To Kill or Not Tough question Harder decision


View Poll Results: To Kill or Not - Usually Last Resort
Self Defense Yes 13 54.17%
In defense of others by (Soldiers-Police) 12 50.00%
I would kill to protect self-family -others 18 75.00%
Never Take a Life I would let them kill me 3 12.50%
Never Take a Life- I would let them kill others 0 0%
I am against War -Attacking another country 4 16.67%
I am for a country defending themselves from attack - Preemptive included. 6 25.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

Goober
#1
To Kill or Not – Tough question – Harder decision

To Kill or Not – a question that many have a so called firm position depending upon a number of possible situations. Yet the vast majority have never had to make that decision. That is a good thing as it reflects our society as basically safe

The reason I use so called – They have never been faced with that decision – At times where seconds count as an eternity.

What would force you to take another persons life – I say forced as it is usually, but not always the last resort.

Soldiers engaging the enemy do not have that opportunity to talk them out of trying to kill them. So in a fire fight it is engage and kill the enemy.

The Same applies to taking out known Terrorist with Drones. Limit causalities. Disrupt the Terror Org. Create fear for the next one in charge. And it works.

Please review and answer the Poll questions as they cover about all situations.
Last edited by Goober; Oct 11th, 2011 at 11:18 AM..
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#2
In a situation of self defense or family defence, the response would be almost automatic -- fight or flight. pure instict.

While I would prefer to avoid such a situation, I would kill if there was no other choice.
 
Goober
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

In a situation of self defense or family defence, the response would be almost automatic -- fight or flight. pure instict.

While I would prefer to avoid such a situation, I would kill if there was no other choice.

There are other questions in the poll. Would you kill to protect another person(s) from being killed?
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

There are other questions in the poll. Would you kill to protect another person(s) from being killed?

More than likely I would .... if there was no other way around it. Of course, I interpret that as a violence on the street sort of thing. Not so clear cut if you turn it into a 'Would you kill Hitler if you knew he was going to be Hitler?' type quandry.
 
Goober
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

More than likely I would .... if there was no other way around it. Of course, I interpret that as a violence on the street sort of thing. Not so clear cut if you turn it into a 'Would you kill Hitler if you knew he was going to be Hitler?' type quandry.

I would agree - That is why questions like if I could kill Hitler are not in there - I think I covered situations that a person may encounter - may or may not support

I just asked for 2 more poll questions to be added.
Last edited by Goober; Oct 11th, 2011 at 11:34 AM..
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+6
#6  Top Rated Post
Self defense- Goes without saying.
Protect family- Again goes without saying.
In service to Country or community - That's part of the deal. If your not prepared to pull the trigger you should consider another career. Not to say that it isn't difficult to live with.
Last edited by Retired_Can_Soldier; Oct 11th, 2011 at 11:51 AM..
 
Zan
+4
#7
It's not a tough decision at all - we're hardwired to fight for our lives - to the death, if necessary.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#8
A true pacifist might say that he wouldn't kill to save a member of his family...
But let him face a situation where someone is about to shoot a member of his family and he has a firearm in reach and he say he wouldn't grab that gun and shoot the sonofab_itch...I say bullshyte and that person is lying through his teeth.
 
SLM
+3
#9
Middle option. In defense of self/family/others. Kill or be killed situation, a fight for survival. I want to live.

Hope I never have to make that choice. If I ever did, I'm sure it would haunt me, despite the justification for it.
 
Goober
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper View Post

A true pacifist might say that he wouldn't kill to save a member of his family...
But let him face a situation where someone is about to shoot a member of his family and he has a firearm in reach and he say he wouldn't grab that gun and shoot the sonofab_itch...I say bullshyte and that person is lying through his teeth.

I think that most people would - the survival instinct - adrenaline - But I am also as sure that people have not taken any action and were killed because they would not bend their moral belief of not killing.
A timbstone i heard of comes to mind
Boothill

Here lies Lester Moore,
4 slugs from times a 44,
No Les
No more.

Another one

Here lies the body of Samuel Crane
He ran a race with a passenger train
He got to the crossing and almost across
Sam and his car was a total loss
Sams spirit now tolls his knell
That Sam is on his way to well
If he only took time to stop look and listen
He'd be living now instead of missing

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Middle option. In defense of self/family/others. Kill or be killed situation, a fight for survival. I want to live.

Hope I never have to make that choice. If I ever did, I'm sure it would haunt me, despite the justification for it.

That it would haunt - upset - cause distress - demonstrates you have a conscience.
 
CDNBear
+6
#11
I believe that all life is sacred...

I can however compartmentalize my emotion and ethical beliefs. In the dispensing of duty to my country, countrymen, family.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.
 
Goober
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I believe that all life is sacred...

I can however compartmentalize my emotion and ethical beliefs. In the dispensing of duty to my country, countrymen, family.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.

Well said
 
Ocean Breeze
#13
Not a black and white situation at all. Before one can even "kill in self defense " one has to have the means to do so. Not everyone does and most sensible folks don't carry (lethal) weapons on them .

Self defense situations are not planned. They usually arise unexpectedly.

Personally......I might bite and scratch and kick in "self defense" as that is what I could do in a sudden situation . I do not and WILL NOT carry a weapon .......particularly a lethal one. Pepper spray ?? maybe. If I get killed by some weapon toting idiot ... Then that is how it is. I can control what I do but I cannot control what others do.

defending ones family ........again. one does not plan on these situations. Most of the time they arise suddenly.

Don't think I could kill another person......regardless of the circumstances. Can hardly "kill " a bug that invades my sidewalks or gardens.

One has to be in that kind of threatening situation to know what they would do. Outside of that......one is just musing and speculating.

as one does not know for certain what they would do , how they would react in a volatile or threatening situation.
 
Goober
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze View Post

Not a black and white situation at all. Before one can even "kill in self defense " one has to have the means to do so. Not everyone does and most sensible folks don't carry (lethal) weapons on them .

Self defense situations are not planned. They usually arise unexpectedly.

Personally......I might bite and scratch and kick in "self defense" as that is what I could do in a sudden situation . I do not and WILL NOT carry a weapon .......particularly a lethal one. Pepper spray ?? maybe. If I get killed by some weapon toting idiot ... Then that is how it is. I can control what I do but I cannot control what others do.

defending ones family ........again. one does not plan on these situations. Most of the time they arise suddenly.

Don't think I could kill another person......regardless of the circumstances. Can hardly "kill " a bug that invades my sidewalks or gardens.

One has to be in that kind of threatening situation to know what they would do. Outside of that......one is just musing and speculating.

as one does not know for certain what they would do , how they would react in a volatile or threatening situation.

You never know what you are capable of until that type of situation arises. Not referring to Soldiers.
 
CDNBear
+3
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

This is a trolling exercise, and as such I will not honor the troll with an answer. Again

....

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

You brought up the point on another post - I tried to find out where you stood - I asked from some various viewpoints such as Soldiers killing to protect lives in Darfur - As usual - Your mode is to go off the fukin deep end. Now put me back on Ignore. Life was peaceful. Luv Ya Ger.

Against my better judgment, and I'm sure Gh will chide me for it, trolling or not, I have to speak my mind here.

This...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that they could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.

...was completely written with Gh in mind.

One of the reasons I have a great deal of respect for Gh, is that very belief. His principles, his belief in this matter is beyond reproach in my books.

It is a core value, that I have absolutely no doubt, he will honour to his grave. That I have never seem him waver on, have a double standard with, or be hypocritical in any way shape or form.

He is, as far as I am concerned, the only true pacifist on this site. And is the only pacifist, that has ever leveled an argument for his position, that changed my mind about the true pacifist.
 
Goober
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

....



Against my better judgment, and I'm sure Gh will chide me for it, trolling or not, I have to speak my mind here.

This...

...was completely written with Gh in mind.

One of the reasons I have a great deal of respect for Gh, is that very belief. His principles, his belief in this matter is beyond reproach in my books.

It is a core value, that I have absolutely no doubt, he will honour to his grave. That I have never seem him waver on, have a double standard with, or be hypocritical in any way shape or form.

He is, as far as I am concerned, the only true pacifist on this site. And is the only pacifist, that has ever leveled an argument for his position, that changed my mind about the true pacifist.

And I agreed - So regardless of what I post I have Little Ger on my ass. Angry No - It is tiresome though.
 
SLM
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

That it would haunt - upset - cause distress - demonstrates you have a conscience.

I would fear the person who could do this without being haunted by it.
 
Goober
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

I would fear the person who could do this without being haunted by it.

I asked for 2 more poll questions to be added and they were. Thanks to the Mod.
 
SLM
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

I asked for 2 more poll questions to be added and they were. Thanks to the Mod.

The last two options are, in my opinion, harder to decide upon.

In a "kill or be killed" situation, I'm guessing instinct would take over, it's not so much a decision as an action or reaction I think.

But if you are talking about going to war, that is a decision. A really difficult one, morally and ethically.

Am I against war? Yes, of course. I don't really believe anyone is for war. They may be inured to it but I have to believe that deep down given a choice, a real choice, almost all would choose not to have war. But it is the agreeing on peace that's usually the hardest part anyway. JMO

On the other hand though, we should stand up for ourselves and what we feel is right. War is not only about attacking but also about defending and protecting, either ourselves or others. And that is surely as ethical of a stance as pacifism is.

Yet defense as justification for attack can be a kind of a double edged sword. Is the necessity real or perceived? If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the majority of the German public did believe they needed to act in self defense against Poland too.
 
wulfie68
+2
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I believe that all life is sacred...

I can however compartmentalize my emotion and ethical beliefs. In the dispensing of duty to my country, countrymen, family.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for true pacifists. Who abhor violence of any kind. Who believe that the taking the life of another human being, is simply wrong. Whose faith, principle and beliefs are so devout, that could give their life, before taking one.

That takes courage, and conviction, of no less strength or character than that of someone that would kill to save that person.

I agree wholeheartedly with all that you have stated here but I must say one other thing: I think true pacifists are wrong. I don't think it is wrong to desire peace and abhor violence, but I think they are wrong to hold that belief so high. Maybe its because I am selfish: there is no higher priority in my life than protecting and providing for my family, and if it meant I would have to kill to do it, then I would. I also believe that the good of the many outweighs the good of the one and that holding to your own conviction over the good of others is also an extremely selfish conceit (unless that one is my son then the many can go f*** themselves... sorry, I channel Bear when it comes to my man-cub).
 
Johnnny
#21
In the heat of the moment while you are defending yourself and you kill the person, id say judging on the situation it could be warrented. Usually breaking a limb is preferable to smashing someones head in though...... Defending my country against foreign invaders, id say is expected because id be protecting my country lifestyle and culture. If i seen an officer getting pummeled by a criminal id probally incapacitate the criminal over actually killing the criminal
 
Goober
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny View Post

In the heat of the moment while you are defending yourself and you kill the person, id say judging on the situation it could be warrented. Usually breaking a limb is preferable to smashing someones head in though...... Defending my country against foreign invaders, id say is expected because id be protecting my country lifestyle and culture. If i seen an officer getting pummeled by a criminal id probally incapacitate the criminal over actually killing the criminal

As would many - But to stick to a strong moral belief in not killing and dying for it is a lot harder than killing in self defense.

Some would and some would not. Like most things in life, you never know how you will react till in that type of situation

That said a number of people on this Forum have been in those situations.
 
petros
#23
Check this out: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ho...hour-kill.html
 
Goober
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Check this out: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ho...hour-kill.html

If you anser this question OK - Not arelated to this thread.

Question is Yes or No.

Now be quick like the bunny you are and gimme a reply.

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Check this out: http://forums.canadiancontent.net/ho...hour-kill.html

Still waiting - No not related to the thread. More convuluted than that one.
 
petros
#25
Why is it not related? There are plenty of ways to kill. Why leave some out?
 
Goober
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Why is it not related? There are plenty of ways to kill. Why leave some out?

Cannot cover all - asked the questions that people could relate to - protecting others for one - self defense - War - and so on.

I was asking Yes or No - Not related to the thread topic in any way -

So the question is - is it yes or is it no???
 
petros
#27
I only kill to eat.

BTW the film does go into would or wouldn't you kill during war or if socially acceptable.
 
Goober
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I only kill to eat.

BTW the film does go into would or wouldn't you kill during war or if socially acceptable.

Well I will watch that this week. Still have not had time to go over the other one yet.

As one poster puts it - be afraid of the ones who like it. As to not killing - or killing - Only that situation when faced will give a person a truer perspective of what they would or would not do.
 
petros
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Well I will watch that this week. Still have not had time to go over the other one yet.

As one poster puts it - be afraid of the ones who like it. As to not killing - or killing - Only that situation when faced will give a person a truer perspective of what they would or would not do.

How much of it has to do with being led to believe certain ways of killing or killing certain people are okay and others aren't?
 
Goober
#30
By refusing to take a life, does that include standing by and not preventing a person from killing someone?

If by preventing you kill them, but you save a life - Now that is a conflcit is it not?
 

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