Dumb ministers

benny_patrick7
#1
Canada has new cabinet. I watched today on CTV interview with two new ministers, environment and natural resources. The host asked minister of environment how he was going to reconcile the needs of economy with protection of environment, to which minister responded in a pretty long speech how important it is to reconcile economy with environment, but didn't say a single word on how he was going to do it. What is funny is that the host didn't have brains or courage to point out to the Minister that he hasn't actually answered the question.

Then there came a turn of Minister of Natural Resources. The host asked minister as to what was her plans of action as a minister. And she answered that in the nearest weeks, she will be talking to the people in the field to find out what their problems were. Effectively, her response was: "I have no idea what I am going to do".

Here is my suggestion to any host how to interview a minister: ask him what is his education, what is his experience, how his education and experience is relevant to the portfolio that he is receiving. I would ask for example the new Minister of environment why does he think that he would be better minister of environment than someone with doctorate in Environmental studies.

I just wonder how stupid we must be as people to allow appointment of ministers to the field where they have no education, no experience, nothing at all which would justify their appointment. You would probably not hire a doorman who doesn't have experience in this field.
 
Risus
#2
I agree to a certain extant, it would make sense for a lawyer or judge to be justice minister, for example, but unfortunately it has been this way for years... There will be portfolios where there won't be an expert in the ruling party.
 
Socrates the Greek
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Canada has new cabinet. I watched today on CTV interview with two new ministers, environment and natural resources. The host asked minister of environment how he was going to reconcile the needs of economy with protection of environment, to which minister responded in a pretty long speech how important it is to reconcile economy with environment, but didn't say a single word on how he was going to do it. What is funny is that the host didn't have brains or courage to point out to the Minister that he hasn't actually answered the question.

Then there came a turn of Minister of Natural Resources. The host asked minister as to what was her plans of action as a minister. And she answered that in the nearest weeks, she will be talking to the people in the field to find out what their problems were. Effectively, her response was: "I have no idea what I am going to do".

Here is my suggestion to any host how to interview a minister: ask him what is his education, what is his experience, how his education and experience is relevant to the portfolio that he is receiving. I would ask for example the new Minister of environment why does he think that he would be better minister of environment than someone with doctorate in Environmental studies.

I just wonder how stupid we must be as people to allow appointment of ministers to the field where they have no education, no experience, nothing at all which would justify their appointment. You would probably not hire a doorman who doesn't have experience in this field.

It doesn’t matter because Harper speaks instead of the ministers. Harper is a one man show………….
 
scratch
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Canada has new cabinet. I watched today on CTV interview with two new ministers, environment and natural resources. The host asked minister of environment how he was going to reconcile the needs of economy with protection of environment, to which minister responded in a pretty long speech how important it is to reconcile economy with environment, but didn't say a single word on how he was going to do it. What is funny is that the host didn't have brains or courage to point out to the Minister that he hasn't actually answered the question.

Then there came a turn of Minister of Natural Resources. The host asked minister as to what was her plans of action as a minister. And she answered that in the nearest weeks, she will be talking to the people in the field to find out what their problems were. Effectively, her response was: "I have no idea what I am going to do".

Here is my suggestion to any host how to interview a minister: ask him what is his education, what is his experience, how his education and experience is relevant to the portfolio that he is receiving. I would ask for example the new Minister of environment why does he think that he would be better minister of environment than someone with doctorate in Environmental studies.

I just wonder how stupid we must be as people to allow appointment of ministers to the field where they have no education, no experience, nothing at all which would justify their appointment. You would probably not hire a doorman who doesn't have experience in this field.

It's not a perfect world and not a perfect political system so you work with what you have, unfortunately.
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

The host asked minister as to what was her plans of action as a minister. And she answered that in the nearest weeks, she will be talking to the people in the field to find out what their problems were.

Are you serious? You think this is dumb? Research, and finding out what problems actually need fixing, is dumb? Frick, what I'd give for all politicians to actually go out and find out what needs doing before committing to a plan that may or may not touch the actual problems people have. Sounds smart to me.
 
Risus
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Socrates the Greek View Post

It doesn’t matter because Harper speaks instead of the ministers. Harper is a one man show………….

Hmmm, its not a one man show, but even if it was its better than the no man show of the liberals....
 
Socrates the Greek
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Hmmm, its not a one man show, but even if it was its better than the no man show of the liberals....

I wouldn’t be so quick to ascertain that, remember what I explained earlier on this thread, Harper is floating in a bad economy, his steps are not secure as a result of the Global economic turmoil which will hunt Harper during then next 2 years.....Smile...
 
Mulk
Conservative
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Hmmm, its not a one man show, but even if it was its better than the no man show of the liberals....


I agree, Dion refused to act as opposition what... 42 times when he was. No wonder the liberals lost so many seats, they thought they could be government, but they were a piss poor opposition.
 
TenPenny
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Canada has new cabinet. I watched today on CTV interview with two new ministers, environment and natural resources. The host asked minister of environment how he was going to reconcile the needs of economy with protection of environment, to which minister responded in a pretty long speech how important it is to reconcile economy with environment, but didn't say a single word on how he was going to do it. What is funny is that the host didn't have brains or courage to point out to the Minister that he hasn't actually answered the question.

Then there came a turn of Minister of Natural Resources. The host asked minister as to what was her plans of action as a minister. And she answered that in the nearest weeks, she will be talking to the people in the field to find out what their problems were. Effectively, her response was: "I have no idea what I am going to do".

Here is my suggestion to any host how to interview a minister: ask him what is his education, what is his experience, how his education and experience is relevant to the portfolio that he is receiving. I would ask for example the new Minister of environment why does he think that he would be better minister of environment than someone with doctorate in Environmental studies.

I just wonder how stupid we must be as people to allow appointment of ministers to the field where they have no education, no experience, nothing at all which would justify their appointment. You would probably not hire a doorman who doesn't have experience in this field.

You don't really understand the role of a cabinet minister, do you?
 
scratch
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

You don't really understand the role of a cabinet minister, do you?

Yes I do. He/she is simply a figure head. A mouth piece. All the work i.e., research, investigation and information gathering is done by the Minister's underlings/civil servants.
Clear enough.
 
benny_patrick7
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

Are you serious? You think this is dumb? Research, and finding out what problems actually need fixing, is dumb? Frick, what I'd give for all politicians to actually go out and find out what needs doing before committing to a plan that may or may not touch the actual problems people have. Sounds smart to me.

Person who has no education in the field can fix nothing. We should stop appointing ministers who have NO knowledge of the field of their ministry. Minister of health should be doctor, minister of education should be professor of education, etc. Isn't this obvious?
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Person who has no education in the field can fix nothing. We should stop appointing ministers who have NO knowledge of the field of their ministry. Minister of health should be doctor, minister of education should be professor of education, etc. Isn't this obvious?

While I understand that at face value that seems the best way to do things, sometimes an outside view of a problem is a wonderful thing. So long as the person is willing to learn about the field at least. There are, for example, 'efficiency experts' who can affect huge change in businesses without having to have previous knowledge of all the ins and outs.
 
Mulk
Conservative
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Person who has no education in the field can fix nothing. We should stop appointing ministers who have NO knowledge of the field of their ministry. Minister of health should be doctor, minister of education should be professor of education, etc. Isn't this obvious?


The ministers don't necessarily need to be experts in the field that they are minister of. Leadership and management are about knowing how to deal with the experts and interact with them to produce results. A good leader will surround themselves with experts and pool their knowledge to make good decisions.
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#14
Ministers are figureheads - props placed in strategic locations to make a government actually look like an efficient organization. The reality is - no matter who sits in the chair - it's all attached to the hand that gets inserted up the rectum to make the lips move.
Last edited by lone wolf; Nov 1st, 2008 at 02:08 PM..
 
benny_patrick7
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

While I understand that at face value that seems the best way to do things, sometimes an outside view of a problem is a wonderful thing. So long as the person is willing to learn about the field at least. There are, for example, 'efficiency experts' who can affect huge change in businesses without having to have previous knowledge of all the ins and outs.

I agree with you that sometimes fresh look can solve problems except that it has to be a fresh look from a person who knows the field, who knows the issues, who has education. There is no way a lawyer can handle issue of fishing in oceans. You need an ichthyologist here.

I heard an interview of our new minister of fisheries. She is supposed to participate in couple of weeks in an international symposium in Turkey related to the situation with tuna fish. How much do you know about situation in tuna fish? She knows about that much as you. She says that she was to be briefed about it. My question is why don't you send to this symposium the person who is delivering brief to the minister?
 
benny_patrick7
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Mulk View Post

The ministers don't necessarily need to be experts in the field that they are minister of. Leadership and management are about knowing how to deal with the experts and interact with them to produce results. A good leader will surround themselves with experts and pool their knowledge to make good decisions.

I have just one small question: why don't you let the experts make the decisions? You will save taxpayer one huge salary. And by the way, the minister who needs expert might be quite good doing some other job where he is an expert.
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

I have just one small question: why don't you let the experts make the decisions? You will save taxpayer one huge salary. And by the way, the minister who needs expert might be quite good doing some other job where he is an expert.

The simplest answer... because being an expert in your field does not necessarily make you a good manager for it. It also is often more important that you keep working as an expert in your field, rather than a governmental manager. It would be wasting resources to pull a researcher out of their role and start sending them to political meetings.
 
benny_patrick7
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

The simplest answer... because being an expert in your field does not necessarily make you a good manager for it. It also is often more important that you keep working as an expert in your field, rather than a governmental manager. It would be wasting resources to pull a researcher out of their role and start sending them to political meetings.

Well, there are people in every field who are good professionals and at the same time, good managers. These kind of people should be appointed ministers and not buddies of Prime Minister or just because a minister has a vagina. How long are we going to tolerate this stupidity?
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

... or just because a minister has a vagina. How long are we going to tolerate this stupidity?

I for one am done with it. Have a nice day.
 
gerryh
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Well, there are people in every field who are good professionals and at the same time, good managers. These kind of people should be appointed ministers and not buddies of Prime Minister or just because a minister has a vagina. How long are we going to tolerate this stupidity?



Benny...to put it blunty...... you're a frickin moron. Ministers are apointed from those that WE THE PEOPLE have elected. This is how ministers of a particular portfolia can be held accountable TO THE PEOPLE. If the Prime Minister was to start appointing NON ELECTED people to head the different governmental portfolio's they would be accountable to the Prime Minister ONLY and not to the people footing the bills. Is that what you would prefer? The Prime Minister appointing a "so called expert" to head these ministries? I tell ya...if you had half a brain you'd be dangerous. Thank God you don't.
 
Trex
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

Canada has new cabinet. I watched today on CTV interview with two new ministers, environment and natural resources. The host asked minister of environment how he was going to reconcile the needs of economy with protection of environment, to which minister responded in a pretty long speech how important it is to reconcile economy with environment, but didn't say a single word on how he was going to do it. What is funny is that the host didn't have brains or courage to point out to the Minister that he hasn't actually answered the question.

Then there came a turn of Minister of Natural Resources. The host asked minister as to what was her plans of action as a minister. And she answered that in the nearest weeks, she will be talking to the people in the field to find out what their problems were. Effectively, her response was: "I have no idea what I am going to do".

Here is my suggestion to any host how to interview a minister: ask him what is his education, what is his experience, how his education and experience is relevant to the portfolio that he is receiving. I would ask for example the new Minister of environment why does he think that he would be better minister of environment than someone with doctorate in Environmental studies.

I just wonder how stupid we must be as people to allow appointment of ministers to the field where they have no education, no experience, nothing at all which would justify their appointment. You would probably not hire a doorman who doesn't have experience in this field.

So Benny,
Is it new to you that politicians rarely answer the question posed to them?

I gotta tell ya Benny.....they pretty much all do that.....all the time.
A question from the media is viewed as free airtime to plug either themselves or sell some new unrelated plan.
It's really not about answering the question.
Its about controlling both the media and the message.

On another tack ministers rarely recieve a portfolio in which they have had previous expierence in.
Nobody is really to sure about what the logic is.
But that tends to be the way it works.

Ministers almost always take Deputy Ministers or other experts from within the ministry along with them on conferences and meetings so that their is almost always an expert on the portfolio in question in the room.

Trex
 
scratch
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Trex View Post

So Benny,
Is it new to you that politicians rarely answer the question posed to them?

I gotta tell ya Benny.....they pretty much all do that.....all the time.
A question from the media is viewed as free airtime to plug either themselves or sell some new unrelated plan.
It's really not about answering the question.
Its about controlling both the media and the message.

On another tack ministers rarely recieve a portfolio in which they have had previous expierence in.
Nobody is really to sure about what the logic is.
But that tends to be the way it works.

Ministers almost always take Deputy Ministers or other experts from within the ministry along with them on conferences and meetings so that their is almost always an expert on the portfolio in question in the room.

Trex

How old are you and where are you from?
 
Trex
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

How old are you and where are you from?

Old as the hills son.
Old enough to have paid a lifetime of taxes.

As to where I am from.
Army brat...grew up in 5 provinces and two countries.
Then I worked in 6 of em.

Now I just fart about over the pond.

Why ?

Trex
 
Risus
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

I agree with you that sometimes fresh look can solve problems except that it has to be a fresh look from a person who knows the field, who knows the issues, who has education. There is no way a lawyer can handle issue of fishing in oceans. You need an ichthyologist here.

I heard an interview of our new minister of fisheries. She is supposed to participate in couple of weeks in an international symposium in Turkey related to the situation with tuna fish. How much do you know about situation in tuna fish? She knows about that much as you. She says that she was to be briefed about it. My question is why don't you send to this symposium the person who is delivering brief to the minister?

I'm sure she knows more aboutthe tuna fishery than you do about the workings of the cabinet and cabinet ministers.

You should keep your mouth shut because every time you open it you sound ridiculous.
Last edited by Risus; Nov 1st, 2008 at 08:35 PM..Reason: spelling
 
scratch
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

I'm sure she knows more abouy the tuna fishery than you do about the workings of the cabinet and cabinet ministers.

You should keep your mouth shut because every time you open it you sound rediculous.

Gee Risus,
I didn't know `iculous` was `red`!
 
Risus
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by scratch View Post

Gee Risus,
I didn't know `iculous` was `red`!

Neither did I!
 
scratch
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Neither did I!

Oops!
 
karrie
No Party Affiliation
#28
*sigh* Okay, so, I was ticked over the 'hired just for' comment, but, after reading through the rest of the comments to benny in this thread, I gotta say, at least he's here talking about it rather than not paying attention at all. It's nice to see new faces (or sort of new, I see benny's been around a long time) and it's nice to have new things to argue about, even if the p.o.v ticks us off.
 
gerryh
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

*sigh* Okay, so, I was ticked over the 'hired just for' comment, but, after reading through the rest of the comments to benny in this thread, I gotta say, at least he's here talking about it rather than not paying attention at all. It's nice to see new faces (or sort of new, I see benny's been around a long time) and it's nice to have new things to argue about, even if the p.o.v ticks us off.



See....told ya you were too nice.
 
Mulk
Conservative
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by benny_patrick7 View Post

I have just one small question: why don't you let the experts make the decisions? You will save taxpayer one huge salary. And by the way, the minister who needs expert might be quite good doing some other job where he is an expert.

Consider a portfolio such as "education". Is there any single person who can be an expert in all aspects of education? Can a university professor be the minister of education? Will they be able to make all the decisions regarding grade school, adult education, technical schools etc? I think even a university professor would no doubt consult other experts in that field. The question becomes then, what kind of a leader or manger are they? Just because they are an expert in one field or another does not make them leadership material.
 

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