It's All One 'war'


sanctus
#1
IT'S ALL ONE 'WAR'

PBS SHOW TO ARGUE ALLIES AS BAD AS NAZIS


:SLIDES.hotlink()" target="_blank">
US Marines led by a tank towards the last strongpoint of the Japanese resistance in WWII.




Last updated: 3:42 am
June 26, 2008
MEMBERS of the Greatest Generation - especially those with weak hearts - might want to steer clear of an upcoming PBS documentary that suggests the Allied victory in World War II was "tainted" and questions whether it can even be called a victory.
Moreover, the documentary, titled "The War of the World: A New History of the 20th Century," asserts that the war could only be won by forming an unholy alliance with a dictator - Joseph Stalin, who was as brutal as the one they were fighting, Adolf Hitler - and by adopting the same "pitiless" and "remorseless" tactics practiced by the enemy.
The three-part documentary is a companion to the best-selling book, "The War of the World: Twentieth Century Conflict and the Descent of the West" by Harvard and Oxford historian Niall Ferguson. The one-hour Part One of the documentary premieres Monday night at 10 on Ch. 13. The other two parts air the following two Mondays. World War II is the focus of Part Two.
His thesis: Instead of looking at the 20th century as having been disrupted by two world wars with periods of relative peace before, between and after them, it is more appropriate to view much of the history of the century as a continuous bloody conflict that was interrupted occasionally for a few short, exhausted catnaps of relative calm.
It is an illuminating viewpoint, and Ferguson does an effective job tying all of the century's mass deportations, enslavements, ethnic cleansings and genocides together so that you can't help being won over to his view that the violence of the 20th century was virtually never-ending.
But it is Ferguson's revisionist view of the tactics applied by the Allies in World War II that is likely to raise the hackles of those who have always believed in the "necessity" of bombing German and Japanese civilians, culminating in the atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to end a war we did not start.
"I think it's very hard for those who have imbibed the idea of a 'great generation' that what the Allies did to defeat the Axis was in some measure to adopt totalitarian tactics," Ferguson says in a Q&A on PBS's Web site.
"The aim of strategic bombing was . . . in large measure to kill German civilians by destroying the most densely populated parts of the country. And it only really worked when the level of destruction reached apocalyptic levels. It behooves us all to stare this reality in the face, by trying to understand what it was like to be on the receiving end of firestorms like the ones that engulfed Hamburg or Dresden."
And once again, it is demonstrated that nothing is sacred - not even World War II.
 
MikeyDB
#2
As with many things looking back affords a perspective that is unavailable at the time. From earliest times mankind has characterized one view as "right" and the other "wrong". We have been coached in thinking about and reaching our conclusions...if not indeed our "values" by people who had (and have) specific and particular axes to grind. Christianity and all major religions declare the qualities and expressions we "ought" to regard as "good" and "bad", "just and unjust", reinforced and added layer upon layer to the many and various arguments supporting these perspectives on "evil" and "good". Regardless of the particular message we inevitably find ourselves performing deeds that are clearly "bad" or "evil", from chemical warfare to nuclear warfare, from moral outrage at the treatment of prisoners and the torture of same..... We are prepared it seems obvious to do "evil" in response to"evil" and no sermon or chant or doctrine or philosophy has exercised sufficient power or "authority" to change this predilection to abandon what were once held as moral "values" associated with "good" for those of "evil". Whether in the name of expediency or simply moral outrage we turn our backs on the seminal expressions of a mind that has after millions of years weighed the observed behavior of humankind and adjudicated what is good or evil. And we choose evil.
 
CDNBear
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

IT'S ALL ONE 'WAR'


Moreover, the documentary, titled "The War of the World: A New History of the 20th Century," asserts that the war could only be won by forming an unholy alliance with a dictator - Joseph Stalin, who was as brutal as the one they were fighting, Adolf Hitler - and by adopting the same "pitiless" and "remorseless" tactics practiced by the enemy.

This is how wars are won quickly, efficiently and well before the home front loses their appetite for it.
 
MikeyDB
#4
Well that's revealling Bear!

Is seems we have an appetite for killing and being killed that's only asuaged when we gain the upper-hand bythrowing our lot in with muderers and despots....

Nasty bad people doing things we don't like don't approve-of and label as evil until we need them...... Stalin Hussein......quite a list.
 
Colpy
#5
If you people have been reading my posts over the past 6 months, you'd noticed I've quoted Ferguson extensively..........

The War of the World is a GREAT book, and yes, Ferguson criticizes Allied tactics in WWII..........but he also illuminates Japanese mass murder in China and elsewhere, and includes an very enlightening section on the Holocaust.....which should be read by a number of people on this site.

BTW, the thrust of his thesis is that western civilization is giving way to the east.....because the east has the population and has adopted western technology.......but rarely western political advancements.

To me, that means we had best get the wagons in a circle, Pilgrim............

READ THIS BOOK!
 
CDNBear
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDB View Post

Well that's revealling Bear!

Politics and war make strange bedfellows.

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

If you people have been reading my posts over the past 6 months, you'd noticed I've quoted Ferguson extensively..........

The War of the World is a GREAT book, and yes, Ferguson criticizes Allied tactics in WWII..........but he also illuminates Japanese mass murder in China and elsewhere, and includes an very enlightening section on the Holocaust.....which should be read by a number of people on this site.

BTW, the thrust of his thesis is that western civilization is giving way to the east.....because the east has the population and has adopted western technology.......but rarely western political advancements.

To me, that means we had best get the wagons in a circle, Pilgrim............

READ THIS BOOK!

Sounds intriguing, I will look for it.
 
MikeyDB
#7
Colpy ...

You're such a dichotomy....for the wrong reasons a lot of the time...

We (the consuming west with our love of petroleum) gave the radical religious lunatics of the East the means and willingness to behave the way they're behaving.... We created the climate of exuberant excess that we handed to the wealthy oil people in this region to keep our Chevy's and our Fords motoring down the asphalt scenery of our prosperous civilization....

Now the only metric available to compare the radicalism of the Islamists is ...well gosh isn't that wierd...Catholicism.... Where self-slaughter torture and invasion were the expresssions of "god's will"......

What goes around comes around....

We should get our wagons into a circle.... and until you can convince sufficient numbers that energizing another industrial nightmare ....we did it with Germany and we did it with Japan....two relatively small countries that held the world hostage....and now we're seeing the fruits of our greed coming out of Pakistan and the East....while we feed the monster of China....

Sheet Hombre......seems lak we jus don learn nuthin!
 
I think not
#8
This documentary should prove be interesting.
 
Lester
#9
The thing is we don't need middle east oil, why spend all this money trying to secure it when you could develope Sasks and Albertas oilsands (*albeit more resposibly)to supply North America. I'm all for being an isolationist, or at least let's restrict our business dealings to democracies.
 
sanctus
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Lester View Post

The thing is we don't need middle east oil, why spend all this money trying to secure it when you could develope Sasks and Albertas oilsands (*albeit more resposibly)to supply North America. I'm all for being an isolationist, or at least let's restrict our business dealings to democracies.


Exactly what I think. And especially true for Canada. Why do we always try so hard to pretend we are like our neighbour's to the south? When will we learn that the Middle East really has nothing to do with us here in Canada?
 
lone wolf
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

Exactly what I think. And especially true for Canada. Why do we always try so hard to pretend we are like our neighbour's to the south? When will we learn that the Middle East really has nothing to do with us here in Canada?

Oh ... I agree that Canadians are programmed to impress their American cousins - and that the Middle East isn't our concern. It's been a while since you read a Bible in the same terms as your average dutiful Church-goer isn't it? Way too many God-fearing and weak-kneed folk bow to both too much Bible and CNN prodaganda. To them, Middle East equates to Israel and Israel equates to some special place that "good Christians" are supposed to revere as Heaven.
Last edited by lone wolf; Jun 28th, 2008 at 06:58 PM..
 
sanctus
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Oh ... I agree that Canadians are programmed to impress their American cousins - and that the Middle East isn't our concern. It's been a while since you read a Bible in the same terms as your average dutiful Church-goer isn't it? Way too many God-fearing and weak-kneed folk bow to both too much Bible and CNN prodaganda. To them, Middle East equates to Israel and Israel equates to some special place that "good Christians" are supposed to revere as Heaven.

The Bible, and Church have exactly what to do with this discussion? Do you feel it is important to mention same, and my abilities to read Scripture?
 
lone wolf
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

The Bible, and Church have exactly what to do with this discussion? Do you feel it is important to mention same, and my abilities to read Scripture?

Had to do with what Israel brings to mind in a lot of people. You CAN read can't you?

Woof!
Last edited by lone wolf; Jun 28th, 2008 at 10:21 PM..
 
L Gilbert
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Lester View Post

The thing is we don't need middle east oil, why spend all this money trying to secure it when you could develope Sasks and Albertas oilsands (*albeit more resposibly)to supply North America. I'm all for being an isolationist, or at least let's restrict our business dealings to democracies.

Or even just stick to NorthAm oil. But I'd much rather go electric or something than continue with feeding those freakin oil companies.
Anywaqy, it makes sense that good people don't want to go out and kill other people so they send nasty people to do the killing for them. Doesn't matter what side.
 
MikeyDB
#15
You'd have a difficult time convincing many here at CC that the mess in the Middle East doesn't have anything to do with Canada. Apologists for everything American and everything Israeli permeate these threads. The legerdemain of an appeal to moral outrage over this or that issue is enough to send the Yank huggers into spasms of insults and spumes of derogation. Watch how quickly the "Anti-Semite" and the "Anti-American" card are hauled out as justification for any criticism of any kind.

Many contributors to Canadian Content are bought-and-paid-for "America" clones. It's really disappointing (to the point of nausea) to read and listen to the crap regurgitated by self-proclaimed "authorities" on international politics and dynamics...never mind the selective hypocrisy and double-talk with which these folk celebrate their second class citizenship.....

Brainwashed fools.
 
darkbeaver
#16
"It's all one war." I think that's true, it's been one long class war and soon we will rectify that error or that error will rectify us. The only way they'll be exploring space is as dust. Stamp out the capitalists in your nieghbourhood today.
 
gopher
+1
#17  Top Rated Post
Niall Ferguson is a crank who believes the USA is not involved enough in foreign wars. He applauded Bush's invasion of Iraq although he feels some changes in that war are in order. He disparages social entitlement programs but has no qualms about corporate welfare. He also loves the war profiteering Rothschild clan. In his little mind he feels that he has all the answers to everyone else's problems. And that solution is further USA imperialism:

"Unlike many of his conservative peers, however, Ferguson does not cast his defense of imperial expansion in terms of its benefits for the United States—as a strategy of prevention against potential aggressors or as a mechanism to secure American dominance for the foreseeable future. Instead, he views an American empire as a boon to its subjects. As he explains, he has “no objection in principle to an American empire,” for indeed, “many parts of the world would benefit from a period of American rule.”

http://bostonreview.net/BR30.1/chibber.html


Yeah, I'm sure Iraqis would find that quite laudable.
 
sanctus
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

Had to do with what Israel brings to mind in a lot of people. You CAN read can't you?

Woof!

Your sarcasm would be much more effective if you were actually clever. However, what Israel brings to mind has what specifically to do with me personally, which is what ( or more accurately who)you attacked.
 
lone wolf
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

Your sarcasm would be much more effective if you were actually clever. However, what Israel brings to mind has what specifically to do with me personally, which is what ( or more accurately who)you attacked.

Obviously, you interpret better than you read. It has nothing to do with you personally. It had to do with the way folks hear things. I suppose when infected by a tremendous ego, one might think the world revolves around him.

Attack, indeed....
Last edited by lone wolf; Jun 29th, 2008 at 08:39 AM..
 

Similar Threads

9
'Myths and facts about the war'
by czardogs | Apr 9th, 2008
0
Hezbollah declares 'open war' on Israel
by Praxius | Feb 14th, 2008
0
Fires of 'civil war' erupt in Paris
by Blackleaf | Oct 30th, 2005
19
Their 'Terrorism' And Our 'War'
by moghrabi | Jul 19th, 2005