Gun Control is Completely Useless.


bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6811
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

Gun-Hating former president kept alive by armed secret service agents | World | News | USA

LOL isn't that the civilized use of a gun??
 
DaSleeper
+1
#6812
Self defense for ordinary citizens isn't civilized now?
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6813
Well, now let's see:-

How about the stats for Chicago for 2016. Is that what you mean by civilized?? And look at the stats so far for the New Year!! That is NOT civilized. It is a war zone!!
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#6814
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Well, now let's see:-

How about the stats for Chicago for 2016. Is that what you mean by civilized?? And look at the stats so far for the New Year!! That is NOT civilized. It is a war zone!!

Except that Chicago has done zip zero nada to enforce their gun laws.
 
Machjo
#6815
I'm leaning increasingly in favour of more liberal gun laws in exchange for less military spending. In fact, I might even be in favour of requiring that all high school students receive basic military training in the summer months as a part of the credits required to graduate from high school, with some maybe being exempted on medical or other compassionate grounds.

That way, we'd have a state in which even those who do not own a firearm would still know how to use one since they would all have learnt it in high school.
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6816
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

I'm leaning increasingly in favour of more liberal gun laws in exchange for less military spending. In fact, I might even be in favour of requiring that all high school students receive basic military training in the summer months as a part of the credits required to graduate from high school, with some maybe being exempted on medical or other compassionate grounds.

That way, we'd have a state in which even those who do not own a firearm would still know how to use one since they would all have learnt it in high school.

Oh right ....That way there would be fewer woundings and more homicides,,,,,great way to reduce the world's population though LOL.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Except that Chicago has done zip zero nada to enforce their gun laws.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2016...s-lax-gun-laws. Enough said??
 
Machjo
#6817
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Oh right ....That way there would be fewer woundings and more homicides,,,,,great way to reduce the world's population though LOL.

But it would save the taxpayer in military spending by reducing the need for as large a military force.
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6818
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

But it would save the taxpayer in military spending by reducing the need for as large a military force.

I believe we would be spending much more on our hospitals and doctors in place of Canada's military spending, We do not spend a whole lot now on military spending in Canada, but our medical care is very costly, Adding the care of gun violence victims would be prohibitive,. In the US, medical care such as it is, is very minimal and with Trump threatening to do away with what now exists, it is not even a decent alternative there,

Really bad solution in my opinion,
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#6819
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Oh right ....That way there would be fewer woundings and more homicides,,,,,great way to reduce the world's population though LOL.


Many countries have mandatory military "service", and your doomsday scenario has mainly, if at all, played out in those that also have draconian gun laws.
 
JamesBondo
#6820
Canada has never been as bad as Chicago. Not even 35 years ago when Canada didn't have the laws that it does today.
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6821
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

Many countries have mandatory military "service", and your doomsday scenario has mainly, if at all, played out in those that also have draconian gun laws.

Okay,,,,but remember one of Hitler's first acts was to loosen up Germany's gun laws, quite contrary to what most people believe, Also he discovered, the more often one declares a thing to be true, even when a lie, that lie or truth sticks,

So, it is well to research the truth of any statement, before accepting anything as truth. It is believed by many that loose gun laws result in better protection of a population when that is proven wrong.

By the way, I do not consider Canada's gun laws draconian, but very reasonable, I have never felt threatened in Canada, to unreasonable behavior on the part of another Canadian. Not in the US when short tempered drivers or neighbors get upset ........Not smart to engage in anyway whatsoever when so many carry guns in their cars or keep one next to the door.

I feel that removes the rights of many citizens to be fear free. No human being is perfect and if one makes a mistake in judgement in traffic or anywhere else, they should not pay with their life,

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

I'm leaning increasingly in favour of more liberal gun laws in exchange for less military spending. In fact, I might even be in favour of requiring that all high school students receive basic military training in the summer months as a part of the credits required to graduate from high school, with some maybe being exempted on medical or other compassionate grounds.

That way, we'd have a state in which even those who do not own a firearm would still know how to use one since they would all have learnt it in high school.

Just looking at the gun violence stats for the US for the first 4 days in the US so far for 2017

Gun Violence Archive ‏@GunDeaths 4h4 hours ago
The last 72 hours of gun violence in America:
-438 total incidents
-107 gun deaths
-257 gun injuries
Last edited by bluebyrd35; Jan 4th, 2017 at 01:31 PM..
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#6822
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Okay,,,,but remember one of Hitler's first acts was to loosen up Germany's gun laws, quite contrary to what most people believe, Also he discovered, the more often one declares a thing to be true, even when a lie, that lie or truth sticks,

So, it is well to research the truth of any statement, before accepting anything as truth. It is believed by many that loose gun laws result in better protection of a population when that is proven wrong.

By the way, I do not consider Canada's gun laws draconian, but very reasonable, I have never felt threatened in Canada, to unreasonable behavior on the part of another Canadian. Not in the US when short tempered drivers or neighbors get upset ........Not smart to engage in anyway whatsoever when so many carry guns in their cars or keep one next to the door.

I feel that removes the rights of many citizens to be fear free. No human being is perfect and if one makes a mistake in judgement in traffic or anywhere else, they should not pay with their life,


Just looking at the gun violence stats for the US for the first 4 days in the US so far for 2017

Gun Violence Archive ‏@GunDeaths 4h4 hours ago
The last 72 hours of gun violence in America:
-438 total incidents
-107 gun deaths
-257 gun injuries

IF gun laws are useless, should all gun regulations be done away with?? What options would be palatable to those that simply must have a gun or guns for whatever reason they believe in?? How doersone deal with the fanatical gun culture that exists in places like the US and other less civilized places It seems that itis the gun culture that is the problem and the guns are the symptoms of it .as well as the virtually continuous shootings that occur.
IF a society has chosen to live with a gun culture as we see to the ;south of uf...then they should stop complaining and reacting with such drama and shock when mass killing ttke place. It is their norm.

We have events like that in Canada.but we do NOT have the gun /violence culture that is part and parcel of the US society.

The US is an aggressive nation......so violence and the guns that are attached to it is a natural extension of the aggression. So.what is the answer?? or perhaps : What is the REAL issue here?
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6823
Decent gun laws are NOT useless. When guns are available without a waiting period or without a background check and can be bought or traded at gun shows or privately without any control whatever, it contravenes the whole purpose of keeping the guns out of the hands of those who will misuse them, That is and has always been my stance,

The real issue is many who post here feel good gun laws are useless and would like to see Canada adopt the same laws as the US. The title of the thread says it all. I am strongly against that!!
 
JamesBondo
#6824
If a good gun law doesn't actually affect things with a positive trend then there is no evidence to indicate that it is good law.

What bluebird refuses to admit, in Canada there are over a million permitted firearms owners. Believe me when I say if we were the problem you'd ****ing know it.
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6825
Of course, James,,,,, keep denying Canada's record re gun violence is no better with our gun laws. Keep claiming Canada's gun laws do not make a difference, However, with our next door neighbour's record that is simply spitting into the wind.

I believe I mentioned more than once that my father was a gun collector who registered his guns, hunted and fished.....always with his permits, and never left his guns out or hanging around where some curious child or adult could pick them up. They were locked up.

What you will never admit is that the US's state of affairs re guns and killings are the result of the interpretation of the US Constitution, It was a form of conscription when there was NO army and every citizen of that country was pressed into service to protect the country. It was never intended to be a right of the individual so much as protection of a newly formed country. That situation no longer exists. In fact, in places like Chicago, it is the citizens that need protection,

Some gun owners in Canada will never admit Canadians are every bit as human as Americans and given the choice to solve some disputes with violence they would. Also Canadians do not face fear of violence like many in the US do, Every country has those with anger management problems. Making it too easy to obtain a firearm, is not smart, We do not need to shoot through our doors at 2 am and we can accidentally or on purpose cut someone off while driving without fear of being shot.

So exactly why with a million permitted firearm owners in Canada, we do not have the problem the US has?? Could it possibly be our gun laws??LOL
Last edited by bluebyrd35; Jan 5th, 2017 at 11:23 AM..
 
Ocean Breeze
Free Thinker
#6826
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Decent gun laws are NOT useless. When guns are available without a waiting period or without a background check and can be bought or traded at gun shows or privately without any control whatever, it contravenes the whole purpose of keeping the guns out of the hands of those who will misuse them, That is and has always been my stance,

The real issue is many who post here feel good gun laws are useless and would like to see Canada adopt the same laws as the US. The title of the thread says it all. I am strongly against that!!

agree. the questiothat arises is WHAT is so GREAT about the "laws" in the US?? We see daily how "effective" they are..NOT. They believe that everyone should have a gun.regardless of age. mental health , or ??? and when things go sought .which they do with monotonous regularity "they all say " gee whathappened here?? and literally have NO clue as to how their gun culture fosters and reinforces the culture of violence and the imagiend need for guns.

Is THAT the modle that CDA should use as a guide?? That makes about as much sense as Trump not accepting the evidence from the intelligence chaps that the election was tampered with by Putins Russia. And THAT is not even rational.

The title is a gross over generalization..... to begin with. It suggests that it would be preferable not to have any laws.... and each man for himself and let society regress to an even more barbaric state . Perhaps those that make such statements (gun laws are useless should provide a valid alternative.That would seem reasnable.
 
JamesBondo
+2
#6827
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Of course, James,,,,, keep denying Canada's record re gun violence is no better with our gun laws. Keep claiming Canada's gun laws do not make a difference, However, with our next door neighbour's record that is simply spitting into the wind.

I believe I mentioned more than once that my father was a gun collector who registered his guns, hunted and fished.....always with his permits, and never left his guns out or hanging around where some curious child or adult could pick them up. They were locked up.

What you will never admit is that the US's state of affairs re guns and killings are the result of the interpretation of the US Constitution, It was a form of conscription when there was NO army and every citizen of that country was pressed into service to protect the country. It was never intended to be a right of the individual so much as protection of a newly formed country. That situation no longer exists. In fact, in places like Chicago, it is the citizens that need protection,

Some gun owners in Canada will never admit Canadians are every bit as human as Americans and given the choice to solve some disputes with violence they would. Also Canadians do not face fear of violence like many in the US do, Every country has those with anger management problems. Making it too easy to obtain a firearm, is not smart, We do not need to shoot through our doors at 2 am and we can accidentally or on purpose cut someone off while driving without fear of being shot.

So exactly why with a million permitted firearm owners in Canada, we do not have the problem the US has?? Could it possibly be our gun laws??LOL

NO. IT COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE OUR GUN LAWS, because causality can not be established when the effect precedes the cause, ie Canada's gun laws are younger than our wonderfully low stats.And you refuse to show that it caused an improvement to our wonderfully low stats .... and improvement that out performs the USA.


PS I love pointing this out to you. Your inability to address this point makes you look obtuse.
 
Danbones
Free Thinker
#6828
61 Christmas weekend shootings continue Chicago's worst year for gun violence in decades
https://news.vice.com/story/gun-viol...otings-chicago
so much for gun laws
 
Ludlow
No Party Affiliation
#6829
Fukk guns. You want to be a cowboy go fukk a bull.
 
JamesBondo
#6830
Quote: Originally Posted by Danbones View Post

61 Christmas weekend shootings continue Chicago's worst year for gun violence in decades
https://news.vice.com/story/gun-viol...otings-chicago
so much for gun laws

Interesting article.
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#6831
Czech Gov’t: Placing Weapons in the Hands of Citizens is Best Defense Against Terror
 
JamesBondo
#6832
Yep. And the FBI database shows that a handgun is the best form of civilian defense, including calling 911
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
#6833
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

Yep. And the FBI database shows that a handgun is the best form of civilian defense, including calling 911

So, an armed guy in Chicago is safer than unarmed guy like me, in Southern Ontario is?

I rather doubt that it's true.
 
JamesBondo
#6834
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

So, an armed guy in Chicago is safer than unarmed guy like me, in Southern Ontario is?

I rather doubt that it's true.

I rather doubt that too.

However, if a citizen in the USA is otherwise jumped, attacked, assaulted, the best outcomes involve the defender having a handgun.
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
#6835
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

I rather doubt that too.

However, if a citizen in the USA is otherwise jumped, attacked, assaulted, the best outcomes involve the defender having a handgun.

Why there and not here? ... because everybody has a gun there, perhaps?

And if that is true, is it really true that an armed population is a safe population?
 
JamesBondo
#6836
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

Why there and not here? ... because everybody has a gun there, perhaps?

Why not here? Are you saying that you'd rather defend yourself with a knife when someone comes at you with a knife?



Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

And if that is true, is it really true that an armed population is a safe population?

It's the FBI, not a political think tank. You want their opinion on how to run a country, or do you want a simple report on what is the most effective defensive weapon based on their data?
 
Curious Cdn
Conservative
+1
#6837
Why not here? Are you saying that you'd rather defend yourself with a knife when someone comes at you with a knife?


It's an either/or? What manner of hell hole do you live in, anyway?
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#6838
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo View Post

NO. IT COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE OUR GUN LAWS, because causality can not be established when the effect precedes the cause, ie Canada's gun laws are younger than our wonderfully low stats.And you refuse to show that it caused an improvement to our wonderfully low stats .... and improvement that out performs the USA.


PS I love pointing this out to you. Your inability to address this point makes you look obtuse.

Come now even you can figure the answer out to that......We kept our stats low because of the gun laws, The US. did not have the same gun laws and did not enact any others, so,,,,their stats have gone through the roof.

By the way, the young man who shot 5 people dead and injured six others recently, in florida, was examined just previously, following a recent tour in Iraaq and was found to be suffering from PTSS, He was permitted to own a gun, and was not on the "No fly list". This despite of being just recently being examined because he heard voiices . Voices that told hm to!d him to join the Islamic cause.

It seems to me, that because the US government (mostly the Republicans) treats it;s veterans suffering with Post Traumatic Stress Symptoms, just in the same careless manner they treat the right to own a gun...... TOTALLY USELESSLY!!

Before you start blaming Obama, remember he and many others have tried and tried to reform those laws but the sale of guns has been and still is one of the most economically lucrative. How sad,
Last edited by bluebyrd35; Jan 7th, 2017 at 10:47 PM..
 
Ludlow
No Party Affiliation
#6839
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Come now even you can figure the answer out to that......We kept our stats low because of the gun laws, The US. did not have the same gun laws and did not enact any others, so,,,,their stats have gone through the roof.

By the way, the young man who shot 5 people dead and injured six others recently, in florida, was examined just previously, following a recent tour in Iraaq and was found to be suffering from PTSS, He was permitted to own a gun, and was not on the "No fly list". This despite of being just recently being examined because he heard voiices . Voices that told hm to!d him to join the Islamic cause.

It seems to me, that because the US government (mostly the Republicans) treats it;s veterans suffering with Post Traumatic Stress Symptoms, just in the same careless manner they treat the right to own a gun...... TOTALLY USELESSLY!!

Before you start blaming Obama, remember he and many others have tried and tried to reform those laws but the sale of guns has been and still is one of the most economically lucrative. How sad,

It's the Christian thang to do.
 
JamesBondo
#6840
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Come now even you can figure the answer out to that......We kept our stats low because of the gun laws, The US. did not have the same gun laws and did not enact any others, so,,,,their stats have gone through the roof.

Don't be silly, despite changes in favor or against gun control, the US stats have been slowly improving over the past decades. Which suggests that gun control isn't the driving factor....correction: it isn't a factor.

Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

By the way, the young man who shot 5 people dead and injured six others recently, in florida, was examined just previously, following a recent tour in Iraaq and was found to be suffering from PTSS, He was permitted to own a gun, and was not on the "No fly list". This despite of being just recently being examined because he heard voiices . Voices that told hm to!d him to join the Islamic cause.

It seems to me, that because the US government (mostly the Republicans) treats it;s veterans suffering with Post Traumatic Stress Symptoms, just in the same careless manner they treat the right to own a gun...... TOTALLY USELESSLY!!

True, 11% of the US are veterans, but you are wrong if you are implying that this demographic is the sole problem with crime in the USA. In fact, I'd be interested in seeing the stats on this, I suspect that vets are more likely to be outstanding citizens than their neighbors.

Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35 View Post

Before you start blaming Obama, remember he and many others have tried and tried to reform those laws but the sale of guns has been and still is one of the most economically lucrative. How sad,

I don't blame Obama, instead I give him credit for selling more firearms in his past two terms than the NRA would have.