How did the Prophet believe ?


eanassir
#1
How did the Prophet believe until he became certain?

At the start he was thinking and contemplating and wishing to do some reformation in his community; so God sent the angel to him to tell him he became an apostle to his people.

This is in the Quran 96: 1-5
اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ . خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ . اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ . الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ . عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ
The explanation:
( [O Mohammed] recite: in the name of your Lord Who created [the universe from the non-existence.]

[Who] created man from the 'worm-like structure'.

Recite, and your Lord is the Most Generous.

Who taught [the writing] with the pen [so that heavenly revelations might be written down.]

He taught man [some of the knowledge and sciences] that he did not know [before.])


The Prophet refused at the start; then was in hesitation, then returned to his family with distress; he said to them: "Cover me with some blankets."

Then the angel came again to him and said: "Arise and carry up your duty."
This is in the Quran 74: 1-7
يَا أَيُّهَا الْمُدَّثِّرُ . قُمْ فَأَنذِرْ . وَرَبَّكَ فَكَبِّرْ . وَثِيَابَكَ فَطَهِّرْ . وَالرُّجْزَ فَاهْجُرْ . وَلَا تَمْنُن تَسْتَكْثِرُ . وَلِرَبِّكَ فَاصْبِرْ

The explanation:
( O you [: Mohammed] covering yourself [with your blankets!]

Arise [to carry out your duty], and warn [your people against idolatry.]

And magnify your Lord.

And purify your garments.

And forsake those saying 'derisive poetry'.

Consider not your expenditure so much, making that a favor [to people.]

But forbear [the hurt of your people, and let that be] for [the sake of] your Lord.)

www.quran-ayat.com
 
eanassir
#2
Prophet Mohammed was misguided like his idolatrous people
Prophet Mohammed at the start was (like many other prophets before him) in error and misguidance, and then God guided him, acquainted and taught him through revelation and inspiration.

Some Muslims out of their ignorance and imitation to each other, and the rigidity of thinking, they followed (like all other peoples and nations) their traditions which God did not reveal.

So such Muslims cannot imagine the idea that the Prophet at the start was in misguidance and say: No he was rightly guided: worshipping God alone from the start.

While when we see the Quran in many ayat like the ayat 93: 6-8

أَلَمْ يَجِدْكَ يَتِيمًا فَآوَى . وَوَجَدَكَ ضَالًّا فَهَدَى . وَوَجَدَكَ عَائِلًا فَأَغْنَى

The explanation:
( Did He not find you an orphan, and give you shelter [to your grandfather then to your uncle]?

Did He not find you erring [from the religion], and guide you [by inspiration and revelation]?

Did He not find you destitute with a family, and enrich you [by trading and by the wealth of your wife Khadieja]?

Therefore, as for the orphan: oppress him not.

As for the beggar: scold him not.

And as for your Lord's favor [on you: your message]: 'rehearse and proclaim' it [to people.])


When he saw his people worshipping the stone idols and saw their error and wronging of each other, he wished sincerely to guide them and save them from their social difficulties.

www.quran-ayat.com
 
petros
#3
Can you learn to ride a bicycle from a book and people who have only read the book but have never seen let alone ridden a bicycle?

What makes spirituality any different?
 
eanassir
#4
Other prophets who were misguided at the start, then God guided them:

Abraham was one of the Shiaa (devoted followers of Noah), then God guided him to devote himself to Him alone until he broke up the idols of his people and became the Loyal Friend of God (or the Devoted Alley of God.)

Moses at the start: there were expectation of his advent before he became an apostle at his age of 40 years. And there were the Shiaa of Moses before his advent. Those used to claim they await his coming as their savior. But Moses was a devoted to God alone: did not mind to do anything for the sake of his God. So he loved his people but when they committed the idolatry and worshipped the gold statue of the calf, he ordered killig a large number of them.

The Awaited Mahdi also he be one of the Shiaa of Ali and his sons, then God reform him in one single night so he convert from "a devoted to Ali" to "a devoted to God alone".

Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Can you learn to ride a bicycle from a book and people who have only read the book but have never seen let alone ridden a bicycle?

What makes spirituality any different?


This is not a good example. People are the same everywhere with only some minor differences. They understand very well what I am saying.

The implication: Mohammed was truthful, who reached his certain belief gradually , and God warned him not to do like the idolaters and to beware of their wickedness.
================================================== ==


God confirmed his apostle Mohammed, by revealing the Quran, during all such stages

At the start, his people ridiculed and mocked him, and tried to let him waver about his apostle-hood; so he was suspicious and wavering at the beginning.

Then with the succession of the revelation of the Quran revelations, his belief became sure and he became certain about his prophet-hood and apostle-hood.

"So this is in the Quran 10: 95-97

فَإِن كُنتَ فِي شَكٍّ مِّمَّا أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ فَاسْأَلِ الَّذِينَ يَقْرَؤُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِن قَبْلِكَ لَقَدْ جَاءكَ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ . وَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُواْ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ فَتَكُونَ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ .


The explanation:
(And if you [Mohammed] are in doubt of that which We have sent down to you , then question those who read the Scripture [that was] before you. The truth, indeed, has come to you from your Lord; so be not of those who waver.

And be not of those who say the signs [of revelation] of God are lies, or you will be of those who lose [the prophethood.] )

The interpretation :
>> (And if you [Mohammed] are in doubt of that) revelation (which We have sent down to you), (then question those) Jews (who read the Scripture [that was] before you) and say to them: Was Moses an angel that came down from heaven? Or was he a human being like you? And were the prophets angels that came down from heaven? Or were they human beings like you?

So that if they answer you that they were human beings like you, then be certain that you are a messenger (or an apostle) from God, then carry out your duty and warn people, and God will guide whom He will [to guide] and you are not responsible about their guidance.

>> (The truth, indeed, has come to you from your Lord) and not from the Jinni (or demons) as they claim.

>> (So be not of those who waver) i.e. of those who doubt, means: Dont doubt about yourself and dont feel unable about the mission; because God chooses for it whom He pleases of His servants, and now He has chosen you for it.

>> (And be not of those who say the signs [of revelation] of God are lies), so that you say it may be from the Jinni (or demons) and [it is] not an angel [that brings it down.]

>> (Or you will be of those who lose [the prophethood].) So that you will lose the prophethood while God has chosen you for it."


B. Why did God order Mohammed to ask the People of the Bible ?
Is the Hebrew Bible then correct and authentic?
 
petros
#5
Quoting petros Can you learn to ride a bicycle from a book and people who have only read the book but have never seen let alone ridden a bicycle?

What makes spirituality any different?

Quote:

This is not a good example. People are the same everywhere with only some minor differences. They understand very well what I am saying.

They understand how to ride a bicycle from you because you read a book on how to ride a bicyle but you've never ridden one and they've never ridden one?

Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Confiuscius were all bike riders. What book did they learn from?
 
Cliffy
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post


Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Confiuscius were all bike riders. What book did they learn from?

Now that is unfair. You know Mohammed was illiterate so he couldn't ride a bike. And there were no books when most of the other dudes were around so how could any of them ride bikes?
 
petros
#7
he still knew how to ride a bike and never read the book on how to ride a bike so how did he know how to ride the bike?
 
eanassir
#8
Petros on the bike
Before riding your bike be certain of your diapers and change your upside sitting
 
petros
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir View Post

Petros on the bike
Before riding your bike be certain of your diapers and change your upside sitting

Did you learn to ride the bike yet or are you still trying to memorize the book on how to ride a bike and going around telling other to read the book on how to ride a bike een though none of you even know what the bike looks like or if the book even properly explain how to ride a bike?
 
eanassir
#10
Petros,
I know how to ride the bicycle; I learned that by practice not from books; thank you.

Mohammed did not ride a bicycle; he rode the camel;

Jesus rode the donkey during his travels to Jerusalem and other cities in Palestine;

I think Moses used to walk on his legs: he might rode the horse during his travels from Egypt to Sinai (when he ran away from Pharaoh), then from Sinai to Egypt (when he returned to Egypt after Pharaoh the father died), then from Egypt to Sinai (in the Exodus) ??

Abu Abd-Allah knew how to ride the bicycle; he consulted me about riding the bicycle, and said to me: "I know how to ride the bicycle." but I advised him (may be I was wrong) not to ride the bicycle; I thought it might decrease his respect in the community, and when he became old he had a tremor, and he used the sport stationary bicycle (the excercise bicycle) to overcome such tremor, and he succeeded in that: he was cured of the tremor of senility, or the tremor much lessened by using the excercise bicycle.
Last edited by eanassir; Jul 26th, 2010 at 09:33 AM..
 
petros
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir View Post

Petros,
I know how to ride the bicycle; I learned that by practice not from books; thank you.

If you really knew how to ride the spiritual bicycle you wouldn't try to get others to ride the bike by referring to a book. You'd give your personal experiences of how to ride the bike.
 
eanassir
#12
Good idea, but here the spiritual bicycle? The heavenly book: man has to know it and practice it. Because the Quran has two aspects: belief and practice. Man has not to confy himself to reading it but to practice its instructions.
 
Spade
+1
#13  Top Rated Post
There was a prophet, by gar!
Who was said to wander afar,
Telling tales to us all-
Some short, others tall-
That profit the prpphet by far!
 
petros
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir View Post

Good idea, but here the spiritual bicycle? The heavenly book: man has to know it and practice it. Because the Quran has two aspects: belief and practice. Man has not to confy himself to reading it but to practice its instructions.

The heavenly book man doesn't know it either otherwise he wouldn't need the book. If you don't know where the bicycle is, then you've never ridden it.
 
Cliffy
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

The heavenly book man doesn't know it either otherwise he wouldn't need the book. If you don't know where the bicycle is, then you've never ridden it.

I think the metaphor is beyond him. You might want to try to express you point more directly.

We cannot learn about gods, truth or life from books. It is all in the experiences of life. Books only stifle the mind, heart and spirit.
 
ShintoMale
#16
error
 
AnnaG
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir View Post

Good idea, but here the spiritual bicycle? The heavenly book: man has to know it and practice it. Because the Quran has two aspects: belief and practice. Man has not to confy himself to reading it but to practice its instructions.

That bicycle has no wheels.
People can learn to be good people without the use of some book or other telling them how and what to do. And in that case, reality supplies the wheels.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

I think the metaphor is beyond him. You might want to try to express you point more directly.

Wasted effort. At least metaphors, similes, analogies, etc. are fun.

Quote:

We cannot learn about gods, truth or life from books. It is all in the experiences of life. Books only stifle the mind, heart and spirit.

That's a narrow approach to them. Basically you are saying that knowledge is worthless unless it is experienced. Sorry, but if someone showed me a book that said fire is hot, even though I might try putting my hand near a fire to check, I'd still do it with caution.
Besides that, some books inspire people, like the Quran obviously inspires eannassir, albeit unreasonably. Physics books inspired Einstein to snoop into relativity. I'm sure Shakespeare's books, Ghibran's books, etc. inspired a lot of people to write plays, stories, and poetry. Why did you write your books? For the money? What if people who could not experience Sinixt personally actually read your books?
Last edited by AnnaG; Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:42 PM..
 
petros
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

That bicycle has no wheels.
People can learn to be good people without the use of some book or other telling them how and what to do. And in that case, reality supplies the wheels.

Wasted effort. At least metaphors, similes, analogies, etc. are fun.

That's a narrow approach to them. Basically you are saying that knowledge is worthless unless it is experienced. Sorry, but if someone showed me a book that said fire is hot, even though I might try putting my hand near a fire to check, I'd still do it with caution.
Besides that, some books inspire people, like the Quran obviously inspires eannassir, albeit unreasonably. Physics books inspired Einstein to snoop into relativity. I'm sure Shakespeare's books, Ghibran's books, etc. inspired a lot of people to write plays, stories, and poetry. Why did you write your books? For the money? What if people who could not experience Sinixt personally actually read your books?

A book about riding a bicycle (something you've never seen) is nothing like a book that says something is hot. How can a book about riding something you've never seen or experienced in any way be inspiring? It's a cruel joke to make someone memorize a book about the joys of riding a bike when they will never be able to learn to ride a bike from the book. Where in the book of the holy bicycle do you find actual instructions on how to ride a bicycle? There are instructions for the rules of the road and all the hand signals which are niceties and courtesies and that's great but maybe they don't give you proper instructions because they don't want you to ride the bicycle?
 
AnnaG
#19
wow Awesome spin (pun intended).
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

A book about riding a bicycle (something you've never seen) is nothing like a book that says something is hot.

I didn't say "something", I said "fire". A book can describe pretty much everything about fire except the sensation of heat. In which case, it can tell you that the heat from the fire would burn you. Or are you suggesting we are born knowing fire?
Quote:

How can a book about riding something you've never seen or experienced in any way be inspiring?

There's no such thing as curiosity?
Quote:

It's a cruel joke to make someone memorize a book about the joys of riding a bike when they will never be able to learn to ride a bike from the book.

I've never practised my anthropology degree, but I sure enjoy reading about it.
How does one practise arithmetic? Reading?
Quote:

Where in the book of the holy bicycle do you find actual instructions on how to ride a bicycle? There are instructions for the rules of the road and all the hand signals which are niceties and courtesies and that's great but maybe they don't give you proper instructions because they don't want you to ride the bicycle?

Learn to Ride a Bike (E-book - $14.95)

Books are not a necessity for a lot of things, but they sure help sometimes.
 
petros
#20
1. You can see fire but you can't see spirituality.
2. Curiosity about spirituality won't even give you a taste of it just like riding a bike you've never seen or experienced will never give an uncling of what it is like.
3. Rules of the road and hand signals. Until applied they sit in waiting.
4. Just another guide (at a fee) that will never give you experience until you hop on.

Moses, Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, Confucius et al all did the same thing to ride the bike.

It's in the texts on bike riding but the description is brief but describes them all having good times and bad riding the bike.

What do you think that was?
 
AnnaG
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

1. You can see fire but you can't see spirituality.

Not all the time. If you tell me that hydrogen fire is visible, I'll think you are spoofing me.
Quote:

2. Curiousity about spirituality won't even give you a taste of it just like riding a bike you've never seen or experienced will never give an incling of what it is like.

It'll prod you to investigate further. Which is all I am saying.
Quote:

3. Rules of the road and hand signals. Until applied they sit in waiting.

The book includes some common sense rules, but it also describes how to go about aspects of riding.
Quote:

4. Just another giude that will never give you experience until you hop on.

Did I say it was any different?

Quote:

Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Confusicous et al all did the same thing to ride the bike.

It's in the texts on bike riding but the description is breif but describes them all having good times and bad riding the bike.

What do you think that was?

As I said at the beginning to eannassir, people can learn to be good people without the use of some book or other telling them how and what to do. And in that case, reality supplies the wheels. One can read a book and add 1+1 to get two on paper. One can hold a finger up and then another to see two fingers.
 
petros
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post


As I said at the beginning to eannassir, people can learn to be good people without the use of some book or other telling them how and what to do. And in that case, reality supplies the wheels. One can read a book and add 1+1 to get two on paper. One can hold a finger up and then another to see two fingers.

Still just a guide that leaves you in question.

Quote:

Quote:
Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius et al all did the same thing to ride the bike.

It's in the texts on bike riding but the description is brief but describes them all having good times and bad riding the bike.

What do you think that was?

Any guesses?
 
AnnaG
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Still just a guide that leaves you in question.

Unless you can accept the info and just leave it at that. Either way, it does not take the Bible or the Quran for people to figure out for themselves what decent principles are. But, they can help some to do just that.

Quote:

Any guesses?

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about there so I have no idea how to answer your q.
 
petros
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

Unless you can accept the info and just leave it at that. Either way, it does not take the Bible or the Quran for people to figure out for themselves what decent principles are. But, they can help some to do just that.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about there so I have no idea how to answer your q.

I know. That's why you are way off but that's okay.

As I said before the books about how to ride the Holy Bike will never teach you how to truly ride a bike. They are just the rules of the road and hand signals for courteous use of the bike path IF you ever figure out what a bike is and how to ride it.


When Moses, Jesus, Mo, Buddha, Confucious and other true bicycle riders went bike riding what did they do that is in the book but but isn't part of what any learned book reading leader teaches you about riding a bike because book leaders have no idea on how to ride a bike either.


What did they all do to learn to ride a bike that nobody is taught or is practised by bicycle riding story tellers in churches synagogues, mosques, temples and shrines?
 
eanassir
#25
Now I leave your bike, and tell you this:

The belief of Mohammed increased gradually until he reached the certainty

At the start Prophet Mohammed refused the task of the apostlehood when he was told by the angel, then he conceived some doubt about it, then gradually believed until he reached the certainty of belief.

Then it is revealed to him in the Quran 2: 285
آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ ...الخ

The explanation:
(The messenger [Mohammed] has now believed in that revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers [have also believed.] Each one [of them] believes in God and His angels and His Books [:Scriptures] and His messengers [:apostles], etc.)

1

This implies he was truthful: because no need to claim he doubts about his prophet-hood; this will lead people to doubt also because he tries to convince them that he was sent to them against the idolatry and bearing God's word to them: the Glorious Quran; then he can't say to them: I doubt about this.
================================================== ====

Another argument against the denial of his people

When the prophet started to call his people (they were idolaters: worshipping the stone idols and claiming the idols were the symbols of the angels: the angels in heaven and the idols on earth); so when he invited them to abandon their idolatry and worship God the Creator alone without associate, they refused and opposed him.

They wrangled with him so much, and this aya 10: 16 was revealed
قُل لَّوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا تَلَوْتُهُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلاَ أَدْرَاكُم بِهِ فَقَدْ لَبِثْتُ فِيكُمْ عُمُرًا مِّن قَبْلِهِ أَفَلاَ تَعْقِلُونَ

The explanation:
(Say [Mohammed to your people who denied you]:

"Had God so willed [: to praise your idols], I should not have rehearsed it [: the Quran] to you, nor would He have acquainted you therewith;

for I have tarried a long time [: forty years] with you, prior to this [revelation of the Quran; so did I in any occasion say to you that I am an apostle of God, or did I ever forbid you to worship idols? But it is only now God has revealed to me and I have come to tell you]

Will you not then discern [the truth?]")

www.quran-ayat.com
================================================== =====

The belief is demonstrated by many grades:
He tells his family members, his near knidred and his tribe that he is the apostle of God.
He opposes their furiosity and anger concerning their idols.
He deserts his friends and relatives for the sake of God alone.
He disowns the idolaters.
He does not incline to the idolatry eventhough a little bit.
He pertains to God and they pertain to the associating of their idols and the angels with God Almighty.

Examples:
1- When the believers suffered a setback at Uhud, Abu Sufian the leader of the idolaters cried: Glory to Hubal (: their idol)
The prophet said to the believers: answer him: God is More Glorious and More Great.

Abu Sufian cried: "We have the Uzza (another idol), while you have no Uzza"
The prophet said to the believers: answer him: God is our Master and Patron, while you have no master."

2- One of the Arab tribe apostatized from the Islam and one of them: Musailama claimed the prophethood, and send a message to the Prophet telling him: Half of the land in Arabia is for our tribe, and the other half is to your tribe.

The prophet told him: "The land as a whole belongs to God Who gives out of His possession whatever He likes to whomever He likes."

So in all circumstances, he calls on God and pertains to God alone indicating his sure faith and certain belief.
Last edited by eanassir; Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:56 AM..
 
AnnaG
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

I know. That's why you are way off but that's okay.

I don't know what I am off of, but that's ok, too.

Quote:

As I said before the books about how to ride the Holy Bike will never teach you how to truly ride a bike. They are just the rules of the road and hand signals for courteous use of the bike path IF you ever figure out what a bike is and how to ride it.

Like I pointed out before, though, a book can describe every aspect about riding the bike except what it feels like to be riding it. That includes but is not confined to just the rules and regs. A simple sketch, hold bike upright, swing leg over it and sit on the seat while holding yourself up with one leg. Push forward with that leg to get bike rolling and lift foot off the ground a little. Balance by keeping your CoG over the centerline of bike. Once mast3ery of balance is achieved, pedal. It ain't rocket science.
Spiritual bike says, "live, respect other life, and worship so-and-so". Rocket science?


Quote:

When Moses, Jesus, Mo, Buddha, Confucious and other true bicycle riders went bike riding what did they do that is in the book but but isn't part of what any learned book reading leader teaches you about riding a bike because book leaders have no idea on how to ride a bike either.


What did they all do to learn to ride a bike that nobody is taught or is practised by bicycle riding story tellers in churches synagogues, mosques, temples and shrines?

I'll let you know after I become each one of them. I can make guesses, though. Perhaps one thought this is a great way to be famous. Another thought perhaps this is a great way to make a living, just travelling around gabbing. The list could be endless.
 
eanassir
#27
The Prophet worshipped his Lord until he became certain in belief that he is an apostle of God

The people of Mohammed mocked him at the beginning of his mission, and said to him: That Quran which comes to you is only from the Devil and not from God. So he coceived some doubt about his mission at the start; therefore, these ayat 15: 97-99 were revealed:

وَلَقَدْ نَعْلَمُ أَنَّكَ يَضِيقُ صَدْرُكَ بِمَا يَقُولُونَ . فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ وَكُن مِّنَ السَّاجِدِينَ . وَاعْبُدْ رَبَّكَ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَكَ الْيَقِينُ
The explanation:
(And We know for certain that your breast is much embarrassed by [the words] they [: the idolaters] say.

Then celebrate the praise of your Lord [O Mohammed], and be [one] of those who prostrate themselves [to Him] in adoration.

And worship your Lord until you become certain [that you are sent by God.])


The interpretation:
( And worship your Lord until you become certain [that you are sent by God.])

And that the Quran is from God not from Satan and demons as do these idolaters and associaters claim.

That is because the Prophet conceived some doubt at the start when his people mocked him and said: the revelation that comes to you is from Satan not from God.

www.quran-ayat.com
Last edited by eanassir; Jul 30th, 2010 at 10:52 AM..
 
Kathie Bondar
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

he still knew how to ride a bike and never read the book on how to ride a bike so how did he know how to ride the bike?

All jest, no substance.
Mohammed was a great thinker and when he tried to convey his thought was being ridiculed. By the time he gained some public acceptance he has been struck by polio and withdrew from the public eye. Try to explain to a bunch of ignoramuses that even though you have a great mind, you can be subject to infection and disease.

Moderator's Edit: Link removed.
Last edited by shadowshiv; Jul 31st, 2010 at 08:47 PM..
 
petros
#29
Have you figured out how to ride the holy bike yet?
 
eanassir
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Have you figured out how to ride the holy bike yet?

Be my teacher and teach me and have the favor on me.
 

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