Climate Change

I feel terrible for those in New Orleans, but part of me is thinking that now maybe those idiots who dont believe global warming is happening will wake up. It's not an environmental trend, it's a man made problem. The oceans temperature has risen. Even a slight rise can cause stronger, more frequent hurricanes.
I suggest people listen to science instead of religious nuts who think New Orleans is being punished because of homosexuals.
Arctic sea ice gone within a century?
I'm beginning to wonder how much is Global warming and how much is man messing with the weather I would like to know how many times they've fired up HAARP and heated the ionisphere .Shooting microwaves into our atmosphere has got to be screwing things up too
I am sure they have used HAARP and have tried other things to "modify" weather. Hell maybe they have fecked the weather up from an epeiriment that went bad. I dunno but can't trust those guys.

On a lighter note Corn Cob Bob returns to Parliament Hill
In Macleans there is an article about the economic benifits of the polar caps melting. They want to develop shipping routs through the artic and use Churchill as a major seaport. Personaly, I would prefer they did something about global warming.
One thing people should do is instead of waiting for government to do anything, we should do our part. People complain about sky high gas prices. Maybe stop driving gas chugging suv's. Bike to work. Europe has been paying over a dollar a litre for a long time now. Thats why they drive fuel efficient cars. Stop complaining.
Reverend Blair
Really eh? I hear people freaking out about how much it's going to heat their houses this winter. I feel bad for poor people who are going to be hit hard by this, but most of those I hear complaining aren't poor. In fact, most of them have a pretty good income.

How 'bout this? Get you damned houses insulated and buy those new doors and windows you've been thinking about for the last decade. If you can't afford it all at once, at least get started on it one room at a time.

While you are standing there complaining about heating costs, maybe you should think why you needed a 3,000 square foot house with a heated attached garage for you and your wife to live in too. How many bedrooms do two people need anyway?
I remember cold winters in northern B.C. that were a lot colder than what they are today. I remember temperatures of more than fifty below zero. Places like Vanderhoof and Burns Lake just don't get that cold anymore. I'm just thankful I live on Vancouver Island. Because of the rising fuel costs our heating bills may double as well but we are starting from a much lower base than someone in the north or on the prairies. I am still convinced that the rising gas prices are a swindle in that the price of a barrel of crude has simply not gone up by any amount that would justify the increases we are seeing at the pumps.
Reverend Blair
It is a swindle. If the prices matched, the profits would remain more or less constant. The companies that wholesale gas have seen record profits this year.

Of course the other part of the swindle is that we should have been paying more for oil and gas all the time, but our governments have been subsidising the fossil fuel sector with our tax money. Of course we've still been paying...we just didn't know it.
All of our best efforts to halt global warming will only slow it down,and give us a few more years. Sadly,it's inevitable!
missile wrote:

All of our best efforts to halt global warming will only slow it down,and give us a few more years. Sadly,it's inevitable!

If only we could get everyone to give their best efforts. Meanwhile, I would like to know, if we stopped all production of greenhouse gasses tomorrow, how much further would the global temperature rise?
Reverend Blair
Nobody knows the answers to that, Juan. The best estimates give a 50 year time lag between when the fossil fuels are released and we begin to see an effect, which means that even a total halt right now would still see the effects accellerating for another half century.

There is also the tipping point theory and a few scientists think we may be very close to that, or possibly past it, right now.

We have to start someplace though. All but a few luddites have now recognised the problem, and even the luddites are making uncomfortable noises. The next hurdle is getting them to realise that we can't put the economy before the environment because if we do, we'll lose both.
Certainly I agree that we should all do our part in terms of NOT adding to global warming.

That being said,what we in Canada contribute to global warming is far exceeded by the developing countries....China,India,South American countries...and because our world leaders cannot or will not agree, the issue seems to be beyond our control.
Reverend Blair
On a per capita basis, we are still among the worst though, Anna. We like to blame that on our climate and the size of our country, but look at our lifestyles.

We used to have rail travel. It was cheap and easy. Now it's hard and expensive.

We used to have public transport in cities. A lot of it ran on electricity. It's gone in all but the largest cities now.

In the 70's we had federal and provincial programs to cut back on energy usage. They were effective and they spawned an industry that, along with our climate, has given us some of the best energy-efficient building technology on the planet. Most of it isn't code though, there are no retrofit programs worth talking about, and new technologies are fought by special interest groups every step of the way.

The biggest single point about developing countries is that they get their technology from us though. If we go to friendly technologies, so will they. Do you think somebody in China cares if their car runs on gasoline or alcohol or hydrogen? They don't. In fact they care less than us because they have a lot less invested in existing infrastructure. They will use what's available, but we haven't made anything else available.
For a while I was hopeful

that fuel cells might be the way of the future. It appears they are not. Fuel cell powered cars are not in the practical forseeable future because they require exotic material (platinum) that at the moment doesn't exist in the quantities required to build fuel cells in the numbers needed to make a difference. The best bet right now is the hybrid, which is a combination of a very clean, small internal combustion engine and an electric motor driven from a battery system. Another step that is in the right direction is the "Smart Car". Let's face it, just about anything is an improvement over F-350 pick ups that the morons among us drive back and forth to work in that rarely even carry a passenger. If a person needs a big pick up for work i can understand it, but to use these vehicles to commute to work is insane.

I'm just thankful I live on Vancouver Island. Because of the rising fuel costs our heating bills may double as well but we are starting from a much lower base than someone in the north or on the prairies. I

Your not worried about the increase on everything living on the island. The increase in fuel for the truckers and the ferries is being passed on directly to you, on the island.
My husband use to commute between here (the mainland) and Victoria. The price difference on groceries and on gas is something to be concerned about. We pay less for most stuff over here. Our gas is not as expensive as on the island. From what I've heard it's only going to get worse. Ferries are angling to increase fares. Truckers have their fuel surcharge raised......
Hi Twila

You are right. We'll feel the pinch. It has always cost money to live on the island. The ferries haven't raised their prices yet, but they will. I was only talking about our heating costs. When we lived up north our heating bills were about $350.00/month during the winter. In Nanaimo we might get as high as $130.00. We are putting in a woodstove to supplement the electric heat so we could get a bit better.
I always believed, and obviously rather niavely that the prairies had some kind of "magic" to prevent such heat loss.

I guess not. That's an awful lot to pay for heating. Wow!

Thanks for the clarification.
Reverend Blair
We do have that magic, Twila...that's why people will offer you shots of rye if you up at their houses at ten in the morning.

The prairies has something else that the people in charge don't like to talk about much. We have straw to build houses out of. Some of the best insulation around, and it's cheap and easy to use.
One thing that people from the west coast would notice right away on the prairies, is that nobody builds big post and beam houses with glass walls. I think that style came from California. They are hard enough to heat in Vancouver. Winnipegers wouldn't build them.
Jo Canadian
Great cartoon Jo....
Reverend Blair

Winnipegers wouldn't build them.

Yuppies is yuppies, Juan. If there was builder here who thought he could make money at it, they'd be sprouting like dandelions. That's part of the problem with the way we build things.

The natural building materials on the prairies are concrete, rock, and straw. We build out of wood.

When 2x4's became to light to carry the span loads on 24" centres, we reduced the centres to 16", then went to 2x6 and kept the centres at 16". We'll go to 2x8's soon, and say it's for energy efficiency, but it's really because we are using new growth wood and it won't carry the loads as well. An offset double stud wall made out of 2x4's would be way more energy efficient, but we never did it with 2x3's, so we won't do it with 2x4's either.

We heat with gas here in Manitoba. We have cheap electricity, but generally we heat with gas.

Everybody uses forced air now. It's cheap and easy for the builders. An HVAC guy can hire tin bashers for next to nothing too. Air currents create cold spots and encourage people to turn up the heat, but we stick with forced air so somebody else can make money.

We are only starting to use heat pumps. The cost to install one is incredibly high, but if the government encouraged them the price would drop like a rock. The technology goes back at least a century, all that's new is the drilling rigs, after all. Those are the same rigs that work for half the price when drilling wells, by the way.

When was the last time you saw a house with a porch on it? I don't mean some yuppie mudroom, I mean a real porch. An insulated, unheated porch saves a ton of energy though.

At some point, likely around the time that old woman was singing that "Boxes full of ticky-tack" song, we completely lost touch with reality. Our building methods and the codes we have to meet are based on using 1940's technology to whack houses together for a climate that never did exist out here. It's really bizarre.
Jo Canadian
Study: Sun's Changes to Blame for Part of Global Warming

Live Science/Robert Roy Britt | October 3 2005

WhatReallyHappened has a great commentary on this....

This is the Galileo thing all over again. There is clear evidence that the sun is the primary control of the Earth's temperature. First, the cycle of hot planet and ice age matches exactly the cycle Earth's orbit as it slowly oscillates between more circular and more elliptical. More recently, the link between solar activity and Earth's temperature has been established for a decade. Finally, since the Earth has sent probes to Mars since 1976, it has been shown that Mars is getting warmer as well, despite the absence of SUVs.

But, if the Sun is making the Earth warmer, there will be no money for "fixes", no political "cause" with which to swindle the voters out of support, let alone a justification for further control over people's lives. So, like the supporters of epicycles looking at Galileo's numbers, the scientists shrug, say "It's possible, but what I have known all my life still applies."

Now, I am a big supporter of wise use of resources, but the geological record is clear. The Earth gets hotter and colder all the time. That change is NATURAL. We just came out of an ice age and we are still far cooler than Earth was during the Cretaceous. It is only the arrogance of man that suggests that the Earth can or should be frozen in its current configuration for the benefit of man.

Increased output from the Sun might be to blame for 10 to 30 percent of global warming that has been measured in the past 20 years, according to a new report.

Increased emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases still play a role, the scientists say.

But climate models of global warming should be corrected to better account for changes in solar activity, according to Nicola Scafetta and Bruce West of Duke University.

The findings were published online this week by the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

Scientists agree the planet is warming. Effects are evident in melting glaciers and reductions in the amount of frozen ground around the planet.

The new study is based in part on Columbia University research from 2003 in which scientists found errors in how data on solar brightness is interpreted. A gap in data, owing to satellites not being deployed after the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, were filled by less accurate data from other satellites, Scafetta says.

The Duke analyses examined solar changes over 22 years versus 11 years used in previous studies. The cooling effect of volcanoes and cyclical shifts in ocean currents can have a greater negative impact on the accuracy of shorter data periods.

"The Sun may have minimally contributed about 10 to 30 percent of the 1980-2002 global surface warming," the researchers said in a statement today.

Many questions remain, however. For example, scientists do not have a good grasp of how much Earth absorbs or reflects sunlight.

"We don't know what the Sun will do in the future," Scafetta says. "For now, if our analysis is correct, I think it is important to correct the climate models so that they include reliable sensitivity to solar activity. Once that is done, then it will be possible to better understand what has happened during the past hundred years."
Jo Canadian
Reverend Blair
Is that the report that's based on the work of Baliunas and Soon, Mr. Mom? If it is, it deserves no credence whatsoever.
Heres the link Rev I'm painting today so i don't have time to go looking at the links but it seems to have come from a science mag
Reverend Blair
They use Baliunas as an advisor. Presumably she works cheap since Exxon pays most of her salary. I don't really have the time to research it, but if she's involved this is looking a lot like the global warming version of intelligent design.
Good to know I'll take a look at it later and see what i can find out .Nothing better than debunking big corporate disinfo
Jo Canadian

Similar Threads

Climate Change Debate
by Kreskin | Mar 26th, 2018
Climate Change Will be Expensive
by Bar Sinister | Feb 7th, 2010
Climate Change 101- sensitivity
by Tonington | Sep 16th, 2009
New forums: Climate change and..
by Kreskin | Aug 27th, 2008
Climate change-Implications
by Ocean Breeze | Aug 1st, 2005