Yeah, let's rebuild the Avro Arrow


Locutus
#1
Good one Lou.


via Fark:


Canadian National Defense guy: "Hey, I know...let's cancel the contract for American F-35s, dust off those plans of the Avro Arrow from the 1950s and build those instead. That'll be MUCH cheaper"


OTTAWA—A consortium of Canadian manufacturers sought to go back in time to help move Canada’s air force into the future.
Documents obtained by Global News indicate the storied CF-105 Avro Arrow was put forward as an alternative to the purchase of F-35 stealth fighter jets.

And among the project’s champions is one of Canada’s top soldiers, retired Maj.Gen. Lewis MacKenzie.

The Arrow was an advanced, all-weather supersonic interceptor jet developed in the 1950s but the project was scrapped before a single plane could be built.

But MacKenzie told the Global TV show “The West Block” that the Arrow’s basic design and platform still exceed any current fighter jet and it’s perfect for Canada’s needs.


more cool story bro stuff:


New Avro Arrow design pitched to feds as alternative for F-35s: report - thestar.com
 
MapleDog
Free Thinker
#2
Good idea,finally something 100% canadian in the air.
 
eh1eh
#3
Wow. That is a cool story bro.
It can fly higher and faster because it was designed to intercept bombers coming over the pole from Russia. If we are going to have a new plane it should be able to do more stuff cuz there just ain't no bombers coming.
 
WLDB
No Party Affiliation
#4
Werent the plans destroyed after the program was cancelled?

I'd say cancelling this program was Diefenbaker's biggest mistake. It would have been nice to have our own home designed and built fighters. The idea of buying foreign ones seems so strange to me. I realize many nations do it but it still seems odd. Not only did we lose the Arro but we lost them men that designed it to the US after it was cancelled. Unfortunate.
 
Walter
+1 / -1
#5
While we're at it let's get out the saddle shoes, hula hoops and make the blacks ride in the back of the bus.
 
Nuggler
#6
Are there any around to "dust off"??

Didn't they destroy them all, plus the blueprints, etc.?

Just what I heard.
 
damngrumpy
No Party Affiliation
+1
#7
This jet was more advanced than any other in its time in fact it could do things then
that still can't be done by others. I doubt if Harper will relent though, this plane was
dashed because of a miserable little man Dief the Chief. He scrapped it because it
was a pet project of CD Howe the object of all his bitterness.
There were prototypes of the jet built and it did extremely well. Normally in this case
I would agree with Walter about bringing back the past. However consider this. We
have an advanced plane that was decades ahead of its time. If we added some of
latest updates we would still have a plane far ahead of its time.
Who knows, we might save it in fuel costs alone. In the last day or so there was a
TV show on this, the idea of fuel is interesting. Flying the F 35 this aircraft would fly
from Vancouver to Winnipeg and need fuel. Secondly the Arrow would fly Vancouver
to at least Toronto. Just like a car, fuel economy today is important ( tongue in cheek)
and there in itself it could bring the price down. I would bet if we took the chance the
money for the F35 would benefit us even if it presented problems. Remember we are
still not sure of the price but its in the 30 billion range. If we own the plans and built it
Canadian we wouldn't need to pay out some big US manufacturers. It could come in
at less that 15 billion saving us all kinds of money What a comeback story.
 
Kreskin
+4
#8
Doesn't pass the carbon emmissions test. Sorry.
 
Angstrom
No Party Affiliation
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

Doesn't pass the carbon emmissions test. Sorry.

Harper don't give a fuk about carbon emissions. We have a war to win ! Build build build!!!
Last edited by Angstrom; Sep 9th, 2012 at 08:28 PM..
 
Kreskin
#10
Just equip the Snowbirds. That will have em shaking in their boots.
 
BruSan
#11
Well; official word today is: NO ARROW. Conservatives that formed an "independent" (Howzat?) commission to review the purchase of the F-35 have virtually already decided abandoning the thing would be too costly. So it's onward and upward (hopefully) with this boondoggle of an aircraft.

A case of we're already in for a pound without having even gotten a pennies worth.

This could easily be Harper's undoing and a really big black eye for the consevatives down the road.
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin View Post

Just equip the Snowbirds. That will have em shaking in their boots.

You want to throw Anne Murray at them?!? How fiendish!
 
BruSan
+2
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

You want to throw Anne Murray at them?!? How fiendish!

Followed by Celine and that's gotta put any enemy country on the run!
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by BruSan View Post

Followed by Celine and that's gotta put any enemy country on the run!

We'll lose that "nice guy" reputation in no time!
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Locutus View Post

The Arrow was an advanced, all-weather supersonic interceptor jet developed in the 1950s but the project was scrapped before a single plane could be built.....

Really?

Looking on the link, there's a photo of a bunch of people surrounding a built Arrow. I'm going by memory, but I thought there was like 2-3 Arrows built before Diefenbaker got in a fit and shut the whole project down and ordered their dismantling as well as many of the plans/documents for the jet to be scrapped.... and the only thing that remains was a nose cone / cockpit section which is still around.

So with very little to go by regarding building these jets again.... Good luck.

Don't get me wrong... I think it'd be cool to roll back and re-build the Arrow, with a bit of modernization.... but the reality is that it most likely won't happen any time soon, nor do I believe it'd be possible to reproduce them with the majority of the information on the jets no longer existing.
 
Kreskin
+2
#16
This is great, we'd have the only pull-start air force.
 
CDNBear
+3
#17
Oh great, another thread dedicated to the over blown Arrow.
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
+2
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius View Post

Really?

Looking on the link, there's a photo of a bunch of people surrounding a built Arrow. I'm going by memory, but I thought there was like 2-3 Arrows built before Diefenbaker got in a fit and shut the whole project down and ordered their dismantling as well as many of the plans/documents for the jet to be scrapped.... and the only thing that remains was a nose cone / cockpit section which is still around.

So with very little to go by regarding building these jets again.... Good luck.

Don't get me wrong... I think it'd be cool to roll back and re-build the Arrow, with a bit of modernization.... but the reality is that it most likely won't happen any time soon, nor do I believe it'd be possible to reproduce them with the majority of the information on the jets no longer existing.

Forget the Arrow. We can build an all new fighter for less than the F-35. A new fighter would have no trouble being
faster than the F-35. The F-18 is faster than the F-35. Hell, order the Super Hornet. At least we would be on budget
with a faster aircraft.
 
petros
#19
Lmfao!
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Oh great, another thread dedicated to the over blown Arrow.

We do seem to keep coming back to this don't we?

I blame those damn Heritage Commercials.
 
petros
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

I blame those damn Heritage Commercials.

Strange how that works. Country music and beer makes me want to shoot road signs.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

Oh great, another thread dedicated to the over blown Arrow.

I'm inclined to agree. From what was on the news about it this looks like a few people with idle manufacturing plants in Ontario looking to get in on some taxpayer money. I think they lowballed the development number in an attempt to get a foot in the door and spend us into a program we won't be able to afford to drop.
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Strange how that works. Country music and beer makes me want to shoot road signs.

Subliminal messaging. It's not just to make you buy more coke at the movies anymore.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#24
From what I have read the Arrow had some serious design flaws particularly in its missile deployment system. It was a bit awkward and slow to deploy and that would be valuable time lost in a firefight.
 
Walter
+5
#25  Top Rated Post
Like I said.
 
Vancouverite
#26
The 1950's technology is a little out of date, I think.
 
GroundWater
+2
#27
I did an essay on the Arrow in grade 12 and, from what I researched the biggest reason it was snowballed was pressure from Americans. The reasearch that I did was not only at the library (before the internet) but, first hand accounts from former employees of Avro. I lived in Brampton growing up and Malton was right next door,(where they were built) there were alot of McDonald Douglas employees around at the time who happened to be my friends grandfathers,fathers and uncles and alot of them were there and employed at Avro.

To make a long story short, the Americans were not happy with abunch of hicks (canoe builders) designing and possibly selling advanced fighter jets to the rest of world. It was designed as an interceptor fighter jet, it was the first swept wing fighter jet, it had Canadian Iroqouis engines and it had Canadian weapon systems,it was 100% Canadian and, from the limited testing it did recieve it was 20 years ahead of its time. It was still in the development stages when it was scrapped and, we never did see its full potential.
 
taxslave
Free Thinker
+1
#28
20 years ahead of its time still makes it 30 years past its best before date.
 
EagleSmack
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by GroundWater View Post

I did an essay on the Arrow in grade 12 and, from what I researched the biggest reason it was snowballed was pressure from Americans. The reasearch that I did was not only at the library (before the internet) but, first hand accounts from former employees of Avro. I lived in Brampton growing up and Malton was right next door,(where they were built) there were alot of McDonald Douglas employees around at the time who happened to be my friends grandfathers,fathers and uncles and alot of them were there and employed at Avro.

To make a long story short, the Americans were not happy with abunch of hicks (canoe builders) designing and possibly selling advanced fighter jets to the rest of world. It was designed as an interceptor fighter jet, it was the first swept wing fighter jet, it had Canadian Iroqouis engines and it had Canadian weapon systems,it was 100% Canadian and, from the limited testing it did recieve it was 20 years ahead of its time. It was still in the development stages when it was scrapped and, we never did see its full potential.


Did you get an F on the report?

First Swept wing fighter...





Delta Wing Fighter




Last edited by EagleSmack; Sep 12th, 2012 at 09:44 AM..
 
#juan
No Party Affiliation
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

Did you get an F on the report?

First Swept wing fighter...





Delta Wing Fighter





How about "first white delta winged fighter built in Canada"?

Quote: Originally Posted by #juan View Post

How about "first white delta winged fighter built in Canada"?

ARROW 201 Takes Off - YouTube
 

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