Canada goes to War


View Poll Results: Do you support the Mission
Yes 10 50.00%
No 8 40.00%
Humanitaran aid only 3 15.00%
Air support Yes 8 40.00%
Advisers on the ground Yes 8 40.00%
Advisers on the ground No 1 5.00%
Increased immigration of DP's Yes 2 10.00%
Increased immigration of DP's No 5 25.00%
Deploy FOO, Forward Observation Officer Yes 6 30.00%
Deploy FOO, Forward Observation Officer No 1 5.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

Goober
+1
#1
Canada goes to War.

Points- should we have advisers on the ground- FOO- Forward Observation Officers Targeting the correct targets and not misused as does happen to settle blood -tribal feuds as has occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan..

Trainers for Iraqi- Kurdish soldiers?

Harper announces plan to send CF-18s to bomb ISIS in Iraq | National Post
OTTAWA — Canada is poised to go to war in Iraq, as Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced plans in Parliament today to send CF-18 fighter jets for up to six months to battle Islamic extremists.

In his address to the House of Commons, Harper outlined the rationale for why Canada needs to join other countries in a combat mission against ISIS.

Up to six CF-18s will join the fray over Iraq in the coming days. In addition, Canada plans to send surveillance aircraft and refuelling tanks as part of the mission – which, until now, had only involved non-combat Canadian military advisers.

Matthew Fisher: Still unswayed about need to fight ISIS, Justin Trudeau? Here is why it’s a no-brainer | National Post

ERBIL, Iraq — Scores of young women forced into sex slavery, hundreds of mass executions and thousands of other gross human rights violations of every imaginable kind, especially against Shiites, Christians and Iraqi minority groups such as the Yazidis.

ISIS fight: 6-month maximum attached to Canada's air combat offer - Politics - CBC News

Despite the proposed time limit and lack of ground troops, Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau said the party will not support the mission.

"The Liberal Party of Canada can not and will not support this prime minister's motion to go to war in Iraq," he said.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair didn't explicitly rule out supporting it, but said he hopes for a fuller debate on Monday, the day scheduled for debate, and said humanitarian aid and diplomatic measures should come before a military assault.
Last edited by Goober; Oct 3rd, 2014 at 12:47 PM..
 
CDNBear
+3
#2
Well, that's a little disheartening, I would have liked to see our next course of action discussed on the floor, before we committed ourselves to anything.

On the upside, we aren't committing troops, and the aid is always a nice touch. But I doubt it will sway the collective angst of the perpetually shocked and terminally offended. Their sphincters would never get any exercise otherwise.
 
Goober
+1
#3
Harper could have but he put Trudeau in a corner on R2P which was promoted by the Liberals. An ongoing genocide and he would do nothing. And then we have his commentary about whipping out our big jets.
I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to his inner circle of advisers.
That shad, Arab countries can put boots on the ground.
Only way to root them out. Then let them have their trials
Ralph Klein's comment on the farmer reporting the 1st case of Mad Cow Disease does comes to mind.
 
CDNBear
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Harper could have but he put Trudeau in a corner on R2P which was promoted by the Liberals.

True enough.

i just listened to some Liberal hack on 640, avoid answering the question... "Isn't it a little hypocritical of the Liberals to condemn Harper for something their own party has done, on a grander scale".

Quote:

An ongoing genocide and he would do nothing.

You mean just like the last one?

Quote:

And then we have his commentary about whipping out our big jets.

No big surprise there, his cult followers play the same cards here.

Quote:

I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to his inner circle of advisers.

Of which Sasha is an interesting addition. I'm sure the atmosphere is almost erotic. I'm sure the dictatorship that ISIS has forced upon the innocent is something that excites the hell out of old brutal dictaster loving Sasha.

Quote:

That shad, Arab countries can put boots on the ground.
Only way to root them out. Then let them have their trials

Hmmm, I'm reminded of the South Vietnamese Army, and lots of almost new M16's, only been dropped once.

Quote:

Ralph Klein's comment on the farmer reporting the 1st case of Mad Cow Disease does comes to mind.

Not a big follower of the man, you'll have to elaborate.
 
Goober
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

True enough.

i just listened to some Liberal hack on 640, avoid answering the question... "Isn't it a little hypocritical of the Liberals to condemn Harper for something their own party has done, on a grander scale".

You mean just like the last one?

No big surprise there, his cult followers play the same cards here.

Of which Sasha is an interesting addition. I'm sure the atmosphere is almost erotic. I'm sure the dictatorship that ISIS has forced upon the innocent is something that excites the hell out of old brutal dictaster loving Sasha.

Hmmm, I'm reminded of the South Vietnamese Army, and lots of almost new M16's, only been dropped once.

Not a big follower of the man, you'll have to elaborate.

When the AB farmer notified Agr Canada or whoever- Ralph's comment was the farmer should have shot, shovel and shut up.

And that is what we will se with boots on the ground.
Not Western countries.
A couple of things that run deep in Arab culture- Blood feuds and revenge.
And when they capture Westerners, confirmed ISIL members, confirmed they committed mass killings, they will be if reaching trial subject to Iraqi Law.
And that will be a DP sentence.
I wonder how Mulcair and Trudeau will react then?
I personally am against the DP. But that is the sentence they will in all probability receive.
The trials will require the appearance of judicial fairness, not what happened in Egypt a few months back.
And what Western country will want them back after.
Well if jailed for 30 or 40 years, maybe.

Shooting, shoveling, and shutting up - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shooting, shoveling, and shutting up, also known as the 3-S treatment, refers to a method for dealing with unwanted or unwelcome animals in rural areas.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ra...734/story.html

4. Shoot, shovel and shut-up

One of Klein’s most remembered remarks occurred in the midst of the 2003 mad cow crisis when he infamously told a meeting of Western Governors in Big Sky, Mont., that “any self respecting rancher would have shot, shovelled and shut up” after discovering one of his cows was suffering from bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE. “Instead he took it to an abattoir and it was discovered after testing in both Winnipeg and the U.K. that this cow had mad cow disease,” the premier said.
 
CDNBear
+1
#6
Gotchya.

Canadian Black Watch in WWII kinda stuff.

We don't do that sorta thing anymore, we be all civilized and ****.
 
Goober
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Gotchya.

Canadian Black Watch in WWII kinda stuff.

We don't do that sorta thing anymore, we be all civilized and ****.

It did send a message to the SS though.
 
BaalsTears
+1
#8
Why do so many Canadians think of this as their war?
 
Goober
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

Why do so many Canadians think of this as their war?

We do not.
We consider it a genocide. Much like Bosnia was.
The EU then set on their respective as-s-es - French having centuries old ties to the Serbs, was for no action.
Germany - doing squat.
It took Clinton to act.
 
CDNBear
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

Why do so many Canadians think of this as their war?

Not sure how you got that feeling, from where I sit, it seems a lot of Canadians, think it's your war.
 
BaalsTears
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

We do not.
We consider it a genocide. Much like Bosnia was.
The EU then set on their respective as-s-es - French having centuries old ties to the Serbs, was for no action.
Germany - doing squat.
It took Clinton to act.

I do not accept the Responsibility to Protect Doctrine. Genocide, if this be such, is not a sufficient reason to take one's own people to war...especially when one's people will stop supporting the war as soon as the going gets tough.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Not sure how you got that feeling, from where I sit, it seems a lot of Canadians, think it's your war.

I'm just trying to smoke the Canadians out. This isn't my war. It's not America's war either because Obama hasn't sought action by Congress to authorize the war. This is Obama's war.
 
JLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Canada goes to War.

Points- should we have advisers on the ground- FOO- Forward Observation Officers Targeting the correct targets and not misused as does happen to settle blood -tribal feuds as has occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan..


If that situation in the M.E. doesn't warrant it, I doubt if anything ever will.
 
Goober
#13
The civil war in Syria Mulcair has linked to the US- Iraq war.
It would have nothing to do with the harsh measures Assad implemented to stop demonstrations- kidnappings, mass arrests, disappearances.
ISIS fight: 6-month maximum attached to Canada's air combat offer - Politics - CBC News

Mulcair said he's concerned Canada could end up bombing Syria without the government going back to the House for further debate.

In an interview to air Saturday at 9 a.m. on CBC Radio's The House, the NDP leader said "no one's learning the lessons" of the past 12 years in the region around Iraq and Syria.


Point -
As to lessons - Mulcair states over the past 12 years- again he is in error- the present problems result from UK- France imposing borders and crafting states and areas of influence after WW1 in the ME. Mulcair should take a history lesson or 12.
Canada will not go into Syria. Only the US has. The EU countries also refuse to go into Syria.
The ground work for ISIL was laid by Nouri al Maliki.

Intimidation, Cronyism, Repression: The Unfortunate Legacy of Iraq's Nouri al-Maliki - Defense One

There are many factors underlying last week’s spectacular collapse of the Iraqi security forces and the quick sweep of Sunni militants through Mosul and other parts of northern Iraq. The militants, led by fighters from the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), took advantage of the vacuum created by the civil war in Syria; financing from individual donors and tacit support from some officials in the Gulf Arab states; growing resentment among Iraq’s Sunni minority against the Shiite-led government in Baghdad; and the failure of Iraqi leaders to create a functional political system.

But it’s prime minister Nuri al-Maliki who bears the greatest blame for the catastrophe unfolding in Iraq today. Since he took office in 2006, and especially since his reelection in 2010, Maliki has become increasingly repressive and authoritarian. He has used the Iraqi security forces to suppress opponents and intimidate his political rivals, installing his cronies in key security posts. He has shown little willingness to make the compromises necessary to lead an inclusive government, and to ease a new wave of sectarian bloodletting. He has failed to follow through on power-sharing agreements, refused to include prominent Sunni leaders in his government, and strained relations with the semi-autonomous Kurdish region over oil-revenue sharing deals.

When peaceful protests broke out in 2012, led by Sunni tribal leaders frustrated by Maliki’s policies, he responded with a crackdown: an armed assault on protest camps in Anbar province and mass arrests of Sunnis. Maliki managed to alienate Iraqi Sunnis and Kurds, and empowered the Sunni militias and extremists now threatening to take over.
 
BaalsTears
#14
When the Fuzzy Wuzzies sail up the Saint Lawrence it's time to fight.
 
CDNBear
+1
#15
"the NDP leader said "no one's learning the lessons" of the past 12 years in the region around Iraq and Syria."

Wow, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with him.
 
Goober
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

"the NDP leader said "no one's learning the lessons" of the past 12 years in the region around Iraq and Syria."

Wow, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with him.

So do we stand aside?
And Mulcair is incorrect. He states that this could lead to bombing Syria- Canadians would freak on that one.
It is not 12 years, it is nearing the 100 mark. It is Religion & tribal politics at its worst with the past PM of Iraq.
That is why they have an uprising.
The so called feared Peshmerga- Under trained- under equipped and got their respective as-sses kicked.

This time Arabs - Muslims are finally stepping up to the plate.

Using PGM's is a waste of money.
They know the areas that ISIl has troops in and around Kobani on the Turkish border. They used PGMs to little avail. Took out some tanks and such. Literally no significant damage against ISIL
B 52's 500 lb load, carpet a select area.
Pick up the pieces later.
 
CDNBear
#17
I don't know what to tell you Goob's. What's been done hasn't worked. Power vacuums suck up the scum and they just take over.

Puppet dictatorships don't sit well with me.

And it looks like we're heading right back into that same stupid thinking.

Baals has the right idea, full commitment. That is the only way that this will be won.
 
Goober
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I don't know what to tell you Goob's. What's been done hasn't worked. Power vacuums suck up the scum and they just take over.

Puppet dictatorships don't sit well with me.

And it looks like we're heading right back into that same stupid thinking.

Baals has the right idea, full commitment. That is the only way that this will be won.

Well as I have stated before, let Iraq split along ethic lines, sharing resources, A loose Federation.
Eventually the Kurds will separate.
 
CDNBear
+2
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

Well as I have stated before, let Iraq split along ethic lines, sharing resources, A loose Federation.
Eventually the Kurds will separate.

How about we let them sort out how they want to divvy up their world?
 
Goober
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

How about we let them sort out how they want to divvy up their world?

For Iraq that is what I see coming.
Every country that has a Muslim majority tramples the Muslim minority, include other minorities as well.
Same thing happened in Africa with borders set by the Brits, French and such.
They used the old Roman way of divide and conquer.
Set a minority as the power group. Rwanda comes to mind.
 
WLDB
+3
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears View Post

I'm just trying to smoke the Canadians out. This isn't my war. It's not America's war either because Obama hasn't sought action by Congress to authorize the war. This is Obama's war.

Almost every war since the end of WW2 has belonged to whoever happened to be President at the time. Skipping congress and going to war without them seems to be pretty routine now. They could always refuse to give the President money for these adventures but I dont see that happening anytime soon for Obama or at least one or two of his successors.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober View Post

So do we stand aside?
And Mulcair is incorrect. He states that this could lead to bombing Syria- Canadians would freak on that one.

ISIS is in Syria as well as Iraq. If they notice no one is attacking them in Syria all they have to do is walk across the border and simply do raids or set up sleeper cells in Iraq.
 
Goober
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post

Almost every war since the end of WW2 has belonged to whoever happened to be President at the time. Skipping congress and going to war without them seems to be pretty routine now. They could always refuse to give the President money for these adventures but I dont see that happening anytime soon for Obama or at least one or two of his successors.



ISIS is in Syria as well as Iraq. If they notice no one is attacking them in Syria all they have to do is walk across the border and simply do raids or set up sleeper cells in Iraq.

US is bombing them.
They let the Syrian know Aircraft are coming, and the Syrians play bail.
Many in ISIl - Al Qaeda were prisoners in Syria, Assad let them walk.
The issue is ground troops to hold ground and kill ISIL members. Arab countries have to do this.
The Iraqi army was destroyed by the former PM.
The ground work of rebellion with the Sunni in Anbar and other areas was set by the same PM.
It will take time to bring their training, equipping them up to par.
Then we will see a change.
Then the other issues are the Shia Militias, who do they report to.
The Kurds had the same problem. Their military reported to 2 different major party structures.
From what I understand they are now 1 org falling under the present Govt.
 
JLM
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB View Post



ISIS is in Syria as well as Iraq. If they notice no one is attacking them in Syria all they have to do is walk across the border and simply do raids or set up sleeper cells in Iraq.


Because Canada won't attack them in Syria, does that mean other countries are going to follow suit? I'm betting those bastards could set up in Antarctica or Greenland and someone would still be after them.
 
Goober
+1
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

Because Canada won't attack them in Syria, does that mean other countries are going to follow suit? I'm betting those bastards could set up in Antarctica or Greenland and someone would still be after them.

Easy to identify. The freezing brown guy in cotton robes.Shoot him.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#25
I can't speak for the efficacy of this mission - hey, maybe it's a good idea, who knows.

But at face value this is a very sad and disturbing day.
 
JLM
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

I can't speak for the efficacy of this mission - hey, maybe it's a good idea, who knows.

But at face value this is a very sad and disturbing day.


How so? When I watching the news the past few days I was kind of relieved to see there are lots of people with guts, sagacity and moxie to deal with these ruthless bastards!
 
eh1eh
+1
#27
 
mentalfloss
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by JLM View Post

How so? When I watching the news the past few days I was kind of relieved to see there are lots of people with guts, sagacity and moxie to deal with these ruthless bastards!

Aside from the skill of flying a plane, it doesn't take any guts to casually drop bombs on some buildings.

They're probably enjoying Arabic Timmies coffee while they let them go and that's just plain distracted driving.
 
JLM
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss View Post

Aside from the skill of flying a plane, it doesn't take any guts to casually drop bombs on some buildings.

They're probably enjoying Arabic Timmies coffee while they let them go and that's just plain distracted driving.


I don't know about you but my knowledge of fighting wars is VERY limited and hence I never try to estimate someone else's job. I am sure however during the course of fighting wars there are times when the unexpected arises. Could you handle such incidents? -
 
mentalfloss
#30
I'm sure they can handle it.

That's what they are trained for.

Dropping bombs is like playing a videogame for them.