Passions rev up in debate over loud motorcycles


Praxius
#1
Passions rev up in debate over loud motorcycles - CTV News

Quote:

EDMONTON — Passions are boiling across Canada over the issue of loud motorcycles. In one case, a Saskatoon city councillor who suggested a possible crackdown on noisy bikes has been threatened.

Bob Pringle isn't alone in his quest to quiet down the roaring exhaust pipes favoured by some riders. The Motorcycle and Moped Industry Council of Canada says municipalities from British Columbia to Nova Scotia are looking for ways to measure that noise and perhaps put a lid on it.

Pringle started receiving threats in the last couple of weeks after he asked city administrators to examine a possible prohibition on exhaust pipes that amp up a bike's noise -- equipment that's usually added after the machines are sold.

Pringle, who served as a social services minister in the government of former premier Roy Romanow in the 1990s, says he hasn't been personally threatened since his days as a cabinet minister.

While most motorcycle enthusiasts are peaceful, he's been getting an earful from those who are not, Pringle says.

"Bikers are very angry. They feel like I'm targeting them unfairly and they need this extra noise for safety reasons," he said in a recent interview.

While some anonymous callers have simply told Pringle to back off, others have been more sinister.

"There was also a threat about 'I would love to meet you in a back lane and you wouldn't come out."'

Pringle acknowledges there have been only a handful of threatening phone calls. The vast majority of residents complain about ear-splitting noise made by tricked-out machines as they blast through city streets.

When an anonymous caller reached him on his cellphone around 2:30 a.m. last Sunday, he promised to call each time he heard a loud noise. Pringle thought the situation was escalating and it was time to step up his response. He spoke to Saskatoon's police chief and a lawyer about whether to start writing down some of the more threatening details.

On the other side of the debate is Kelvin Ooms, 44. By day, he's a maintenance supervisor for a food distribution company in Saskatoon. In his off hours, he climbs aboard his Harley Davidson Fat Boy and transforms into a road warrior who isn't ashamed to use his bike's loud exhaust pipes.

When he heard that Pringle was touting the idea of a crackdown on loud bikes, he immediately started a petition and a Facebook site to drum up opposition.

Ooms knows people are passionate about the issue, but he also doesn't like the nasty turn this debate has taken. He has removed at least six people from his Loud Pipes Save Lives Facebook page who have been threatening or derogatory.

"By no means do I condone any behaviour like this. I don't think we're going to accomplish anything by doing that."

Ooms said there are more constructive ways to get out the message that loud exhaust pipes can save riders' lives. The image of loud bikes as souped-up versions of their owners' egos and machismo isn't driving this debate, he insists. Rather, it's about ensuring that drivers, who often admit after a collision that they didn't notice that oncoming motorcycle, both see and hear them.

Earlier this year, when a driver started to change lanes without noticing him, Ooms used his loud exhaust pipes to avoid a collision. He honked his horn, locked up his wheels, popped his clutch and hit the gas.

"It wasn't until I engaged my clutch and revved my throttle and really snapped my pipes that I finally got the attention of the driver and they moved out of my lane."

Bob Ramsay, president of the Motorcycle and Moped Industry Council of Canada, says his organization has helped to develop standards on what constitutes a loud bike. They've been getting calls from interested municipalities and police forces across Canada.

The group has spent more than three years developing noise standards for bikes because of an escalating number of complaints.

The council has determined that if a bike is idling, its exhaust should be no louder than about 92 decibels. As the bike revs higher, it shouldn't make noise higher than about 96 decibels. Ramsay says that with an objective standard for noise, it would be easier for municipalities to draft bylaws putting limits on the louder machines.

The industry was also worried that all motorcyclists were being painted with the same brush, he said.................

And there's a pile more information on the supplied link.

What are your thoughts?

Do you mind the sound of loud motorcycles?

Would you like to see a law put into place that restricts the level of noise that comes from a motorcycle?

Above and further into the report they note the noise is a safety issue so other drivers can hear them.

I personally think that's a crock of sh*t. You have lights, hand signals, turn signals, and if you're going the speed limit and not jetting back and forth through lanes like an idiot, other drivers can and will see you.... they don't need to hear your damn bike barreling down the highway for three counties to hear.

I live not too far from an off ramp on the highway, and hearing air brakes from transfer trucks all day and night is bad enough..... having to hear motorcycles revving and barreling up and down ramps all the damn time, when I'm over a KM away (yet they sound like they're on the same street as I) is a bit much.

and when down town it's even more ridiculous.

South Park did quite well summing up the situation with the episode "The F Word"


Brrummmm brum brum brum bubububububrum brum brummmmmm.....

Don'tget me wrong... I like bikes and always thought of getting one someday..... but the amount of noise that comes out of them is beyond any understanding other then to be an obnoxious douche.

Tell me..... how many times have you noticed in your life when an idiot on a motorbike was cruising his bike and then..... just when they're right beside you, they rev their motor as high as they can to try and get you or someone to jump, or just make them fk'n deaf for a few seconds?

Obnoxious douche.
 
JLM
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

Passions rev up in debate over loud motorcycles - CTV News

And there's a pile more information on the supplied link.

What are your thoughts?

Do you mind the sound of loud motorcycles?

Would you like to see a law put into place that restricts the level of noise that comes from a motorcycle?

Above and further into the report they note the noise is a safety issue so other drivers can hear them.

I personally think that's a crock of sh*t. You have lights, hand signals, turn signals, and if you're going the speed limit and not jetting back and forth through lanes like an idiot, other drivers can and will see you.... they don't need to hear your damn bike barreling down the highway for three counties to hear.

I live not too far from an off ramp on the highway, and hearing air brakes from transfer trucks all day and night is bad enough..... having to hear motorcycles revving and barreling up and down ramps all the damn time, when I'm over a KM away (yet they sound like they're on the same street as I) is a bit much.

and when down town it's even more ridiculous.

South Park did quite well summing up the situation with the episode "The F Word"


Brrummmm brum brum brum bubububububrum brum brummmmmm.....

Don'tget me wrong... I like bikes and always thought of getting one someday..... but the amount of noise that comes out of them is beyond any understanding other then to be an obnoxious douche.

I think laws should be passed and enforced against any unnecessary noise.
 
TenPenny
#3
The 'loud pipes save lives' argument is completely baseless. It's a ploy by Harley owners to try to come up with some reason they should be allowed to make so much noise.

I hate loud vehicles, there's no need of it. One thing I've seen done (by my brother) when you have a neighbor with a loud bike who insists on being noisy: take the muffler off your lawnmower, and be sure to mow near his windows. Those mowers sometimes need to idle for quite a whle, too.
 
lone wolf
+1
#4
If they can restrict the use of jake brakes in trucks because they're noisy, they can stomp on the attention some unbaffled bikers want....
 
karrie
#5
I for one applaud the new by-laws. I hate sitting next to some vehicle so loud that I wouldn't be able to hear emergency vehicles... how is that 'saving lives'? I'm sorry, but what will save lives for bikers is if they ride where they are supposed to in a lane and don't veer up the lane line to pass everyone at a red light, if they don't make sudden, unsignaled lane changes to try to wiggle through traffic faster, and if they drive the speed limit like everyone else. I do not for one minute accept the idea that they need to be loud so that I'm aware they are there when they come up on my right hand side at 90 km/h at a red light when I'm already IN the right hand lane.
 
#juan
#6
It has been proven that putting a real muffler on a motorcycle rather than the megaphone that Harley supplies
does wonders. You can cut down the noise to that of a small car. If cars produce the amount of noise produced by motorcycles.
they are taken of the road. It is high time somebody seriously addressed this issue. I can only assume loud noises
generate testosterone among the biker crowd. There are two bikes that go by our house at 2:am nightly in top end third and fourth gear. Why
is that necessary?
 
JLM
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

It has been proven that putting a real muffler on a motorcycle rather than the megaphone that Harley supplies
does wonders. You can cut down the noise to that of a small car. If cars produce the amount of noise produced by motorcycles.
they are taken of the road. It is high time somebody seriously addressed this issue. I can only assume loud noises
generate testosterone among the biker crowd. There are two bikes that go by our house at 2:am nightly in top end third and fourth gear. Why
is that necessary?

Another thing I find equally obnoxious is these young whipper snappers who think the whole wide world wants to hear their f**king music - most of it containing language that wasn't even whispered 40 years ago.
 
wulfie68
#8
Count me with the anti-noise pollution crowd. I like the way some bikes (especially older Harleys) look and I have nothing against them being on the road, but I don't buy the argument that they raise awareness of other drivers (rather I have been startled on occasion by them, which is NOT a desireable reaction in most circumstances). I think Karrie summed up what can save the lives of bikers: driving defensively and intelligently, while utilizing the safety gear available to them. Having a machine that wakes up the entire area for 3 blocks around them is a nuisance and if it was any other vehicle it would get ticketed.

Living in Pennsylvania now, my wife and I shake our heads at the idiots here who drive around with machines so loud you can't hear anything, but they're helmetless (allowed by law here) with short sleeves and shorts on... no leathers or denim in most cases (which don't help all that much at speed but can help some). It boggles my mind that in age where passengers in cars are required by law to wear seatbelts, there are places that don't mandate helmets on bikers: I'd think insurance companies would write something into the clauses about none usage voiding coverages... unless they're banking that the dead bikers won't make as many claims...
 
lone wolf
#9
...at the speed at which some of those carbon monoxide commandos ride, all a helmet does is preserves an identifiable head after the crash.

Safety?
-classic bikes touring without an illuminated headlamp...
-idiots who pass in the half-lane between traffic...
-a passenger knitting...

This was just today on an hour-and-a-half tour to Naughton and back
 
Risus
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

It has been proven that putting a real muffler on a motorcycle rather than the megaphone that Harley supplies
does wonders. You can cut down the noise to that of a small car. If cars produce the amount of noise produced by motorcycles.
they are taken of the road. It is high time somebody seriously addressed this issue. I can only assume loud noises
generate testosterone among the biker crowd. There are two bikes that go by our house at 2:am nightly in top end third and fourth gear. Why
is that necessary?

The 'megaphone' as you call it, is a dealer option not one supplied by Harley simply because it doesn't meet noise bylaws. And there is nothing like the sound of a legal Harley.

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

...at the speed at which some of those carbon monoxide commandos ride, all a helmet does is preserves an identifiable head after the crash.

Safety?
-classic bikes touring without an illuminated headlamp...
-idiots who pass in the half-lane between traffic...
-a passenger knitting...

This was just today on an hour-and-a-half tour to Naughton and back

I think your comments are referring to the japanese crotch rocket drivers rather than harley riders. Except I'm not sure about knitting...
 
lone wolf
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

The 'megaphone' as you call it, is a dealer option not one supplied by Harley simply because it doesn't meet noise bylaws. And there is nothing like the sound of a legal Harley.



I think your comments are referring to the japanese crotch rocket drivers rather than harley riders. Except I'm not sure about knitting...

The comment about an intact head is general.

How many classic Hondas can legally operate without headlights? I think I know a Hog when I see one passing between me and the pick-up truck beside me ... and yes, the lady was knitting.
 
Risus
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

The comment about an intact head is general.

How many classic Hondas can legally operate without headlights? I think I know a Hog when I see one passing between me and the pick-up truck beside me ... and yes, the lady was knitting.

I wasn't really talking about helmets, but what you say is correct.

Most of the idiots I see driving like you describe on the 401 are on the crotch rockets. Up your way might be different.

I didn't realize that it was against the law for a passenger to knit...
 
lone wolf
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Risus View Post

I wasn't really talking about helmets, but what you say is correct.

Most of the idiots I see driving like you describe on the 401 are on the crotch rockets. Up your way might be different.

I didn't realize that it was against the law for a passenger to knit...

Not against the law ... just not too bright. I don't think I'd be all that comfortable with two stilettos aimed for my kidneys if I had to do a "hang on". From rice rockets I expect to see silly stunts. From two older folks on a vintage Harley? That ain't respect....
 
relic
#14
I'm one of those young whipper snappers mentioned{soon to be 60}I live in a small rural comunity,ans have been riding my Bonny with open megs for 30+ years and have never had one complaint,in fact,lots of compliments.We,m'lady has one too,don't putt arround.
I'll admit to wracking off beside the odd car door,because I didn't have a big wrench to wake the son of a bitch up!
You door slammers,get your heads out of your asses
 
Stretch
#15
I've ridden Harleys for yrs, all with straight pipes, but have also been mindfull of others. To rev up a bike with straight pipes in a built up area deserves a ticket and a very hefty fine. I have no sympathy for those idiots. once again, its a few that spoil it for the rest

Harleys are the only bike allowed to have straight pipes here in Australia, but wankers are working hard to change that.
Last edited by Stretch; Aug 23rd, 2010 at 08:18 PM..
 
Ron in Regina
#16
Well....I haven't had a Harley 'cuz of the income bracket (what I was willing
& able to justify monetarily on a bike), but I've owned a couple of Yamaha
& Honda street bikes.

Most where fairly quiet compared to any Harley (especially both Hondas),
and the power to weight ratio thing got me out'a most close calls when
people didn't "see" me when they where lane changing or backing out of
stalls in parking lots, etc....

My last bike (CB900 with the split-shift 2x5 gearbox) was written-off by
the insurance company (SGI) when a late '70's Ford Grand Marquis
backed out of an angled stall (with speed & authority) in a parking
lot and hit me.

Honda CB900C - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They (she actually, but that's bit the important part) didn't see or hear me.
I got my right leg up out'a the way before my bike ended up 1/2 under the
rear bumper of that land yacht. This wasn't a small bike either....see the
link above.

I tumbled and rolled, and came up dirty and pissed off, but I wasn't hurt.
The bike wasn't as fortunate. Even with the freeway bars, that car ended
up on top of my bike. The power wheel on the car was off the ground, so
she was stuck on top of most of my bike. Could'a been uglier than it was.
 
karrie
#17
See, I don't buy that being a bike makes you uniquely difficult to see. I've seen people pull those same stupid stunts and end up driving into CARS, TRUCKS, even EMERGENCY VEHICLES. Being loud to compensate for being small makes no sense to me. To me, it just lends a false sense of security which I've witnessed bikers take advantage of at grave risk to their lives.
 
Ron in Regina
#18
Drive way out in front of you, & bank on your spotting danger before it gets
to you. With a bike, you weigh little in ratio to power & braking...that's your
advantage.

What I describe above, I couldn't avoid. All I could do was lift a leg before
it was crushed, and roll with the momentum of the Ford. A young girl (about
16yrs old) had borrowed her Grandfathers car, & I think she was showing
off for her boyfriend who was in the passenger seat.

I could have been piloting a 747 on the ground that day and still have been
hit. Her excuse was that she didn't see or hear me though. Didn't make her
any less in the wrong though.
 
Stretch
#19
I was a Safety Officer in the local chapter of HOG for a few yrs, in that time I organised rider training courses and advanced rider training courses.......many of us have had altercations with 4 wheeled vichles since then, myself included, and I came to the conclusion that we were "preaching to the converted"
As a bike rider, when driving a car, I see a bike very easily, to me they stick out like the proverbial dogs testicles, but to someone who has never ridden a bike we appear to be invisible.
My thorts are to get a car licence, you get a motorbike licence first, you ride that bike for at least 12 months before being allowed to apply for a car licence. That way, the awareness of motorbikes out there is implanted......
 
karrie
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

I was a Safety Officer in the local chapter of HOG for a few yrs, in that time I organised rider training courses and advanced rider training courses.......many of us have had altercations with 4 wheeled vichles since then, myself included, and I came to the conclusion that we were "preaching to the converted"
As a bike rider, when driving a car, I see a bike very easily, to me they stick out like the proverbial dogs testicles, but to someone who has never ridden a bike we appear to be invisible.

I think careless drivers who don't look, will always be careless drivers who don't look, no matter what you try to beat into their heads. That's why I keep a steel shield between me and them.
 
Ron in Regina
#21
Perhaps a compromise on this issue would be solved with a bit of ingenuity.



A compressed air horn on a bike with fairly quiet mufflers. The air can (instead
of a compressor) could be located darn near anywhere on a bike, with a nice
chrome mounting sleeve, with an air-line run up front to the horn. Maybe a
nice braided metal line even. Mount it out back like a small NOS can even.



The fact that I could find the above picture shows that I'm not the first person to
think of this...

The bike would be quiet(-ish) at almost any RPM...but it wouldn't have the little
beep-beep horns like they currently have. Once the bike was put back together,
it would be doubtful that someone who didn't know what they where looking at
would even see the thing.

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Aug 23rd, 2010 at 10:01 PM..
 
karrie
#22
I'd be fine with louder horns on bikes.
 
Ron in Regina
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

I'd be fine with louder horns on bikes.


A Motorcycle with a Yacht Horn appeals to me too. It really-really appeals to
me! I wish I'd thought of this back when I still had a bike to try this out with...
...Oh well.
 
wulfie68
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolf View Post

...at the speed at which some of those carbon monoxide commandos ride, all a helmet does is preserves an identifiable head after the crash.

Safety?
-classic bikes touring without an illuminated headlamp...
-idiots who pass in the half-lane between traffic...
-a passenger knitting...

This was just today on an hour-and-a-half tour to Naughton and back

At highway/freeway speeds, a biker is hamburger without a wrapper if anything happens, but at residential speeds, a helmet and leathers can buy some protection.

People who don't want to make sure all their equipment is functional or that want to indulge in stupidity, well, there are SOME laws to deal with some of the issues but its largely Darwinistic.

As for the louder horns, I'm all for them: a far better solution than non-stop noise pollution.
 
Stretch
#25
just on a sidenote.... people are complaining about the new hybrids being too quiet, an apparent danger for the hearing impaired
 
lone wolf
#26
To bad a set of Nathan M5s wouldn't fit without looking re-ea-lly stupid....
 
karrie
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

just on a sidenote.... people are complaining about the new hybrids being too quiet, an apparent danger for the hearing impaired

That's why NO ONE should rely solely on what they can hear when stepping out, etc. As bicycles get more prevalent, stepping out into the street without looking is dangerous enough, let alone when facing a hybrid.
 
lone wolf
#28
The funny thing about people is there is always something else to blame.
 
Ron in Regina
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68 View Post

At highway/freeway speeds, a biker is hamburger without a wrapper if anything happens, but at residential speeds, a helmet and leathers can buy some protection.

People who don't want to make sure all their equipment is functional or that want to indulge in stupidity, well, there are SOME laws to deal with some of the issues but its largely Darwinistic.

As for the louder horns, I'm all for them: a far better solution than non-stop noise pollution.


I've gone down at somewhere between 60-70mph, geared up, and came out
black & blue (and filthy), but without a scratch. Worst was the blow to my ego
when I pulled my back picking up my bike, as I was about 3&1/2hrs away from
what was home at that time.

I was on some windy-twisty in the Qu'appelle valley between the #6 & Craven
in Saskatchewan years ago, and came over a rise on a blind left curve to
discover that the road was missing.

It was an Easter Weekend, and the Road Crew that must have been working on
that piece of pavement (switching it back to gravel) had left several inches of
loose gravel that I discovered at the top of that rise as I was dropping over it.
I was focusing on the road, and must have missed any signs if there where any.
I didn't go back to check. Oh well...

I held onto the bike after I pulled it over, so it wouldn't start flipping and eventually
run me over, as I slid along behind it. When it was all done but the cry'n, & I was
down to about 15-20mph....I pushed away from the bike which only flipped once
after that.

I crawled over and shut it down as it was still running, and then cracked my Helmet,
blew some of the dirt out'a my nose, and lit a smoke. There was about a city
block of dust hanging in the air above that valley road. Me, my bike (paint & chrome),
everything....was all the same color of dust. Even with a fully enclosed full face helmet,
my ears & nose where packed full of dirt and dust. It was everywhere...

A farmer came along within a few minutes, and asked if the bike was OK. Then asked
if I was OK too. I picked up the bike, but had lost enought acid out'a the battery as the
bike was on its side that it didn't want to start. A quick boost and I was on my way
again. Life lesson in there somewhere, I guess. That block or more of dust was still
hanging in the air.

I burned through (on my right butt cheek) a pair of military surplus foul weather pants,
and a pair of those ugly Pace-Setter sweat pants (this was a while ago...), and the
pocket of my jeans underneath them (It was the Easter Weekend, & pretty cold out
still), and also burned through (friction) a significant portion of my wallet that was in
that back pocket. Glass 1/2 full & silver lining sort'a thing...my long underwear where
just fine still. I ended up with a bruise on that butt cheek, that was bigger than that
butt cheek though.

Not a cut. Not a scratch....but later that night I discovered that I was black & blue from
the back of my knees to my shoulders. Still about 2hrs from home, I ended up hitting
an torrential spring thunderstorm. Cold...wet...dirty...that turned into a long day.
 
talloola
#30
I hate those loud bikes, I think it should be against the law. Our vehicles have to have mufflers,
and if we don't, we will get a ticket, same should be with them.

We see the big 'touring' bikes all the time, with soft sounds, they all should be like that.
 

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