Solving the garbage problem


JLM
#1
Just had a brain wave!!!!!!! Not sure how or if this would "fly", but I'm wondering if we couldn't fence and cultivate our land fill areas and populate them with pigs and goats, which would consume a lot of the garbage, along with grains and grasses planted giving them a more or less balanced diet- that way the waste could be productively disposed of and converted into meat. The idea would probably need a little refining. Any ideas?
 
taxslave
#2
JLM: We have a solution to the garbage problem available. There are some with vested interests that are opposed however as they would loose revenue. Sorted garbage and sludge from sewer treatment plants can be be burned with hog fuel (wood waste) to both generate electricity and heat a good portion of our cities at a very low cost. There is currently one of these types of systems being incorporated in the new waterfront development in Victoria. Pulp mils burn hog fuel to make steam and could burn garbage if the environment ministries would actually do their jobs. This has been done in Europe for about twenty years.
 
JLM
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

JLM: We have a solution to the garbage problem available. There are some with vested interests that are opposed however as they would loose revenue. Sorted garbage and sludge from sewer treatment plants can be be burned with hog fuel (wood waste) to both generate electricity and heat a good portion of our cities at a very low cost. There is currently one of these types of systems being incorporated in the new waterfront development in Victoria. Pulp mils burn hog fuel to make steam and could burn garbage if the environment ministries would actually do their jobs. This has been done in Europe for about twenty years.

Yep,another good plan.
 
Scott Free
#4
I wasn't aware there was a garbage problem to be solved. What exactly is the problem, and where?
 
CDNBear
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post

I wasn't aware there was a garbage problem to be solved.

That's not surprising...wait for the 'white boy' comment at the end of this post...

Quote:

What exactly is the problem, and where?

Let the 'white boy', that's not affected in any way by the looming issue illuminate you...

The garbage crisis: traditional solutions (BP-407E)

Though Canada's waste disposal issues do not affect every region, it is of the up most importance that us as the stewards of this land, to protect it. The current system is flawed and mired in inefficiency and pollution and contamination.

There are far more environmentally sound waste processing systems and models out there, if only the Gov't would be more receptive to moving towards them, instead of trying to reinvent them.
 
JLM
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post

I wasn't aware there was a garbage problem to be solved. What exactly is the problem, and where?

Well, Vancouver has had to haul their garbage all the way to Cache Creek and there's even been talk of taking some of it south across the line. Most municipalities don't want other jurisdictions garbage unless they are willing to pay a big price.
 
bobnoorduyn
#7
Not to sound pessimistic, but one problem that comes to mind is; what are people throwing out? We didgently separate our stuff, compostables get thrown in the green bin, cans and bottles in the blue bag, and everything else into the trash. It only takes a handful of those who don't care to throw everything into one container. Pigs and goats might have a hard time digesting old printers and computer parts.

Rick Mercer did a gig at a recycling facility and they showed him how much stuff was mixed in that shouldn't be. Sure they have sorters for that, but it only takes a few monkey wrenches to gum up the works.

Also, if someone has to pay $500 to dump their old roofing shingles at the landfill or risk a $250 fine for illegal dumping, guess which option is generally chosen? There needs to be some sort of incentive, at this end of the country it can be a real bother to some to comply with the many rules, and sometimes those who really try still don't get it right.
 
CDNBear
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

Not to sound pessimistic, but one problem that comes to mind is; what are people throwing out? We didgently separate our stuff, compostables get thrown in the green bin, cans and bottles in the blue bag, and everything else into the trash. It only takes a handful of those who don't care to throw everything into one container. Pigs and goats might have a hard time digesting old printers and computer parts.

Bingo!!! You're a good man Bob. Your diligence is greatly appreciated.

Quote:

Rick Mercer did a gig at a recycling facility and they showed him how much stuff was mixed in that shouldn't be. Sure they have sorters for that, but it only takes a few monkey wrenches to gum up the works.

SCB, a member here and my wife, was a supervisor at a recycling facility here in the hinterlands. You would be amazed how much stuff is mixed in.

Besides the fact that most recycling trucks have multiple sections for all the types of waste they collect. They dump it all at once mixing it all together, creating greater waste in time and effort.

People are lazy.

Quote:

Also, if someone has to pay $500 to dump their old roofing shingles at the landfill or risk a $250 fine for illegal dumping, guess which option is generally chosen? There needs to be some sort of incentive, at this end of the country it can be a real bother to some to comply with the many rules, and sometimes those who really try still don't get it right.

How true!
 
Nuggler
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post

I wasn't aware there was a garbage problem to be solved. What exactly is the problem, and where?

You keep stumbling around here, for one.
 
Nuggler
#10
Besides the fact that most recycling trucks have multiple sections for all the types of waste they collect. They dump it all at once mixing it all together, creating greater waste in time and effort."" quoting the Bear.

They really do that, Bear??

WTF is the point of carefully segregating everything on "blue box" (cold day in the nunnery) day ??

......I'm hopin that's a mistype ya made.
 
JLM
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

Not to sound pessimistic, but one problem that comes to mind is; what are people throwing out? We didgently separate our stuff, compostables get thrown in the green bin, cans and bottles in the blue bag, and everything else into the trash. It only takes a handful of those who don't care to throw everything into one container. Pigs and goats might have a hard time digesting old printers and computer parts.

Rick Mercer did a gig at a recycling facility and they showed him how much stuff was mixed in that shouldn't be. Sure they have sorters for that, but it only takes a few monkey wrenches to gum up the works.

Also, if someone has to pay $500 to dump their old roofing shingles at the landfill or risk a $250 fine for illegal dumping, guess which option is generally chosen? There needs to be some sort of incentive, at this end of the country it can be a real bother to some to comply with the many rules, and sometimes those who really try still don't get it right.

Actually I think pigs and goat are pretty selective in what they eat (pigs especially), actually they are probably fussier about what they put in their mouths than most people are. I think old shingles (asphalt) could be recycled into many things.
 
CDNBear
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

They really do that, Bear??

Yes sir, they most certainly do. It was an endless source of frustration for SCB. Cardboard, being the real money maker was the only product not just dumped.

PET and co mingle (Co mingle is a great name, as in mingled) are the platics, they are mixed with tin, and aluminum and all sorts of other refuse such as needles, human waste, used sundries and so on.

People are rude and lazy...The truck operators are no different. It isn't them that has to sort it, so when they dump, they don't care. At the Miller Newmarket recycling plant, even with the considerable oversight, this still happens.

Quote:

WTF is the point of carefully segregating everything on "blue box" (cold day in the nunnery) day ??

It's a waste of your time. About the only thing that matters is that you neatly bundle your cardboard...lol...

Quote:

......I'm hopin that's a mistype ya made.

Sadly it wasn't Nugg.
 
bobnoorduyn
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Besides the fact that most recycling trucks have multiple sections for all the types of waste they collect. They dump it all at once mixing it all together, creating greater waste in time and effort.

I guess it creats jobs, or at least work, only in Canada eh?

BTW, I spend a lot of time tramping through the bush and you would be amazed at some of the stuff I run across; like how did a car, (or sofa, refrigerator, television, lawnmower) get this far off the beaten path and has been there long enough for trees to be growing up through it?
 
CDNBear
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

I guess it creats jobs, or at least work, only in Canada eh?

Actually...no...the problem occurs in the States as well...lol.

Quote:

BTW, I spend a lot of time tramping through the bush and you would be amazed at some of the stuff I run across; like how did a car, (or sofa, refrigerator, television, lawnmower) get this far off the beaten path and has been there long enough for trees to be growing up through it?

Never an endless source of puzzlement is that find eh?

I almost bought an old Willy's Jeep off a farmer with a 15 year old tree, growing right through the bed of it. He didn't even know it was there, until I stumbled on it hunting one day. Considering the age of the trees in the area, and the fact that the path was little more then the width of my ass, I have no idea, nor did he, how it got there or who's it was. Puzzling, since the land has been in his family perpetually since it was deeded to to them by Lord Simcoe...lol.
 
bobnoorduyn
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

Besides the fact that most recycling trucks have multiple sections for all the types of waste they collect. They dump it all at once mixing it all together, creating greater waste in time and effort."" quoting the Bear.

They really do that, Bear??

WTF is the point of carefully segregating everything on "blue box" (cold day in the nunnery) day ??

......I'm hopin that's a mistype ya made.

I've worked with a few folks who save their papers and stuff to deposit them in the recycle bin at the airport rather than in the garbage. I informed them that my daughter used to work as a cleaner there and everything went into the same bin anyway. Part of the problem is that people can't read the hieroglyphics on the 4 hole bins, (and I admit to being a bit glyph illiterate as well) and in a hurry they throw garbage in with the papers, papers in with the cans, and cans in with the garbage. The cleaners don't have the time to sort it all out afterward.
 
JLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by bobnoorduyn View Post

I guess it creats jobs, or at least work, only in Canada eh?

BTW, I spend a lot of time tramping through the bush and you would be amazed at some of the stuff I run across; like how did a car, (or sofa, refrigerator, television, lawnmower) get this far off the beaten path and has been there long enough for trees to be growing up through it?

At a time when it was acceptable and the old logging roads were still drivable. When the population was small and the forested areas were big, nobody cared too much. In the 60s very few people were concerned about the environment, but that ended quite abruptly in the 70s. Having worked at close quarters with the logging industry at that time I was very aware when changes started to take effect.
 
Scott Free
#17
video
 
petros
#18
A young woman in Australia created a contraption that turns household trash into a fertilizer that triples crop production, has no salts, retains water and lasts 100 years per field.

I'd say she has it cased.
 
TenPenny
#19
The 'garbage' problem is easy to solve.

Everything reuseable should be reused.
Everything recycleable should be recycled.
Everything compostable should be composted.
Anything that is left over that is burnable, should be burned as fuel.

If there are no currently available recycling facilities (such as here in NB, our only glass plant closed, so glass isn't economically recyclable), the land fills should segregate products - if one cell of the landfill is filled with glass, then in future it can be recovered if the economics dictate. Same for plastics - all plastics that are not presently recycled should be in one area. Then it could be 'mined' later.
 
L Gilbert
#20
Good idea, TP.
Around here the people that supposedly know what they are doing keep changing how we recycle and whatnot, and yet it all goes to the same place to be buried anyway. I think the glass and the corrugated cardboard are recycled, but that's about it. We still do what we can, though.
 
petros
#21
Quote:

Everything reuseable should be reused.
Everything recycleable should be recycled.
Everything compostable should be composted.
Anything that is left over that is burnable, should be burned as fuel.

With or without a nat gas co-jet? Trash doesn't burn all that well and is extremely toxic when burned.

It needs to be carbolized which is what the young lady in Australia did turning the trash to fertilizer.

The idea of reuse, recycle, recondition and compost is great but it's time as consumers we have to add REJECT if not reuseable, recyclable, reconditionable or compostable.
 
GreenFish66
#22
Read in the t.o star today about a homeless guy who collects garbage..Now that's the idea...Uses collected money to pay 4 rent...Here's the idea...Should get hired on an hourly wage.There's someone with a purpose and meaning....Garbage collectors from here to space and back again is always a good investment..Hats off to you sir.
 
L Gilbert
#23
What's he do with the stuff he can't sell? Stuff like copper and that is resellable. Styrofoam trays from supermarkets isn't.
 
CDNBear
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post

Penn & Teller:Bullsh!t

Being informed by a couple of comedians?

That explains your opinions on a few topics Scott.

Unfortunately, they would be wrong. PET1's are recycled into packaging and plastic lumber, HTP2/3/4's are shipped overseas, Japan mostly. Where it's shredded, pelletized and then used in all sorts of things like clothing, toys, etc.

Yep, to be sure it is more costly and definitely more energy dependent to do so. But then again, it isn't being put into the ground. Sure it's real awesome that Penn & Teller and a specialist in the field claim that we're not running out of land to fill. But then again that really isn't the point either. Why would we want to continue to fill land that can be used for a litany of more positive uses?

This is a no brain'r, anyone that says anything to the contrary should have their heads examined. Such products as plastic lumber, make significant reduction in the deforestation. As products such as that become more mainstream, you will see the positive impact on the environment.

Just as it's taking decades to see the hard work and diligence of several originizations, to take effect on the water quality of the Great Lakes. So will it take a few decades for the impact of what ground work is being laid out in the here and now with the 3R programs.

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny View Post

The 'garbage' problem is easy to solve.

Everything reuseable should be reused.
Everything recycleable should be recycled.
Everything compostable should be composted.
Anything that is left over that is burnable, should be burned as fuel.

If there are no currently available recycling facilities (such as here in NB, our only glass plant closed, so glass isn't economically recyclable), the land fills should segregate products - if one cell of the landfill is filled with glass, then in future it can be recovered if the economics dictate. Same for plastics - all plastics that are not presently recycled should be in one area. Then it could be 'mined' later.

That's an awesome idea TP. In fact, it is done just like that, in part.

Where SCB used to work, they would stock pile certain materials, and wait until the market value rose to a profitable level and then sell it. Glass is always a stink commodity though. It doesn't have a huge recyling market.
 
Scott Free
#25
Awe, you still got your panties in a twist CDNBear?
 
CDNBear
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post

Awe, you still got your panties in a twist CDNBear?

Nope, just like punching great big holes in stupid peoples asinine opinions...



It rocks...

I see you couldn't even attempt to debate the facts and topic at hand. Seems to be common theme among your posts.
 
Unforgiven
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Being informed by a couple of comedians?

That explains your opinions on a few topics Scott.

Unfortunately, they would be wrong. PET1's are recycled into packaging and plastic lumber, HTP2/3/4's are shipped overseas, Japan mostly. Where it's shredded, pelletized and then used in all sorts of things like clothing, toys, etc.

Yep, to be sure it is more costly and definitely more energy dependent to do so. But then again, it isn't being put into the ground. Sure it's real awesome that Penn & Teller and a specialist in the field claim that we're not running out of land to fill. But then again that really isn't the point either. Why would we want to continue to fill land that can be used for a litany of more positive uses?

This is a no brain'r, anyone that says anything to the contrary should have their heads examined. Such products as plastic lumber, make significant reduction in the deforestation. As products such as that become more mainstream, you will see the positive impact on the environment.

Just as it's taking decades to see the hard work and diligence of several originizations, to take effect on the water quality of the Great Lakes. So will it take a few decades for the impact of what ground work is being laid out in the here and now with the 3R programs.

That's an awesome idea TP. In fact, it is done just like that, in part.

Where SCB used to work, they would stock pile certain materials, and wait until the market value rose to a profitable level and then sell it. Glass is always a stink commodity though. It doesn't have a huge recyling market.

While I can agree with most of what you say here, I have to ask what happens when plastic lumber burns and what other precautions need be taken when emergency services respond? Should this become common practice, what would the impact be on an area that has this much petrochemical making it's way into the ground with the water and other chemical retardants used to extinguish it?
 
CDNBear
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post

While I can agree with most of what you say here, I have to ask what happens when plastic lumber burns and what other precautions need be taken when emergency services respond? Should this become common practice, what would the impact be on an area that has this much petrochemical making it's way into the ground with the water and other chemical retardants used to extinguish it?

Beats me Unf...I just know how gets to become lumber cuz of SCB. After that, you're on your own, lol.
 
Risus
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Just had a brain wave!!!!!!! Not sure how or if this would "fly", but I'm wondering if we couldn't fence and cultivate our land fill areas and populate them with pigs and goats, which would consume a lot of the garbage, along with grains and grasses planted giving them a more or less balanced diet- that way the waste could be productively disposed of and converted into meat. The idea would probably need a little refining. Any ideas?

There is nothing new with that idea. Moncton, N.B. for example, had a piggery back in the 60s to eat the 'wet garbage' from the city.
 
JLM
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

There is nothing new with that idea. Moncton, N.B. for example, had a piggery back in the 60s to eat the 'wet garbage' from the city.

That's good information. Did they keep any records? Why was it stopped? Were there problems?
 

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