Should a person be legally required to register a prepaid smart device?


View Poll Results: Should a person be legally required to register a prepaid smart device?
Yes. 1 11.11%
No. 7 77.78%
Other answer. 1 11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

White_Unifier
#1
Given how easily one could anonymously buy a smartphone and a SIM card and then pay with cash or an anonymously purchased prepaid credit card, it would seem that the law has allowed a gaping loophole in which organized crime can operate.

That said, some want to defend anonymity not for criminal reasons but simply because they appreciate their privacy. Others might legitimately worry about how such a law could prevent a poor person without ID from accessing a phone that he might need for job interviews among other things. Yet others might worry that such a law could led to wrongful convictions.

I can see a few solutions to these dilemmas.

Firstly, we could require a person to register a prepaid smart device (such as a smartphone, a tablet, or any other device that can access the internet). This would mean that since one would not need to register a prepaid feature phone (aka dumb phone) or other device that does not give him internet access and would not need to register a prepaid SIM card either, any person who truly wants to maintain his privacy would still have the option of buying a prepaid feature phone and SIM card. Since such devices have no internet access though, the range of crimes that can be committed using them would be much more limited than those that can be committed through internet access.

Secondly, we could allow a person to register a prepaid smart device in one of three ways:

1. By presenting valid photo ID.

2. By providing his fingerprints.

3. By providing a passport-quality picture of himself.

While such a policy would still allow many loopholes (for example, by having a criminal limit himself to unregistered prepaid feature phones and SIM cards and, at least until attrition takes its toll, by buying second-hand smartphones to anonymously access the internet, and allowing a criminal whose fingerprints the police does not have access to to register his phone under a false name using his fingerprints), it would still help the police in at least some cases and make criminals' jobs at least somewhat more difficult than they are now.

I know that terrorism is not a common occurrence, but such a law could still help to make it even less so.

As for the concern over wrongful convictions, a simple solution would be to make the registration of a prepaid device inadmissible as proof at a hearing. This would mean that while such a database could help police in a criminal investigation by providing them with tips, the police would still need to then collect other proof beyond simple registration to ensure that the crime was not committed on a lost, stolen, or cloned phone or on a phone that might have been given to someone as a gift, etc.

In spite of the extreme limitations and loopholes of such a law, it would still provide the police with at least some useful information in crime investigations that they might not be able to access easily now.

Your thoughts on this?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
Man, you are the single most statist person I have ever met.

Not judging, just sayin'.

OK, maybe judging a little. I quote Lord Acton:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
taxslave
+2
#3
What we need is less government involvement in our lives, not more useless bureaucracies to waste money.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

What we need is less government involvement in our lives, not more useless bureaucracies to waste money.

No, no! Let's require intrusive registry and monitoring of SIM cards and burners! Because TERRISTS!
 
White_Unifier
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Man, you are the single most statist person I have ever met.

Not judging, just sayin'.

OK, maybe judging a little. I quote Lord Acton:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And yet my proposal is more moderate than the one proposed here:
Bill Would Bar Anonymous Prepaid Cellphones - The New York Times

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

What we need is less government involvement in our lives, not more useless bureaucracies to waste money.

So should we just eliminate the need to present ID at the bank because "we need less government involvement in our lives?"
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

And yet my proposal is more moderate than the one proposed here:
Bill Would Bar Anonymous Prepaid Cellphones - The New York Times



So should we just eliminate the need to present ID at the bank because "we need less government involvement in our lives?"

Um. . . banks aren't the government, genius.
 
White_Unifier
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

No, no! Let's require intrusive registry and monitoring of SIM cards and burners! Because TERRISTS!

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Where in the OP did I propose registering SIM cards and burners?

Or even feature phones for that matter?

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Um. . . banks aren't the government, genius.

I don't know about in the US. But in Canada I've always been asked for my SIN number whenever I'd opened a bank account. A SIN number is for Revenue Canada, a Federal government institution. And what about showing ID at customs at the airport?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Where in the OP did I propose registering SIM cards and burners?

Or even feature phones for that matter?



I don't know about in the US. But in Canada I've always been asked for my SIN number whenever I'd opened a bank account. A SIN number is for Revenue Canada, a Federal government institution. And what about showing ID at customs at the airport?

Raht char, buddy!

"Firstly, we could require a person to register a prepaid smart device (such as a smartphone, a tablet, or any other device that can access the internet)."

Next stupid question?
 
White_Unifier
#9
Also, telecom companies aren't the government either. Just as banks must follow government rules, so do other businesses, no?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

I don't know about in the US. But in Canada I've always been asked for my SIN number whenever I'd opened a bank account. A SIN number is for Revenue Canada, a Federal government institution. And what about showing ID at customs at the airport?

Banks ain't the government, genius.
 
White_Unifier
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Raht char, buddy!

"Firstly, we could require a person to register a prepaid smart device (such as a smartphone, a tablet, or any other device that can access the internet)."

Next stupid question?

right. If you read that, it clearly excludes feature phones and SIM cards.

The the sentence that followed the one you quoted:

"This would mean that since one would not need to register a prepaid feature phone (aka dumb phone) or other device that does not give him internet access and would not need to register a prepaid SIM card either, any person who truly wants to maintain his privacy would still have the option of buying a prepaid feature phone and SIM card. "

Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Banks ain't the government, genius.

Neither are telecom companies. So what would be wrong with requiring a company that sells smartphones from registering the buyer's phone. Banks are legally required to collect information too, no? At least in Canada anyway.
 
gerryh
#12
I'm sure we will soon have a link to how some Scandinavian countries have already done this with resounding success? Wait for it..........
 
White_Unifier
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

I'm sure we will soon have a link to how some Scandinavian countries have already done this with resounding success? Wait for it..........

Interesting. I didn't know that. Do you have a link?

I know Germany will require registration of pre-paid SIM cards, which is even more intrusive than what I proposed since to register smart devices would exclude SIM cards and feature phones.
 
gerryh
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Interesting. I didn't know that. Do you have a link?

I know Germany will require registration of pre-paid SIM cards, which is even more intrusive than what I proposed since to register smart devices would exclude SIM cards and feature phones.

Fu ck....... are you ever a moron.
 
White_Unifier
#15
Plus the German proposal imposes much stricter ID rules than what I proposed too. My my, some here must think Germany has gone fascist again.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Fu ck....... are you ever a moron.

Do you know how to press the send button only once or is that too complicated for you?
 
gerryh
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

.



Do you know how to press the send button only once or is that too complicated for you?


Wtf are you babbling about now?
 
White_Unifier
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Wtf are you babbling about now?

I thought I saw your post posted twice.

Now faq you and have a good day.
 
gerryh
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

I thought I saw your post posted twice.

Now faq you and have a good day.


So, not only are you are a racist, and support intrusive big government, but you are now seeing things.
 
White_Unifier
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

So, not only are you are a racist, and support intrusive big government, but you are now seeing things.

If you want to present rational arguments for or against the OP, by all means. If you're just here to troll people, then fuk off.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#20
I don't see the distinction between smart phones and not smart phones with regards to whether they should be registered or not. If you want to get all paranoid and big brothery, both should be registered. Personally, the government has never done anything right so why give them that power?
 
White_Unifier
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing View Post

I don't see the distinction between smart phones and not smart phones with regards to whether they should be registered or not. If you want to get all paranoid and big brothery, both should be registered. Personally, the government has never done anything right so why give them that power?

Smartphones grant internet access which can allow criminal networking in a way that feature pones cannot. But yes, I agree that in principle, many crimes can be committed without internet access.
 
gerryh
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by White_Unifier View Post

Smartphones grant internet access which can allow criminal networking in a way that feature pones cannot. But yes, I agree that in principle, many crimes can be committed without internet access.


So, since a small minority of the populace uses smart devices for illegal purposes, you want to punish everyone. Well aren't you a special fu cking dic khead. Anything else you want to see "registered" so the government can keep even closer tabs on us?

How about computers, laptops, tablets. You can get online using smart tv's, and game consoles. Want them registered also?
 
Durry
#23
I think all immigrants should definitely be required to register their phones, especially those from the Middle East.

I think we have pretty well lost control of who is now in our country.
 
White_Unifier
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

So, since a small minority of the populace uses smart devices for illegal purposes, you want to punish everyone. Well aren't you a special fu cking dic khead. Anything else you want to see "registered" so the government can keep even closer tabs on us?

How about computers, laptops, tablets. You can get online using smart tv's, and game consoles. Want them registered also?

And fuk you too.

Quote: Originally Posted by Durry View Post

I think all immigrants should definitely be required to register their phones, especially those from the Middle East.

I think we have pretty well lost control of who is now in our country.

Are you saying that only foreigners actually break laws?

For all we know, Gerryh uses the internet to access all kinds of nude kiddie pics.

And Tecumsehsbones, if you think my recommendation is extreme, even I cringe at reading this article:

Lawmakers pushing to make owning an unregistered prepaid phone illegal - Android Authority

My recommendation is like disneyland compared to the recommendations coming from your country's legislators.

https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/pr...ner-phone.html
 
justlooking
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Because TERRISTS!


She says, "terrorists, **** yeah !






Illegal immigrant to UK 'supplied more than 400 SIM cards to jihadis in Iraq and Syria so they could promote ISIS propaganda'

  • Rabar Mala, 32, alleged to have provided 437 cards and phone numbers to ISIS
  • He is accused of helping them create platforms to post their propaganda online
  • He allegedly activated them in UK, gave them to ISIS members in Iraq and Syria
  • Mala denied possessing property for the purposes of terrorism in court today

Read more: Illegal immigrant supplied 400 SIM cards to ISIS jihadis | Daily Mail Online

 
White_Unifier
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by justlooking View Post

She says, "terrorists, **** yeah !






Illegal immigrant to UK 'supplied more than 400 SIM cards to jihadis in Iraq and Syria so they could promote ISIS propaganda'

  • Rabar Mala, 32, alleged to have provided 437 cards and phone numbers to ISIS
  • He is accused of helping them create platforms to post their propaganda online
  • He allegedly activated them in UK, gave them to ISIS members in Iraq and Syria
  • Mala denied possessing property for the purposes of terrorism in court today

Read more: Illegal immigrant supplied 400 SIM cards to ISIS jihadis | Daily Mail Online

And what I'm proposing is so moderate that it would not necessarily have prevented this since it would not even require the registration of SIM cards. If the smartphones themselves could be acquired anonymously abroad, then my proposal would not have prevented this. At most, my proposal might reduce organized crime somewhat, perhaps even mostly comparatively petty crimes too.

Yet some in this thread propose that my moderate proposal is somehow tantamount to establishing a police state.
 
Bar Sinister
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

So, since a small minority of the populace uses smart devices for illegal purposes, you want to punish everyone. Well aren't you a special fu cking dic khead. Anything else you want to see "registered" so the government can keep even closer tabs on us?

How about computers, laptops, tablets. You can get online using smart tv's, and game consoles. Want them registered also?


Is it actually possible for you to post a reply without going out of your way to insult the original poster? No wonder you're not taken seriously.
 
gerryh
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Is it actually possible for you to post a reply without going out of your way to insult the original poster? No wonder you're not taken seriously.


Yup. If the original poster deserves it. So far, they have been few and far between these last 12 years.
 
JLM
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Is it actually possible for you to post a reply without going out of your way to insult the original poster? No wonder you're not taken seriously.


Or is Gerry just giving you a touch of your own medicine?

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

What we need is less government involvement in our lives, not more useless bureaucracies to waste money.


My thoughts EXACTLY!
 
White_Unifier
#30
In this case it could probably save money on at least two fronts:

1. It could make it at least somewhat easier for police officers to trace a crime to its perpetrator, at least in some cases.

2. It could discourage at least some people from committing certain crimes and so reduce the workload on the police.
 

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