Why aren't immigrants welcome in Alberta, Canada?


DasFX
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by cdn_bc_ca

Quote: Originally Posted by DasFX

I'm the prodigy of two 1960's immigrants. I know what I'm talking about, I see it first hand. Bring it on. I see how immigrants were before when things were worse and how they are today when things are pretty damn good.

So in summary, evil begets evil?

So my question is, when does an immigrant stop being an immigrant or are they immgrants forever?

Just look at the meaning of the word, Immigrants are always immigrants. I mean I am not an immigrant cause I have not migrated from my country of birth. My parents will always be immigrants so long as they remain outside of India. I look at things very logically; I don't see the point in searching for hidden meaning. Really, you can look at it a various levels. Someone that moves to BC from Ontario is an immigrant to BC, they will never cease being so unless they move back to Ontario.

No hidden meaning, just using the definition of the word.

Now if I told this to my parents, they may get upset at first, they may take it as insinuating that they will never belong or that they will always be different, but really that isn't even close to what I said.
 
Dervish_Khan
#62
DasFx,
Greetings to you!

I am afraid, I do not agree with you. First of all, I never said that the Aryans(or whatever) are predisposed to display racist tendencies. You seem to have a very narrow-minded perception when it comes to interpreting my commments. Some white people, by virtue of their fair skin colour, have grown to antagonise other people such as the Africans, Asians, Natives of North America, etc..
Secondly, I believe you are so intent on assimilating yourself into the dominant "white" culture that you have come to a point of rejecting your own roots. This is a very sad and disturbing trend observed in 1st generation immigrants living in rural areas.
 
LadyC
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

But believe me, racism has its roots in Europe. Of course, by that I do not mean to say that people of European descent are racists. Europe has apparently learnt from its mistakes.
Nevertheless, history has shown that many of the documented cases of racism involved Europeans. In fact, the idea of race-based nation-states was introduced by the Europeans.
Who do you think enslaved the millions in Africa? Why do you think the hundreds and thounsds of Jews in Spain escaped persecution by seeking refuge in the Ottoman Empire? Who, in your knowledge, mass-murdered millions of Jews during the second world war? Who invaded North Africa and slaughtered millions of local people? Which anthropologists measured people's physical attributes and classified them as "white" and "non-white"? Who introduced racism to South Africa? It was the Europeans.

Quote: Originally Posted by Then later he

This again supports my initial belief that racism has its roots in Europe

Maybe Aryans aren't predisposed to display racist tendencies, but you seem to think they "invented" racism.
 
Dervish_Khan
#64
Quote:

Maybe Aryans aren't predisposed to display racist tendencies, but you seem to think they "invented" racism.

Precisely!
 
LadyC
#65
I am struck speechless.
 
DasFX
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

Some white people, by virtue of their fair skin colour, have grown to antagonise other people such as the Africans, Asians, Natives of North America, etc..

What does that mean? It makes no sense. Now I ask this next question with only curiosity, but if whites are so antagonistic of non whites, why would you bring yourself (and family) to Canada, a nation with a majority of Caucasians?

Quote: Originally Posted by Dervish_Khan

Secondly, I believe you are so intent on assimilating yourself into the dominant "white" culture that you have come to a point of rejecting your own roots. This is a very sad and disturbing trend observed in 1st generation immigrants living in rural areas.

You know, that is where so many immigrants go wrong in Canada. They perceive the culture here to be "white" when it is not. The culture is a mixture of many cultures, many which are non Caucasian. I don't have to assimilate, I was born here. This culture is my culture. How have I rejected my roots? I know where my family comes from, I know the traditions and culture, the language, and Iíve visited India and what not.

Why did you come to Canada? It must be something to do with the culture, yet when you see someone embrace it, you deem it to be treason. My parents came here knowing that they were moving to someone else's country for a chance at a better life. They realized that what makes this country so great is partly the culture and traditions here.

So rather than come here and try to set up a re-creation of India and seclude themselves in some "Brown" enclave, they kept and open mind and embraced all of Canada.

So don't you dare say that I've lost sight of my roots, I know my roots but I also have my future in mind and that future is here in Canada with my fellow Canadians.

And since when is a satellite city of 110,000 thousand to a city of 5 million people considered rural?
 
mrmom2
#67
We invented racism what a joke Its the kettle calling the pot black
 
DasFX
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by mrmom2

We invented racism what a joke Its the kettle calling the pot black

Now I'm not Caucasian, but to think that Europeans invented it, well that is something else. It goes against all recorded history. The Chinese, Indian and other non-white civilizations were executing racism while most of Europe was still running around in caves.

What explanation does he have of the racism that existed among North American Native tribes before Europeans discovered it? Algonquin vs. Iroquois was it racism or was it two warring nations? Inca vs. Mayan? There are enough biological and physiological differences between them to allow me to say it was racism to a certain degree.

Now, I'm not defending the horrors that have been committed by Europeans, against other (including other Europeans), but to say it is by virtue of the fair skin is illogical
 
no1important
#69
I remember in 1986 hiow Calgarians were burning toy and stuffed frogs in Barrels outside the Saddledome when they were playing Montreal in Stanley Cup finals, same thing again in 1989. It was on national television both times.

Plus another term I have not heard much in BC is "Eastern Bastards", and that was what was used to describe people from the east, when I had the unfortunate expeirence of living in Calgary for 18 months in the 80's.
 
DasFX
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

I remember in 1986 hiow Calgarians were burning toy and stuffed frogs in Barrels outside the Saddledome when they were playing Montreal in Stanley Cup finals, same thing again in 1989. It was on national television both times.

Plus another term I have not heard much in BC is "Eastern Bastards", and that was what was used to describe people from the east, when I had the unfortunate expeirence of living in Calgary for 18 months in the 80's.

Hey, you really can't take it seriously when the Stanley Cup is on the line. It is obvious that the Flames fans were just looking for something tangible to rile the Canadiens fans with. Perhaps frogs weren't the best choice, but I doubt they did it with any malicious intent. I mean, perhaps they should have dumped some Habitant soup down the drain? With a logo and name such as the "Canadiens" and/or "Habs", one really has to be creative to come up with something.

As for the Eastern Bastard, who cares, you should here the stuff folks say about the west. In the end, I don't think it really matters.
 
MarkMayner
#71
I personally have not noticed this racism, but I guess being the majority I wouldn't.

Defending Alberta though, all places generally have racism. The difference is some places "the east" have hidden racism which can be just as bad.

I guess Albertas might just be more straight-forward.
 
Cosmo
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by MarkMayner

I personally have not noticed this racism, but I guess being the majority I wouldn't.

Defending Alberta though, all places generally have racism. The difference is some places "the east" have hidden racism which can be just as bad.

I guess Albertas might just be more straight-forward.

Excellent observation, MarkMayner. As a "minority" member myself, I and my friends have been on the receiving end of discrimination -- from one end of the spectrum (physical attack) to the other (innuendo).

Alberta is certainly more forthright in its expression of intolerance than many other places I have observed first hand. In some ways it's actually easier to deal with ... if someone comes right out and disrespects me, I can at least defend against the attack. If the denigration is subtle, it's a whole lot tougher to address. It's a little scary, though, to know my next door neighbours wish me harm. And me without my pistol! Love those gun laws.

The climate in the whole of Canada is shifting but it glacially slow. The process of change does leave a mess in its wake, but I still think we're ahead of the game when it comes to making a move toward equality. You gotta remember that women have only had the vote since 1929 ... it's less than a century that we've been deemed real people. In terms of social change, though, the progress has been really quite quick. Let's hope the same trend continues for the rest of the minorities.

As a minority, I learned quickly that if I wanted to keep my own sanity intact I needed to find ways to counter the insidious forms of discrimination. Asking someone outright what they mean by comments like "those people" or whatever slight is presented, puts the insulter in the position of having to either admit bigotry or rescind the insult. Luckily for me, I have no problem being forthright but not everyone is as comfortable confronting the issue.

On the issue of racism (or any form of bigotry, for that matter) I have observed that we are ALL guilty to some degree. I don't think any single group invented it ... I think it's part of our human nature. By any definition, humans are predators. Predators have an ingrained desire to cull from their ranks anyone who is in any way different. Look at albino animals ... other animals of the same species will attack and kill it for being different. The trick, in my opinion, is for us to overcome that remaining vestige living in our reptillian brain stems. To rise above our very nature. It's what sets us apart from the rest of the animals.

Cdn_bc_ca posed an interesting question: So my question is, when does an immigrant stop being an immigrant or are they immgrants forever?

IMHO, one stops being an immigrant when one adopts the customs and way of life of their chosen country. That does not mean forgetting ones roots ... I am of Romanian Gypsy stock, and love my birth heritage. But first I am Canadian and my loyalty is to my country. When I choose to live within another culture, it is my job to adjust to their ways, not that culture's job to adjust to accommodate me. In my limited travels, I have gone out of my way to respect the mores and values of the place I am visiting. Because I am secure in who I am, that in no way changes or damages my view of myself.

I think an immigrant becomes a true Canadian when their loyalty for Canada is greater than their loyalty to their country of origin. That does not mean one cannot embrace their roots, only that if push came to shove, we have to see ourselves as Canadians first and immigrants second. If Canada went to war with Romania, my loyalty would be with Canada, despite the fact I still have relatives living in Romania. That in no way diminishes the pride I take in my heritage. It's just about being clear where loyalties lie. I think it's an inside job ... we all stop being immigrants or outsiders the moment we decide we belong here.
 
AirIntake
#73
I avoid the reserve because I'm a whitey and a whitey is instantly hated on the reserve. At first I thought this wasn't right, as all people in Canada should be able to live together, but then after reading this thread, I guess it's acceptable to be racist to avoid racism myself.
 
peapod
#74
Thats a lie! I have been to first nations reserves all over this island, I have been made more than welcome. Perhaps you carry your "whitey" attitude with you, hense the unwelcome.
 
Vanni Fucci
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by peapod

Thats a lie! I have been to first nations reserves all over this island, I have been made more than welcome. Perhaps you carry your "whitey" attitude with you, hense the unwelcome.

True enough Pea, I stayed with a friend of mine for a couple weeks on a reserve, and after the initial bewilderment at what I was doing there, the people I met soon came to realize that I was there, as I was everywhere, to have a good time...

...and a good time I did have...
 
DasFX
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by peapod

Thats a lie! I have been to first nations reserves all over this island, I have been made more than welcome. Perhaps you carry your "whitey" attitude with you, hense the unwelcome.

How can you say it is a lie? Did you go with AirIntake on his visits? Did you visit the same reservations? I do believe the Natives on Vancouver Island are quite distinct from the Natives elsewhere? How can you discount his personal experience based on your which occurs at different times and places?
 
AirIntake
#77
They couldn't have known my attitude, as I was in a car and not saying anything, getting glared at for no reason other than that I was white. My native friend doesn't feel comfortable going to reserves for the same reason, he gets glared at just because he's seen associating with whiteys. Perhaps I didn't stay long enough to get a true feeling of the place, but I didn't feel welcome enough in the first place to consider staying longer.
 
Jo Canadian
#78
I guess this link would belong here, it seems to fit the topic.

Attackers cut off Sikh teen's hair
 
no1important
#79
Thats a sad story and should not of happened but there is more than likely more to it, and we are only hearing one side of it.
 
Jay
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by Jo Canadian

I guess this link would belong here, it seems to fit the topic.

Attackers cut off Sikh teen's hair

How stupid is this, and how stupid do people have to be to say it...

"The RCMP said they're searching for the suspects in what could be a hate crime. "

When do groups of people assault other people....knock them down and cut all their hair off out of love or indifference?
 
no1important
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by Jo Canadian

I guess this link would belong here, it seems to fit the topic.

Attackers cut off Sikh teen's hair

Now the RCMP say the whole thing may be a hoax.

Here
 
Jo Canadian
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Quote: Originally Posted by Jo Canadian

I guess this link would belong here, it seems to fit the topic.

Attackers cut off Sikh teen's hair

Now the RCMP say the whole thing may be a hoax.

Here


Well that's an interesting turn of events, but only time will tell.
 
no1important
#83
I agree.

I wonder how much is never reported? But Both sides do it as well too. I guess some people can not get past their diferences. I dunno.

All I know for sure every ethnic race (caucasians included) have gangs and some have been getting out of hand latley, especially here in Surrey, where I live.
 
no1important
#84
Well it was a hoax after all. here

It is sad he had to resort to this, because he wanted short hair.
 
Dixie Cup
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post

Excellent observation, MarkMayner. As a "minority" member myself, I and my friends have been on the receiving end of discrimination -- from one end of the spectrum (physical attack) to the other (innuendo).

Alberta is certainly more forthright in its expression of intolerance than many other places I have observed first hand. In some ways it's actually easier to deal with ... if someone comes right out and disrespects me, I can at least defend against the attack. If the denigration is subtle, it's a whole lot tougher to address. It's a little scary, though, to know my next door neighbours wish me harm. And me without my pistol! Love those gun laws.

The climate in the whole of Canada is shifting but it glacially slow. The process of change does leave a mess in its wake, but I still think we're ahead of the game when it comes to making a move toward equality. You gotta remember that women have only had the vote since 1929 ... it's less than a century that we've been deemed real people. In terms of social change, though, the progress has been really quite quick. Let's hope the same trend continues for the rest of the minorities.

As a minority, I learned quickly that if I wanted to keep my own sanity intact I needed to find ways to counter the insidious forms of discrimination. Asking someone outright what they mean by comments like "those people" or whatever slight is presented, puts the insulter in the position of having to either admit bigotry or rescind the insult. Luckily for me, I have no problem being forthright but not everyone is as comfortable confronting the issue.

On the issue of racism (or any form of bigotry, for that matter) I have observed that we are ALL guilty to some degree. I don't think any single group invented it ... I think it's part of our human nature. By any definition, humans are predators. Predators have an ingrained desire to cull from their ranks anyone who is in any way different. Look at albino animals ... other animals of the same species will attack and kill it for being different. The trick, in my opinion, is for us to overcome that remaining vestige living in our reptillian brain stems. To rise above our very nature. It's what sets us apart from the rest of the animals.

Cdn_bc_ca posed an interesting question: So my question is, when does an immigrant stop being an immigrant or are they immgrants forever?

IMHO, one stops being an immigrant when one adopts the customs and way of life of their chosen country. That does not mean forgetting ones roots ... I am of Romanian Gypsy stock, and love my birth heritage. But first I am Canadian and my loyalty is to my country. When I choose to live within another culture, it is my job to adjust to their ways, not that culture's job to adjust to accommodate me. In my limited travels, I have gone out of my way to respect the mores and values of the place I am visiting. Because I am secure in who I am, that in no way changes or damages my view of myself.

I think an immigrant becomes a true Canadian when their loyalty for Canada is greater than their loyalty to their country of origin. That does not mean one cannot embrace their roots, only that if push came to shove, we have to see ourselves as Canadians first and immigrants second. If Canada went to war with Romania, my loyalty would be with Canada, despite the fact I still have relatives living in Romania. That in no way diminishes the pride I take in my heritage. It's just about being clear where loyalties lie. I think it's an inside job ... we all stop being immigrants or outsiders the moment we decide we belong here.


Well Said!!
 
#juan
#86
This is a topic that was started in 2005. The topic does still have relevance but a lot of the posters have moved on. I hope Cosmos still looks in but I haven't seen her posts on
the boards for a couple years now.
 
EagleSmack
#87
Went to the bottom of the bag to find this one!
 
Nuggler
#88
.........Holy 2005, batperson.

Times has changed, and now immigrants are really really really welcomed

All over Canada.

Yup.
 
SirJosephPorter
#89
Alberta has a reputation as a very conservative province. It is the Bible Belt of Canada, similar to deep south in USA. Thus legalization of gay marriage was greeted with intense hostility in Alberta, Both Klein and Harper had to promise to build a firewall around Alberta to keep gay marriage out (it was a phony promise, they didn’t mean it, but they had to do it to keep peace in Alberta). In this respect also Alberta is similar to the deep south.

Blacks have plenty of problems in the deep south (whites there fought a civil war rather than give up slavery). Alberta has many similarities to the Bible Belt in USA, so presumably it may be similar to places like Alabama, Mississippi or Georgia in this respect as well.
 
vinod1975
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by Nuggler View Post

.........Holy 2005, batperson.

Times has changed, and now immigrants are really really really welcomed

All over Canada.

Yup.

Thanks for all welcomes , I have many many friends and relative with very high skill sets [ specially Doctors and Core Engineers] have moved to Toronto and I am on List
 

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