Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
Straw man fallacy; I said no such thing.
I was refering to this comment:
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
...This conflict has been going on in various forms not since 1947, but since Old Testament times...
Which is not true. The Israel/Palestine conflict has only been going on since 1947, when Zionists started an ethnic cleansing war.
The roots of modern Zionism only go back to the late 1890's:
(German, "The State of the Jews") is a book written by Theodor Herzl and published in 1896 in Leipzig and Vienna by M. Breitenstein's Verlags-Buchhandlung. It is subtitled with "Versuch einer modernen Lösung der Judenfrage", "Proposal of a modern solution for the Jewish question", and originally called "Address to the Rothschilds" referring to the Rothschild family banking dynasty which was very influential in the realization of a Jewish state in Eretz Yisrael. It is considered one of the most important texts of early Zionism. As expressed in this book, Herzl envisioned the founding of a future independent Jewish state during the 20th century. He argued that the best way to avoid anti-Semitism in Europe was to create this independent Jewish state. Herzl, who had lived as a secular, largely assimilated Jew, was fluent in neither Hebrew nor Yiddish. His lack of contact with Jewish culture and intellectual currents, and his limited contact with Jews less assimilated than he prior to hitting upon the idea of a Jewish return to Zion, led him to imagine that popular Jewish support for a Jewish State elsewhere than in Palestine was conceivable. In Der Judenstaat, Herzl noted the possibility of a Jewish state in Argentina....
Der Judenstaat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I doubt Herzl and the majority of other early Zionists would approve of Israel in its current form.
Herzl wrote a book Altneuland, which describes what he envisioned:
...Herzl envisioned a Jewish state which combined both a modern Jewish culture with the best of the European heritage. Thus a Palace of Peace would be built in Jerusalem, arbitrating international disputes—but at the same time the Temple would be rebuilt, but on modern principles. He did not envision the Jewish inhabitants of the state being religious, but there is much respect for religion in the public sphere. Many languages are spoken—Hebrew is not the main tongue. Proponents of a Jewish cultural rebirth, such as
were critical of Altneuland.
In Altneuland Herzl did not foresee any conflict between Jews and Arabs. One of the main characters in Altneuland is a Haifa engineer, Reshid Bey, who is one of the leaders of the "New Society", is very grateful to his Jewish neighbors for improving the economic condition of Palestine and sees no cause for conflict. All non-Jews have equal rights, and an attempt by a fanatical rabbi to disenfranchise the non-Jewish citizens of their rights fails in the election which is the center of the main political plot of the novel. Herzl also envisioned the future Jewish state to be a "third way" between capitalism and socialism, with a developed welfare program and public ownership of the main natural resources and industry, agriculture and even trade organized on a cooperative basis. He called this mixed economic model "Mutualism", a term derived from French utopian socialist thinking. Women have equal voting rights - as they did have in the Zionist movement from the second Zionist Congress onwards.
Altneuland was written both for Jews and non-Jews: Herzl wanted to win over non-Jewish opinion for Zionism. When he was still thinking of Argentina as a possible venue for massive Jewish immigration, he mentioned in his diary he wrote that land was to be gently expropriated from the local population and they were to be worked across the border "unbemerkt" (surreptitiously), e.g. by refusing them employment. Herzl's draft of a charter for a Jewish-Ottoman Land Company (JOLC) gave the JOLC the right to obtain land in Palestine by giving its owners comparable land elsewhere in the Ottoman empire....
Theodor Herzl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If Zionists remained true to the Herzl's original vision, I'd support Zionism. Unfortunately, Herzl's utopian dream of a peaceful and tolerant Jewish state turned into a dystopian nightmare of violence, war and ethnic cleansing.
Since I don't support war crimes, crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing, I don't support Zionism in its current form. People who support Zionism today, effectively support war crimes, crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing.