British soldier in Iraq describes moment Americans attacked his convoy


Blackleaf
#1
Why is it than when it comes to fighting wars the Americans are so useless and the British are so much better?



US warplanes hit British tank convoy in Iraq, inquest told


By Emma Henry and agencies

30/01/2007


A teenage soldier awarded the highest British honour for gallantry has described the terrifying moment when his tank convoy came under fire from AMERICAN planes in Iraq.


L/Cpl Matty Hull died in March 2003. Despite being friendly, him and his convoy were attacked by the Americans.



George Cross holder L/Cpl Chris Finney, 19, said he had been driving the lead Scimitar tank in a convoy of four away from Basra in southern Iraq on a reconnaissance mission, when the two A-10 tankbuster planes struck on March 28, 2003.

He told the Oxford inquest into colleague L/Cpl of Horse Matty Hull's death that he did not know at the time these were American planes until he saw one lining up to fire for a second time.

L/Cpl Hull's widow listened in tears as L/Cpl Finney said said: "At first there were sparks everywhere and the vehicles stopped, they obviously had been stopped by something. I couldn't actually see what had hit us or where from.

He said he reversed back on the instructions of the commander and into the tank carrying L/Cpl Hull, 25, of Windsor, Berkshire.

He said as he jumped out of his tank, he tried to grab his rifle but a fire inside the vehicle forced him back. He said he realised that there were still people inside as he took cover. He said: "I was looking around me and couldn't really see. I then looked back at my vehicle to see my gunner trying to get out."

Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker said the gunner was suffering from a large leg wound. L/Cpl Finney, then a trooper with just one year's experience in the army, pulled him out of the burning vehicle and began to give him medical treatment.


YEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAA, COWBOY! WOOO! American military in Iraq: Absolutely useless. Brainded morons. Nowhere near as good as the British. If there's one brain cell to share around them all it would be a miracle. The light is on but methinks it's dim.



As he did so, he was aware that a type of smoke used by coalition forces to indicate a friendly fire incident had been released by one of the tanks in the convoy.

He said: "From where I was I wasn't aware that it was a plane or anything like that.

All I knew was our vehicles had been hit and the smoke had been deployed.

"I was still with my gunner on the floor at this point and the plane came back into view to start its second run."

The inquest heard that he himself had been hit in the arm, but he was only aware of his arm shaking and did not realise he was injured until later.

He told Mr Walker that he went back to L/Cpl Hull's tank to try to save whoever was inside, but fierce flames forced him back.

Mr Walker told him: "I should just like to say, Mr Finney, that you are an extremely brave man and are to be commended for what you did, because it seems to me that had you not taken the steps that you did to move your gunner away from this incident then his injuries may well have been significantly more than they were."

L/Cpl Hull, from Princes William and Harry's Blues and Royals, the Household Cavalry Regiment, died at the scene and his remains were left in the tank until they could safely be recovered the next day.


telegraph.co.uk
Last edited by Blackleaf; Jan 30th, 2007 at 02:03 PM..
 
hermanntrude
#2
bloody yanks. Do you suppose they stopped firing when they saw the special smoke?
 
red dog
#3
Those arent American troops in that pic,nice try though.
 
hermanntrude
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by red dog View Post

Those arent American troops in that pic,nice try though.

doesnt matter who's in the pic. the americans were still bombing the wrong people
 
red dog
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrude View Post

doesnt matter who's in the pic. the americans were still bombing the wrong people

It does matter,if your going to insult the military at least put the people your insulting in the pic,especially if your going to be slandering them.
 
hermanntrude
#6
It honestly doesnt matter to me. After all, it looks very much like the original poster added the caption him/herself. A simple matter of confusion, as opposed to the rather more pertinant matter, which you are steadfastly refusing to even acknowledge, which is that of American planes attacking UK tanks.

This isnt the first time we've heard reports of the US military shooting before thinking. When you give a soldier a weapon you ought really to teach them to work out who they're pointing it at before pressing the button, pulling the trigger or whatever.

don't you think?

or would u rather continue to be pedantic about which picture portrays whom? We all know who Blackleaf was talking about.
 
tracy
#7
It doesn't say anything about how or why this happened. Without that information, it isn't appropriate to judge the entire US military. Do the Brits never suffer friendly fire incidents?
 
hermanntrude
#8
well i am aware that it might be the british media selling it to me this way, but ive never heard a report of a brit accidentally shooting the crap out of an american, whereas i hear regularly of brits killed, injured or scared the crap out of by a rampaging american with orders to shoot everything that moves. (exaggeration)
 
tracy
#9
Herman, that might have something to do with the fact that the US has over 100 000 troops there as opposed to the much smaller number of British troops. Or, it may be true that the Americans are more likely to shoot than their British counterparts. That's probably the natural outcome of more of their soldiers dying in a month than the UK has lost in the entire war. I don't know. Doing an internet search, I can find 2 or 3 incidents where UK soldiers have been accidentally killed by Americans.

Here is an example of the much better British soldiers accidentally shooting the crap out of eachother. Unfortunately, friendly fire seems to happen in every conflict.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...05/ai_n9499563
More pain for mother of friendly-fire victim


Independent, The (London) , Feb 5, 2005 by Ian Herbert

TROOPER DAVID Clarke would have been 21 next week and few doubt he would have marked the occasion in style. A born showman, he bungee-jumped off Blackpool pier on his last trip out with his family before heading for Iraq. The invasion was five days old when the young tank driver died, at the age of 19. He perished when his 62-ton Challenger II tank was attacked while stationary in a desert ditch just outside Basra, so becoming the first victim of British-on- British "friendly fire" in the conflict.
=
Last edited by tracy; Jan 30th, 2007 at 04:05 PM..
 
RomSpaceKnight
#10
The yanks have always had a fire first ask questions later. Part timers who think they are Tom Cruise are a big part. It took the Taliban along time to kill more Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan than the yanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire#History
 
thomaska
#11
Ah yes..nothing quite like "civilian" experts on the military.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#12
Supply tech with Her Majesty Royal Canadian Armed Forces in the early 80's.




shmuck
 
hermanntrude
#13
thomaska please explain. how do you account for the apparent fact that americans seem to be involved in friendly fire more than other countries? can it be explained by their greater numbers?
 
thomaska
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnight View Post

Supply tech with Her Majesty Royal Canadian Armed Forces in the early 80's.




shmuck

Which is all fine and dandy. You should be an expert in all things that are related to the Canadian Military. But you're going to have to produce something a little more convincing than jerking things off of wikipedia to be taken seriously.



Douche.
 
thomaska
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrude View Post

thomaska please explain. how do you account for the apparent fact that americans seem to be involved in friendly fire more than other countries? can it be explained by their greater numbers?

Of course it is the bigger numbers. It isn't like the U.S. Military had standing orders to destroy allies' personnel and equipment.

It was an accident, didn't you just post some "forgive and forget" thing in another post here today? Or does that not apply to the "NeoCon Wermacht"?
 
hermanntrude
#16
OK well for the time being i'll believe i am a victim of the media's attempts to make me believe the US military are trigger happy. Your hypothesis seems valid.

forgive and forget seems easier to apply when the culprits are still alive and well and shouting
 
red dog
#17
My bad,they are American....the pic was taken in 1991 during operation desert storm.

My point is Blackleaf only posts this stuff to bolster his country and if it means lieing to make the USA or Canada look bad then away he go's. You should see some of the stuff he posts on other Canadian sites saying how we are dirt here in Canada.

According to him we are backwards and neanderthal like here,I should post some of his Canadians are dirt rants.
Then you would see why he's on this site and a few others reposting the same ****e over and over again.

(end rant)
 
I think not
#18
Trigger happy yanks.

Hey Blackleaf, you missed an article.

A born showman, he bungee-jumped off Blackpool pier on his last trip out with his family before heading for Iraq. The invasion was five days old when the young tank driver died, at the age of 19. He perished when his 62-ton Challenger II tank was attacked while stationary in a desert ditch just outside Basra, so becoming the first victim of British-on- British "friendly fire" in the conflict.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...05/ai_n9499563

BTW Blackleaf, thank God any Brit I have ever met isn't even remotely obtuse as yourself.
 
Curiosity
#19
The Man In the Arena
by Theodore Roosevelt
(From a speech delivered in Paris in 1910)
It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat.


 
selfactivated
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnight View Post

The yanks have always had a fire first ask questions later. Part timers who think they are Tom Cruise are a big part. It took the Taliban along time to kill more Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan than the yanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire#History

I am NOT a fan of this war you know that. And in your perspective this is true. BUT We are NOT talking about seasoned Warriors we ARE talking about VERY young people that were given a gun and told SHOOT! I aint sayin its right, I hate that our young ones are being trained to murder, it sickens me. They ARE just young!
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
#21
If the British are so much better fighters, why did they lose to us twice -- in the 1780s and in 1815?

Why does Blackleaf hate America so much???
 
Kreskin
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

If the British are so much better fighters, why did they lose to us twice -- in the 1780s and in 1815?

LOL. True. But they did take back the Falklands from sheep.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by selfactivated View Post

I am NOT a fan of this war you know that. And in your perspective this is true. BUT We are NOT talking about seasoned Warriors we ARE talking about VERY young people that were given a gun and told SHOOT! I aint sayin its right, I hate that our young ones are being trained to murder, it sickens me. They ARE just young!

Sorry kid, engaging the nation's enemies while in service is NOT MURDER!

GEEZ!
 
Colpy
Conservative
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

If the British are so much better fighters, why did they lose to us twice -- in the 1780s and in 1815?

Why does Blackleaf hate America so much???

I was going to say the same thing......but I thought I'd leave it to an American. Well said.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

LOL. True. But they did take back the Falklands from sheep.

funny, first sheep I've seen walking on their hind legs carrying FN FALs..........to say nothing of having air support.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

If the British are so much better fighters, why did they lose to us twice -- in the 1780s and in 1815?

Why does Blackleaf hate America so much???

It might have something to do with wearing red coats? You think? Maybe?
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

Sorry kid, engaging the nation's enemies while in service is NOT MURDER!

GEEZ!

Apparently neither is killing your own allies. They found a different, politically correct term for that: "friendly" fire.
 
tracy
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

LOL. True. But they did take back the Falklands from sheep.

And they had at least 3 friendly fire incidents in that conflict (brits killing brits).
 
I think not
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

If the British are so much better fighters, why did they lose to us twice -- in the 1780s and in 1815?

They didn't lose in the War of 1812, for all intensive purposes it was a stalemate.

Quote: Originally Posted by gopher View Post

Why does Blackleaf hate America so much???

He doesn't hate America, he looks down on everything non-British.
 
Blackleaf
#30
Quote:

Despite sending up smoke to warn the American pilots they were firing on their own side and yelling “STOP STOP STOP” into their radios, they were bombed again.




Soldier tells how he tried to rescue colleague

By Stewart Payne

31/01/2007

A soldier awarded the George Cross for his bravery told an inquest yesterday of his attempt to rescue a fallen colleague as their tank convoy was repeatedly fired on by American warplanes in Iraq.


L/Cpl Matty Hull died in March 2003



As the British soldiers dived for cover the US A-10 Thunderbolts turned to launch another bombardment on their blazing convoy.

Despite sending up smoke to warn the American pilots they were firing on their own side and yelling “STOP STOP STOP” into their radios, they were bombed again.

The inquest, at Oxford, heard that the pilots were “rogues”, meaning that they were not operating under direct radio contact.

Lance Corporal Matty Hull, 25, serving with the Blues and Royals, the Household Cavalry Regiment, died trapped inside his burning tank, despite the efforts of L/Cpl Christopher Finney, who was then a trooper.

Five of his colleagues were injured.

They were travelling in Scimitar armoured vehicles near Basra in Southern Iraq during the war in March 2003 when their convoy came under “blue on blue” fire from the aircraft, known as Tankbusters.

"There were explosions everywhere,” L/Cpl Finney said.

He looked out of the driver’s hatch of his burning vehicle and saw three soldiers running away.

After abandoning his vehicle he saw L/Cpl Alan Tudball trying to clamber out of a turret that was engulfed in flames.

He went to his aid despite knowing that an A-10 was turning around to make a second pass.

"It lined itself up to come straight down at the patrol and open fire,” he said.

“When it actually started to fire it was only 50 to 100 feet high. Shots were fired in and around the vehicle.”

”I grabbed the gunner to move him away and I remember my arm shaking.”

L/Cpl Finney had been shot in the arm but, after finding a safe place to leave L/Cpl Tudball, ran back towards the flaming convoy to try to pull L/Cpl Hull free, but was beaten back by fierce flames.

L/Cpl Hull died from severe multiple injuries.

L/Cpl Finney was later awarded the George Cross, the highest British honour for gallantry.

L/Cpl Jonathan Woodgate, a Scimitar driver, told the inquest: “I remember seeing the ground erupt.

“I saw the plane come around for a third time at the same height, but he didn’t fire this time.”

Staff Corporal Ashley Bell said: “We started to realise it was friendly on friendly and I got on the radio and spoke to British forward air controllers (FAC) and American FACs,” he said.

"I asked for a STOP, STOP, STOP.”

But the A-10 came around for a second attack on the convoy of three Scimitars and two Spartan vehicles.

"I screamed STOP, STOP, STOP. However, the British FAC said they were rogue pilots working on their own. They had flipped to their own radio frequencies so they couldn’t talk to them.”

L/Cpl Christopher Boakes, a radio operator with the Royal Engineers, was travelling in a Spartan vehicle when the patrol came under attack. He said he had heard on the radio networks that the American A-10 pilots were searching for Iraqi artillery in the area.

"They were looking for an anti-aircraft gun but they could not find it so they were given a free rein,” he said.

“The free rein was to the west of us.”

Andrew Walker, the Oxfordshire deputy assistant coroner, told L/Cpl Finney: “You are a brave man. You are to be commended for what you did.”

The inquest into the death of L/Cpl Hull, from East Knoyle, Wilts, is expected to last for five days.

telegraph.co.uk
 

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