PQ report suggests Montreal becoming too English


Praxius
Free Thinker
#1
PQ report suggests Montreal becoming too English - CTV News

Quote:

MONTREAL An attempt by the Parti Quebecois to raise the alarm about a dramatic increase in English speakers in Quebec was met with skepticism Wednesday amid concerns the party was greasing statistics to suit its political ends.

Pierre Curzi, a PQ member of the legislature, began leaking copies earlier this week of a report compiled by his office that argues English is becoming more appealing than French in the Montreal area.

The report predicts English could become the dominant language in Quebec's largest city by 2016, which Curzi says would have dire implications for French in the province due to Montreal's role as its economic and cultural engine.

"I want to make people aware of the portrait of the situation and to raise a debate about whether to accept this or not," said Curzi, a former actor who may be best known to Canadians for his role in the Oscar-winning film "The Barbarian Invasions."

Curzi's report, which will be made public only later this week, gathers recent Statistics Canada census figures with other data from a series of well-known demographers in the province.

A copy circulating in the media estimates Montreal will only be 43 per cent francophone in six years.

Quebec Culture Minister Christine St-Pierre acknowledges there exists an appeal to learning English, but she accused Curzi of stoking alarmism for political ends.

"They're speaking about a document that no one has seen," St-Pierre told Radio Canada. "It lacks seriousness."

One of Quebec's largest anglophone lobby groups said it was bemused by the reported findings of Curzi's study.

The Quebec Community Groups Network cited a number of recent statistics contradicting his prognosis, among them that more than 90 per cent of Montrealers use French regularly at work.

"The problem for us is that you can't separate the statistics from the political purpose behind it," said Robert Donnelly, the network's president.

"The whole point seems to be to stir up the pot."

Curzi's methodology centred on the language spoken at home rather than at work, taken from 2006 census figures. That, according to one Statistics Canada expert, may give an incomplete picture about the state of French in Montreal and the rest of the province.

"It doesn't really look at what's happening out there in the public sphere," said Jean-Pierre Corbeil, chief specialist of language statistics at Statistics Canada.

Corbeil, who had just read media reports about Curzi's findings and not the report itself, added that using only the mother tongue numbers would decrease the relative weight of French speakers.

Given the high numbers of allophones in Montreal who speak French at work or in social settings, this might give the impression French is worse off than it actually is.

Curzi has defended using the mother tongue variable by saying it was less complicated that way.

Corbeil also questioned using Montreal as a microcosm for larger trends in the rest of the province.

The Curzi report points out that more than 47,000 francophones left the island between 2001-2006, compared with only 6,740 anglophones.

"When there are fewer French speakers on the island, that accentuates problems in the public use of French," Curzi said.

But census figures suggest that while francophones may move to such off-island communities as Laval or Longueuil, they still work in the city.

To say the exodus of francophones from Montreal is a harbinger of a decline in French across Quebec is "a really quick conclusion that may skip some important steps," said Corbeil.

I bet if you did the same check for people all over Canada and how many use whatever language in the home, chances are English would drop in similar fashion.... and it doesn't say what other languages they all spoke in the home in Montreal, but it seems he's trying to spin them all as english..... what about immigrants, etc.?

And secondly, unless you plan on having all of your business dealt within Quebec and only with other french communities, you'd think increasing the amount of people who speak english would be a good thing.... since everywhere around Quebec, english is spoken the most.

Even so, just because more people might be speaking english more then french, that doesn't mean in anyways, that the French identity is being attacked or will suddenly vanish.

The remaining Acadian community in Nova Scotia seems to be doing quite well for themselves... as do those in New Brunswick who speak french... and none of them have to be so damn anal as those in Quebec seem to be.
 
Johnnny
No Party Affiliation
#2
The dramatic rise in english?

Pfft bunch of cry babies, i live in Sudbury and alot of folks here speak french as a first language but next to no english complain about them being french...... The make up like 60% of my city and native french speakers probally close to 40%. I guess we are more tolerant then quebecers here
 
CDNBear
#3
Regardless of the reports accuracy, this part is troubling...

Quote:

"I want to make people aware of the portrait of the situation and to raise a debate about whether to accept this or not,"

"Accept" what? A rise, real or imagined in the use of English in a free and democratic society?

This is just more proof that Quebec is not ready to be it's own country. The derogatory label Quebecistan is so richly deserved by these myopic Draconian morons.
 
EagleSmack
#4
I don't know too much about French Canadians...but I know they can hang drywall!

Here in Boston when I worked in the trades all of the Dry wall hangers were French Canadian. That is no exaggeration either. Every big job was loaded with French Canadians. They came mostly from Northern New Hampshire. I talked to one who spoke English and they all lived around the same area. He said they got up at 3AM and drove down to Boston, worked 10 or 12 hours a day, then banged out early on Friday to get back north.
 
wulfie68
No Party Affiliation
#5
Don't tell me people are surprised by more xenophobia and bigotry coming from the PQ...

Its a fact of life that people will adopt whatever language/culture/habits that make it easier to conduct business/work and provide for themselves and their families. Quebec gov'ts seem to be oblivious to this and instead seek to artificially preserve something that may not be worth saving (if it was worth the effort, people would do it without the gov't interference). I've seen this first hand in francophones who came out West to find work: they learned the language, worked hard at their jobs and became valued members of the communities they moved into.

If the Quebec gov't worried half as much about real issues as this language and culture crap maybe their economy would be something close to sustainable, maybe it wouldn't be one of the most indebted provinces in confederation, and maybe others would see something worthy of emulation, instead of seeing their people forced to migrate elsewhere to support themselves...
 
VanIsle
#6
If you worked my job and had countless people standing in front of you speaking in whatever language over a day, you would realize that numerous languages are spoken in this country all the time. We all know when we hear Japanese/Chinese/French and probably German being spoken. After that - for me at least, it's a guess. I have people where two or more of them are together and it's amazing how they rattle on in their language with me thinking they must not have a clue how to speak our language and then when it comes time to pay, they turn to me and speak perfect English! We are indeed a multicultural country.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#7
No big surprise there. Most Francophones don't want to end up in a situation where Quebec is the only place where they can get a job; and as a result learn English. The Allophones make absolutely sure that their children learn English for the same reason, and due to its low housing prices many Anglophones are moving to southwestern Quebec. In addition to that, the internet is primarily English, especially sites like Utube and the various social networking sites. Finally, mainstream media such as film and TV are dominated by English. To many young Francophones the language issue is become less and less relevant.

Essentially Quebec is a tiny island of French in a vast sea of English. Eventually French will be little more than a historical memory no matter how desperately Quebec nationalists try to preserve its culture.
 
Machjo
#8
Though this is written by a Japanese, it applies here too:

http://www.chinamediaresearch.net/vol4no1/6.pdf

There is a language class hierarchy in the world, with English-speakers being the least sensitive of it for the most part.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

Though this is written by a Japanese, it applies here too:

http://www.chinamediaresearch.net/vol4no1/6.pdf

There is a language class hierarchy in the world, with English-speakers being the least sensitive of it for the most part.


Interesting article. But I suspect the proposal of using Esperanto as an international language will get nowhere. Few people want to learn a language that is spoken only by a few thousand people.
 
Machjo
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

Interesting article. But I suspect the proposal of using Esperanto as an international language will get nowhere. Few people want to learn a language that is spoken only by a few thousand people.

Actually, it's estimated that anywhere from 2 to 10 million people speak it. It already has its own self-sustained publishing and music industries, and a number of governments, including those of Italy (http://www.internacialingvo.org/public/study.pdf), Hungary, Poland, and Croatia have already explicitly recognized it as an acceptable second language to fulfill high school second-language requirements; and the UK (Springboard... to Languages) and the US have no restrictions on what language can fulfill this requirement. Also, starting this past September, an elementary school in Halifax, NS has started experimenting with it as a propaedeutic language (http://www.springboard2languages.org..._rationale.pdf). Australian primary schools have been experimenting with it too.

And consider its position in mainland Chinese official circles:

http://www.china.com.cn/

You'll notice that Esperanto ranks among the 10 languages in which official Chinese government information is publicly broadcast. That's not bad considering that there are an estimated 56 million Persian speakers in the world, and only anywhere from 2 to 10 million Esperanto speakers, and yet Esperanto is included but not Persian.

If it can be done elsewhere, why not in Canada. And seeing that few English-speakers learn French well and few French speaking Canadians learn English well, why not exploit the propaedeutic value of Esperanto as it is being exploited in other countries?
 
bill barilko
#11
Someone always brings up Esperanto-and it's always good for a laugh.
 
eh1eh
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko View Post

Someone always brings up Esperanto-and it's always good for a laugh.


Ha. That never caught on for some reason.

Anyways, the illuminate have already chosen English so it doesn't matter.
 
YukonJack
Conservative
#13
"PQ report suggests Montreal becoming too English"


Big deal! This nothing but the usual dirt and crap from the treasoneous PQ, probably supported by their federal cousins the equally treasoneous BQ.

I live in Winnipeg and belong to a Senior Bowling Lague. Roughly 90% of the filks are French-speaking and some of them do not have the courtesy of speaking English, when people like myself are around.

Do I complain? No, because my mind is nowhere near small enough to take issue with something as trivial as that
 
AnnaG
#14
Esperanto? Yeah, that caught on like wildfire.
"Gee, we have about 4500 languages and dialects in the world that are commonly spoken with Mandarin, Hindi, Spanish, and English being spoken by ⅓ to of the people of Earth. Let's add another language."
"Hey, how about everyone develop their own language".

So Montrealers speak more English. Big deal. It wouldn't bother me if people in some town in BC spoke French, Italian, or Chinese or even Martian for all it matters.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post

"PQ report suggests Montreal becoming too English"


Big deal! This nothing but the usual dirt and crap from the treasoneous PQ, probably supported by their federal cousins the equally treasoneous BQ.

I live in Winnipeg and belong to a Senior Bowling Lague. Roughly 90% of the filks are French-speaking and some of them do not have the courtesy of speaking English, when people like myself are around.

Do I complain? No, because my mind is nowhere near small enough to take issue with something as trivial as that

I assume this post was meant to be facetious. 90%? Wouldn't it make more sense for you to be courteous enough to speak French?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister View Post

I assume this post was meant to be facetious. 90%? Wouldn't it make more sense for you to be courteous enough to speak French?

I wanna know whats a filk. How come there are so many filks speaking french and bowling in Windypeg?
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy View Post

I wanna know whats a filk. How come there are so many filks speaking french and bowling in Windypeg?

Keeps 'em away from the mosquito population.
 
Johnnny
No Party Affiliation
#18
esperanto ??????? pfft im not into those artificial languages anyways no matter how universal they are
 
El Barto
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack View Post

I don't know too much about French Canadians...but I know they can hang drywall!

Here in Boston when I worked in the trades all of the Dry wall hangers were French Canadian. That is no exaggeration either. Every big job was loaded with French Canadians. They came mostly from Northern New Hampshire. I talked to one who spoke English and they all lived around the same area. He said they got up at 3AM and drove down to Boston, worked 10 or 12 hours a day, then banged out early on Friday to get back north.

Those Quebecers that work outside of thier province are know to be hard workers. Thats what we did in the late 60's. I was a kid then...Moved to the states and my ol man worked in construction. Actually worked on the Christian science Auditorium.
My uncle did the dry wall in the states and was an incredible plasterer or mudder, but most that work in that field drink pepsi all day and drink at night
 
El Barto
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68 View Post

Don't tell me people are surprised by more xenophobia and bigotry coming from the PQ...

Its a fact of life that people will adopt whatever language/culture/habits that make it easier to conduct business/work and provide for themselves and their families. Quebec gov'ts seem to be oblivious to this and instead seek to artificially preserve something that may not be worth saving (if it was worth the effort, people would do it without the gov't interference). I've seen this first hand in francophones who came out West to find work: they learned the language, worked hard at their jobs and became valued members of the communities they moved into.

If the Quebec gov't worried half as much about real issues as this language and culture crap maybe their economy would be something close to sustainable, maybe it wouldn't be one of the most indebted provinces in confederation, and maybe others would see something worthy of emulation, instead of seeing their people forced to migrate elsewhere to support themselves...

Bang on!!!
The PQ created the bill 101 and thought they were ok but fell asleep at the wheel as they opened the doors to immigration other than French speaking....Come to think of it ....F, ucken French are annoying as hell especially the Parisians Anyways....Quebecers in general have a welfare mentality , Canadians too but it seems to be more pronounced here in my province. They expect the government to take care of everything. Oh and that they did. When the PQ came into power they had a bunch of nut cases and Overly confident dumb ass Intellectuals that screwed things up right royally. Bill 101 came out that took over bill 22 from the former Liberal party government. They did educational reforms that really laxed on education as most can't even speak their language properly and it was ok as they did want to stress the children
The PQ party has done more damage to the French language in this province then .... hell they really didn't help it at all .
You think it's scary now , wait till they get to run the province
 
asiancanadian
#21
Hi Guys,
I am struggling to find a job here in Montreal.. Seems like "they" care much more about the language than skills when they hire. I am a central asian guy who came to Canada 6 years ago. I love this country, its people and Canada's cultural diversity.
I like everything except some Quebecois' principles to like/dislike based on person's knowledge of French.
I lived in Ontario and had to move to Quebec to study at Concordia. I don't speak French and here in MTL it's really difficult to find a job if you don't speak English.
It's funny when I ask a question in English , some people answer in French. I am definitely going back to Ontario or other English speaking province. Sometimes I just don't feel welcome here. So sad but its my experience..
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
#22
Sorry you've had that experience. You do what you gotta do for yourself. If that
means packing your bags and heading out for someplace else that you're either
more comfortable, or better able to function in, then that's what you've got to do.
 
El Barto
#23
For those that are native quebecers will single out Montrealers , they tend to be a bit special from the rest of the province. My sympathies aisianCanadian
 
Machjo
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by asiancanadian View Post

Hi Guys,
I am struggling to find a job here in Montreal.. Seems like "they" care much more about the language than skills when they hire. I am a central asian guy who came to Canada 6 years ago. I love this country, its people and Canada's cultural diversity.
I like everything except some Quebecois' principles to like/dislike based on person's knowledge of French.
I lived in Ontario and had to move to Quebec to study at Concordia. I don't speak French and here in MTL it's really difficult to find a job if you don't speak English.
It's funny when I ask a question in English , some people answer in French. I am definitely going back to Ontario or other English speaking province. Sometimes I just don't feel welcome here. So sad but its my experience..

I can't answer for sure since I did not witness your experiences, but when I was in Montreal, I'd met some Quebecers who did not know English well. They were not many in number, but still, if I'd met some, then I'm sure there are others, and so employers want to be sure you can serve the odd French-speaking client who might not know English so well. Obviously they'll hire the French-speaker over the English-speaker all else being equal. And as for people answering in French, again, since some do not know English, are you sure they weren't the ones you'd run into? I know some will refuse to speak English, but there are also a few who genuinely don't know it among those living in the French-speaking suburbs, or those who'd recently moved in from Central Quebec. Again, they're not many in number,but enough to have an influence in that city. And let's face it, demographically Montreal is more French-speaking than English-speaking even if the majority is bilingual.
 
AnnaG
#25
I wonder when people will mature and be sensible about the language thing. If I was any good at learning languages, I'd love to speak a dozen fairly decently, including French (the Canadian dialect).
 
El Barto
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by AnnaG View Post

I wonder when people will mature and be sensible about the language thing. If I was any good at learning languages, I'd love to speak a dozen fairly decently, including French (the Canadian dialect).

Would love to give you personal dialect lessons *wink wink*