Images separate people


china
#1
I just wonder why do we have images about ourselves? I think those images separate us. If you have an image of yourself as Canadian ,Polish or British or a Yankee and so on, that image not only distorts your observation of humanity, but it also separates you from others. And wherever there is separation, division, there must be conflict—as there is conflict going on all over the world, the Arab against the Israeli, the Muslim against the Hindu, one Christian church against another. National division and economic division all result from images, concepts, ideas, and the brain clings to these images. Just wonder .....Why?
 
L Gilbert
#2
It'd be boring otherwise.

Seriously it's a combination of genetics, conditioning, and various environmental factors as to why we are all different and view others as different.
 
china
#3
Quote:

Seriously it's a combination of genetics, conditioning, and various environmental factors as to why we are all different and view others as different.

Hm.... interesting .
 
Cliffy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

Hm.... interesting .

We are all just replicating DNA pretending to be something else. There is no separation except in our minds, what ever they are. If, as the Buddhist say, life is but a dream, then who is dreaming us?

As a friend once said, "of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the least.'
 
china
#5
Cliffy ,
Quote:

There is no separation except in our minds, what ever they are.

Agree . Now, what would be that place where there are no separations.?
 
Cliffy
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

Cliffy ,
Agree . Now, what would be that place where there are no separations.?

You may have to get down to the very basis of all material, the energy that animates everything from atomic structures to galaxies.

Tribal groups came close to living without separation. They worked as a unit for the benefit of the whole. The concept of the individual seems to be a cultural and religious development fostered by so called civilization.
 
china
#7
Cliffy
Quote:

You may have to get down to the very basis of all material, the energy that animates everything from atomic structures to galaxies.

Agree.How does one get "down to the very basis of all material".....
 
Cliffy
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

Cliffy
Agree.How does one get "down to the very basis of all material".....

That is a good question. We are so far out in left field that it would take centuries to undo the schism. As individuals we first have to be aware of the interconnectedness of all things and implement a way of being, of living as if everything we do affects every other being and thing on the planet. Easier said than done. I have been trying to reach that state for forty years. Civilization makes it very difficult to break away from the status quo.
 
L Gilbert
#9
You have to become nothing. It's obvious.
 
karrie
#10
China, you bring up a topic I've raised on here as well. Tribalism is one of the most destructive forces of humanity. We see in on the geographic level, the race level, the religious level, and a host of other defining factors. I have no clue how to end it, no clue how to not define oneself by such factors, but, one crucial thing I have tried to do is to question myself anytime I use the word 'them', or a variation on that. It's a trick of our vocabulary that sets us aside from 'them', that makes us distinct, when really truly, we're not.
 
VanIsle
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

I just wonder why do we have images about ourselves? I think those images separate us. If you have an image of yourself as Canadian ,Polish or British or a Yankee and so on, that image not only distorts your observation of humanity, but it also separates you from others. And wherever there is separation, division, there must be conflict—as there is conflict going on all over the world, the Arab against the Israeli, the Muslim against the Hindu, one Christian church against another. National division and economic division all result from images, concepts, ideas, and the brain clings to these images. Just wonder .....Why?

Why not! I have no problem with identifying myself as a Canadian and even as a British Columbian. I love my country and my province. That doesn't say that I think my country and my province is better or that much different than any other. Traditions and clothing are different but we all cry the same tears, we all bleed the same blood. Without some form of identity we would be nothing. We need to identify ourselves by our family, our friends, our culture and our country. We need the joy of learning of other countries and even other provinces within our own country because there is just so much to learn. If we were all exactly the same life would be pretty boring. We don't need to stop defining ourselves. We need to stop discriminating. They are not the same things. Just recently I was watching some show on TV and I truly thought they were showing pictures of an area of BC I once lived in and that I know well. It was a place somewhere in Europe. I don't remember where but I think it was Italy. I was shocked as I really thought it was only miles away as opposed to a an ocean away. Even the land is not that much different.
 
VanIsle
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

Cliffy ,
Agree . Now, what would be that place where there are no separations.?

There is nothing wrong with separations as long as you don't make them walls.
 
Amatullaah
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

China, you bring up a topic I've raised on here as well. Tribalism is one of the most destructive forces of humanity. We see in on the geographic level, the race level, the religious level, and a host of other defining factors. I have no clue how to end it, no clue how to not define oneself by such factors, but, one crucial thing I have tried to do is to question myself anytime I use the word 'them', or a variation on that. It's a trick of our vocabulary that sets us aside from 'them', that makes us distinct, when really truly, we're not.

But karrie, it's natural for people to identify and associate with certain people and not to do so with others. People who tend to agree on things, or rely on each other for survival tend to cluster together for support. Those who do not agree with them and may not necessarily help them survive (or may even be attempting to kill them) are seen outside a person's sphere of trust. Is it not natural then for a person to refer those they trust and rely on as "us", and those that they don't trust and don't rely on as "them"?
 
karrie
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Amatullaah View Post

But karrie, it's natural for people to identify and associate with certain people and not to do so with others. People who tend to agree on things, or rely on each other for survival tend to cluster together for support. Those who do not agree with them and may not necessarily help them survive (or may even be attempting to kill them) are seen outside a person's sphere of trust. Is it not natural then for a person to refer those they trust and rely on as "us", and those that they don't trust and don't rely on as "them"?

Natural? Yes. Helpful and good if we're not aware of it? No.

I don't think regionalism or nationalism or religions need to be done away with. What I do think is that we need to be aware of the fact that 'they' are humans. 'They' distrust us for all the same reasons. We're more similar than we are different. Humanity is the largest tribe of all, and sometimes we need a reminder that we can't always hide behind 'them and us'. That attitude is the sort that spawns videos like the one in the 'future of religion' thread, about how Muslims are going to take over the world by breeding like rabbits and overthrow our religious freedom.

To remind ourselves every so often that we need to try to think outside of that mentality is all I'm suggesting.
 
Machjo
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

I just wonder why do we have images about ourselves? I think those images separate us. If you have an image of yourself as Canadian ,Polish or British or a Yankee and so on, that image not only distorts your observation of humanity, but it also separates you from others. And wherever there is separation, division, there must be conflict—as there is conflict going on all over the world, the Arab against the Israeli, the Muslim against the Hindu, one Christian church against another. National division and economic division all result from images, concepts, ideas, and the brain clings to these images. Just wonder .....Why?

I agree. That's why Confucious taught 'all within the four seas are brothers', and the phrase tian xia yi jia (one family under heaven).

If we recognized the spirit of all the world's great religions, we'drecognize the oneness of mankind, that we're humans first, and whatever else second. unfortunately, the spirit of religion is dead to many today.
 
Machjo
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

It'd be boring otherwise.

Seriously it's a combination of genetics, conditioning, and various environmental factors as to why we are all different and view others as different.

Education. That's what it all boils down to in the end. Education. If the foundation stone of our education system were based on the principle of the oneness of mankind, we'd all accept it. But sinse it's based on nationalism, most are nationalist.
 
Machjo
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

You have to become nothing. It's obvious.

On the contary, we simply have to accept unity in diversity. We acknowledge our differences, but we also balance it with our recognition of our unity at the same time.
 
L Gilbert
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo View Post

On the contary, we simply have to accept unity in diversity. We acknowledge our differences, but we also balance it with our recognition of our unity at the same time.

lol Sorry, Machjo. I said that because I thought China would get a chuckle out of it. He made a thread a while back where in order to truly achieve peace or something (I can't remember exactly) we would have to strive to become nothing. lol

Anyway, we are all connected in some ways, but separate in others. It is simply part of being human. Our differences are what causes the separations. We should revel in both our connections and separations.
 
talloola
#19
To see all others as the same as oneself is easy, but you have to become 70 or 'whatever',when you begin to open the mind, let go of all of the 'stuff', and feel it.
I can watch a tribe in africa on tv, doing their thing each day, and totally relate to
how they are thinking and feeling, and 30 years ago I couldn't do that, as I only
wondered about them, and how different they are than I, and, how can they
enjoy living like that.
The same applys to many many places in the world, we are all the same, all
trying to achieve life each day, in a peaceful way.
I am them, and they are me.
I am proud of my heritage, and that is good, but I don't feel it 'as' something that
makes me different, but it does allow me to know that I 'belong' to a certain group,
as my heritage, that is comforting, it feels like home, and I'm sure the African
mother striving each day to make life good for her children, feels that connection
to her race too. Race differences are good, but culture and religious differences
can and do create divides and dislikes.
 
L Gilbert
#20
......... and politics.
 
talloola
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert View Post

......... and politics.

yeah, that too
 
china
#22
Quote:

lol Sorry, Machjo. I said that because I thought China would get a chuckle out of it.

Yes , I have , Thank You LG .

He made a thread a while back where in order to truly achieve peace or something (I can't remember exactly)
Quote:

we would have to strive to become nothing. lol

Now that's funny ;why would one have to strive to become something that one already is .........nothing.
 
Liberalman
#23
Images is a fabrication of ones mind that holds no truth or value
 
china
#24
Liberalman ,

Quote:

Images is a fabrication of ones mind that holds no truth or value

..........especially in all the bedrooms of the Nation .
 
L Gilbert
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman View Post

Images is a fabrication of ones mind that holds no truth or value

lol Like your comment?
 
darkbeaver
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by karrie View Post

Natural? Yes. Helpful and good if we're not aware of it? No.

I don't think regionalism or nationalism or religions need to be done away with. What I do think is that we need to be aware of the fact that 'they' are humans. 'They' distrust us for all the same reasons. We're more similar than we are different. Humanity is the largest tribe of all, and sometimes we need a reminder that we can't always hide behind 'them and us'. That attitude is the sort that spawns videos like the one in the 'future of religion' thread, about how Muslims are going to take over the world by breeding like rabbits and overthrow our religious freedom.

To remind ourselves every so often that we need to try to think outside of that mentality is all I'm suggesting.

Then you belong to the tribe or the union or the church that trys to think outside of the tribal metality, it is impossible not to make tribal connections , it is fundementally human. Like any institution it is rife with human problems. There is no escape except consolodation, voluntarily or otherwise. There is this already long established attempt, it has cost the lives of millions. Tribalism is not a problem and niether is a selfimage which is practically impossible to do without in this realm. As long as you are conscience you will have a selfimage, without it you have no frame of referance and you will be effectively lost in space..
Last edited by darkbeaver; May 9th, 2009 at 02:34 PM..
 
L Gilbert
#27
lmao My wife says tribadism is better.
 
Cliffy
#28
Everybody is involved in one form of tribe or another, whether it is a bowling team or political party, religion or sewing circle. Everyone is searching for a sense of community.
 
china
#29
VanIsle :

Quote:

Why not! I have no problem with identifying myself as a Canadian and even as a British Columbian. I love my country and my province. That doesn't say that I think my country and my province is better or that much different than any other.

Yeap ,or you could identify yourself as an offspring of mother X and even father X and explain how much you love your mother and father but under no circumstances your mother and father are much different than any other.
I think that's when the problem starts .
 
darkbeaver
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by china View Post

I just wonder why do we have images about ourselves? I think those images separate us. If you have an image of yourself as Canadian ,Polish or British or a Yankee and so on, that image not only distorts your observation of humanity, but it also separates you from others. And wherever there is separation, division, there must be conflict—as there is conflict going on all over the world, the Arab against the Israeli, the Muslim against the Hindu, one Christian church against another. National division and economic division all result from images, concepts, ideas, and the brain clings to these images. Just wonder .....Why?

The images do not separate us they bind us in empathy and compassion though the mistaken will tell you that diversity builds hate and mistrust, someone without image cannot be separated from anything without image you do not exist, your image is your existance. Your next line will be selling the removal of barriers to consolodation of the nations and the cultures into one efficient consumer product know as The New World Order. I have an image of a plastic guru of the new improved jumbo old world religion flogging the efficiencys of human homogenization. Is there a religion that has not barked that exact message while simultaneously manipulating those same inconvienient individualisms. You offer nothing but slavery and ruin if I understand your pitch.
Hey you used one race (Arab) three religions (Christian Muslim & Hindu)and one pseudo-nation (Israel) that makes no sence. So do you understand Israel to be a race or a religion or both? You can't change the image of israel, a master of divison and conflict and image, by begging the removal of barriers erected by Israel, only Israel could do that but it would disappear without the defining divisions, ah so it is just about the others.
 

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