Identity Politics


petros
+5
#31
Its international law. If your paperwork says F, you're an F. Filing for asylum is not the time or place for an emotional outburst.

It's only paperwork.
 
Serryah
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Its international law. If your paperwork says F, you're an F. Filing for asylum is not the time or place for an emotional outburst.

It's only paperwork.


Unless the paperwork of your previous country is wrong.


And if it's only paperwork what does it matter then to have the previous countries incorrect information?


Because it's not 'only paperwork', it is what sets you up with the government of that country you're going to. It's also a pain in the ass to change if you're Trans. It's one of those has to be done things, but in cases like this, why not get it right to begin with?

Or leave gender out of the issue if the person claiming is Trans until they have the supportive paperwork to give the proper gender? Or even a little * beside 'gender' to denote that the person who is listed as one gender will be changing that ASAP.


There are ways to amend things.


Trans people have to be patient though too; it's not going to all happen at once. Now that it's a known problem, it just needs to be fixed.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by petros View Post

Its international law. If your paperwork says F, you're an F. Filing for asylum is not the time or place for an emotional outburst.
It's only paperwork.

What international law is that?
 
Ron in Regina
+5
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

On one hand I agree, that in the end, you take what you can get just to get away from that kind of situation.

It sucks hard and yeah it might throw you into more emotional turmoil but at least you'll be in a place to get help for it and be safe.

But I do get where they're coming from and I do think things need to change so that situation doesn't have to continually happen.

I get where you're coming from too. Once someone decides they're rolling the dice on fleeing across the globe as a refugee (in some places it might be to a neighbouring country but in Canada's case with only one physically connected country, any real refugee would have to arrive here by boat or plane from elsewhere, or should have claimed refugee status in the US, or is refugee 'shopping' and should be sent back to the US if that's where they arrived from), to escape real persecution, this should be such a secondary matter or their a whiner and they're case should be reviewed very very closely.

There's always time to straighten out the bureaucracy once one is through the process and safe, but maybe I'm too bias & comfortable in my own skin to be able to put mentally myself in this other person's place. I don't think anyone is going to confuse me with being a woman, so if a bureaucrat thinks I need to be a woman on paper, it would appeal to my sense of humour until I got it straightened out, but I know who I am so I'm....not very.....empathetic....to this person's grievance in this situation.
Last edited by Ron in Regina; Jul 16th, 2020 at 09:12 PM..Reason: typo
 
Tecumsehsbones
+2
#35
Gender identity is surely as important to people as religion, and look how many people have acted in ways that were anything from "not in their apparent best interests" right on up to "bat-shit crazy" in fidelity to their chosen fairy tale?

Oddly, most Western countries claim that you have a fundamental right to practice your religion, and will defend your right to cling to the ol' rugged cross, or hammer, or star, or crescent, or funny squiggle right up to death (if you're White), then when you change, defend your right to your new fairy tale every bit as zealously.

But in those same countries, majorities or at least substantial minorities hold as a matter of truth as unequivocal as F=Gm1m2/r2 also insist that your gender depends on the crotch gear you were born with (even if you change it surgically and hormonally), that there are two and only two, and would cheerfully imprison, torture, or kill anybody who decides otherwise.

Go figure.
 
gerryh
+1
#36
Yup, cause having a cock or a cu nt means nothing. It all depends on what you feel like on any given day.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh View Post

Yup, cause having a cock or a cu nt means nothing. It all depends on what you feel like on any given day.

Nope, you are what is says you are on the paper.

It's international law, y'know.
 
Dixie Cup
+3
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

Unless the paperwork of your previous country is wrong.
And if it's only paperwork what does it matter then to have the previous countries incorrect information?
Because it's not 'only paperwork', it is what sets you up with the government of that country you're going to. It's also a pain in the ass to change if you're Trans. It's one of those has to be done things, but in cases like this, why not get it right to begin with?
Or leave gender out of the issue if the person claiming is Trans until they have the supportive paperwork to give the proper gender? Or even a little * beside 'gender' to denote that the person who is listed as one gender will be changing that ASAP.
There are ways to amend things.
Trans people have to be patient though too; it's not going to all happen at once. Now that it's a known problem, it just needs to be fixed.


The issue is that people are demanding everything IMMEDIATELY. Her temper tantrum should be saved as an emotion that's gotten out of hand He/she needs to ensure they're safe first, then make arrangements to change the documents. What's more important - paper work or safety? Get over herself and then get the paper work corrected.

Mind you, I don't know exactly how much "vetting" immigration does now-a-days but there's that too. But I think it's much to do about nothing - she can get the paperwork corrected and go on to live a nice, free (for now anyways) society where she can be who she truly is.
 
Dixie Cup
+3
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Gender identity is surely as important to people as religion, and look how many people have acted in ways that were anything from "not in their apparent best interests" right on up to "bat-shit crazy" in fidelity to their chosen fairy tale?
Oddly, most Western countries claim that you have a fundamental right to practice your religion, and will defend your right to cling to the ol' rugged cross, or hammer, or star, or crescent, or funny squiggle right up to death (if you're White), then when you change, defend your right to your new fairy tale every bit as zealously.
But in those same countries, majorities or at least substantial minorities hold as a matter of truth as unequivocal as F=Gm1m2/r2 also insist that your gender depends on the crotch gear you were born with (even if you change it surgically and hormonally), that there are two and only two, and would cheerfully imprison, torture, or kill anybody who decides otherwise.
Go figure.


Who knew - biology means absolutely nothing! Oookkkaaayyy!
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by Dixie Cup View Post

The issue is that people are demanding everything IMMEDIATELY. Her temper tantrum should be saved as an emotion that's gotten out of hand He/she needs to ensure they're safe first, then make arrangements to change the documents. What's more important - paper work or safety? Get over herself and then get the paper work corrected.
Mind you, I don't know exactly how much "vetting" immigration does now-a-days but there's that too. But I think it's much to do about nothing - she can get the paperwork corrected and go on to live a nice, free (for now anyways) society where she can be who she truly is.

Me thinks by arguing his/her gender up front would lend credence to the claim of refugee status for threat of life over gender preference once in then he/she can bring the wife over
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by Dixie Cup View Post

Who knew - biology means absolutely nothing! Oookkkaaayyy!

What an amazingly stupid statement.

Well done you.
 
Colour
#42
Left side:

National Socialism
Communism


Few Left:

Progressivism
Socialism


Centrism:

Fascism
Liberalism


Right Wing:

Racism
Monarchism
 
Colour
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

What international law is that?

Democracy is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. Who people are and how authority is shared among them are core issues for democratic theory, development and constitution. Some cornerstones of these issues are freedom of assembly and speech, inclusiveness and equality, membership, consent, voting, right to life and minority rights.

Generally, there are two types of democracy: direct and representative. In a direct democracy, the people directly deliberate and decide on legislature. In a representative democracy, the people elect representatives to deliberate and decide on legislature, such as in parliamentary or presidential democracy. Liquid democracy combines elements of these two basic types. However, the noun "democracy" has, over time, been modified by more than 3,500 adjectives which suggests that it may have types that can elude and elide this duality.

The most common day-to-day decision making approach of democracies has been the majority rule, though other decision making approaches like supermajority and consensus have been equally integral to democracies. They serve the crucial purpose of inclusiveness and broader legitimacy on sensitive issues, counterbalancing majoritarianism, and therefore mostly take precedence on a constitutional level.

In the common variant of liberal democracy, the powers of the majority are exercised within the framework of a representative democracy, but the constitution limits the majority and protects the minority, usually through the enjoyment by all of certain individual rights, e.g. freedom of speech, or freedom of association. Besides these general types of democracy, there have been a wealth of further types (see below). Republics, though often associated with democracy because of the shared principle of rule by consent of the governed, are not necessarily democracies, as republicanism does not specify how the people are to rule.

Democracy is a system of processing conflicts in which outcomes depend on what participants do, but no single force controls what occurs and its outcomes. The uncertainty of outcomes is inherent in democracy. Democracy makes all forces struggle repeatedly to realize their interests and devolves power from groups of people to sets of rules.[8] Western democracy, as distinct from that which existed in pre-modern societies, is generally considered to have originated in city-states such as Classical Athens and the Roman Republic, where various schemes and degrees of enfranchisement of the free male population were observed before the form disappeared in the West at the beginning of late antiquity. The English word dates back to the 16th century, from the older Middle French and Middle Latin equivalents.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#44
I'm not sure why you quoted my question with a fairly jejeune and only middlin' accurate description of another subject entirely, but I'll assume you had fun with it, so. . .
 
Colour
+1
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

I'm not sure why you quoted my question with a fairly jejeune and only middlin' accurate description of another subject entirely, but I'll assume you had fun with it, so. . .

Neo-Nazism (after 1945)

National Socialist Movement of Denmark (contemporary)
Iranian National Socialist Party, created in 1952 (pro-Hitler, antisemitic, anti-Arab, anti-Turk)
National Socialist Party of New Zealand (German-style Nazi, antisemitic)
National Socialist Movement of Norway (contemporary)
Russian National Socialist Party (Russian nationalist, fascist, anti-immigrant, promoting Orthodox Christian theocracy)
National Socialist Movement (UK, 1962) (British, founded in 1962)
National Socialist Action Party (British, founded in 1982)
National Socialist Movement (United Kingdom) (British, contemporary)
National Socialist League (United States) (American, gay, Aryan, pro-Hitler)
National Socialist Party of America (white, antisemitic, anti-black)
National Socialist Movement (United States) (American, contemporary)
National Socialist Party of Sweden (founded around 1990 or 2000, anti-communism)
 
Ron in Regina
+3
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by Serryah View Post

On one hand I agree, that in the end, you take what you can get just to get away from that kind of situation.
It sucks hard and yeah it might throw you into more emotional turmoil but at least you'll be in a place to get help for it and be safe.
But I do get where they're coming from and I do think things need to change so that situation doesn't have to continually happen.

I might just be too distant from the situation to look at it through your eyes or the eyes of this person in the OP story or whatever. I Do know a couple of people that have come to Canada as refugees, and when I know their stories and I compared to this one itís like comparing apples to oranges. One of my neighbours fled Vietnam with his mother as a child and ended up spending a decade in a refugee camp in Myanmar (use to be Burma) before eventually getting out and eventually landing in Canada. He told me a story about staring at a tree that overhangs the fence in the refugee camp for years until he was old enough to try and climb the fence to try and get some fruit off the tree through the Barbwire or whatever was on top of that fence (still a bit of a language barrier between us but we both like similar alcohol and we figure out what the other guyís saying, etc....), and though he did end up cut up and bleeding and on the ground after falling about 20 feet, he says that piece of fruit tasted so exquisite that he remembers it even now because they were always hungry in these camps.
I try to equate something like that to having somebody face bureaucracy and have the wrong box checked on a form... And itís hard to compare one story to the next and have an overly empathetic reaction to the person concerned with the wrong box being checked in their opinion compared to the person growing up in a refugee camp hungry all the time like my friend Troy. Itís not that Iím unsympathetic to the plight of this trans person having what in their opinion is the wrong box checked in order to get through the refugee process, iím just less sympathetic to their story than I am to Troyís I guess.
I donít mean to be a little things either by saying in their opinion having the wrong box checked etc....But that is the point of the debate being a difference of opinion between Customs or Immigration or CBSA or whomever & this Trans-person. Iím not seeing whoís right and whoís wrong, iím just saying itís hard to be overly empathetic to their situation compared to some of the other stories I know. I try to relate and put myself in that person situation, and if I was in that situation I would sell you T-shirts with my good mug on them at a discount.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by Colour View Post

Neo-Nazism (after 1945)
National Socialist Movement of Denmark (contemporary)
Iranian National Socialist Party, created in 1952 (pro-Hitler, antisemitic, anti-Arab, anti-Turk)
National Socialist Party of New Zealand (German-style Nazi, antisemitic)
National Socialist Movement of Norway (contemporary)
Russian National Socialist Party (Russian nationalist, fascist, anti-immigrant, promoting Orthodox Christian theocracy)
National Socialist Movement (UK, 1962) (British, founded in 1962)
National Socialist Action Party (British, founded in 1982)
National Socialist Movement (United Kingdom) (British, contemporary)
National Socialist League (United States) (American, gay, Aryan, pro-Hitler)
National Socialist Party of America (white, antisemitic, anti-black)
National Socialist Movement (United States) (American, contemporary)
National Socialist Party of Sweden (founded around 1990 or 2000, anti-communism)

Yep, still nothing to do with international law.
 
Colour
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Yep, still nothing to do with international law.

But it is in a short explain a policy that exists in Britain more than other white countries plus in Russia and communists and progressives are greater than the Nazis in Russia.

But small ten thousand numbers are Nazis in Russia.

The same in Sweden and Norway after New Zealand and America.

Also Germany and Denmark averaged less than Britain of world's Nazis.

Even British Nazis went down in rotation after the 2019 election.

At least triple downwards after the 2015's election.

Of the 2019 amount of 600,000's because only 600,000's voted Brexit Party of the 2019 election.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by Colour View Post

But it is in a short explain a policy that exists in Britain more than other white countries plus in Russia and communists and progressives are greater than the Nazis in Russia.
But small ten thousand numbers are Nazis in Russia.
The same in Sweden and Norway after New Zealand and America also Germany and Denmark averaged less than Britain of world's Nazis.
Even British Nazis went down in rotation after the 2019 election.
At least triple downwards of the 2019 amount of 600,000's British Nazis.
Only 600,000's voted Brexit Party of the 2019 election.

Actually, it is a short explain [sic] of the square root of sweet bugger-all.

Y'all have a real nice day now, hear?

Keep up the ESL classes.
 
Colour
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by Tecumsehsbones View Post

Actually, it is a short explain [sic] of the square root of sweet bugger-all.
Y'all have a real nice day now, hear?
Keep up the ESL classes.

I cheer for Bajen in Swedish football then I think that British are triple more Nazis of strenghten.
 
Serryah
+1
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina View Post

I might just be too distant from the situation to look at it through your eyes or the eyes of this person in the OP story or whatever. I Do know a couple of people that have come to Canada as refugees, and when I know their stories and I compared to this one itís like comparing apples to oranges. One of my neighbours fled Vietnam with his mother as a child and ended up spending a decade in a refugee camp in Myanmar (use to be Burma) before eventually getting out and eventually landing in Canada. He told me a story about staring at a tree that overhangs the fence in the refugee camp for years until he was old enough to try and climb the fence to try and get some fruit off the tree through the Barbwire or whatever was on top of that fence (still a bit of a language barrier between us but we both like similar alcohol and we figure out what the other guyís saying, etc....), and though he did end up cut up and bleeding and on the ground after falling about 20 feet, he says that piece of fruit tasted so exquisite that he remembers it even now because they were always hungry in these camps.
I try to equate something like that to having somebody face bureaucracy and have the wrong box checked on a form... And itís hard to compare one story to the next and have an overly empathetic reaction to the person concerned with the wrong box being checked in their opinion compared to the person growing up in a refugee camp hungry all the time like my friend Troy. Itís not that Iím unsympathetic to the plight of this trans person having what in their opinion is the wrong box checked in order to get through the refugee process, iím just less sympathetic to their story than I am to Troyís I guess.
I donít mean to be a little things either by saying in their opinion having the wrong box checked etc....But that is the point of the debate being a difference of opinion between Customs or Immigration or CBSA or whomever & this Trans-person. Iím not seeing whoís right and whoís wrong, iím just saying itís hard to be overly empathetic to their situation compared to some of the other stories I know. I try to relate and put myself in that person situation, and if I was in that situation I would sell you T-shirts with my good mug on them at a discount.


On a whole I do agree with you and I know it doesn't seem like much compared to some who have had hell happen to them, like your friend.


It's a difference between the physical and the mental, I think, between your friend and the trans person in this situation. But that doesn't mean one case is worse than the other, or is more deserving of sympathy. Both are fukin tragic that humans are treated like that - so horrible they have to flee their homes just to survive.


In the end I think that's what people end up forgetting in this kind of situation, and if they come to Canada to seek salvation then we should be treating them like the human beings they are, regardless of the reason they came.


I hope that makes sense?
 
Twin_Moose
+1
#52
He was looking to take advantage of prosecution against sexual orientation in our charter for refugee status, IMO
 
petros
+1
#53
Making a "Grand Entrance"? Oh come on, nobody in the community has been or ever will be flamboyant.

Can we see a video with CBSA? Its FOIA accessible.

Is there lots of "talk to the hand" and head bobbing?
 

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