of their own nation. My sister spent 3 years in private school down in the states (grades 10, 11, 12) during that time she did not once learn about other nations, Greek history, Roman, British, French. Indeed, history for her began at Plymouth's Rock. Don't get me wrong American kids should learn about American history but, they should also learn about global history and other cultures, this will make them better citizens. It is disgraceful that only 1% of Americans can name the PM of Canada and only 3% can name the President of Mexico, I don;t think the numbers should be in the high 90% range but it should be in the mid 40s or 50s that at least would be respectful to by far and away Americas two most important trading partners and suppliers of oil.
 
jimmoyer
#13
Well, the single beacon statement is something I
wouldn't use either, but I think the author uses it
because it seems no nation has the guts to make
a stand, nor does any nation want to give up the
comforts of its righteousness to shed the blood of
its sons and daughters, but they will follow the
egotistical America after the fact in broken Yugoslavia
and Afghanistan.

Europe did not enter the slaughter in the Balkans
with any military teeth until 8 years into it, and only
after America played bad cop and bombed the crap
of the Serbian capital.

And only after America bombed Afghanistan dirt,
would it come in afterwards and take over the operation.

Because for all the moral pontificating of the world,
there sits Dafur waiting for someone to take the lead.

Yes we all tut tut each other in our righteousness,
don't we ?

No, I would disagree with the author on the "single
beacon."

But reread the post, for the author did have great
disagreement with issues in America.

Step back and look at the whole of the article, rather
than the strike and pounce aspect that describes
all righteous indignation.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

" I suggest this is not a time for bashing America. This is a time to recognize and celebrate our commitment to freedom and, like our Founding Fathers, that we pledge our lives, our property, and our sacred honor to advance freedom throughout the world."

ITN this article is intended for an American audience, no one else in the world will believe it. You have never advanced anyones freedom except your own. And what is your sacred honor.

A short list of the nations that have had their freedom "advanced" by the United States of America....

Great Britain

Belguim

France

The Netherlands

Germany

Denmark

Norway

Austria

Hungary

Japan

the Philippines

South Korea

Israel

Afghanistan

And more I can't think of at 5 AM after a 13 hour shift.
 
twotoques
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Step back and look at the whole of the article, rather
than the strike and pounce aspect that describes
all righteous indignation.

OK....

what a load of crap.
 
Jay
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Lotuslander

Quote:

That said, I have never lost sight of the fact that, for all its failings, this is still the single, lone beacon of freedom in the world.

The single lone beacon of freedom in the world? That phrase describes in so few words the reasoning and disdain many have for America. What arragonace! What Xenophobia! What disregard for their fellow nations! Give me a break you act like you invented democracy! Instead I sometimes question whether you actually have democracy. America is a wonderful country but, it would do well to stop looking inwards so often and start looking outwards with greater frequency. I have often found in my own relations with Americans (and I realise I am generalising and stereotyping here) that most are inadequately educated about the history, geography, and politics of other nations. Indeed, it seems to me that the only history, geography or civics which Americans learn about in school is that of their own nation. My sister spent 3 years in private school down in the states (grades 10, 11, 12) during that time she did not once learn about other nations, Greek history, Roman, British, French. Indeed, history for her began at Plymouth's Rock. Don't get me wrong American kids should learn about American history but, they should also learn about global history and other cultures, this will make them better citizens. It is disgraceful that only 1% of Americans can name the PM of Canada and only 3% can name the President of Mexico, I don;t think the numbers should be in the high 90% range but it should be in the mid 40s or 50s that at least would be respectful to by far and away Americas two most important trading partners and suppliers of oil.

But lets not forget that polls done by the CBC a few years back asking Canadians who their head of state was and only a few people knew the answer to the question. It's like the other poll asking them about left and right politics, and low and behold Canadians don't know their left from their right.

I don't think we should get too excited about what Americans know about other countries when we don't know about ourselves.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Well, the single beacon statement is something I
wouldn't use either, but I think the author uses it
because it seems no nation has the guts to make
a stand, nor does any nation want to give up the
comforts of its righteousness to shed the blood of
its sons and daughters, but they will follow the
egotistical America after the fact in broken Yugoslavia
and Afghanistan.

Europe did not enter the slaughter in the Balkans
with any military teeth until 8 years into it, and only
after America played bad cop and bombed the crap
of the Serbian capital.

And only after America bombed Afghanistan dirt,
would it come in afterwards and take over the operation.

Because for all the moral pontificating of the world,
there sits Dafur waiting for someone to take the lead.

Yes we all tut tut each other in our righteousness,
don't we ?

No, I would disagree with the author on the "single
beacon."

But reread the post, for the author did have great
disagreement with issues in America.

Step back and look at the whole of the article, rather
than the strike and pounce aspect that describes
all righteous indignation.

I heard Ronald Moron Reagan use the phrase "America, last bastion of Freedom" his audiance included every other free nation in the world, we are used to imperial pronounsments, the delivery of self evident truth via the mouths of the decadent greedy slobs that run your corrupt empire.
You have constantly pleaded with us to applaud what you see as Americas nobel work in Iraq, you consistantly point at Saddam as the the malignant source of all misery in that land and some how guilty of every death and every burned building even to this day,this is an evil in you JimMoyer you blindly circumvent reality to hold the illusion of America firm in your mind, you give America a conscience it doe's not have, you see heroics we see cowardace, you see freedom we see chains, you see fairy tales we see history,
you are the problem with America, you support niether the left nor the right nor the middle, no common boots for you, you're above the fray you say, but your words betray your love of George W Bush and minions, you sleep with him, you are a consort of rot.
 
aeon
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyer

Aeon, you're too ruled and obsessed by your passion
about American wrong, to even care about anything
else, particularly whether Iraq succeeds in a viable
peaceful way.

Too bad that Iraq's success little rules the world's
passion.


Iraq will never be a succes, just for one reason, cause usa and the whole coalition of the moron arent there to make it a succes, and the iraqies knows it.they are there to pump the oil for their coorporation, i am not stupid enough to believe they are there for peace or for the freedom, facts doesnt support that claim.

I only care about iraqies in this situation, why?? because they have suffered enough from our(west) stupidity, bomb raid,both gulf wars, iran-iraq wars, sanctions, the deadly occupation of iraq, and not to count the crazy moron saddam , which was again supported by the great west.LETS GIVE THEM A BREAK DAMN IT.
 
Lotuslander
#19
jay wrote:

Quote:

But lets not forget that polls done by the CBC a few years back asking Canadians who their head of state was and only a few people knew the answer to the question. It's like the other poll asking them about left and right politics, and low and behold Canadians don't know their left from their right.

I don't think we should get too excited about what Americans know about other countries when we don't know about ourselves.

Well, that is a good point. I didn't meant to be so tough on the ole' US of A. Not such a bad palce really. Good people, great food, the most boring national sport in the world, but, the sceneary is spectacular and it is a wonderful place to visit. I suppose everywhere, even Canada, could use some improvement. However, from a personal and family experience I think that the US public school system could be dramatically improved especially for the poor. And why are people so God damn religious down there? I am all for religion if that is what you're into but, I think this craze really has to stop! Banning abortion in South Dakota is one thing because at least it is a moral issue (though personally I'm pro-choice) but, creationism in Kansas? Completely ridiculous! Instead of being laughed off and treated as nuts who have absolutely no proof and a rather shaky theory there is a whole movement behind creationism with millions of adherants. How could anyone in good conscience teach crearionism in a science classrooom? Science being based upon reason, logic, observation, and experimentation. Creationism based upon; theory and faith!
In any case at least New york is normal!
 
jimmoyer
#20
Iraq will never be a succes, just for one reason, cause usa and the whole coalition of the moron arent there to make it a succes, and the iraqies knows it.they are there to pump the oil for their coorporation, i am not stupid enough to believe they are there for peace or for the freedom, facts doesnt support that claim.

I only care about iraqies in this situation, why?? because they have suffered enough from our(west) stupidity, bomb raid,both gulf wars, iran-iraq wars, sanctions, the deadly occupation of iraq, and not to count the crazy moron saddam , which was again supported by the great west.LETS GIVE THEM A BREAK DAMN IT.
------------------------------Aeon--------------------------

I think you're in the thrall of a mindthink as enslaving
as you might think Americans are.

Ultimately parts of the truth of what you say
blind you to the whole truth.

It's a strange thing how knowing something true
can indeed blind you to other truths equally co-existant.

Think about it Aeon and let go of the drum you bang
for a moment.

If you're interested. If you're curious, let me know.

Otherwise, I'd rather, for now, walk away from someone
who thinks they know it all, but I will talk to you
if you're open to other ideas.
 

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