"Proud Boys" Disrupt Mi'kmaw Memorial in Halifax


captain morgan
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

The law says exactly that. Read the rest of Post #39. It is up to the military to decide what the punishment will be if some of its members choose to ignore it. It could be censure; loss f pay; expulsion from the military; or in extreme cases, imprisonment.

Here's the law you are relying on for your argument... I highlighted the important bits:

No member of the Regular Force shall:
  1. take an active part in the affairs of a political organization or party ;
  2. make a political speech to electors , or announce himself or allow himself to be announced as a candidate, or prospective candidate, for election to the Parliament of Canada or a provincial legislature ; or
  3. except with the permission of the Chief of the Defence Staff, accept an office in a municipal corporation or other local government body or allow himself to be nominated for election to such office.


... So, with the above in mind, does holding and voicing an opinion magically count in the above regard?
 
Cannuck
#62
Do the Proud Boys constitute a political organization
 
captain morgan
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

Do the Proud Boys constitute a political organization

Check the corporate registries and find out
 
Cannuck
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Check the corporate registries and find out

You have to register yourself to be a political organization? Who knew.
 
EagleSmack
#65
Mick Mack
 
captain morgan
+1
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck View Post

You have to register yourself to be a political organization? Who knew.


Apparently not you
 
Cannuck
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Apparently not you

Apparently.
 
EagleSmack
#68
Paddy Whack
 
captain morgan
#69
Give a dog a bone
 
Curious Cdn
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Meaning as long as they tow the party line they are OK. Independent thought in the military is frowned on.
Would these men be censored for attending a gay pride parade or is that now an accepted political statement?

They're being fired by their employer for casting the Forces in a bad light. This could happen in any job, anywhere and they likely have some means to contest it, as well.
 
taxslave
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

They're being fired by their employer for casting the Forces in a bad light. This could happen in any job, anywhere and they likely have some means to contest it, as well.

Look for a human rights kangaroo court to give them millions of tax dollars for the militaty's actions.
 
Curious Cdn
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Look for a human rights kangaroo court to give them millions of tax dollars for the militaty's actions.

it's the ultimate team activity. They won't fit in.
 
spaminator
#73
Fare thee well, Edward Cornwallis, you had it coming | Bonokoski | Canada | News
 
taxslave
+2
#75
I see this as a lame attempt by SJWs to rewrite hitory.
 
Curious Cdn
+1
#76
There are all sorts of statues of Victoria around the country. I suppose that they'll get the axe, due to the nastiness of Victorian era Colonialism.

John A. Macdonald is all over the place, too. He was a serious alcoholic, a bit of a con-man and look what he did to the Indigenous peoples? Eh?... Eh?

Got to go!

And all of those mournful soldiers on cenotaphs across the country? They glorify war and, they also happen to be all white, males. They should go because they are too caucasiocentric, not inclusive enough and they don't reflect the diversity of Canada.

Also, those historic plaques all over the country are just in English and French when they should be in Farsi, Hindi, Mandarin, Punjabi, Arabic and Tagalog as well. How DARE Canada insult those people by leaving them out!
Last edited by Curious Cdn; Jul 16th, 2017 at 01:14 PM..
 
Danbones
#77
If you can't remember where you have been how the hell do you know where you are going?

It's like when the catholic church rewrote everyone's religious sites when they took over.
A couple generations later and the past was almost completely buried under a pile of poo.

Locally there is a cross where Deganawida's birth site was and now almost NO ONE knows why that cross is on top of that spot.
(Deganawidah was the founder of the 6 nations confederacy, pre runner to the US constitution, and some say a personality similar to Jesus christ)

The military will likely get away with the PR/political maneuver.
Last edited by Danbones; Jul 16th, 2017 at 01:29 PM..
 
spaminator
#78
No charges in Halifax 'Proud Boys' incident, servicemen returned to duties: Navy
THE CANADIAN PRESS
First posted: Thursday, August 31, 2017 11:27 AM EDT | Updated: Thursday, August 31, 2017 03:44 PM EDT
HALIFAX — No criminal charges will be laid against five so-called “Proud Boys” who disrupted a Mi’kmaq ceremony in downtown Halifax on Canada Day, the Royal Canadian Navy says.
Rear-Admiral John Newton said Thursday that an investigation has wrapped up with no further actions taken against the servicemen, although they remain on an unspecified term of probation and must adhere to unspecified conditions.
“If they fail ... they are gone. This is not lightweight punishment,” he told reporters.
The servicemen had been relieved of their duties and re-assigned to other jobs, pending the results of the military police investigation into the incident at a statue of Halifax’s controversial founder, Edward Cornwallis.
Newton said one of the servicemen has since left the Forces, but the others are being returned to their operational units and regular duties. He said the serviceman who left the forces had initiated the process well before the July 1 incident.
He said the members displayed “behaviour inconsistent with the values and ethics expected of those in uniform,” and the military has taken appropriate measures to address “individual shortcomings.”
Specifically, Newton said they had contravened a section of the Queens Regulations and Orders “where your personal actions, on duty or off duty, could be perceived or are in contravention with the policies of the Canadian Armed Forces.”
The navy has ensured the servicemen have a clear understanding of the expected ethical behaviours and standards of conduct within the Armed Forces, he said.
Newton told reporters the remaining servicemen — three navy and one army — will have a permanent mark on their record.
“They have to actually pass this probationary period to get back onto their full career progress,” he said.
“I’m not going to spell out the individual type of probationary measures because there is privacy and confidentiality of the members involved and they have that right as individual citizens,” said Newton.
The investigation began in early July, a few days after a group of “Proud Boys” confronted Indigenous people gathered in a park for what they described as a sacred rite. The incident was caught on videotape and spread on social media.
Rebecca Thomas, who was at the Canada Day ceremony, said she was disappointed at the “lack of consequences” for the service members who were involved in the incident.
“I would have liked to have seen a restorative justice process for these individuals where they have to face the community that they wronged,” said Thomas, who is Mi’kmaq and Halifax’s poet laureate.
“I worry about something that could have been a teachable moment is now just turning into a straight form of punishment within a very familiar context. It doesn’t seem that things were learned.”
Thomas wonders whether the punishment would have been as lenient had the service members interrupted a Roman Catholic mass or a Remembrance Day ceremony.
“It could be an indication on how the Armed Forces see Indigenous ceremony,” she said. “I would like to hope that these individuals have changed their feelings on Indigenous peoples but I don’t have any proof to that effect.”
The Armed Forces previously apologized for the servicemen’s actions. Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and Gen. Jonathan Vance, chief of the defence staff, both condemned the actions of the men.
The “Proud Boys” — known for matching black polo shirts often worn by members — was founded in the U.S. by Gavin McInnes, a Canadian who helped establish Vice Media and is now an outspoken, right-wing political pundit.
The “Proud Boys” call themselves “Western chauvinists.”
A Facebook post from the Proud Boys Canadian Chapters Thursday struck a triumphal and defiant tone in reaction to the navy’s actions.
“We win, our brothers in the Halifax 5 are returning to active military duty with no charges, let the SJW (Social Justice Warriors) tears pour,” it said. “Proud of our boys.”
Newton said he has met with the servicemen twice, and they are remorseful and dealing with a world changed by social media.
He said reporters don’t know the servicemen’s version of the story, but “it means nothing” anyway, because what matters is what the public perceives.
Newton said he has dealt with many navy mishaps caused by personal mistakes, and although the servicemen embarrassed the military, the matter has been dealt with through the governing policies and procedures.
“You cannot just turn around and fire everybody. They have rights,” he said.
“You can’t pursue it just because you want to. You just can’t. What we are doing doesn’t solve all of the issues. But it is as good an outcome as I can strive for.”
Newton said he has also met with Chief Grizzly Mamma, who was part of the Indigenous ceremony interrupted by the “Proud Boys.”
Thursday was Newton’s last full day as commander of Canada’s East Coast navy, as he begins work with Veterans Affairs Canada in Charlottetown. Rear Admiral Craig Baines will assume command in Halifax in a ceremony Friday morning.
In a statement Thursday, the military said the Halifax incident has provided a leadership opportunity for military brass — and the best way to confront and defeat intolerance is through education and training.
“Any action by a Canadian Armed Forces member (in uniform or not) that demonstrates intolerance or shows disrespect towards the people and cultures we value in Canada is completely unacceptable,” it said.
“The Canadian Armed Forces celebrates the contributions that First Nations, Inuit and Metis people have made to Canada and its military.
“The chain of command has taken appropriate measures to address individual shortcomings, intended to drive home a clear understanding of the ethical behaviour and standard of conduct that we demand all our members uphold and maintain.”
It said the Armed Forces view diversity as a source of strength and flexibility.
http://facebook.com/ProudBoysCanada/...61962384187007
No charges in Halifax 'Proud Boys' incident, servicemen returned to duties: Navy
 
Jinentonix
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Here is what most people seem to be overlooking. The military is supposed to be politically neutral.

So what did these guys do that was so political. They approached a group of protesters and asked, "What's up?", politely engaged them and that's your idea of going beyond neutrality? They caused no trouble, did nothing wrong and yet you seem to have a problem with their lack "political neutrality"? Get a grip.
 
EagleSmack
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

So what did these guys do that was so political. They approached a group of protesters and asked, "What's up?", politely engaged them and that's your idea of going beyond neutrality? They caused no trouble, did nothing wrong and yet you seem to have a problem with their lack "political neutrality"? Get a grip.

And they were greeted with hate.
 
Jinentonix
+1
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

No. But that is why we have a secret ballot. May I assume from your post that you approve of members of the military taking sides in political issues?



Yes - don't make any public statements or participate in unofficial public demonstrations.

Interesting. Did you know that ALL federal govt employees are bound by pretty much the same agreement? And yet you cheered the "unmuzzling" of scientists in federal govt employ. Why is that? Why is it a binding agreement for everyone working for the Fed except the scientists?
 
SteveM
+1
#82
Proud Boys is a far right men's organization founded in 2016 by Vice Media co-founder and former commentator Gavin McInnes who is also a contributor to the Rebel Media. McInnes describes the organization as a "pro-Western fraternal organization" for men who "refuse to apologize for creating the modern world." The group has been referred to as alt-right.

The dark shirts they wore that day with the yellow piping is their unofficial uniform.

Their presence at the Mi’kmaq ceremony, even if they didn't say anything, would be seen as disrespectful.
 
justlooking
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveM View Post

Their presence at the Mi’kmaq ceremony, even if they didn't say anything, would be seen as disrespectful.

Has anyone considered the Mikmaq ceremony as disrespectful to begin with ?
 
Cliffy
+1
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by justlooking View Post

Has anyone considered the Mikmaq ceremony as disrespectful to begin with ?

Corn-hole-is ordered a bounty on their scalps and tried to wipe them off the face of the Earth. They were not there to tear down his statue. There were there to do ceremony.
 
Bar Sinister
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

Interesting. Did you know that ALL federal govt employees are bound by pretty much the same agreement? And yet you cheered the "unmuzzling" of scientists in federal govt employ. Why is that? Why is it a binding agreement for everyone working for the Fed except the scientists?

You are confusing the issues. What members of the scientific community want to be able to do is what they were originally hired to do and that is release information to the public concerning various issues that might threaten the public good; not keep it hidden because of the government's political agenda. Why do you think the government has scientists who job it is to monitor the environment in the first place?

If you want members of the military to be able to freely interfere in public affairs I suggest that you take a look at how well that has worked in places like Latin America. BTW the neutrality of the military is pretty much a given in every democracy worldwide.
 
spaminator
#86
Nova Scotia town covers Cornwallis Bridge sign as petitions circle to rename river
Brett Bundale, THE CANADIAN PRESS
First posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 03:12 PM EDT | Updated: Monday, September 11, 2017 05:08 PM EDT
KENTVILLE, N.S. — A debate sweeping the country over the naming of monuments and places after contentious historical figures has found a new flashpoint in rural Nova Scotia.
A Scottish immigrant has launched a bid to change the name of the Cornwallis River, a roughly 50-kilometre tidal waterway that meanders through the Annapolis Valley, as well as the name of a bridge that crosses the river.
Isobel Hamilton of Centreville, N.S., said Edward Cornwallis, the former governor of Nova Scotia who issued a bounty on Mi’kmaq scalps, also played a brutal role at the Battle of Culloden, violently suppressing the Jacobite rebellion in her Scottish homeland.
But she said her motivation isn’t about scrubbing Cornwallis’s name from history, but rather recognizing the province’s Indigenous roots.
“Remembering history is about remembering all of history and there is not a lot to remember the Mi’kmaq history by,” Hamilton, who moved to Nova Scotia about four years ago, said Monday.
“You can’t undo the things that have happened in the past but it would be nice if the Indigenous presence here before the arrival of the Europeans was reflected in place names and landmarks.”
Upon learning of Hamilton’s petitions, the Town of Kentville covered up the name Cornwallis on a poster of a new bridge set to be built next year, noting that it never intended to name the crossing after Cornwallis.
Instead, chief administrative officer Mark Phillips said Cornwallis Bridge was an internal working name and that council passed a motion two years ago to name the new span after Kentville’s longest-serving mayor, Wendell Phinney.
A rendition of the long-awaited new bridge was printed on a large sign to show locals the design, he said, and the town regrets the confusion caused by the oversight of leaving the working name in place.
Still, calls remain for the province to rename the Cornwallis River, with Hamilton’s petition suggesting the original Mi’kmaq name of Jijuktu’kwejk should be restored.
In 2015, Premier Stephen McNeil had a sign for the Cornwallis River removed at the request of a Mi’kmaq elder, but no further steps were taken to rename the waterway.
The controversy over naming places and statues in honour of historical figures with checkered pasts reached a boiling point in Charlottesville, Va., last month when a violent white nationalist protest over the proposed removal of a Confederate army general’s statue left one person dead and dozens injured.
In Ontario, teachers are pushing to have the name of Canada’s first prime minister wiped from a handful of schools across the province. The Elementary Teachers’ Federation of Ontario said in August that it wants Sir John A. Macdonald’s name pulled because of what it calls his role as the “architect of genocide against Indigenous Peoples.”
Halifax has been the focal point of the polarizing debate over Cornwallis in Nova Scotia, with city council voting last spring for a staff report on the commemoration of the city’s founder on municipal assets, including Cornwallis Park and Cornwallis Street.
A city spokesman said Monday the report, which will include the terms of reference and a recommended composition for an expert panel that will review the issue, is expected to go before council in the coming weeks.
“The goal is to identify a path forward that better recognizes the history of the Mi’kmaq, and other Indigenous peoples, as part of our shared history in Nova Scotia,” Brendan Elliott said in an email.
Although he said it’s too early to say what the panel may propose to council, Elliott said the removal of the statue is among the possible options that could be put forward.
A bronze statue of Cornwallis, who founded Halifax in 1749 during his term as governor, stands in a downtown park.
Mi’kmaq groups have long argued that the statue should be removed, and have called his actions a form of genocide against Indigenous peoples. Members of the Nova Scotia Assembly of Mi’kmaq Chiefs agree that the statue should come down.
A number of rallies have been held at the park, most recently in solidarity with the violence in Charlottesville, where speakers drew comparisons between the movement to remove the colonial governor’s likeness and efforts to take down statues in the southern United States commemorating Confederacy leaders.
Meanwhile, the largely black Cornwallis Street Baptist Church said earlier this year it would change its name, and an office and retail complex on Halifax’s busy Spring Garden Road has quietly changed its name to the Bond Building from Cornwallis House.
http://change.org/p/nova-scotia-prov...l-mi-kmaq-name
Nova Scotia town covers Cornwallis Bridge sign as petitions circle to rename riv
 
Jinentonix
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

You are confusing the issues. What members of the scientific community want to be able to do is what they were originally hired to do and that is release information to the public concerning various issues that might threaten the public good; not keep it hidden because of the government's political agenda. Why do you think the government has scientists who job it is to monitor the environment in the first place?

No, they are govt employees just like the rest of the govt employees are. They are not permitted to go off script and publicly discuss environmental issues that are tied to govt policies. As much as you may wish to believe otherwise, they sign the same damn agreement as every other govt employee. Now, there is usually someone in each govt department who has clearance to discuss govt policy in regards to their department but anyone else, not so much.

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

If you want members of the military to be able to freely interfere in public affairs I suggest that you take a look at how well that has worked in places like Latin America. BTW the neutrality of the military is pretty much a given in every democracy worldwide.

Again, what interference? They showed up, asked what was going on, politely listened and then headed off.
I"m still not sure what has your panties all in a twist about this. I guess our guys and gals in the military should just walk along with their eyes to the ground when they're off-duty and out in public. Wouldn't want them seeing something and offending your delicate sensibilities by asking a question about it.
Yep, only in Canada is it considered "interference" and "non-neutral" to ask a civilian a simple question if you're in the military. Next thing we know, you'll be complaining that they get to vote.
 
Bar Sinister
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

No, they are govt employees just like the rest of the govt employees are. They are not permitted to go off script and publicly discuss environmental issues that are tied to govt policies. As much as you may wish to believe otherwise, they sign the same damn agreement as every other govt employee. Now, there is usually someone in each govt department who has clearance to discuss govt policy in regards to their department but anyone else, not so much.

Again, what interference? They showed up, asked what was going on, politely listened and then headed off.
I"m still not sure what has your panties all in a twist about this. I guess our guys and gals in the military should just walk along with their eyes to the ground when they're off-duty and out in public. Wouldn't want them seeing something and offending your delicate sensibilities by asking a question about it.
Yep, only in Canada is it considered "interference" and "non-neutral" to ask a civilian a simple question if you're in the military. Next thing we know, you'll be complaining that they get to vote.

I am afraid you do not seem to understand the issue. Under Harper government scientists whose job it was to inform the public were not allowed to publish their findings. Perhaps this will explain the issue.

Harper’s attack on science: No science, no evidence, no truth, no democracy


Harper's attack on science: No science, no evidence, no truth, no democracy - Academic Matters

And please don't try to obfuscate the military issue. When members of the military show up at a public gathering wearing identical outfits connected with a racist organization they are not being politically neutral. Even you should be able to figure that out.