Harper's negative image hurts positive message


hiti
#1
Harper's negative image hurts positive message
By BRIAN LAGHI
http://tinyurl.com/7nw78
OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF

Friday, December 2, 2005, Page A4

Canadian voters like Stephen Harper's message. They're just not so sure they like him.

A new survey conducted for The Globe and Mail and CTV shows that the Conservatives appear to have hit a nerve with voters by pushing the need for a new broom to clean out the Liberals. However, those same voters are leery about Mr. Harper leading the party that would act as that broom.

This is news? I've finally given up on Mr. Harper. To date, I've always wanted to like the guy and I've given him a large benefit of the doubt. Until a few days ago, that is. Until when he launched his Quebec campaign. He crossed the Ottawa river to Gatineau, where he got up on stage, surrounded by 7-8 Quebec candidates (most of which had travelled for hours to be there). He announced something or other (probably that he was proud of his candidates or some such, but I don't recall). Then he said that an assistant would give a list of candidate names, he turned around and walked out a side door. You could see the jaws drop when the candidates were left stranded on stage without having been presented. Josee Verner, who had come with five points (she got 31% of the vote, three times the average in Quebec!) of winning in her Quebec City riding, tried to recover by talking directly to the journalists present but the damage was done.

Conclusion: the message was loud and clear. Mr. Harper thinks about "things" but not about "people", INCLUDING THOSE WHO MAY BECOME MEMBERS OF HIS CAUCUS. And that is a serious character flaw in a man who aspires to become PM. I wish him well and sincerely hope that the Tories do well in the upcoming election. But he's squandered my reserve of human sympathy.

Along the same line, there's grumbling in the Tory who's-who in Quebec. Basically, they get a sense that Mr. Harper not only doesn't care about them but also that he doesn't like them, period. In particular, one of his principal Quebec leadership-campaign organizers in Quebec has alluded to (while still remaining a Tory) not voting CPC this time. When all's said and done, Tories here tend to think "aahhh, shaddap!" when they're told that winning over Quebec is a priority. If it is one, it's a long-term one.

And no, all this has nothing to do with Mr. Harper having a hidden agenda ... he's just a , that's all.
 
capebretoner
#2
hiti i must say that I agree with you 100%

However I lost all confidence in the man when a reporter asked, "Mr Harper do you love Canada"

And his response was, "Well, I said Canada is a great country....." Not yes...

Sure you could say that it is a given, but if it was a given you think that he would of said it without thinking, and THEN have to think about the long speach about potential and how evil the Liberals are. NOT the other way around.
 
no1important
#3
A lot of Conservative problems is Harpers "bad image" (and other members). I think he will be replaced as leader after this election, by who I dunno, but they need someone who is more moderate and more humanized to replace him, but no one in that party comes to mind, Harris, Klein, McKay would not be good choices.

Th Conservatives really screwed up by not electing Stronach as leader. But I guess the old caveman did not want a female leader. The way they insulted her shows what they are really made of. This is not the same conservative party that was around in Kim Campbells time. All the small "C" conservatives are basically gone and it is a party made up of mostly reformers and that is the problem.

I can see Stronach becoming PM within a few years.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by capebretoner

hiti i must say that I agree with you 100%

However I lost all confidence in the man when a reporter asked, "Mr Harper do you love Canada"

And his response was, "Well, I said Canada is a great country....." Not yes...

Sure you could say that it is a given, but if it was a given you think that he would of said it without thinking, and THEN have to think about the long speach about potential and how evil the Liberals are. NOT the other way around.

Why should Harper play that American "wrap myself in the Flag" game?

I love a lot of Canadian people.

I love the outdoors, the bush in Canada.

I love our freedom.

I am proud of our history.

Do I love Canada? Don't know. I'm not sure what that means.

I think Harper gave an extremely honest answer.
 
capebretoner
#5
So you don't think that a PM for our country doesn't necessarily have to "love" it?

I think that they do, loving something means that you will do anything that has to be done to make sure that it survives. Means that you will sacrifice everything if you have to for its well being. Anything less means that you are doing it for the pay cheque and the power.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

A lot of Conservative problems is Harpers "bad image" (and other members). I think he will be replaced as leader after this election, by who I dunno, but they need someone who is more moderate and more humanized to replace him, but no one in that party comes to mind, Harris, Klein, McKay would not be good choices.

Th Conservatives really screwed up by not electing Stronach as leader. But I guess the old caveman did not want a female leader. The way they insulted her shows what they are really made of. This is not the same conservative party that was around in Kim Campbells time. All the small "C" conservatives are basically gone and it is a party made up of mostly reformers and that is the problem.

I can see Stronach becoming PM within a few years.

Belinda Stronach is a complete idiot with no principles and no understanding of the Parliamentary system. Were she Prime Minister, our choices would be clear.

Her little fiasco with having the Ontario Conservatives present their budget in a TV studio completely did her in with me. (and the Ontario PC Party)

May God forgive me, were I an Otario person, I might have voted for McGuinty last time.

And man, would I be regretting it now.

I pray the spoiled little brat gets kicked this time around.

Let Daddy go back to paying her $7 million per annum for nothing.
 
no1important
#7
Well I love Canada, I do not even have to think about it. I always wear a "Canadian flag pin" on my jacket. Canada is the best country on the Planet. I am not "wrapped up like "W" but neverthe less I do love my country. What is not to love? We have more freedoms than anywhere else, sure we are not perfect but who is?

As far as I am concerned people like Harper that have to think about whether they love Canada are traitors and should leave the country for "greener pastures" if they can find them.
 
no1important
#8
Quote:

Belinda Stronach is a complete idiot with no principles and no understanding of the Parliamentary system. Were she Prime Minister, our choices would be clear.

What choices would that be?

I think she knows how things run quite well.

Quote:

I pray the spoiled little brat gets kicked this time around.

Let Daddy go back to paying her $7 million per annum for nothing.

Well you Harperites sure love bashing her, eh? Any other Conservative never been bashed like this for leaving. Maybe Harperites do not like women???? Being the old fashioned dinosaurs that they are.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Quote:

Belinda Stronach is a complete idiot with no principles and no understanding of the Parliamentary system. Were she Prime Minister, our choices would be clear.

What choices would that be?

I think she knows how things run quite well.

Quote:

I pray the spoiled little brat gets kicked this time around.

Let Daddy go back to paying her $7 million per annum for nothing.

Well you Harperites sure love bashing her, eh? Any other Conservative never been bashed like this for leaving. Maybe Harperites do not like women???? Being the old fashioned dinosaurs that they are.

It is not that she is a woman.

It is that she is an idiot.

Did you read my post? It was her actions INSIDE the Ontario PC party that pissed me off. I swore if she won the CPC leadership I would quit voting.

Now if you could bring back Deb Gray.........and Rona Ambrose might be a choice sometime in the future.

Oh yeah.

I don't like opportunistic traitors either.
 
capebretoner
#10
I agree, Stronach is not really a good person to compare CPC members with.

However why would the party continue to bash her when they know it makes them look bad to the rest of the country. Did her actions really come as a suprise? Where people in the party really that upset when she left?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by capebretoner

I agree, Stronach is not really a good person to compare CPC members with.

However why would the party continue to bash her when they know it makes them look bad to the rest of the country. Did her actions really come as a suprise? Where people in the party really that upset when she left?

Not me.

Glad to see her go to where she belongs......with the rest of the corrupt, unprincipled, opportunistic scum on the gov't side.
 
no1important
#12
It is no surprise she was an opportunist when she decided to run as Conservative leader or when she joined the Liberals. I guess she figured she had more opportunities with the Liberals.

I always figured she was more suited of being in the Liberal party than Conservative party anyways.

But it will be up to the people of her riding if she gets re elected.

Personally I do not believe she is an idiot, I believe she is quite smart. I would never vote for her though, unless she was running in my riding as an NDP candidate and that will never happen.
 
capebretoner
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Quote: Originally Posted by capebretoner

I agree, Stronach is not really a good person to compare CPC members with.

However why would the party continue to bash her when they know it makes them look bad to the rest of the country. Did her actions really come as a suprise? Where people in the party really that upset when she left?

Not me.

Glad to see her go to where she belongs......with the rest of the corrupt, unprincipled, opportunistic scum on the gov't side.

You answered my last question but what about the most important political one:
Quote:

However why would the party continue to bash her when they know it makes them look bad to the rest of the country?

 
Alberta'sfinest
#14
There's just something about harper that makes him impersonable, and how the hell does someone like that expect to butter up foreign leaders to get the best deal for Canada? He also is to quick to give into American pressure on our policy. If I was asked if I loved Canada? I'd say that I'd lay down my life for this country, and that would be my gut reaction.
I plainly just don't like the conservatives because I see what king ralph does with our vast oil wealth, and we don't need another dick to give the rich another tax cut. Doesn't everyone remember that harper supported the unproven missile defence program? The way I see it, the liberals are a little shady, but they got the job done. I have no doubt that the conservatives would be any better really. They just want to sell our health care down the river, create drug laws that make marijuana a bigger problem, and do the common Conservative thing of lining rich peoples pockets while scrapping neccessary and cost saving social programs. I'd rather have a bunch of corrupt liberals, than a bunch of people that are going to do the opposite of what needs to be done. I'm trying to help create a better oppositiong though, so i'm voting NDP.
 
Reverend Blair
#15
Harper is actually a good representative for the CPC. Cold, calculating, out of touch with the majority of Canadians, willing to bow to the religious right, wanting to turn Canada into a mini-me of George Bush's Amerika.

Fortunately, most Canadians see right through him.

The continued bashing of Stronach and Brisson, and the latest CPC drive to attack Svend Robinson in a riding where they are not even a factor, shows the vindictiveness and negativity of the Conservative Party. That streak has always been there, but it's grown so deep that it now completely defines the CPC. Go to a Conservative website where the party faithful gather...you'll never meet a nastier bunch of bastards.
 
iamcanadian
#16
It's pretty hard to love a beautiful Country like Canada with all the warts all over it because of its corrupt civil service and the perpetual lack of democratic powers to remove them.

So Harpers answer is honest and the way most Canadians feel today.

Most everyone here left some other country because of the kind of political/social corruption we have now in our own public administration and governance practices.
 
Reverend Blair
#17
Quote:

Most everyone here left some other country because of the kind of political/social corruption we have now in our own public administration and governance practices.

Most everyone where? Most of the people on this site were born in Canada. The political and social corruption was evident under the last Conservative government in spades. Canada's first political scandal (and the biggest if adjusted to today's dollars) was the Pacific Scandal, which happened under Sir John A. MacDonald...Canada's first Prime Minister and an avowed Conservative.

Quote:

So Harpers answer is honest and the way most Canadians feel today.

That would mean that Harper is going to get more than half of the popular vote. Are you willing to put $100 on Harper getting more than 50% of the popular vote, iamcanadian?

Quote:

It's pretty hard to love a beautiful Country like Canada

At least if you happen to be Stephen Harper.
 
iamcanadian
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Most everyone where? Most of the people on this site were born in Canada.

If so then most of their ancestors left and came here for the general reasons I stated.

Canada is becomming more and more like those countries people left to come here. It needs to be stopped and reveresed.

Canada was the becon of opportunity to those that came here. It's become a place where discrimination and unfairness is running rampant in all government activities as everyone tries to prevert our systems and practices to their personal or group self-interest.

It must stop, and Canada strive to become the place of opportunity, freedom and equallity for all peoples, races and cultures. No one should be more equal than anyone else here, because this is what brought most people here in the first place.
 
Reverend Blair
#19
Quote:

If so then most of their ancestors left and came here for the general reasons I stated.

Mine came here for the land. From 4 separate countries. None of them are worried about Canada being as corrupt as any of those countries. That includes Ireland, BTW.
 
iamcanadian
#20
You're just making that up. I doubt you know why your ancestors came here or what their life was like in their country of origin at the time.

Ireland is a good one. I guess they had no political problems there worth leaving over. Maybe trying avoid a malatov or two made them leave.
 
Reverend Blair
#21
Quote:

You're just making that up. I doubt you know why your ancestors came here or what their life was like in their country of origin at the time.

I'm not just making up. My ancestors came here because:

Irish...Potato famine brought on by British landlords and a lack of crop diversity. They came here for the land.

German...religious persecution in Germany. They moved to US and then headed for Canada (a few generations later) as United Empire Loyalists. My great-grandfather then returned to the US, then came to Canada for the land.

Ukrainian...Land owners in the homeland. They ran into trouble after backing the wrong side (Russian royalty) in one of the many minor revolutions that preceded the Russian revolution. They came to Canada for the land.

Polish...they were poor tenants in Poland...basically share-croppers They came here for the land.

My wife's German grandparents left Germany when the Nazis took power in the 1930s. They chose Canada for the land.

Her Scottish ancestors moved to the Maritimes after they were booted out to make room for sheep. They moved to Saskatchewan for the land.
 
Alberta'sfinest
#22
The one side of my family came here because they were offered land, another as representatives of the catholic church, and my moms side were German citizens that were trying to escape Russian collectivization of farmland. I know where I came from, and I know what I stand for. I don't love the government, but I love the Nation itself. I don't like the government because it's misused by the majority to discriminate against sub cultures that they don't agree with.
 
iamcanadian
#23
Well, Rev each of the reasons they left was directly tied to politics at the time. They came here to get away from that, not to get land as you put it.

They were not happy where they were and enticed here because the land deals was offered to them that was better than they had. They left for political reasons and this was the best place because of the opportunities offered by a good sound country without the same policial/corruption/unfairness problems plaguing them where they came from.

Judging from the current immigration trends to Canada none of your ancestors would have come here if they were back home where they came from today.

I don't see why Canada cannot become the place of greater opportunity it was then, and the people immigrating here from those places today, since we do need people here and they have too many people in those same countries today.
 
Reverend Blair
#24
But you made the claim that Canada was more corrupt than those places, iam(not)canadian. That's simply untrue. Canada is still less corrupt than the Ukraine and Poland. It is arguably about the same or maginally better than Ireland/Scotland/Britain and Germany.

I was talking to a guy from Nigeria last night. He's excited as hell about getting a chance to vote without having to worry about getting shot for supporting the wrong party. Keep on insisting that Canada is the most corrupt country on earth though.

You want to talk about corruption, but you base it only on inflated numbers and accusations that you can't back up with facts. You consider any policy decision that you don't agree with to be evidence of corruption. You try to paint anybody who doesn't agree with your political position as corrupt. So give us some fact-based evidence. I've given evidence of corruption within the CPC on this board. You've pointedly avoided doing the same while claiming that the Liberals and NDP are somehow corrupt.
 
iamcanadian
#25
I said the most corrupt per capita. i.e. the total amount stolen per person citizen.

In this case, Canada is more corrupt than Nigeria, since they don't have the Billions to steal from that we have.

Anyone who has ever worked for the government that I have spoken to about this agrees with my view that our non-elected administrators managing public money are pretty much all corrupt and skimming off money and jobs for their friends and family.

It's no different than in other countries, only here it involves vastly larger sums, and the system and policians do less about corruption here than is done elsewhere.

Altogether we are a more corrupt country than most, but are only perceived to be less corrupt because we do less about our corruption and cover it up more to advance an image that we are less corrupt.

It may be true that our politicians are less corrupt here, but not our non-elected administrators. Thay are the ones that are more corrupt that in other countries.
 
Said1
Free Thinker
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by iamcanadian


It may be true that our politicians are less corrupt here, but not our non-elected administrators. Thay are the ones that are more corrupt that in other countries.

Even Mexico. Noo. Really??
 
iamcanadian
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by iamcanadian

It's no different than in other countries, only here it involves vastly larger sums, and the system and policians do less about corruption here than is done elsewhere.

Altogether we are a more corrupt country than most, but are only perceived to be less corrupt because we do less about our corruption and cover it up more to advance an image that we are less corrupt.

It may be true that our politicians are less corrupt here, but not our non-elected administrators. Thay are the ones that are more corrupt that in other countries.

Again on a per capita basis.

In mexico they skim a hundred bucks for every Million that is skimmed here.
 
Reverend Blair
#28
So you aren't really talking about corruption, iam(not)canadian. What you are talking about is greed. The limitations you are placing on the subject are inherently dishonest...corrupt...because they unfairly limit the criteria. Nevermind though, let's play by your corrupt rules.

Are you going to include the CPC in your judgement of that? Better have a hard look at them. What about astro-turfs fighting Kyoto with funding from Exxon? Isn't trying to hide that your funding comes from the source of the problem corrupt? Speaking of hiding where funding comes from, what's with all of those numbered companies making donations to the CPC? Why is Stephen Harper afraid to reveal where the funding for his run at the leadership of the CPC came from? Why did the CPC protect Tyson and Cargill during the BSE thing?

I'm all for limiting corruption as much as possible. That's one of the reasons why I won't vote for Stephen Harper and his corrupt Conservatives.
 
iamcanadian
#29
I am of the view that policians in this country are not all that corrupt. In fact as a whole the politicians are less corruption here than anywhere.

The reason for this is that they don't control decisions that anyone would pay good money for, like they do in other places of the world, where politicians call the shots.

Here the corruption is in the hands of non-elected senior administrators in power for life, who call the tenders and issue cheque requisitions and make the recommendations that elected representatives are forced to accept.

If people don't start comming out with where the real source of corruption is, we will never get anywhere dealing with it. The politicians take the blame, if they know what's good for them, but they are just puppets for the administrators with life-long public jobs who do all the corruption at their level, and never get replaced. The politicians do what they are told and act as the escapegoats as needed when word gets out.
 
Reverend Blair
#30
Wow, you just displayed more ignorance of how the federal government works in one sentence than most of your cohorts can manage in an entire paragraph.
 

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