Too many _______, not enough Indians


Locutus
#1
"EDMONTON - The jury trial for a 31-year-old man accused of fatally beating a man on an Edmonton LRT car in December 2012 has been delayed because the defence is concerned about a lack of diversity in the jury pool.


"Jury selection for the trial of Jeremy Newborn was derailed on Thursday when a family member claimed there was a lack of aboriginals in the randomly-drawn jury pool awaiting their name to be called…"






John Steven Hollar was assaulted on an LRT car on December 28, 2012. He died in hospital two days later.




EDMONTON - The jury trial for a 31-year-old man accused of fatally beating a man on an Edmonton LRT car in December 2012 has been delayed because the defence is concerned about a lack of diversity in the jury pool.

Jury selection for the trial of Jeremy Newborn was derailed on Thursday when a family member claimed there was a lack of aboriginals in the randomly-drawn jury pool awaiting their name to be called. At that point, defence lawyer Simon Renouf voiced his concerns to the court and the jury pool was sent home.

Renouf has now brought an application to court to challenge that jury pool.

“It’s a serious charge and the law in Canada requires that juries be representative and randomly selected,” Renouf said outside court Monday morning.

The odds of there being no aboriginal people in a random pool of Edmontonians is one out of 250,000, Renouf estimated.

John Steven Hollar was assaulted on an LRT car on December 28, 2012. He died in hospital two days later.

The case will return to court on Oct. 22, but the trial is expected to be delayed by at least several months.


Trial in LRT beating death delayed over lack of diversity in jury pool
 
CDNBear
+1
#2  Top Rated Post
I'm not exactly sure how to feel about that, but there is a long history to look back on, with regards to how Afro Americans were railroaded by all "white" juries, for years. Food for thought

And while we're on food for thought, news not in the news. Mr Hollar was no angel and when you threaten someones family, I can't say I would have let him off that train alive either.
 
Ludlow
#3
a fine dean martin tune
 
SLM
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I'm not exactly sure how to feel about that, but there is a long history to look back on, with regards to how Afro Americans were railroaded by all "white" juries, for years. Food for thought

Sometimes I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. By "capitulating" (for lack of a better term) to make race an issue within the jury, you ensure that race becomes an issue at trial but at the same time, race can be an issue all on it's own.

Quote:

And while we're on food for thought, news not in the news. Mr Hollar was no angel and when you threaten someones family, I can't say I would have let him off that train alive either.

They had history? I can't find much on an internet search other than "they may have known one another". What's the scoop?
 
CDNBear
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Sometimes I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. By "capitulating" (for lack of a better term) to make race an issue within the jury, you ensure that race becomes an issue at trial but at the same time, race can be an issue all on it's own.

It's kind of hard to separate race, when it's been a deeply engrained part of life for so many years. Especially in a place like Edmonton.

Quote:

They had history?

Oh ya. Hollar was not unknown to local law enforcement. He was facing a sentencing hearing that could have seen him doing upwards of 20 years in jail.

Quote:

I can't find much on an internet search other than "they may have known one another". What's the scoop?

People who don't want to go to jail for a real long time, sometimes roll. Sometimes they'll roll on people who aren't as much of a threat as others. Sometimes family members of the former, are worse than the latter.

What we get in the news, much like how Daddy Wambach is more responsible for his poor racist sons condition, than the young men who put the beat down on him, is sorely lacking.

It's more about targeting audiences instead of conveying the truth and all the facts.
 
SLM
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

It's kind of hard to separate race, when it's been a deeply engrained part of life for so many years. Especially in a place like Edmonton.

Yes, well that would be the part where race can be an issue all on it's own. It unfortunately can't be ignored without affecting the impartiality of the trial (for as much as impartiality is an actual thing as opposed to simply a principle).

Quote:

Oh ya. Hollar was not unknown to local law enforcement. He was facing a sentencing hearing that could have seen him doing upwards of 20 years in jail.

People who don't want to go to jail for a real long time, sometimes roll. Sometimes they'll roll on people who aren't as much of a threat as others. Sometimes family members of the former, are worse than the latter.

What we get in the news, much like how Daddy Wambach is more responsible for his poor racist sons condition, than the young men who put the beat down on him, is sorely lacking.

It's more about targeting audiences instead of conveying the truth and all the facts.

I would expect a competent defense attorney would raise all those points at trial, no?

I mean, we the public never get the full story anyway. Newpapers print what sells.
 
CDNBear
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by SLM View Post

Yes, well that would be the part where race can be an issue all on it's own. It unfortunately can't be ignored without affecting the impartiality of the trial (for as much as impartiality is an actual thing as opposed to simply a principle).

What I fear as a divide is increased by media hype and growing feeling of "Us vs Them", is that we'll see this time and time again, and justice will be the loser.

Quote:

I would expect a competent defense attorney would raise all those points at trial, no?

That doesn't mean it will be admissible, nor does it mean it won't be dismissed by a jury.

Is he guilty? I think so. Are there mitigating circumstances that should impact the charge and the sentencing? I think so.

Should that be public knowledge? I think so.

Quote:

I mean, we the public never get the full story anyway. Newpapers print what sells.

Oh so true.
 
petros
#8
I got as far as page two...

Alberta Courts > Resolution and Court Administration Services > Jury Duty > Eligibility Survey
 
Johnnny
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear View Post

I'm not exactly sure how to feel about that, but there is a long history to look back on, with regards to how Afro Americans were railroaded by all "white" juries, for years. Food for thought

Uncle Ruckus That Nigga Is Guilty - YouTube
 
CDNBear
#10
The Boondocks, lol
 
taxslave
#11
Using the logic in this case an accused murderer must have several convicted murderers in the jury pool. or the local crack dealer must have several clients in the pool.
 
CDNBear
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave View Post

Using the logic in this case an accused murderer must have several convicted murderers in the jury pool. or the local crack dealer must have several clients in the pool.

Not really. I do think there is a flaw to the argument, but just how flawed, I'm not quite sure.
 
Zipperfish
+1
#13
Quote:

“It’s a serious charge and the law in Canada requires that juries be
representative and randomly selected,” Renouf said outside court Monday
morning.

The laws of Canada may require that, but the laws of mathematics will not necessarily deliver a representative sample from a random sample.

Also, my calculation of the odds of a non-aboriginal jury of 12 (given a aboriginal demographic of about 5% in Edmonton, according to wiki) is around 2 or 3%.
 

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