Gun Control is Completely Useless.


bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#721
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

I recieved another e-mail that was rather enlightening, and provides a bit more ammunition, so to speak, against the registry. Seems Ekos Research is conducting a poll of firearms owners using contact information garnered from the CFC's database, hmmm. Much of the information asked for is already in this database. It is apparently an attempt by bureacrats to justify the registry, particularly with the second reading of Bill C-391 due this month. The federal government knew nothing about this poll and has launched an investigation. The Canadian Shooting Sports Accociation is advising all firearms owners to not participate in this poll, and is exploring the possibility of persuing criminal charges relating to the release of confidential information byt the CFC.

There is no justification in a free country for having to let other people know what law abiding citizens have in their own homes. Privacy is a major cornerstone of liberty.

I wrote this a week ago, guess I wasn't talking though my hat, eh?
 
bobnoorduyn
Free Thinker
#722
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

A citizenry without guns is a sitting duck to its government and other nations. Are we being set up?

Uh, yeah, of course we are.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#723
AN UPDATE

When I did the original post on this thread, I went as far as 2004, and predicted that the gap would widen....well, I took another look........from 2005 to 2008. WOW!

Quote:

I went looking to isolate two populations, as close as possible in population make-up, culture, etc, with the ONLY difference being gun control laws. I settled on the west, the provinces of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta in Canada, and the three American states that border them, Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota. These seemed to be the best examples, as they are the two areas of Canada and the United States that are the most alike in population culture, etc., yet most different in gun legislation.

Let me lay it out for you.

In Canada, before you buy a long gun, you must pass a safety course, undergo an investigation, get references including your spouse, obtain a license, and register the firearm. Most military semi-autos are prohibited. Semi-auto rifles can only have magazines with 5 rounds

In these states, if you want the semi-auto version of the American military M-16, you walk into the gun store, put down your cash, buy the piece and as many 30 round magazines as you like. You wait a federally-mandated 7 days, and go get your rifle. No license, no registration, no course, any rifle is OK.

In Canada, the vast majority of handguns are prohibited. If you want a handgun, you must either be a collector, or a target shooter. Self-defense is NOT allowed. You must have a long gun license (see above), pass ANOTHER course, and register your pistol. You must belong to a gun club, and you are ONLY allowed to transfer the weapon back and forth from the club to home, it must be trigger locked, and in a locked case.

If you want a handgun in any of these states, it is exactly the same as the process for buying a military "assault" rifle in the Sates, as laid out above. No license, no registration, no course, no NOTHING. NO handguns are prohibited.

In Canada, getting a license to carry a handgun is practically impossible.

In these states, the gov't MUST give you a license to carry a handgun for self-defense if you don't have a criminal record.

Just to make it clear, here are the ratings for the states given by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence: Montana (F), North Dakota (D), Minnesota ( C-)

Believe me, Canada would get an A+++ from Sarah Brady.

So, Canada is a wonderful, peaceful place where everyone is safe and happy, but step across the border and you trip over bodies and fall into the mess of blood, guts and expended shell casings, right?

Well, maybe not.

Stats;

Murder rates per 100,000

2005
USA: Minnesota - 2.2 Montana - 1.9 North Dakota - 1.1
CDN: Manitoba - 4.1 Alberta - 3.2 Saskatchewan - 4.3

2006
USA: Minnesota - 2.4 Montana - 1.8 North Dakota - 1.3
CDN: Manitoba - 3.2 Alberta - 2.7 Saskatchewan - 4.2

2007
USA: Minnesota - 2.2 Montana - 1.5 North Dakota - 1.9
CDN: Manitoba - 5.1 Alberta - 2.5 Saskatchewan - 3.0


2008
USA: Minnesota - 2.1 Montana - 2.4 North Dakota - 0.5
CDN: Manitoba - 4.4 Alberta - 3.0 Saskatchewan - 2.9

Notice the highest rate in the US states is lower than the lowest rate in Canada. Amazing!!!!

Stats obtained from Murder Rates 1996 - 2008 | Death Penalty Information Center for the USA, and Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory in Canada, Canadian rates rounded down to match US decimal use.
 
Avro
No Party Affiliation
#724
Were these people killed with guns or by other means?

What about national levels?
 
Colpy
Conservative
#725
Quote: Originally Posted by Avro View Post

Were these people killed with guns or by other means?

What about national levels?

The overall murder rate in the USA is about 5.8 per 100,000...........boosted by murder in the inner cities.....in some cities the rate is well over 50 per 100,000. Paradoxically, these same cities are often the ones with syrong gun control laws (like Washington, DC)

The murder rate in Canada is about 2.0 per 100,000.

About 70% of US murders are done with guns. In Canada about 30%. However, that is a totally irrelevant statistic. If the level of murder in a culture loaded with guns is one half that of the same culture without nearly as many guns.....well, think it out....do guns actually prevent murder????

All these stats are off the top of my head, from memory.....so....
 
AnnaG
#726
2008 stats The Daily, Wednesday, February 20, 2008. Study: Firearms and violent crime

Crime in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stats from 2000: Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#727
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

2008 stats The Daily, Wednesday, February 20, 2008. Study: Firearms and violent crime

Crime in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Stats from 2000: Murders with firearms (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

hmmmm

IMHO, some of these stats are irrelevant.

The whole issue of homicide with guns is a red herring used by the anti-gun folks to con us.

Yes, if I decide to violently assault and kill someone, and I have a readily available smorgasborg of weapons, say a pistol, sword, knife, long bow, rock, baseball bat, sharp stick, cast iron frying pan, car, piece of pipe, garrotte, bottle of gasoline and a match etc etc.......chances are I'll choose the pistol, thus inflating the homicides committed with guns.......much to the pleasure of Wendy Cukier et al.

But the entire point is the killing, not the weapon. If I don't choose the pistol, I will kill with any of the other weapons listed, and that is the point....it is the homicide, not the weapon.

The idea that the presence of firearms causes murder is a fallacy, as shown in the stats I provided on the other thread........and as demonstrated by your own stats.....the USA comes in as the number 8 country in the world for firearms homicides, but it is number 48 in the world for homicide overall.........
 
Risus
#728
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

hmmmm

The idea that the presence of firearms causes murder is a fallacy, as shown in the stats I provided on the other thread........and as demonstrated by your own stats.....the USA comes in as the number 8 country in the world for firearms homicides, but it is number 48 in the world for homicide overall.........

I think you have it ass backwards The US has a higher ranking for homicides with firearms than overall. Therefore the higher presense of firearms in the States leads to the higher ranking.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#729
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

I think you have it ass backwards The US has a higher ranking for homicides with firearms than overall. Therefore the higher presense of firearms in the States leads to the higher ranking.

I don't understand.

Yes, there are lots of murders commited with guns. So what?

If not guns, other weapons would have been used.

Comparatively, the US has a moderate murder rate.......despite all the guns. In fact, those areas of the USA where the ownership and carrying of guns is absolutely the norm (Montana??? etc), have an extremely LOW murder rate.......So guns don't cause murder.

So why restrict them????
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#730
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

I don't understand.

Yes, there are lots of murders commited with guns. So what?

If not guns, other weapons would have been used.

Comparatively, the US has a moderate murder rate.......despite all the guns. In fact, those areas of the USA where the ownership and carrying of guns is absolutely the norm (Montana??? etc), have an extremely LOW murder rate.......So guns don't cause murder.

So why restrict them????

I think if you are going to cite statistics on gun murders, only the ones should be counted where someone was not pulling the trigger.
 
AnnaG
#731
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

I think if you are going to cite statistics on gun murders, only the ones should be counted where someone was not pulling the trigger.

huh? Who would commit murder with a firearm if they couldn't pull the trigger? There are better bludgeons around than firearms butts.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#732
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

huh? Who would commit murder with a firearm if they couldn't pull the trigger? There are better bludgeons around than firearms butts.

Exactly Anna, I was just demonstrating that "guns" don't commit murder.
 
AnnaG
#733
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Exactly Anna, I was just demonstrating that "guns" don't commit murder.

Oh. *sheepish grin* It's Monday. It's a blonde day. I had a brain fart.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#734
Specifically for Kreskin, who claims guns are useless for self-defense.......

Big surprize to these people.....

Armed-Citizens.com

Examples of armed citizens coming to the aid of officers in peril

SayUncle Mass murderers v. armed citizens
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#735
Yakima kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands
Yakima kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands - KNDO/KNDU Tri-Cities, Yakima, WA |
 
Liberalman
Free Thinker
#736
If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem
 
ironsides
No Party Affiliation
#737
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem

And automakers with manslaughter so there wouldn't be any more auto accidents.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#738
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem

Great idea and car manufacturers, axe manufacturers, knife manufacturers, chemical and rat poison manufacturers, bic lighter manufacturers.......................... : lol:
 
countryboy
No Party Affiliation
#739
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem

Are you serious? Naw, I don't think so. I read your recommendation twice to make sure I got it right. Charge a gunmaker with murder? What is your rationale behind that statement?

Are you saying that the person who chose that weapon and pulled the trigger doesn't have any responsibility for his/her actions?
 
Risus
#740
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Great idea and car manufacturers, axe manufacturers, knife manufacturers, chemical and rat poison manufacturers, bic lighter manufacturers.......................... : lol:

But guns have only one purpose and that is to kill...
 
Colpy
Conservative
#741
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

But guns have only one purpose and that is to kill...

But knives have only one purpose, and that is to cut.........

And Axes have only one purpose, and that is to chop........

And hammers have only one purpose, and that is to hammer......

It is all in what, or where, you cut, chop, hammer or kill.

Oh, and I have fired tens, if not hundreds of thousands of rounds out of guns........I've never killed anyone.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#742
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

Yakima kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands
Yakima kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands - KNDO/KNDU Tri-Cities, Yakima, WA |

roflmao That's just unbelievable. Ever since I can remember kids have played "war", "cowboys & injuns", "cops & robbers", and since the 50s have hunted bad aliens and they've done that with everything from pointed fingers to pieces of plastic. The vast majority of those kids turn out to be well-adjusted, well-behaved people. Yakima needs to get a grip.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#743
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

If you charge gunmakers with murder when their guns kill people then we would not have a problem

Good luck getting a conviction.
We should charge auto makers with manslaughter, too, then. Same with chainsaw makers, people who make and cook fatty foods, etc.
 
Risus
#744
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

But knives have only one purpose, and that is to cut.........

Thats a pretty silly comparison, but yes you can use a knife to cut your potatos, cut an orange in half, do you use your gun to shoot a tomato? Get real.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#745
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

But guns have only one purpose and that is to kill...

... and shoot holes in targets, and look pretty on walls in homes, etc.
 
L Gilbert
No Party Affiliation
#746
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Thats a pretty silly comparison, but yes you can use a knife to cut your potatos, cut an orange in half, do you use your gun to shoot a tomato? Get real.

Yeah, people never use knives to kill. YOU get real.
 
Colpy
Conservative
#747
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

Thats a pretty silly comparison, but yes you can use a knife to cut your potatos, cut an orange in half, do you use your gun to shoot a tomato? Get real.

No.

Cutting a tomato is a legitimate use for a knife.

Attacking a human is not.

Shooting a deer is a legitimate use for a gun, as is shooting an attacker.

Attacking an innocent is not.

What's the difference???
 
Colpy
Conservative
#748
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsides View Post

Yakima kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands
Yakima kindergartner expelled for making a gun with hands - KNDO/KNDU Tri-Cities, Yakima, WA |

Makes about as much sense as most gun control.........

Shades of the Thought Police.
 
Risus
#749
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy View Post

No.

Cutting a tomato is a legitimate use for a knife.

Attacking a human is not.

Shooting a deer is a legitimate use for a gun, as is shooting an attacker.

Attacking an innocent is not.

What's the difference???

You answered the question. Guns are only for killing.

We've been over this time and again. No point arguing any more about it....
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#750
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

But guns have only one purpose and that is to kill...

I can think of two more, recreational target shooting and scaring the sh*t out of perpetrators that are in danger of getting killed. You know about rock salt?