The objections of the idolaters to the Prophet


Torch light
#31
The two replies above indicate two devils who evade the truth and insist on the falsehood.
 
taxslave
#32
Just because there are no pictures posted doesn't mean we don't know what you are doing with your brother's favorite goat when he is not home.
 
Torch light
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Just because there are no pictures posted doesn't mean we don't know what you are doing with your brother's favorite goat when he is not home.

I am quit of your lies, and you are guilty with your lies.
Last edited by Torch light; Jun 19th, 2018 at 03:59 PM..
 
Torch light
#34
Another objection of the idolaters to the Prophet and the Quran

Quran 38: 1-14, which mean:

[When the Prophet came to the tribe of Quraish and told them about his message, and invited them to worship God alone and forsake the worshipping of the idols, they denied and mocked him.

Therefore, God – be glorified – revealed this aya confirming the Prophet:]


1. (Şsad):

(or Truthful) [i.e. Mohammed is truthful.]

[I swear] (by the Quran with its admonitions!)


More explanation is in the link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/38.htm#a38_1
quran-ayat.com/pret/38.htm#a38_1

[youtube]6yU4K-JtR2E[/youtube]
 
MHz
+1
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by Torch light View Post

I am quit of your lies, and you are guilty with your lies.

The reason he said that is based on what happens when it is his turn to wears the goats head mask.

You have to be aware that this place is full of godless people so don't let them under your skin as they take that as a sign they won something when all the did was show what assholes they are deep down inside. You won't be converting anybody, god has a special place for godless people.
 
Torch light
#36
Quran 38: 2-4, which mean:
[Then God – be glorified – told His messenger about the arrogance of those associaters and their haughtiness and refusal to believe and submit to God, so He said:]
2. But [actually] the unbelievers are on arrogance and contradiction.

[Afterwards, God – be glorified – started to threaten and terrify them, and He said:]
3. And how many a generation before them We destroyed; when [the earthquake seized them] they cried [: Run away from the city], but [the angel, sent for their destruction, said:] “It is not a time for escaping”.

4. So they wonder that a warner has come to them out of themselves; so the unbelievers say: "This is a sorcerer telling lies [: for he claimed the prophethood.]"

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz View Post

The reason he said that is based on what happens when it is his turn to wears the goats head mask.

You have to be aware that this place is full of godless people so don't let them under your skin as they take that as a sign they won something when all the did was show what assholes they are deep down inside. You won't be converting anybody, god has a special place for godless people.

I know they are useless, but I speak to people in general.
 
MHz
#37
I mentioned the Quran would fit into the weekend Jesus spent at the village the woman at the well came from. (in another thread) That is based on Jesus was only a Prophet at that time. As holy as you take it to be the NT prophecies, and especially Revelations, is the authority on how the return goes down.
In that light the 7 letters to the 7churches cover all Gentiles and those 14 different relationships is how the sheep/goats are divided. False Christian make up the bulk of 'Christians' and every one of them will die when the 7 vials are poured out, it will follow this ratio,


Zec:13:8:
And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land,
saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.
Zec:13:9:
And I will bring the third part through the fire,
and will refine them as silver is refined,
and will try them as gold is tried:
they shall call on my name,
and I will hear them:
I will say,
It is my people:
and they shall say,
The LORD is my God.
 
Torch light
#38
[When Omar the son of Khattab converted, it was so troublesome to Quraish; therefore, they gathered to meet Abu Talib and ask the Prophet to leave them and what they worshipped, and they then would leave him and what he worshipped.

Abu Talib then sent for him, and the Prophet came and said: “I ask them for one word by means of which the Arab will submit to them, and the non-Arab give tribute.”

They said: “We may give you ten words, so what is such word?”

He said: “You should say: No god but God!”

So they went away, saying:]


5. "Has he made [all] the gods into One God? This indeed is a very astonishing thing."

6. And the chiefs of them departed [and said to each other:] "Go and be constant to [worship] your gods; [for] this is a thing binding [on us.]"

7. [COLOR="blue"]“We have not heard of anything like this in any previous creed i ; this surely is [something] invented [by Mohammed.]”

8. "So has the 'admonition' [: the Quran] been revealed to him exclusive of us?"

[So God – be glorified – said:]
But actually they are in doubt of My admonition.
In fact they have not yet suffered My chastisement.


9. Or have they the treasures of the grace of your Lord, the All-Mighty, the All-Offering ?

10. Or have they the ownership of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them?
Hence let them come up [to Us] by the means [leading up to heaven]


11. Whatever hosts [of the idols and of Satan] of those rallied [against you, Mohammed] will [certainly] be defeated there [before you, as were defeated those ancients who rallied against their messengers.]

12. Before them the people of Noah denied, and [the tribe of] Aad and Pharaoh with his stakes [with which he tortured the believers.]

13. And [the tribe of] Thamood, Lot's people and the people of the [miraculous] Tree [of Midian]; those were the allies [against their prophets.]

14. Not one [of them] but denied the messengers, so My punishment came justly and inevitably [on them.]

.................................................. .........

i It means: [The idolaters said:] "We did not hear about the people of the other religions that they rejected the statues, but only the new religion brought by Mohammed;
for Christians have the statue of Mary and the statue of Jesus which is the cross,
and Jews have the statues of the angels having wings which they call the cherubim, in addition to the two gold calf statues which they worshiped in the past; moreover they worshiped the stone statues which they called the Baalim and Ashtaroth.
So likewise we [idolaters] also take statues of the angels to sanctify them in order that the angels will intercede for us before God."

More explanation is in the link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/38.htm#a38_1
quran-ayat.com/pret/38.htm#a38_1
Last edited by Torch light; Jul 26th, 2018 at 06:17 PM..
 
MHz
#39
The RCC references Mary, the mother of Jesus when Mary of Bethany is the Beloved Disciple of John the Baptist. She is the author of the Gospel of John and the Revelations of John so she alone is the most important person in the NT.

Since everybody misses that point there are no true believers more or less.
 
Torch light
#40
Explanation of the post #38 :

The idolaters objected to the Quran which denied their statues and idols .. they said:
We haven't heard anything similar to the teachings and claims of Mohammed about the rejection of the statues and idols ..
because we see Jews have the Cherubim which is a statue of winged angels, and they have also the statues of the gold calf (made by the Samaritan), and they have the two calf statues made for them by Jeroboam, in addition to worshiping the Baalim.

Moreover, we see Christians also erect statues of Jesus and his mother in addition to statues of some saints.

Therefore, only Mohammed invites to such innovation against the idols and statues"
 
MHz
#41
How is making the messenger (Mohammed) central to the 'book' not moving God away from being the most important part of the Muslim religion. It seems to be the same flaw the RCC has by paying more honor to the Pope than he deserves. That comes with severe consequences.

Jas:2:8-11:
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
Do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.

M't:22:37:
Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind.
M't:22:38:
This is the first and great commandment.


Re:2:3-5:
And hast borne,
and hast patience,
and for my name's sake hast laboured,
and hast not fainted.
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee,
because thou hast left thy first love.
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen,
and repent,
and do the first works;
or else I will come unto thee quickly,
and will remove thy candlestick out of his place,
except thou repent.
 
Torch light
#42
Mohammed is the messenger to whom the Quran was revealed .. so from Mohammed we knew the Quran .. therefore, acknowledging the messenger is essential to the belief about God.
It is like the other religions brought by Moses and Jesus.
So unless you believe in the messenger, how can you believe in God as God wants us to believe?
Will everyone be a messenger or a prophet? It can't be.
Anyhow, while we admit the apostlehood of Mohammed, we first of all admit that he is God's servant.

Another point, the purpose is to worship God alone, and to glorify Him alone .. while all others including the prophets and messengers are only the servants of God whom we should respect, but not glorify or worship.

Quran 4: 80, which means:
( Whoso obeys the messenger, is obeying God in fact [because the messenger works according to the command of God.]
But whoso turns away [from the messenger, God shall punish him.]
)

More explanation is in the link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/4.htm#a4_80
quran-ayat.com/pret/4.htm#a4_80
 
MHz
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Torch light View Post

Mohammed is the messenger to whom the Quran was revealed .. so from Mohammed we knew the Quran .. therefore, acknowledging the messenger is essential to the belief about God.
It is like the other religions brought by Moses and Jesus.
So unless you believe in the messenger, how can you believe in God as God wants us to believe?
Will everyone be a messenger or a prophet? It can't be.
Anyhow, while we admit the apostlehood of Mohammed, we first of all admit that he is God's servant.

That is a very weak argument and it is more strawman than actual teaching from God. John the Baptist is called the greatest man that lived yet the witness was completed by a Disciple of his rather than he did it in person. Does that fact altar the validity of the message. It is the author of the message and the message that is important. Identifying the messenger is important only as far as his reputation as far as honesty is concerned. I can show you many introductions to messages that follows the pattern that the author of the message and the message body is what should be the topic of discussion.


Jas:1:1:

James,
a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad,

greeting.


Joh:1:2-9:

The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him;

and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life;
and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness;

and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God,

whose name was John.
The same came for a witness,

to bear witness of the Light,

that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light,

but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light,

which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


John was making himself as unimportant to the message as possible. How much of your admiration for Mohammad is caused by him being a male figure? The Disciple that was tasked by John was a woman so to be a Christian you have to accept that testimony because it comes from a truthful person rather than from some man. Under that condition alone the whole RCC would be classified as a satanic church and her members would be awake in hell for the 1,000 years going through great tribulation rather than being alive and part of the Gentile Church. Muslims have Mohamed, Judaism has Moses and the Church has a variety of men over the last 2,000 years.


She was closer top Jesus than peter was and she will be the first one resurrected from the grave. That would also mean her words have more authority than any Prophet, including Mohamed. All the ones in the NT that were baptized the same way Jesus was just before His 40 day fast when through their own 40 day fast and that gave them certain 'gifts' such as healing by touch alone as a sign that God had sent them. That ended about 100AD, did Mohamed ever record that he went through such a fast?


2Jo:1:1:

The elder unto the elect lady and her children,
whom I love in the truth;

and not I only,
but also all they that have known the truth;
 
Torch light
#44
God is to be worshiped and glorified .. and obeyed.
The messenger is to be respected .. and obeyed: the obedience of the messenger is in fact the obedience to God Who sent him.
A similar words in the Gospel maybe: "Who receives me, in fact receives God That sent me."

Quran 48: 9, which means:
[God – be glorified - explained about the purpose of ‘sending’ [the Prophet], and He said:]

(That you may believe in God and His messenger,
and support [the messenger with words and action],
and reverence God,
and that you may celebrate His praises [always] early and late in the day.
)

More explanation is in the link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/48.htm#a48_9
quran-ayat.com/pret/48.htm#a48_9

Therefore, the supporting is for the messenger, while the glorification and veneration or reverence is for God alone.
Last edited by Torch light; Aug 2nd, 2018 at 03:56 PM..
 

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