The Character of Jesus Christ

sanctus
#1
From the Catholic Encyclopedia
The surpassing eminence of the character of Jesus has been acknowledged by men of the most varied type:
Kant testifies to His ideal perfection;
Hegel sees in Him the union of the human and the Divine;
the most advanced sceptics do Him homage;
Spinoza speaks of Him as the truest symbol of heavenly wisdom;
the beauty and grandeur of His life overawe Voltaire;
Napoleon I, at St. Helena, felt convinced that "Between him [Jesus] and whoever else in the world there is no possible term of comparison" (Montholon, "Récit de la Captivité de l'Empereur Napoléon").
Rousseau testifies: "If the life and death of Socrates are those of a sage, the life and death of Jesus are those of a god."
Strauss acknowledges: "He is the highest object we can possibly imagine with respect to religion, the being without whose presence in the mind perfect piety is impossible".
To Renan "The Christ of the Gospels is the most beautiful incarnation of God in the most beautiful of forms. His beauty is eternal; his reign will never end."
John Stuart Mill spoke of Jesus as "a man charged with a special, express, and unique commission from God to lead mankind to truth and virtue".
Not that the views of the foregoing witnesses are of any great importance for the theological student of the life of Jesus; but they show at least the impression made on the most different classes of men by the history of Christ.

In His relation to men Jesus manifested certain qualities which were perceived by all, being subject to the light of reason; but other qualities were reserved for those who viewed Him in the light of faith. Both deserve a brief study.
(1) In the Light of Reason
There is no trustworthy tradition concerning the bodily appearance of Jesus, but this is not needed in order to obtain a picture of His character. It is true that at first sight the conduct of Jesus is so many-sided that His character seems to elude all description. Command and sympathy, power and charm, authority and affection, cheerfulness and gravity, are the some of the qualities that make the analysis impossible. The make-up of the Gospels does not facilitate the work. At first they appear to us a bewildering forest of dogmatic statements and moral principles; there is no system, no method, everything is occassional , everything fragmentary. The Gospels are neither a manual of dogma nor a treatise on casuistry, though they are the fountain of both. No wonder then the various investgators have arrived at entirely different conclusion at the study of Jesus. Some call Him a fanatic, others make Him a socialist, others again an anarchist, while many call Him a dreamer, a mystic, an Essene. But in this variety of views there are two main concepts under which the others may be summarized: Some consider Jesus an ascetic, others an aesthete; some emphasize His suffering, others His joyfulness; some identify Him with ecclesiasticism, others with humanism; some recognize in Him the prophetic picture of the Old Testament and the monastic of the New, others see in Him only gladness and poetry. There may be solid ground for both views; but they do not exhaust the character of Jesus. Both are only by-products which really existed in Jesus, but were not primarily intended; they are only enjoyed and suffered in passing, while Jesus strove to attain an end wholly different from either joy or sorrow.
(a) Strength
Considering the life of Jesus in the light of reason, His strength, His poise, and His grace are His most characteristic qualities. His strength shows itself in His manner of life, His decision, His authority. In His rugged, nomadic, homeless life there is no room for weakness or sentimentality. Indecision is rejected by Jesus on several occasions: "No man can serve two masters"; "He that is not with me, is against me"; Seek first the kingdom of God", these are some of the statements expressing Christ's attitude to indecision of will. Of Himself He said: "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me"; "I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me." The authority of the Master does not allow its power to be questioned; He calls to men in their boats, in their tax-booths, on their homes, "Follow me", and they look up into His face and obey. St. Matthew testifies, "The multitude...glorified God that gave such power to men"; St. Mark adds, "the kingdom of God comes to power"; St. Luke says, "Thou hast given him power over all flesh"; the Book of the Acts reads, "God anointed him...with power"; St. Paul too is impressed with "the power of our Lord Jesus". In His teaching Jesus does not argue, or prove, or threaten, like the Phrarisees, but He speaks like one having authority. Nowhere is Jesus merely a long-faced ascetic or a joyous comrade, we find Him everywhere to be leader of men, whose principles are built on a rock.
(b) Poise
It may be said that the strength of Christ's character gives rise to another quality which we may call poise. Reason is like the sails of the boat, the will is its rudder, and the feelings are the waves thrown upon either side of the ship as it passes through the waters. The will-power of Jesus is strong enough to keep a perfect equilibrium between His feelings and His reason; His body is the perfect instrument in the performance of His duty; His emotions are wholly subservient to the Will of His Father; it is the call of complying with His higher duties that prevents His austerity from becoming excessive. There is therefore a perfect balance or equilibrium in Jesus between the life of His body, of His mind, and of His emotions. His character is so rounded off that, at first sight, there remains nothing which could make it characteristic. This poise in the character of Jesus produces a simplicity which pervades every one of His actions. As the old Roman roads led straight ahead in spite of mountains and valleys, ascents and declivities, so does the life of Jesus flow quietly onward in accordance with the call of duty, in spite of pleasure or pain, honour or ignominy. Another trait in Jesus which may be considered as flowing from the poise of His character is His unalterable peace, a peace which may be ruffled but cannot be destroyed either by His inward feelings or outward encounters. And these personal qualities in Jesus are reflected in his teaching. He establishes an equilibrium between the rightousness of the Old Testament and the justice of the New, between the love and life of the former and those of the latter. He lops off indeed the Pharisaic conventionalism and externalism, but they were merely degenerated outgrowths; He urges the law of love, but shows that it embraces the whole Law and the Prophets; He promises life, but it consists not so much in our possession as in our capacity to use our possession. Nor can it be urged that the poise of Christ's teaching is destroyed by His three paradoxes of self-reliance, of service, and of idealism. The law of self-sacrifice inculcates that we shall find life by losing it; but the law of biological organisms, of physiological tissues, of intellectual achivements, and of economic processes shows that self-sacrifice is self-realization in the end. The second paradox is that of service: "Whosoever will be the greater among you, let him be your minister: and he that will be first among you, shall be your servant." But in the industrial and artistic world, too, the greatest men are those who have done most service. Thirdly, the idealism of Jesus is expressed in such words as "The life is more than the meat", and "Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God." But even our realistic age must grant that the reality of the law is its ideals, and again, that the world of the idealist is impossible only for the weak, while the strong character creates the world after which he strives. The character of Jesus therefore is the embodiment of both strength and poise. It thus verifies the definition given by such an involved writer as Emerson: "Character is centrality, the impossibility of being displaced or overset...The natural measure of this power is the resistence of circumstances."
(c) Grace
But if there were not a third essential element entering into the character of Jesus, it might not be attractive after all. Even saints are at times bad neighbours; we may like them, but sometimes we like them only at a distance. The character of Christ carries with it the trait of grace, doing away with all harshness and want of amiability. Grace is the unconstrained expression of the self-forgetting and kindly mind. It is a beautiful way of doing the right thing, in the right way, at the right time, therefore opens all hearts to its possessor. Sympathy is the widst channel through which grace flows, and the abundance of the stream testifies to the reserve of grace. Now Jesus sympathizes with all classes, with the rich and the poor, the learned and the ignorant, the happy and the sad; He moves with the same sense of familiarity among all classes of society. For the self-righteous Pharisees He has only the words, "Woe to you, hypocrites"; he disciples, "Unless you become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Plato and Aristotle are utterly unlike Jesus; they may speak of natural virtue, but we never find children in their arms. Jesus treats the publicans as His friends; He encourages the most tentative beginnings of moral growth. He chooses common fishermen for the corner -stones of His kingdom, and by His kindliness trains them to become the light of the world and the salt of the earth; He bends down to St. Peter whose character was a heap of sand rather than a solid "foundation, but He graciously forms Peter into the rock upon which to build his Church. After two of the Apostles had fallen, Jesus was gracious to both, though He saved only one, while the other destroyed himself. Women in need are not excluded from the general graciousness of Jesus; He receives the homage of the sinful woman, He consolves the sorrowing sisters Martha and Mary, He cures the mother-in -law of St. Peter and restores the health of numerous other women of Galilee, He has words of sympathy for the women of Jerusalem who bewailed His sufferings, He was subject to His mother till He reached man's estate, and when dying on the Cross commanded her to the care of His beloved disciple. The grace of the Master is also evident in the form of His teaching: He lays under contribution the simple phases of nature, the hen with her chickens, the gnat in the cup, the camel in the narrow street, the fig tree and its fruit, the fishermen sorting the catch. He meets with the lightest touch, approaching sometimes the play of humour and sometimes the thrust of irony, the simple doubts of His disciples, the selfish questions of His hearers, and the subtlest snares of his enemies. He feels no need of thrift in His benefits on the few as abundantly as the vastest multitudes. He flings out His parables into the world that those who have ears may hear. There is a prodigality in this manifestation of Christ's grace that can only be symbolized, but not equalled, by the waste of seed in the realm of nature.
(2) In the Light of Faith
In the light of faith the life of Jesus is an uninterrupted series of acts of love for man. It was love that impelled the Son of God to take on human nature, though He did so with the full consent of His Father: "For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son" (John, iii, 16). For thirty years Jesus shows His love by a life of poverty, labour, and hardship in the fulfillment of the duties of a common trademan. When His public ministry began, He simply spent Himself for the good of His neighbour, "doing good, and healing all that were oppressed by the devil" (Acts, x, 3. He shows a boundless compassion for all the infirmities of the body; He uses His miraculous power to heal the sick, to free the possessed, to resuscitate the dead. The moral weaknesses of man move His heart still more effectively; the woman at Jacob's well, Matthew the publican, Mary Magdalen the public sinner, Zacheus the unjust administrator, are only a few instances of sinners who received encouragement from the lips of Jesus. He is ready with forgiveness for all; the parable of the Prodigal Son illustrates His love for the sinner. In His work of teaching He is at the service of the poorest outcast of Galilee as well as of the theological celebrities of Jerusalem. His bitterest enemies are not excluded from the manifestations of His love; even while He is being crucified He prays for their pardon. The Scribes and Pharisees are treated severely, only because they stand in the way of His love. "Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you" (Matt., xi, 2 is the message of His heart to poor suffering humanity. After laying down the rule, "Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John, xv, 13), He surpasses as it were His own standard by dying for His enemies. Fulfilling the unconscious prophecy of the godless high-priest, "It is expedient for you that one man should die for the people" (John, xi, 50), He freely meets His sufferings which He could have easily avoided (Matt., xxvi, 53), undergoes the greatest insults and ignominies, passes through the most severe bodily pains, and sheds His blood for men "unto remission of sins" (Matt., xxvi, 2. But the love of Jesus embraced not only the spiritual welfare of men, it extended also to their temporal happiness: "Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you" (Matt., vi, 33).
 
Ariadne
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

The surpassing eminence of the character of Jesus has been acknowledged by men of the most varied type:

Hasn't this been introduced on a different thread?

Philosophy and religion, whether it's the Cat in the Hat or Thoma Aquinas, is still the same discussion. If you aren't exactly explaining why you're naming Kant, you're not doing much better than dropping names ... in quotation marks, at that!

Jesus is not acknowledged by anyone except that he's still just a figment of the Christian religion, much like the figment of Judaism as yet unrevealed ... or maybe just ain't coming. Varied types will consider all possibilities, not just Christianity and Jesus.
 
Ariadne
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
Kant testifies to His ideal perfection

So what's your point about Kant, that he had an opinion about God that testified to his ideal perception? of what? That Jesus was his ideal perception of something? Obviously, Kant would make more sense within context ... he was, afterall, longwinded like hegel, heidiger and other Germans (not Arabs). To fit him into the Roman, Arab, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Islam, Caucasian, Negroid, Asian, Indian race and at the same time make sure he sounds intelligent .. who - ah

It's all very fine to quote someone else's philosophy, but if you have no opinion about the quote, it seems a little odd that you are making note of the quote. In fact, it's dripping with pseudo-intellectual. I realise that you expect people to read through the entire diatribe and then try to figure it out for themselves ... but, eh, why?

Okay ... not meaning to be rude, but definitely impatient ... what's your point?

About Kant and Jesus?
About Hegel and Jesus?
About German philosophers and Jesus?

And spare me the rest of the quote until after Kant,
 
jimmoyer
#4
Varied types will consider all possibilities, not just Christianity and Jesus.
-------------------------------------Ariadne----------------------------------------------------

Hmmm...

I'm wondering if that statement is true at all times?

We can consider all religions, all philosophies.

But.

I have seen the more advanced, mature types of people consider a universe of
possibilities within the confines of their own religion, or within the confines of their own philosophy.

For example a guy like al Sistani, revered shi-ite leader in Iraq.

I'll bet you he has considered a greater universe of possibilites within the confines of his own
religion than the average secular 30 year old European.

That statement presumes you are less enlightened if you don't consider all religions in an equal way.

Those who do look at all religions may not be as wise as those who explored the infinite
possiblities suggested by their own religions.

It's a way of looking at a rohrschak ink blot.

What if the test is only on that ink blot ?

 
Gilgamesh
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
The surpassing eminence of the character of Jesus has been acknowledged by men of the most varied type:
Kant testifies to His ideal perfection;
Hegel sees in Him the union of the human and the Divine;
the most advanced sceptics do Him homage;
Spinoza speaks of Him as the truest symbol of heavenly wisdom;
the beauty and grandeur of His life overawe Voltaire;
Napoleon I, at St. Helena, felt convinced that "Between him [Jesus] and whoever else in the world there is no possible term of comparison" (Montholon, "Récit de la Captivité de l'Empereur Napoléon").
Rousseau testifies: "If the life and death of Socrates are those of a sage, the life and death of Jesus are those of a god."
Strauss acknowledges: "He is the highest object we can possibly imagine with respect to religion, the being without whose presence in the mind perfect piety is impossible".
To Renan "The Christ of the Gospels is the most beautiful incarnation of God in the most beautiful of forms. His beauty is eternal; his reign will never end."
John Stuart Mill spoke of Jesus as "a man charged with a special, express, and unique commission from God to lead mankind to truth and virtue".
Not that the views of the foregoing witnesses are of any great importance for the theological student of the life of Jesus; but they show at least the impression made on the most different classes of men by the history of Christ.

In His relation to men Jesus manifested certain qualities which were perceived by all, being subject to the light of reason; but other qualities were reserved for those who viewed Him in the light of faith. Both deserve a brief study.
(1) In the Light of Reason
There is no trustworthy tradition concerning the bodily appearance of Jesus, but this is not needed in order to obtain a picture of His character. It is true that at first sight the conduct of Jesus is so many-sided that His character seems to elude all description. Command and sympathy, power and charm, authority and affection, cheerfulness and gravity, are the some of the qualities that make the analysis impossible. The make-up of the Gospels does not facilitate the work. At first they appear to us a bewildering forest of dogmatic statements and moral principles; there is no system, no method, everything is occassional , everything fragmentary. The Gospels are neither a manual of dogma nor a treatise on casuistry, though they are the fountain of both. No wonder then the various investgators have arrived at entirely different conclusion at the study of Jesus. Some call Him a fanatic, others make Him a socialist, others again an anarchist, while many call Him a dreamer, a mystic, an Essene. But in this variety of views there are two main concepts under which the others may be summarized: Some consider Jesus an ascetic, others an aesthete; some emphasize His suffering, others His joyfulness; some identify Him with ecclesiasticism, others with humanism; some recognize in Him the prophetic picture of the Old Testament and the monastic of the New, others see in Him only gladness and poetry. There may be solid ground for both views; but they do not exhaust the character of Jesus. Both are only by-products which really existed in Jesus, but were not primarily intended; they are only enjoyed and suffered in passing, while Jesus strove to attain an end wholly different from either joy or sorrow.
(a) Strength
Considering the life of Jesus in the light of reason, His strength, His poise, and His grace are His most characteristic qualities. His strength shows itself in His manner of life, His decision, His authority. In His rugged, nomadic, homeless life there is no room for weakness or sentimentality. Indecision is rejected by Jesus on several occasions: "No man can serve two masters"; "He that is not with me, is against me"; Seek first the kingdom of God", these are some of the statements expressing Christ's attitude to indecision of will. Of Himself He said: "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me"; "I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me." The authority of the Master does not allow its power to be questioned; He calls to men in their boats, in their tax-booths, on their homes, "Follow me", and they look up into His face and obey. St. Matthew testifies, "The multitude...glorified God that gave such power to men"; St. Mark adds, "the kingdom of God comes to power"; St. Luke says, "Thou hast given him power over all flesh"; the Book of the Acts reads, "God anointed him...with power"; St. Paul too is impressed with "the power of our Lord Jesus". In His teaching Jesus does not argue, or prove, or threaten, like the Phrarisees, but He speaks like one having authority. Nowhere is Jesus merely a long-faced ascetic or a joyous comrade, we find Him everywhere to be leader of men, whose principles are built on a rock.
(b) Poise
It may be said that the strength of Christ's character gives rise to another quality which we may call poise. Reason is like the sails of the boat, the will is its rudder, and the feelings are the waves thrown upon either side of the ship as it passes through the waters. The will-power of Jesus is strong enough to keep a perfect equilibrium between His feelings and His reason; His body is the perfect instrument in the performance of His duty; His emotions are wholly subservient to the Will of His Father; it is the call of complying with His higher duties that prevents His austerity from becoming excessive. There is therefore a perfect balance or equilibrium in Jesus between the life of His body, of His mind, and of His emotions. His character is so rounded off that, at first sight, there remains nothing which could make it characteristic. This poise in the character of Jesus produces a simplicity which pervades every one of His actions. As the old Roman roads led straight ahead in spite of mountains and valleys, ascents and declivities, so does the life of Jesus flow quietly onward in accordance with the call of duty, in spite of pleasure or pain, honour or ignominy. Another trait in Jesus which may be considered as flowing from the poise of His character is His unalterable peace, a peace which may be ruffled but cannot be destroyed either by His inward feelings or outward encounters. And these personal qualities in Jesus are reflected in his teaching. He establishes an equilibrium between the rightousness of the Old Testament and the justice of the New, between the love and life of the former and those of the latter. He lops off indeed the Pharisaic conventionalism and externalism, but they were merely degenerated outgrowths; He urges the law of love, but shows that it embraces the whole Law and the Prophets; He promises life, but it consists not so much in our possession as in our capacity to use our possession. Nor can it be urged that the poise of Christ's teaching is destroyed by His three paradoxes of self-reliance, of service, and of idealism. The law of self-sacrifice inculcates that we shall find life by losing it; but the law of biological organisms, of physiological tissues, of intellectual achivements, and of economic processes shows that self-sacrifice is self-realization in the end. The second paradox is that of service: "Whosoever will be the greater among you, let him be your minister: and he that will be first among you, shall be your servant." But in the industrial and artistic world, too, the greatest men are those who have done most service. Thirdly, the idealism of Jesus is expressed in such words as "The life is more than the meat", and "Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God." But even our realistic age must grant that the reality of the law is its ideals, and again, that the world of the idealist is impossible only for the weak, while the strong character creates the world after which he strives. The character of Jesus therefore is the embodiment of both strength and poise. It thus verifies the definition given by such an involved writer as Emerson: "Character is centrality, the impossibility of being displaced or overset...The natural measure of this power is the resistence of circumstances."
(c) Grace
But if there were not a third essential element entering into the character of Jesus, it might not be attractive after all. Even saints are at times bad neighbours; we may like them, but sometimes we like them only at a distance. The character of Christ carries with it the trait of grace, doing away with all harshness and want of amiability. Grace is the unconstrained expression of the self-forgetting and kindly mind. It is a beautiful way of doing the right thing, in the right way, at the right time, therefore opens all hearts to its possessor. Sympathy is the widst channel through which grace flows, and the abundance of the stream testifies to the reserve of grace. Now Jesus sympathizes with all classes, with the rich and the poor, the learned and the ignorant, the happy and the sad; He moves with the same sense of familiarity among all classes of society. For the self-righteous Pharisees He has only the words, "Woe to you, hypocrites"; he disciples, "Unless you become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Plato and Aristotle are utterly unlike Jesus; they may speak of natural virtue, but we never find children in their arms. Jesus treats the publicans as His friends; He encourages the most tentative beginnings of moral growth. He chooses common fishermen for the corner -stones of His kingdom, and by His kindliness trains them to become the light of the world and the salt of the earth; He bends down to St. Peter whose character was a heap of sand rather than a solid "foundation, but He graciously forms Peter into the rock upon which to build his Church. After two of the Apostles had fallen, Jesus was gracious to both, though He saved only one, while the other destroyed himself. Women in need are not excluded from the general graciousness of Jesus; He receives the homage of the sinful woman, He consolves the sorrowing sisters Martha and Mary, He cures the mother-in -law of St. Peter and restores the health of numerous other women of Galilee, He has words of sympathy for the women of Jerusalem who bewailed His sufferings, He was subject to His mother till He reached man's estate, and when dying on the Cross commanded her to the care of His beloved disciple. The grace of the Master is also evident in the form of His teaching: He lays under contribution the simple phases of nature, the hen with her chickens, the gnat in the cup, the camel in the narrow street, the fig tree and its fruit, the fishermen sorting the catch. He meets with the lightest touch, approaching sometimes the play of humour and sometimes the thrust of irony, the simple doubts of His disciples, the selfish questions of His hearers, and the subtlest snares of his enemies. He feels no need of thrift in His benefits on the few as abundantly as the vastest multitudes. He flings out His parables into the world that those who have ears may hear. There is a prodigality in this manifestation of Christ's grace that can only be symbolized, but not equalled, by the waste of seed in the realm of nature.
(2) In the Light of Faith
In the light of faith the life of Jesus is an uninterrupted series of acts of love for man. It was love that impelled the Son of God to take on human nature, though He did so with the full consent of His Father: "For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son" (John, iii, 16). For thirty years Jesus shows His love by a life of poverty, labour, and hardship in the fulfillment of the duties of a common trademan. When His public ministry began, He simply spent Himself for the good of His neighbour, "doing good, and healing all that were oppressed by the devil" (Acts, x, 3. He shows a boundless compassion for all the infirmities of the body; He uses His miraculous power to heal the sick, to free the possessed, to resuscitate the dead. The moral weaknesses of man move His heart still more effectively; the woman at Jacob's well, Matthew the publican, Mary Magdalen the public sinner, Zacheus the unjust administrator, are only a few instances of sinners who received encouragement from the lips of Jesus. He is ready with forgiveness for all; the parable of the Prodigal Son illustrates His love for the sinner. In His work of teaching He is at the service of the poorest outcast of Galilee as well as of the theological celebrities of Jerusalem. His bitterest enemies are not excluded from the manifestations of His love; even while He is being crucified He prays for their pardon. The Scribes and Pharisees are treated severely, only because they stand in the way of His love. "Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you" (Matt., xi, 2 is the message of His heart to poor suffering humanity. After laying down the rule, "Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John, xv, 13), He surpasses as it were His own standard by dying for His enemies. Fulfilling the unconscious prophecy of the godless high-priest, "It is expedient for you that one man should die for the people" (John, xi, 50), He freely meets His sufferings which He could have easily avoided (Matt., xxvi, 53), undergoes the greatest insults and ignominies, passes through the most severe bodily pains, and sheds His blood for men "unto remission of sins" (Matt., xxvi, 2. But the love of Jesus embraced not only the spiritual welfare of men, it extended also to their temporal happiness: "Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you" (Matt., vi, 33).

Anything proposed by the Vatican is suspect. They have twisted and altered their Jewish sect to an unrecognizable perverted mess.

Whatever Kant said means little.

Jesus instructed his followers and crowd to leave their parentsm their children, and to pay no heed to the morrow. Then he damned most of humanity by saying that their was no way to God except through him (Jesus). The astatenents were both utterly evil.

And of course, he told the disciples that he would return in their lifetimes.

LOL He was wrong about that too.

Quote: Originally Posted by sanctus View Post

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
The surpassing eminence of the character of Jesus has been acknowledged by men of the most varied type:
Kant testifies to His ideal perfection;
Hegel sees in Him the union of the human and the Divine;
the most advanced sceptics do Him homage;
Spinoza speaks of Him as the truest symbol of heavenly wisdom;
the beauty and grandeur of His life overawe Voltaire;
Napoleon I, at St. Helena, felt convinced that "Between him [Jesus] and whoever else in the world there is no possible term of comparison" (Montholon, "Récit de la Captivité de l'Empereur Napoléon").
Rousseau testifies: "If the life and death of Socrates are those of a sage, the life and death of Jesus are those of a god."
Strauss acknowledges: "He is the highest object we can possibly imagine with respect to religion, the being without whose presence in the mind perfect piety is impossible".
To Renan "The Christ of the Gospels is the most beautiful incarnation of God in the most beautiful of forms. His beauty is eternal; his reign will never end."
John Stuart Mill spoke of Jesus as "a man charged with a special, express, and unique commission from God to lead mankind to truth and virtue".
Not that the views of the foregoing witnesses are of any great importance for the theological student of the life of Jesus; but they show at least the impression made on the most different classes of men by the history of Christ.

In His relation to men Jesus manifested certain qualities which were perceived by all, being subject to the light of reason; but other qualities were reserved for those who viewed Him in the light of faith. Both deserve a brief study.
(1) In the Light of Reason
There is no trustworthy tradition concerning the bodily appearance of Jesus, but this is not needed in order to obtain a picture of His character. It is true that at first sight the conduct of Jesus is so many-sided that His character seems to elude all description. Command and sympathy, power and charm, authority and affection, cheerfulness and gravity, are the some of the qualities that make the analysis impossible. The make-up of the Gospels does not facilitate the work. At first they appear to us a bewildering forest of dogmatic statements and moral principles; there is no system, no method, everything is occassional , everything fragmentary. The Gospels are neither a manual of dogma nor a treatise on casuistry, though they are the fountain of both. No wonder then the various investgators have arrived at entirely different conclusion at the study of Jesus. Some call Him a fanatic, others make Him a socialist, others again an anarchist, while many call Him a dreamer, a mystic, an Essene. But in this variety of views there are two main concepts under which the others may be summarized: Some consider Jesus an ascetic, others an aesthete; some emphasize His suffering, others His joyfulness; some identify Him with ecclesiasticism, others with humanism; some recognize in Him the prophetic picture of the Old Testament and the monastic of the New, others see in Him only gladness and poetry. There may be solid ground for both views; but they do not exhaust the character of Jesus. Both are only by-products which really existed in Jesus, but were not primarily intended; they are only enjoyed and suffered in passing, while Jesus strove to attain an end wholly different from either joy or sorrow.
(a) Strength
Considering the life of Jesus in the light of reason, His strength, His poise, and His grace are His most characteristic qualities. His strength shows itself in His manner of life, His decision, His authority. In His rugged, nomadic, homeless life there is no room for weakness or sentimentality. Indecision is rejected by Jesus on several occasions: "No man can serve two masters"; "He that is not with me, is against me"; Seek first the kingdom of God", these are some of the statements expressing Christ's attitude to indecision of will. Of Himself He said: "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me"; "I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me." The authority of the Master does not allow its power to be questioned; He calls to men in their boats, in their tax-booths, on their homes, "Follow me", and they look up into His face and obey. St. Matthew testifies, "The multitude...glorified God that gave such power to men"; St. Mark adds, "the kingdom of God comes to power"; St. Luke says, "Thou hast given him power over all flesh"; the Book of the Acts reads, "God anointed him...with power"; St. Paul too is impressed with "the power of our Lord Jesus". In His teaching Jesus does not argue, or prove, or threaten, like the Phrarisees, but He speaks like one having authority. Nowhere is Jesus merely a long-faced ascetic or a joyous comrade, we find Him everywhere to be leader of men, whose principles are built on a rock.
(b) Poise
It may be said that the strength of Christ's character gives rise to another quality which we may call poise. Reason is like the sails of the boat, the will is its rudder, and the feelings are the waves thrown upon either side of the ship as it passes through the waters. The will-power of Jesus is strong enough to keep a perfect equilibrium between His feelings and His reason; His body is the perfect instrument in the performance of His duty; His emotions are wholly subservient to the Will of His Father; it is the call of complying with His higher duties that prevents His austerity from becoming excessive. There is therefore a perfect balance or equilibrium in Jesus between the life of His body, of His mind, and of His emotions. His character is so rounded off that, at first sight, there remains nothing which could make it characteristic. This poise in the character of Jesus produces a simplicity which pervades every one of His actions. As the old Roman roads led straight ahead in spite of mountains and valleys, ascents and declivities, so does the life of Jesus flow quietly onward in accordance with the call of duty, in spite of pleasure or pain, honour or ignominy. Another trait in Jesus which may be considered as flowing from the poise of His character is His unalterable peace, a peace which may be ruffled but cannot be destroyed either by His inward feelings or outward encounters. And these personal qualities in Jesus are reflected in his teaching. He establishes an equilibrium between the rightousness of the Old Testament and the justice of the New, between the love and life of the former and those of the latter. He lops off indeed the Pharisaic conventionalism and externalism, but they were merely degenerated outgrowths; He urges the law of love, but shows that it embraces the whole Law and the Prophets; He promises life, but it consists not so much in our possession as in our capacity to use our possession. Nor can it be urged that the poise of Christ's teaching is destroyed by His three paradoxes of self-reliance, of service, and of idealism. The law of self-sacrifice inculcates that we shall find life by losing it; but the law of biological organisms, of physiological tissues, of intellectual achivements, and of economic processes shows that self-sacrifice is self-realization in the end. The second paradox is that of service: "Whosoever will be the greater among you, let him be your minister: and he that will be first among you, shall be your servant." But in the industrial and artistic world, too, the greatest men are those who have done most service. Thirdly, the idealism of Jesus is expressed in such words as "The life is more than the meat", and "Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God." But even our realistic age must grant that the reality of the law is its ideals, and again, that the world of the idealist is impossible only for the weak, while the strong character creates the world after which he strives. The character of Jesus therefore is the embodiment of both strength and poise. It thus verifies the definition given by such an involved writer as Emerson: "Character is centrality, the impossibility of being displaced or overset...The natural measure of this power is the resistence of circumstances."
(c) Grace
But if there were not a third essential element entering into the character of Jesus, it might not be attractive after all. Even saints are at times bad neighbours; we may like them, but sometimes we like them only at a distance. The character of Christ carries with it the trait of grace, doing away with all harshness and want of amiability. Grace is the unconstrained expression of the self-forgetting and kindly mind. It is a beautiful way of doing the right thing, in the right way, at the right time, therefore opens all hearts to its possessor. Sympathy is the widst channel through which grace flows, and the abundance of the stream testifies to the reserve of grace. Now Jesus sympathizes with all classes, with the rich and the poor, the learned and the ignorant, the happy and the sad; He moves with the same sense of familiarity among all classes of society. For the self-righteous Pharisees He has only the words, "Woe to you, hypocrites"; he disciples, "Unless you become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Plato and Aristotle are utterly unlike Jesus; they may speak of natural virtue, but we never find children in their arms. Jesus treats the publicans as His friends; He encourages the most tentative beginnings of moral growth. He chooses common fishermen for the corner -stones of His kingdom, and by His kindliness trains them to become the light of the world and the salt of the earth; He bends down to St. Peter whose character was a heap of sand rather than a solid "foundation, but He graciously forms Peter into the rock upon which to build his Church. After two of the Apostles had fallen, Jesus was gracious to both, though He saved only one, while the other destroyed himself. Women in need are not excluded from the general graciousness of Jesus; He receives the homage of the sinful woman, He consolves the sorrowing sisters Martha and Mary, He cures the mother-in -law of St. Peter and restores the health of numerous other women of Galilee, He has words of sympathy for the women of Jerusalem who bewailed His sufferings, He was subject to His mother till He reached man's estate, and when dying on the Cross commanded her to the care of His beloved disciple. The grace of the Master is also evident in the form of His teaching: He lays under contribution the simple phases of nature, the hen with her chickens, the gnat in the cup, the camel in the narrow street, the fig tree and its fruit, the fishermen sorting the catch. He meets with the lightest touch, approaching sometimes the play of humour and sometimes the thrust of irony, the simple doubts of His disciples, the selfish questions of His hearers, and the subtlest snares of his enemies. He feels no need of thrift in His benefits on the few as abundantly as the vastest multitudes. He flings out His parables into the world that those who have ears may hear. There is a prodigality in this manifestation of Christ's grace that can only be symbolized, but not equalled, by the waste of seed in the realm of nature.
(2) In the Light of Faith
In the light of faith the life of Jesus is an uninterrupted series of acts of love for man. It was love that impelled the Son of God to take on human nature, though He did so with the full consent of His Father: "For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son" (John, iii, 16). For thirty years Jesus shows His love by a life of poverty, labour, and hardship in the fulfillment of the duties of a common trademan. When His public ministry began, He simply spent Himself for the good of His neighbour, "doing good, and healing all that were oppressed by the devil" (Acts, x, 3. He shows a boundless compassion for all the infirmities of the body; He uses His miraculous power to heal the sick, to free the possessed, to resuscitate the dead. The moral weaknesses of man move His heart still more effectively; the woman at Jacob's well, Matthew the publican, Mary Magdalen the public sinner, Zacheus the unjust administrator, are only a few instances of sinners who received encouragement from the lips of Jesus. He is ready with forgiveness for all; the parable of the Prodigal Son illustrates His love for the sinner. In His work of teaching He is at the service of the poorest outcast of Galilee as well as of the theological celebrities of Jerusalem. His bitterest enemies are not excluded from the manifestations of His love; even while He is being crucified He prays for their pardon. The Scribes and Pharisees are treated severely, only because they stand in the way of His love. "Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you" (Matt., xi, 2 is the message of His heart to poor suffering humanity. After laying down the rule, "Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John, xv, 13), He surpasses as it were His own standard by dying for His enemies. Fulfilling the unconscious prophecy of the godless high-priest, "It is expedient for you that one man should die for the people" (John, xi, 50), He freely meets His sufferings which He could have easily avoided (Matt., xxvi, 53), undergoes the greatest insults and ignominies, passes through the most severe bodily pains, and sheds His blood for men "unto remission of sins" (Matt., xxvi, 2. But the love of Jesus embraced not only the spiritual welfare of men, it extended also to their temporal happiness: "Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you" (Matt., vi, 33).

With insane rants like the above, there is no hope for peoplekind.

We is done screwed!
 
MHz
-1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post

Anything proposed by the Vatican is suspect. They have twisted and altered their Jewish sect to an unrecognizable perverted mess.

Of course they have Dear. What chance would a fledgling Church have against the Money-changers in Jerusalem? What's that, sorry, that should be 'what chance would the Jewish 'money-changers' have against the almighty Church. Logic would say one case is a lot more likely than the other
 
DaSleeper
+1
#7  Top Rated Post
Any excuse to post your arab love joo hatred huh?


An eleven year old thread ....


Take your damn pills dude...
 
Harikrish
-1
#8
Not only did Jesus break all the commandments, He was declared certifiably mad and demon possessed by his family and those around him.

Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "

John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him? . . .

Jesus rants away like a madman in public and ask his disciples to eat him.
John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
60 On hearing it, Many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? "
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

After Jesus discovered he was an illegitimate bastard born out of wedlock, He sought to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10: 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

Here is how Jesus is diagnosed by psychiatrists.

A. Today, Psychiatry diagnoses Jesus with schizophrenia:
"In short, The nature of the hallucinations of Jesus, As they are described in the orthodox Gospels, Permits us to conclude that the founder of the Christian religion was afflicted with religious paranoia. " (Charles Binet-Sangl", La Folie de J"sus, The Madness of Jesus,

"Everything that we know about him [Jesus] conforms so perfectly to the clinical picture of paranoia that it is hardly conceivable that people can even question the accuracy of the diagnosis. "(American psychiatrist William Hirsch, Conclusions of a Psychiatrist,

"Jesus Christ might simply have returned to his carpentry following the use of modern [psychiatric] treatments. " (William Sargant, "The movement in psychiatry away from the philosophical, " The Times (English), 22 August

"For example, As we will show, A materialist readily believes-without any reliable evidence whatsoever-that great spiritual leaders suffer from temporal-lobe epilepsy rather than that they have spiritual experiences that inspire others as well as themselves. " (The Spiritual Brain, Mario Beauregard Ph. D. , Neuroscientist,

"JESUS: The New Testament (NT) recalls Jesus as having experienced and shown behavior closely resembling the DSM-IV-TR"defined phenomena of Auditory Hallucinations, Visual Hallucinations, Delusions, Referential thinking (see Figure 3), Paranoid-type (Paranoid Schizophrenic subtype) thought content, And hyperreligiosity " In terms of potential causes of perceptual and behavioral changes, It might be asked whether starvation and metabolic derangements were present.

The hallucinatory-like experiences that Jesus had in the desert while he fasted for 40 days (Luke 4:1"13) may have been induced by starvation and metabolic derangements. " The absence of physical maladies or apparent epilepsy leaves primary psychiatric etiologies as more plausible. As seen with the previous cases, Jesus" experiences can be potentially conceptualized within the framework of Paranoid Schizophrenia or Psychosis Not Otherwise Specified. Other reasonable possibilities might include bipolar and schizoaffective disorders.

There is a 5%-10% lifetime risk of suicide in persons with schizophrenia. Suicide is defined as a self-inflicted death with evidence of an intention to end one"s life. The New Testament recounts Jesus" awareness that people intended to kill him and his taking steps to avoid peril until the time at which he permitted his apprehension. In advance, He explained to his followers the necessity of his death as prelude for his return (Matthew 16:21"28; Mark 8:31; John 16:16"2. If this occurred in the manner described, Then Jesus appears to have deliberately placed himself in circumstances wherein he anticipated his execution. Although schizophrenia is associated with an increased risk of suicide, This would not be a typical case.

The more common mood-disorder accompaniments of suicide, Such as depression, Hopelessness, And social isolation, Were not present, But other risk factors, Such as age and male gender, Were present. Suicide-by-proxy is described as "any incident in which a suicidal individual causes his or her death to be carried out by another person. " There is a potential parallel of Jesus" beliefs and behavior leading up to his death to that of one who premeditates a form of suicide-by-proxy. " (The Role of Psychotic Disorders in Religious History Considered, Evan D. Murray, M. D. Miles G. Cunningham, M. D. , Ph. D. Bruce H. Price, M. D. , The Journal of Neuropsychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences

They confirm Jesus was a deluded liar and a lunatic.
 
Gilgamesh
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Not only did Jesus break all the commandments, He was declared certifiably mad and demon possessed by his family and those around him.

Mark 3:21 When His family heard about this, They went out to take custody of Him, Saying, "He is out of His mind. "

John 10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and insane. Why would you listen to Him? . . .

Jesus rants away like a madman in public and ask his disciples to eat him.
John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, And I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
60 On hearing it, Many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it? "
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

After Jesus discovered he was an illegitimate bastard born out of wedlock, He sought to destroy the traditional family.
Matthew 10: 35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, A daughter against her mother, A daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"

Here is how Jesus is diagnosed by psychiatrists.

A. Today, Psychiatry diagnoses Jesus with schizophrenia:
"In short, The nature of the hallucinations of Jesus, As they are described in the orthodox Gospels, Permits us to conclude that the founder of the Christian religion was afflicted with religious paranoia. " (Charles Binet-Sangl", La Folie de J"sus, The Madness of Jesus,

"Everything that we know about him [Jesus] conforms so perfectly to the clinical picture of paranoia that it is hardly conceivable that people can even question the accuracy of the diagnosis. "(American psychiatrist William Hirsch, Conclusions of a Psychiatrist,

"Jesus Christ might simply have returned to his carpentry following the use of modern [psychiatric] treatments. " (William Sargant, "The movement in psychiatry away from the philosophical, " The Times (English), 22 August

"For example, As we will show, A materialist readily believes-without any reliable evidence whatsoever-that great spiritual leaders suffer from temporal-lobe epilepsy rather than that they have spiritual experiences that inspire others as well as themselves. " (The Spiritual Brain, Mario Beauregard Ph. D. , Neuroscientist,

"JESUS: The New Testament (NT) recalls Jesus as having experienced and shown behavior closely resembling the DSM-IV-TR"defined phenomena of Auditory Hallucinations, Visual Hallucinations, Delusions, Referential thinking (see Figure 3), Paranoid-type (Paranoid Schizophrenic subtype) thought content, And hyperreligiosity " In terms of potential causes of perceptual and behavioral changes, It might be asked whether starvation and metabolic derangements were present.

The hallucinatory-like experiences that Jesus had in the desert while he fasted for 40 days (Luke 4:1"13) may have been induced by starvation and metabolic derangements. " The absence of physical maladies or apparent epilepsy leaves primary psychiatric etiologies as more plausible. As seen with the previous cases, Jesus" experiences can be potentially conceptualized within the framework of Paranoid Schizophrenia or Psychosis Not Otherwise Specified. Other reasonable possibilities might include bipolar and schizoaffective disorders.

There is a 5%-10% lifetime risk of suicide in persons with schizophrenia. Suicide is defined as a self-inflicted death with evidence of an intention to end one"s life. The New Testament recounts Jesus" awareness that people intended to kill him and his taking steps to avoid peril until the time at which he permitted his apprehension. In advance, He explained to his followers the necessity of his death as prelude for his return (Matthew 16:21"28; Mark 8:31; John 16:16"2. If this occurred in the manner described, Then Jesus appears to have deliberately placed himself in circumstances wherein he anticipated his execution. Although schizophrenia is associated with an increased risk of suicide, This would not be a typical case.

The more common mood-disorder accompaniments of suicide, Such as depression, Hopelessness, And social isolation, Were not present, But other risk factors, Such as age and male gender, Were present. Suicide-by-proxy is described as "any incident in which a suicidal individual causes his or her death to be carried out by another person. " There is a potential parallel of Jesus" beliefs and behavior leading up to his death to that of one who premeditates a form of suicide-by-proxy. " (The Role of Psychotic Disorders in Religious History Considered, Evan D. Murray, M. D. Miles G. Cunningham, M. D. , Ph. D. Bruce H. Price, M. D. , The Journal of Neuropsychiatry and Clinical Neurosciences

They confirm Jesus was a deluded liar and a lunatic.

And your obsession with this insanity puts you right alongside him.
 
Harikrish
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post

And your obsession with this insanity puts you right alongside him.

Cannot handle scriptures, can you?
The truth shall set you free, bro?
 
Jinentonix
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Cannot handle scriptures, can you?
The truth shall set you free, bro?

Yes it will. All deity-based religions are bullshit. 250,000 years of existence and people still believe in imaginary beings in the sky. Man wrote the Bible and man decided what scriptures would be included in it.
Look at the first 4 books of the NT. Why would the perfect word of God need to tell the story of Christ's birth 4 times but with different details each telling?
Then look at the OT. The first two books (at least) are little more than allegory. Then there's stories that were lifted from older religions. Meanwhile, God is routinely displayed as a psychopath throughout it.
One last thing. The three major religions all worship what is essentially the same god. So why would god send three different messages to them? More importantly, if the scriptures of the various religions are the unerring words of their god, then one would think there'd be no room for more than one interpretation of those scriptures, thus no sectarian violence.
When I was much younger, I witnessed a man get kicked out of our church over the story of Jonah. It was all over the interpretation of "great fish". The Bible claims, "And God prepared for Jonah a great fish". The aforementioned man argued that it was likely a whale and not a fish. The church disagreed with him, (so did my mother for that matter) because the Bible specifically said "a great fish".
When I got a little older I had a talk with my mom about that. I said, "How do you know that isn't what the people of the day called whales? They swim and live in the sea just like fish except they're humongous. I'm pretty sure the people back then weren't all that familiar with the taxonomy of the various species of life."
What is interesting though is today the idea of "living in sin" and having premarital sex is a sin according to several Christian sects and yet the Old Testament not only approved of it, it encouraged it. It even talked about restitution to the girl's father if she was unable to get pregnant, because of course as we all know by now, fertility problems never affect men, only women.
 
Gilgamesh
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Harikrish View Post

Cannot handle scriptures, can you?
The truth shall set you free, bro?

Their is no truth to be found at all in The Torah or the New Testament which were ripoffs from older Sumerian religions plus a dash of Egyptian bs.

So. No truth there in any manner, shape or form to set anyone free.

All the silliness regarding what jeshuva may or may not have said is laughable and peurile. The very earliest gospel was written at least 90 years after his death with the others written 200-400 years later.

BTW calling him. 'Christ' is completely inaccurate.

'Christ' comes from the Greek which was the main language of the New Testament, meaning 'king' and this itinerant Jewish rabbi was king of nothing.
 
MHz
#13
Who said religion was a dead subject around here?
 
Harikrish
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post

Their is no truth to be found at all in The Torah or the New Testament which were ripoffs from older Sumerian religions plus a dash of Egyptian bs.
So. No truth there in any manner, shape or form to set anyone free.
All the silliness regarding what jeshuva may or may not have said is laughable and peurile. The very earliest gospel was written at least 90 years after his death with the others written 200-400 years later.
BTW calling him. 'Christ' is completely inaccurate.
'Christ' comes from the Greek which was the main language of the New Testament, meaning 'king' and this itinerant Jewish rabbi was king of nothing.

It is possible you are confused and troubled because the truth has not set you free. But that could simply be your poor understanding. How about if you discovered Jesus Was an atheist?


From the Scriptures and the actions and words of Jesus we can conclude Jesus was an Atheist.

Atheist definition: a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Jesus mocked the religious leaders of his time. He called them vipers and scums just like Atheist mocked the believers today.
Matthew 23:33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Jesus called his body a temple and drove people out of the real temple of worship.
John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Matthew 21:12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

Jesus claimed he had all authority over his alien Kingdom and earth. Yet he stood idly by as the Romans destroyed the holy city and sanctuary. Atheist enough for you?

He believed anybody who ate his flesh and drank his blood would have eternal life. Who needs a God if Jewish meat is kosher and gets you eternal life in the hereafter.

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Jesus said he was from an alien world.
John 8:23 I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 18:36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."

Jesus was despised like most atheists were during his time. He comforted them.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

Jesus on the cross mocked the God of the Bible.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Were those last words of Jesus that motivated the Pope to declare Jesus was a failure of the cross?

Pope declared:"And if at times our efforts and works seem to fail and not produce fruit, we need to remember that we are followers of Jesus Christ and his life, humanly speaking, ended in failure, the failure of the cross."

Jesus called God his father throughout his life. By doing this he reduced God to a rapist and the cause of his illegitimate bastard status.

He even blamed God for his alcoholism like God willed him to drink the water he turned into alcohol.
Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

He was not directing people to God, he was forcing believers to chose between family or him.

Matthew 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to turn ""a man against his father, a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law"
36 a man"s enemies will be the members of his own household."[c]
37 "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

But if Jesus was an atheist as scriptures suggests who went against the religious leaders of his time by denouncing their beliefs. Then why do Christians worship an atheist Jesus?
By worshipping the atheist Jesus they believe they are turning him into God by their exhaltation.

If the Pope did not remind Christians that Jesus was a failure of the cross we would be swamped by Christisns on This forum But we find This forum is full of happy atheists who take delight in the fact that Jesus was an atheist......Harikrish.
 
Gilgamesh
#15
Only a fool would conclude anything about Jesus from writings. If he was an atheist, so what?

On this site it ie quite possible that some here believe that the moon is made of cheese.
 

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