congratulatons to team canada hockey mens gold medal win


EagleSmack
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Obviously you don't have a good memory. It was actually the WHA. And the reason it failed was because it was founded by yankees. Case closed...

Oh and let me rephrase something. I was wrong about calling it the WHL. It failed because it could not compete with the NHL.

Case closed.
 
EagleSmack
#62
I love ending on a good note.

Good weekend all eh.
 
Risus
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

I love ending on a good note.

Good weekend all eh.

LOL, more like a sour note but have a good weekend anyway...
 
talloola
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Either you are smoking some of your wacky tobacco, or your yankee ego has taken over.
Putting a team in Phoenix is the mentality that you have running the NHL.
If Montreal or Toronto wants to leave the league there is diddly squat the NHL can do about it. The money for the players would be there, and they would be lining up at the doors to sign up.
As far as TV goes, one weekly game on CBS?? LOL, you can't be serious. That is a drop in the bucket. We hane sports channels, CBC, TSN, Sportsnet etc, who all have a number of games on a week.

Anyway it is one option that is out there. Fans in Canada would lap it up and not give a crap about the old NHL...

Canada has all kinds of tv hockey. We get NHL center ice,
brings all of the hockey games which are on all week from
all of the NHL, it only blacks out what we can get on
our local channels, and TSN and Sportsnet. There is the
odd game once in a while that is 'not' televised, few and
far between.

We can get anywhere from two or three, up to twelve or
fourteen games every night.

those in the u.s. can't compete with that, they are not interested, and don't
have the viewing public to watch that much hockey.
 
Mowich
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

It would be just like the CFL.

Nothing is like the CFL, EagleSmack. It is definitely a league of its own in more ways then one and it rocks supremely.
 
Mowich
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Why do you say that? Because the CFL is in Canada?

The leagues aren't even close. The CFL is the minor leagues of the NFL. You've got Quinton Porter as a QB up there. I watched him play at Boston College a number of times and I spent most of the time moaning.

NFL is the most boooooooring football on earth. Everything looks like it has been extremely well choreographed long before players set foot on the field. For pete's sake they need 4 chances at a TD, how sissy is that.
 
YukonJack
#67
CFL??

For pete's sakes, it needs an American quarterback, American coach, American has-beens, American never-was's and never-would-be's (you know, NFL rejects) on every team.

How sissy is that? Or perhaps, how hypocritical?
 
Risus
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

Nothing is like the CFL, EagleSmack. It is definitely a league of its own in more ways then one and it rocks supremely.

For sure.
 
Kreskin
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by Mowich View Post

Thanks for this, Kreskin. Would this have been a special event or was the size of the crowd indicative of the numbers that normally attend hockey games in GM place?

I believe it's sold out or near sold out all the time.

It was the Carolina Hurricanes a few years ago.
 
Kreskin
#70
I hate those CFL vs NFL arguments. NFL talent is obviously the gold standard and it continues to go up. The Super Bowls are turning out exceptional games. I like them both. They are very different. Some of the quirky rules in the CFL are rooted back to the Canadian Rugby Union of the 1800's. I like that it has focused on differentiating itself from the NFL and keeping with longstanding traditions.
 
talloola
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

I hate those CFL vs NFL arguments. NFL talent is obviously the gold standard and it continues to go up. The Super Bowls are turning out exceptional games. I like them both. They are very different. Some of the quirky rules in the CFL are rooted back to the Canadian Rugby Union of the 1800's. I like that it has focused on differentiating itself from the NFL and keeping with longstanding traditions.

I love the CFL, it's ours, it's not a copycat, it's unique,
and exciting. When many of the u.s. players are interviewed
they have very good things to say about our game, and they are
surprised when they can't 'just' dominate the game immediately, and usually never do, they
have to get use to the game, they have to work hard, and
they like it, it has character.
 
EagleSmack
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

I love the CFL, it's ours, it's not a copycat, it's unique,
and exciting. When many of the u.s. players are interviewed
they have very good things to say about our game, and they are
surprised when they can't 'just' dominate the game immediately, and usually never do, they
have to get use to the game, they have to work hard, and
they like it, it has character.

Many of the American players that play in the CFL couldn't dominate in college. That's why they are in the CFL. Quinton Porter the starting QB for the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Replaced by the back-up QB at Boston College Matt Ryan. Played on the practice squads for two NHL teams and is now starting QB for Hamilton.

The best players, American AND Canadian play in the NFL.
 
EagleSmack
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

Canada has all kinds of tv hockey. We get NHL center ice,
brings all of the hockey games which are on all week from
all of the NHL, it only blacks out what we can get on
our local channels, and TSN and Sportsnet. There is the
odd game once in a while that is 'not' televised, few and
far between.

We can get anywhere from two or three, up to twelve or
fourteen games every night.

those in the u.s. can't compete with that, they are not interested, and don't
have the viewing public to watch that much hockey.

Then why are there 24 out of 30 teams here in the US? Why does Nashville Tennessee (for pete's sake) have a hockey team over Winnipeg? TENNESSEE! Why does Charlotte, North Carolina have a team over Hamilton?
 
talloola
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Many of the American players that play in the CFL couldn't dominate in college. That's why they are in the CFL. Quinton Porter the starting QB for the Hamilton Tiger Cats. Replaced by the back-up QB at Boston College Matt Ryan. Played on the practice squads for two NHL teams and is now starting QB for Hamilton.

The best players, American AND Canadian play in the NFL.

Absolutely, I understand that, doesn't mean that the CFL
isn't a very good and enjoyable league, lots of very good
american players do have quite
an adjustment to make when coming from NFL to CFL, and
even if the top players came to CFL, they would have to
make that adjustment, but they won't be here, the level
of that game is higher, that's pretty clear.

I don't think the CFL should be criticized and compared
to NFL as though it should be competetive with that league,
just like we don't criticize the AHL when talking about
it compared to the NHL, (but the AHL is played exactly the
same as NHL) so there is no adjustment to make, but if it
had different rules and different kinds of plays, then any
NHL player going to that league would have to make the
adjustment, might take a while.
 
talloola
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Then why are there 24 out of 30 teams here in the US? Why does Nashville Tennessee (for pete's sake) have a hockey team over Winnipeg? TENNESSEE! Why does Charlotte, North Carolina have a team over Hamilton?

ask bettman, he is the one who made the blunders.
why doesn't bettman try to introduce nhl hockey into the large hockey crazy
cities, instead of grabbing money from rich u.s. millionaires, who don't have
a clue, and think they are going to be successful, after hearing the b.c. bettman
offers them.
 
Risus
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

The best players, American AND Canadian play in the NFL.

519 Canadian players, 216 US players in '08 - '09 season in the NHL. That should tell you something...
 
Risus
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

ask bettman, he is the one who made the blunders.
why doesn't bettman try to introduce nhl hockey into the large hockey crazy
cities, instead of grabbing money from rich u.s. millionaires, who don't have
a clue, and think they are going to be successful, after hearing the b.c. bettman
offers them.

You have hit the nail right on the head with this.
 
talloola
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

You have hit the nail right on the head with this.

ha, I reread my post, and I meant to say b.s., not b.c.

lol
 
Risus
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

ha, I reread my post, and I meant to say b.s., not b.c.

lol

LOL, I figured you were referring to 'cr&p'. Means the same!
 
talloola
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

LOL, I figured you were referring to 'cr&p'. Means the same!

yeah, same family, it's all shovelled

lol
 
wulfie68
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by talloola View Post

ask bettman, he is the one who made the blunders.
why doesn't bettman try to introduce nhl hockey into the large hockey crazy
cities, instead of grabbing money from rich u.s. millionaires, who don't have
a clue, and think they are going to be successful, after hearing the b.c. bettman
offers them.

You're still not getting it, Talloola: Bettman is essentially the spokesman for the owners. The face. He's not a figurehead and he has some ideas of his own, but they don't move ahead without approval of the owners.

As for Bettman being responsible for all the mistakes, he wasn't the one who put forth franchises like the Kansas City Scouts, the Cleveland Barons, the California Golden Seals, the Atlanta Flames or the Colorado Rockies, all of which failed or had to be moved in the 70s. The NHL has had its eye on the financial candy of the US TV market for decades and has made repeated attempts to secure a piece of it. Arguably under Bettman's watch they have done a better job because while some franchises aren't entirely healthy, they aren't moving or folding anymore.

Bettman wasn't the one that changed the economics of the NHL by making stupidly inflationary salary offers to free agents in an effort to buy a championship (see Ron Caron, Neil Smith, Bob Clark, Cliff Fletcher, Glen Sather and others), that in the end meant that Winnipeg and Quebec could no longer afford their teams.

I'm not going to say franchises in Nashville or Phoenix make a whole lot of sense to me, but at the same time, I'll balance that by admitting that Winnipeg and Quebec City don't have the population (or corporate base) to sustain them either. People bring up Hamilton time and again, and while I agree that it might be a good place for another team, the OWNERS of the Leafs, Sabres and Wings have a lot to say about the placement of new franchises in their back yard, that might affect their revenue streams.

It bothers me to see this whole "hockey is ours" mentality, especially from people who cheer on the American and European players on their hometown team's rosters. Whats best for the game is to allow the market to grow, so more people are exposed and more kids grow up playing the game and wanting to be the next Sid/Ovechkin/Ryan Miller. Growing something is not always linear and painless. Take pride in what we have, don't get hung up in resenting what others do or don't.
 
EagleSmack
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

519 Canadian players, 216 US players in '08 - '09 season in the NHL. That should tell you something...

Yes, that the NHL has the best players.
 
Avro
#83
Wow....someone is actually defending Bettman...must be related.

Worst case scenario for Gary.....all Canadian final....or even better...all Canadian semi's.

I was at the centennial celebration on Dec 4 in Montreal and I wasn't to far from Gary and during the whole spectacle he kept looking at his watch. I guess he had an important meeting coming up to get a team in Nebraska....untapped market you know....while three viable Canadian cities seethe.

The guy is a weasel and always will be.
 
TenPenny
#84
Gary's job is to provide a sustainable income stream for the entertainment business known as the NHL.

He's a slimy little creep, but he's doing what he's told to do by the owners.

Hockey needs to go where the money is, and that's more corporate, tv ratings, and the fans, in that order.

I cannot see Hamilton getting a team, because both Toronto and Buffalo would put a stop to that.

Quebec City and Windypig are way too small to make teams sustainable - Ottawa can barely do it, and that was with the highflying Nortel and Corel IT money.

NHL hockey is a big money game these days.
 
EagleSmack
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

Gary's job is to provide a sustainable income stream for the entertainment business known as the NHL.

He's a slimy little creep, but he's doing what he's told to do by the owners.

Hockey needs to go where the money is, and that's more corporate, tv ratings, and the fans, in that order.

I cannot see Hamilton getting a team, because both Toronto and Buffalo would put a stop to that.

Quebec City and Windypig are way too small to make teams sustainable - Ottawa can barely do it, and that was with the highflying Nortel and Corel IT money.

NHL hockey is a big money game these days.

Do you think an All Canadian City Only hockey league would be viable and sustainable?
 
wulfie68
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by Avro View Post

Wow....someone is actually defending Bettman...must be related.

Worst case scenario for Gary.....all Canadian final....or even better...all Canadian semi's.

I was at the centennial celebration on Dec 4 in Montreal and I wasn't to far from Gary and during the whole spectacle he kept looking at his watch. I guess he had an important meeting coming up to get a team in Nebraska....untapped market you know....while three viable Canadian cities seethe.

The guy is a weasel and always will be.

A) I'm not related to him, I just hate seeing people rag on others for mistakes that aren't theirs. The NHL has a history of people in upper management positions making mistakes or making decisions that aren't in the best interests of the long term health of the sport, as I tried to illustrate.

B) I agree he's a weasel at times but tell me guys like Eagleson and Goodenow weren't too. Thats not saying all of the above only did things that were bad for the game.

The question wasn't posed to me, but I'll answer it: I do NOT think an all-Canadian hockey league would be sustainable or good for the game. We're hockey-mad up here but keeping the game here does nothing to grow the sport: if anything isolating ourselves from the rest of the world means our talent would stagnate and probably fall off a bit. And economically, it wouldn't work: the NHL and to a degree the KHL in Russia have driven salaries that would make it impossible for a Canadian only league to compete. The (anti-christ of the NHL) New York Rangers are one of the richest franchises in the game, there's a lot of money behind Mike Illich's Detroit Red Wings too, to name two teams that could outbid any team in Canada for players... and I don't doubt there are more that could, should their owners so desire. A Canadian only professional league is a nationalist fantasy, nothing more.
 
EagleSmack
#87
Thanks Wulfie.
 
TenPenny
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Do you think an All Canadian City Only hockey league would be viable and sustainable?

Nope, for several reasons, but the main one is money.

Money is what makes professional sports work. There would not be enough money to make a Canadian city ony league draw the best players, which would dilute the product, and make it uninteresting.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that NHL hockey is not a patriotic hobby, it's big business in the entertainment industry. Expecting to have more Canadian teams, or for more Canadians to play in Canadian cities, is unrealistic.
 
EagleSmack
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

Nope, for several reasons, but the main one is money.

Money is what makes professional sports work. There would not be enough money to make a Canadian city ony league draw the best players, which would dilute the product, and make it uninteresting.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that NHL hockey is not a patriotic hobby, it's big business in the entertainment industry. Expecting to have more Canadian teams, or for more Canadians to play in Canadian cities, is unrealistic.

That is what I thought as well. However not being from Canada I could not really speak for Canadians.

Thank you.
 
talloola
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68 View Post

You're still not getting it, Talloola: Bettman is essentially the spokesman for the owners. The face. He's not a figurehead and he has some ideas of his own, but they don't move ahead without approval of the owners.

As for Bettman being responsible for all the mistakes, he wasn't the one who put forth franchises like the Kansas City Scouts, the Cleveland Barons, the California Golden Seals, the Atlanta Flames or the Colorado Rockies, all of which failed or had to be moved in the 70s. The NHL has had its eye on the financial candy of the US TV market for decades and has made repeated attempts to secure a piece of it. Arguably under Bettman's watch they have done a better job because while some franchises aren't entirely healthy, they aren't moving or folding anymore.

Bettman wasn't the one that changed the economics of the NHL by making stupidly inflationary salary offers to free agents in an effort to buy a championship (see Ron Caron, Neil Smith, Bob Clark, Cliff Fletcher, Glen Sather and others), that in the end meant that Winnipeg and Quebec could no longer afford their teams.

I'm not going to say franchises in Nashville or Phoenix make a whole lot of sense to me, but at the same time, I'll balance that by admitting that Winnipeg and Quebec City don't have the population (or corporate base) to sustain them either. People bring up Hamilton time and again, and while I agree that it might be a good place for another team, the OWNERS of the Leafs, Sabres and Wings have a lot to say about the placement of new franchises in their back yard, that might affect their revenue streams.

It bothers me to see this whole "hockey is ours" mentality, especially from people who cheer on the American and European players on their hometown team's rosters. Whats best for the game is to allow the market to grow, so more people are exposed and more kids grow up playing the game and wanting to be the next Sid/Ovechkin/Ryan Miller. Growing something is not always linear and painless. Take pride in what we have, don't get hung up in resenting what others do or don't.

I don't think he is just a spokesman for the owners, they are a
group who makes decisions together, then he speaks, and is
very much a politician at that time. Sure we can't blame
him alone, but he is the talking head, so the responsibility
to explain the moves is his. What was done years ago, is
also the responsibility of the commissioners at that time.

The NHL are topping up the huge losses of certain cities in
the u.s. to keep them afloat, same thing could have been
done with winnipeg and quebec, now that the cost of purchasing a team has gone through the roof, those two
canadian cities will never be able to afford it, but they
had their teams back then, just like those useless cities
with no interested fans have theirs now, and those cities are receiving lots of help to sustain them, and they even
had to buy the phoenix coyotes.

Hockey is ours, it is our game, always will be, that only
means 'pride' that we started it, and it will always be
our game, that has nothing to do with being flexible and
enjoying watching the game grow, of course we want the
game to grow.

Bettman (and friends) should have wined and dined the
seattle area many years ago, and given them good reasons
to want a team in the NHL. Makes so much sense, would
complete the west coast system of teams, the NHL has never
even mentioned them, always seem to travel south, insane.

Yes, I know about the leafs, sabres 'not' wanting another
team in that area, probably would affect the sabres more
than the leafs, and of course the leafs, being the richest
team in the league, have lots of power.

Well it's nice to finally hear someone put the blame where
it belongs re: inflation of salaries, and not on the players, and yes I do remember when owners were fighting
over certain players, and handed them huge salaries, just
to 'get' that player, I remember St. Louis being the first
to do that, forget the player. No Salary cap then, and I
agree with the salary cap, that was a good move for the
sake of balancing out the competative abilities of all
teams.
It's also nice that rangers, and other rich organizations
can't buy teams any longer. That wasn't much different
than montreal and toronto gathering up all of the good
juniors years ago, and keeping them for themselves, before
there was a 'draft'. People talk about them as though they
were such powerhouses, of course they were, I'll take this
one and this one and all of those, and, oh, here are the
left overs for all of you to fight over.
I was a habs fan back then, loved that team, 'why not',
who wouldn't.

I don't understand why the owners aren't having a war inside
of the NHL, because of all the millions they have to fork
over to support failing teams.

Bettman and friends could have gone a little slower, and
given the league time to grow, takes a long time in markets
that don't even know the game, instead of cash and grab
mentality, to get their purchase money for the teams, then
sit back and watch them fail. Not much forethought in my
opinion.

I don't like the word resentment much, doesn't fit me, but
I do observe over the years, and notice that 'money' seems
to be the bottom line for bettman & friends, take the
money, then hope the team will do well, without any economic
studies to find out how much interest will be there after
that money is deposited.

I've watched 'our game' for over 60 years, love it and
will continue to love it, seem commissioners come and
go, and the buck stops with them in the eyes of the fans,
they have no one else to look to as the person responsible,
they never see the 'whole team' inside the NHL, as I said
before he is the spokesman, and has to take the flack, that's
life, it's his responsibility. I also don't like
the power of the eastern owners over the NHL. They don't
have much interest in the needs of the west. I listened
to a couple of gen. mgrs. being interviewed one day, and
they said as far as they are concerned it is irritating
when the western teams come to their cities to play, the
fan turn out drops, and "it would be good for us if we
only played eastern conference teams", so they couldn't
care less about the west, they don't want to have to travel
more, like the west does, and are not interested in helping
to balance the schedule at all, that will be forced on
them, I hope.
 

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