An Inconvenient Truth


Tecumsehsbones
+1
#1
The one thing I never hear much about as the oil-swallowers and the oil-spitters rant and rave at each other is the cognitive dissonance-inducing fact that oil companies are far, far the largest investors in green energy reasearch and application.

So, yeah. Oil-swallowers, your beloved corporate gods actually are your worst enemies. So be sure to burst a blood vessel screaming you terror and hate at a 16-year-old Swedish girl.

And oil-spitters, your greatest hope for salvation from EEE-vil oil is. . . the oil companies. So curl up in a corner and suck your thumbs.
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
Serryah
+1
#2
So inventors in Australia devised an engine that runs on water and ethanol. No gas.


My first thought upon seeing that was - how long until no one buys into it because it's shut out from being further developed?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+5
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

So inventors in Australia devised an engine that runs on water and ethanol. No gas.
My first thought upon seeing that was - how long until no one buys into it because it's shut out from being further developed?

The usual reason for that is because the idea can't be developed cost effectively with current technology.

And what's new about an ethanol-burning engine? Germany used 'em in WWII because the Brits had a stranglehold on the petroleum supplies. Ain't tough to make an IC engine burn ethanol.
 
Curious Cdn
+1 / -1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The one thing I never hear much about as the oil-swallowers and the oil-spitters rant and rave at each other is the cognitive dissonance-inducing fact that oil companies are far, far the largest investors in green energy reasearch and application.
So, yeah. Oil-swallowers, your beloved corporate gods actually are your worst enemies. So be sure to burst a blood vessel screaming you terror and hate at a 16-year-old Swedish girl.
And oil-spitters, your greatest hope for salvation from EEE-vil oil is. . . the oil companies. So curl up in a corner and suck your thumbs.

They have to diversify or die. Those are the well run oil companies.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+2
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Curious Cdn View Post

They have to diversify or die. Those are the well run oil companies.

They probably get as big a laugh at the religious zealots as the College of Cardinals does.
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

So inventors in Australia devised an engine that runs on water and ethanol. No gas.
My first thought upon seeing that was - how long until no one buys into it because it's shut out from being further developed?

Old technology Henry Ford set up his first car engines to run on ethanol, Gasoline provided a more stable platform to run on.
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The one thing I never hear much about as the oil-swallowers and the oil-spitters rant and rave at each other is the cognitive dissonance-inducing fact that oil companies are far, far the largest investors in green energy reasearch and application.
So, yeah. Oil-swallowers, your beloved corporate gods actually are your worst enemies. So be sure to burst a blood vessel screaming you terror and hate at a 16-year-old Swedish girl.
And oil-spitters, your greatest hope for salvation from EEE-vil oil is. . . the oil companies. So curl up in a corner and suck your thumbs.

When renewing permits the energy companies have to show a percentage of either donated or investment into Green programs, so they are investing enough to trigger Gov. grants and offsets.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Twin_Moose View Post

When renewing permits the energy companies have to show a percentage of either donated or investment into Green programs, so they are investing enough to trigger Gov. grants and offsets.

You mean. . . oil companies are subsidized?

Oh, dear. Yer probably gonna get kicked out of the He-Man Oil-Swallowers Denial Club for that!
 
taxslave
+1
#9
Most likely hydrogen will be the power of the future. Electric has its place in cities for commuters but that is about it.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Most likely hydrogen will be the power of the future. Electric has its place in cities for commuters but that is about it.

Near future, maybe, probably in the form of fuel cells. Beyond that? Probably something that's an abstraction on a mathematician's blackboard right now.
 
taxslave
+1
#11
So it is fuel cells. GM is building military platform powered by fuel cells now.
 
MHz
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Most likely hydrogen will be the power of the future. Electric has its place in cities for commuters but that is about it.

Ditch NG in favor of a product that isn't even available in bulk and never will be? Not gonna happen in a million years.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

So it is fuel cells. GM is building military platform powered by fuel cells now.

Honda's offering a fuel-cell passenger car (the Honda Clarity). Limited distribution because of the limits on the supply chain for fuel cells. But I see no reason why they can't just use the propane-tank exchange model in the future: you pull into a station, swap out your exhausted fuel cells for charged ones, and you're on your way.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

So it is fuel cells. GM is building military platform powered by fuel cells now.

Honda's offering a fuel-cell passenger car (the Honda Clarity). Limited distribution because of the limits on the supply chain for fuel cells. But I see no reason why they can't just use the propane-tank exchange model in the future: you pull into a station, swap out your exhausted fuel cells for charged ones, and you're on your way.
 
Twin_Moose
+2
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

You mean. . . oil companies are subsidized?
Oh, dear. Yer probably gonna get kicked out of the He-Man Oil-Swallowers Denial Club for that!

In Green energy yes they are no different than anyone else.
 
spilledthebeer
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The one thing I never hear much about as the oil-swallowers and the oil-spitters rant and rave at each other is the cognitive dissonance-inducing fact that oil companies are far, far the largest investors in green energy reasearch and application.

So, yeah. Oil-swallowers, your beloved corporate gods actually are your worst enemies. So be sure to burst a blood vessel screaming you terror and hate at a 16-year-old Swedish girl.

And oil-spitters, your greatest hope for salvation from EEE-vil oil is. . . the oil companies. So curl up in a corner and suck your thumbs.






OH DEAR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Before we all go MOULDY GREEN with excitement............................


maybe we ought to count up the array of grants and tax breaks..........................


that LIE-berals are offering up to those vaunted oil companies................................


to get them interested in LIE-beral electric TOY cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THAT is the dirty little secret of the mouldy green "innovation"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ITS ALL LIE-beral BRIBERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!


The state of Nevada GAVE TESLA $4.5 BILLION DOLLARS IN GRANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GRANTS I SAY......................................... meaning NO PAY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


With other states and p[rovinces throwing in additional gravy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And HOW FAR IS TESLA from making a PENNY OF PROFIT at this time?????????????????


OHHHHHHH- that is another fact LIE-berals DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Tesla opened its doors in 2003 - with Musk getting involved in 2004..................................


and the company has YET TO MAKE A PENNY OF PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But TESLA EXCELS AT SUCKING UP GRANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And NO - DO NOT JUMP IN and start whining about grants to General Motors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am well aware that In mid 2019 - Our idiot Boy CANCELED and forgave $2.8 billion dollars..............................


in loans to General Motors and Chrsyler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


And THERE IS THE POINT..............................


GM and the rest of the gas powered gang would continue to build cars..........................


even without the grants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But without grants there is good reason to assume Tesla would disappear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


GM and the other gas gang ALL HAVE a substantial gang of RETIRED WORKERS to support...............................


TESLA HAS NO SUCH BURDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And yet there is NO REASONABLE HOPE that Tesla will make a profit next year.........................


MUCH LESS MAKE A PROFIT TWO YEARS RUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


AND OH YES..........................TESLA DOES SOMETIMES HAVE A PROFITABLE QUARTER.......................


making $100 million this season..................................


and then LOSING a BILLION the next season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If LIE-berals started demanding value for OUR MONEY......................................


meaning get grants and produce a HEALTHY COMPANY WITH LOTS OF SPIN OFF JOBS.........................


all producing taxable income for LIE-berals...........................


TESLA COULD NOT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOT NOW and NOT EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOT with any of their existing product line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals resent giving tax breaks to gas gang auto producers...........................


BUT LIE-berals LOVE all the jobs gas cars produce.................................


and the massive SALES AND INCOME TAXES that come with such jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Which is why the grants and breaks are handed out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Wynne-bag Ontari-owe LIE-berals got MAULED by voters.....................................


because there were WAY TO MANY MOULDY GREEN GRANTS..............................


AND NOT NEARLY ENOUGH TAX GRAVY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
 
Tecumsehsbones
#17
Thank you for providing a case study of the oblivious oil swallower.
 
AnnaEmber
#18
I'd prefer water as fuel, more precisely, steam as it is theoretically an unlimited source of power, but people get twitchy about nuclear stuff.
 
Walter
+3 / -1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaEmber View Post

I'd prefer water as fuel, more precisely, steam as it is theoretically an unlimited source of power, but people get twitchy about nuclear stuff.

Petroleum is unlimited, too.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaEmber View Post

I'd prefer water as fuel, more precisely, steam as it is theoretically an unlimited source of power, but people get twitchy about nuclear stuff.

I love nuclear, if the right people are in charge.
 
Curious Cdn
-1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

I love nuclear, if the right people are in charge.

http://youtu.be/zZct-itCwPE

http://youtu.be/_Rsk1quUps0
 
taxslave
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

I love nuclear, if the right people are in charge.

That is why we are nuke free in BC. Except of course when your subs are playing hide and seek in front of my house. We simply don't trust government employees to do their job properly.
 
Girth
+2 / -1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The usual reason for that is because the idea can't be developed cost effectively with current technology.
And what's new about an ethanol-burning engine? Germany used 'em in WWII because the Brits had a stranglehold on the petroleum supplies. Ain't tough to make an IC engine burn ethanol.

I must admit, I am impressed. I ride you sometimes, but you certainly have the intelligence, and wit. This forum is better with you involved. Sorry for giving you a hard time.
 
spilledthebeer
+2
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Walter View Post

Petroleum is unlimited, too.


TRUE DAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We have the ability TO MAKE MORE FOSSIL FUEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Though Ember might be right in looking towards water as a superior fuel...................................


meaning Hydrogen extracted from water for use as fuel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Her wording of "water for fuel" is a bit unclear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
spilledthebeer
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

So inventors in Australia devised an engine that runs on water and ethanol. No gas.


My first thought upon seeing that was - how long until no one buys into it because it's shut out from being further developed?




Oh Serryah that is....................................


Horse sh+t of the most extreme sort!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You could not keep such a thing secret in any democratic country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


What one inventor could create......................................


can be replicated by another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh sure - the first inventor COULD PATENT his creation............................


but that WOULD LET LOOSE THE SECRET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And govts would be lining up to tell the inventor that the new invention ..................................


MUST BE SHARED WITH MANKIND.....................................


FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!


The inventor would be well paid - but would NOT be allowed full control over the use of such an invention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



The idea that such an invention could be hidden from the democratic world...............................


is the sort of conspiracy theory that pimple faced and credulous adolescents................................


who are angry at Mommy and Daddy............................................


would accept and believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Jinentonix
+4
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The one thing I never hear much about as the oil-swallowers and the oil-spitters rant and rave at each other is the cognitive dissonance-inducing fact that oil companies are far, far the largest investors in green energy reasearch and application.

So, yeah. Oil-swallowers, your beloved corporate gods actually are your worst enemies. So be sure to burst a blood vessel screaming you terror and hate at a 16-year-old Swedish girl.

And oil-spitters, your greatest hope for salvation from EEE-vil oil is. . . the oil companies. So curl up in a corner and suck your thumbs.

Actually some years ago Bill Clinton spoke with the American oil industry. What he said was actually pretty smart and more than just a little capitalistic. He suggested that if the oil companies invested even a fraction of their profits into R&D for alternative power sources, they could corner the global energy market.
Don't think for one minute that they're going to be doing away with oil anytime soon though. That will only happen when the cost to extract and refine it becomes more than the product is actually worth.



Your inconvenient truth is also something that both Petros and I have each brought up in here at least once before. However, there's also the difference between oil companies, which let's face it, are purely profit driven, and some 16 yr old being used to try and convince the world we can power modern economies solely on the vagaries of weather. Or that some 16 yr old Swedish girl's vacation of a lifetime would have been virtually impossible without oil.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinentonix View Post

Actually some years ago Bill Clinton spoke with the American oil industry. What he said was actually pretty smart and more than just a little capitalistic. He suggested that if the oil companies invested even a fraction of their profits into R&D for alternative power sources, they could corner the global energy market.
Don't think for one minute that they're going to be doing away with oil anytime soon though. That will only happen when the cost to extract and refine it becomes more than the product is actually worth.
Your inconvenient truth is also something that both Petros and I have each brought up in here at least once before. However, there's also the difference between oil companies, which let's face it, are purely profit driven, and some 16 yr old being used to try and convince the world we can power modern economies solely on the vagaries of weather. Or that some 16 yr old Swedish girl's vacation of a lifetime would have been virtually impossible without oil.

Your first paragraph was so sane.

Good to see you slip back into the gibbering terror that rules your life in the last one. I was worried there for a second.
 
captain morgan
+3
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The one thing I never hear much about as the oil-swallowers and the oil-spitters rant and rave at each other is the cognitive dissonance-inducing fact that oil companies are far, far the largest investors in green energy reasearch and application.

So, yeah. Oil-swallowers, your beloved corporate gods actually are your worst enemies. So be sure to burst a blood vessel screaming you terror and hate at a 16-year-old Swedish girl.

And oil-spitters, your greatest hope for salvation from EEE-vil oil is. . . the oil companies. So curl up in a corner and suck your thumbs.


I don't know why you're even talking about this 'cause I have it on good authority, sanctioned by the UN even, that we're on the edge of a mass extinction.... A 16 year old Swedish girl with Aspergers said so


Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

The usual reason for that is because the idea can't be developed cost effectively with current technology.

And what's new about an ethanol-burning engine? Germany used 'em in WWII because the Brits had a stranglehold on the petroleum supplies. Ain't tough to make an IC engine burn ethanol.


The cost to produce ethanol on a large enough scale to generate 1/100th of the current needs would have it's own significant hurdles, economics among them.


That said, it is presently an additive to gasoline


Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Honda's offering a fuel-cell passenger car (the Honda Clarity). Limited distribution because of the limits on the supply chain for fuel cells. But I see no reason why they can't just use the propane-tank exchange model in the future: you pull into a station, swap out your exhausted fuel cells for charged ones, and you're on your way.


Only a function of time before electricity displaces hydrocarbons, but there is a very long and expensive road ahead before it is mainstream.


The tech obstacle aside (storage), the upgrading of the infrastructure in terms of distribution and capacity will take decades and billions, if not trillions to roll-out in full
 
taxslave
+2
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

So inventors in Australia devised an engine that runs on water and ethanol. No gas.
My first thought upon seeing that was - how long until no one buys into it because it's shut out from being further developed?

Are you aware of where ethanol comes from?
 
taxslave
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Girth View Post

I must admit, I am impressed. I ride you sometimes, but you certainly have the intelligence, and wit. This forum is better with you involved. Sorry for giving you a hard time.

Don't sweat it. He will get even with you. ANd if you are not careful he will be one up on you.
 
Walter
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan View Post

Only a function of time before electricity displaces hydrocarbons, but there is a very long and expensive road ahead before it is mainstream.

Right now 70% of the world’s electricity is produced by hydrocarbons.
 

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