Catholic Discussion

canadarocks said:

Does he, or anyone, have to merit your approval?

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The intended point was that because I believe in the salvation of all mankind, at one point in life one can realize one's salvation, otherwise, it comes at the end of this life.
Sanctus by his admittance, or say confession of who Christ is , indicating he has attained salvation.

But doesn't know it, for he thinks it must be merited.

I base my conclusions,(yes my conclusions, personal iterpretations, outside the church) on the payment made by our Lord and Savior's sacrifice to bridge that gap that existed between heaven and earth.

If we could earn our salvation, then there would be no need for Jesus to make any sacrifice at all.

As for the rest of you brothers and sisters, if you don't recognize that fact now and enjoy the joy of salvation while yet in the flesh, then it will be to your loss here.

But at your death, your spirit will recognize who Jesus is and your soul will be saved just the same.

That is why I am able to call all of you brothers and sisters because we are all purchased for the same price, and that being the Son of God.

That is why this verse carries allot of weight: Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

There was no greater love than what Jesus demonstrated on the way to the cross for all of us.

That is the price He paid for our salvation, sept we knaw it?

Well, I do, and I have life more abundantly.

Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

To God be the glory, the power forever Amen!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

marygaspe said:

True, but you made I think an important point, this idea of being connected with everyone. the sum of the parts as it were. this is interesting to me, for regardless of any external labels we have, we really are beating with one heart and breathing with one breath. In an idealistci fashion, I wish we were truly and really one world, one people.

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Lovely dream. What do we do to achieve it though? Maybe it begins with each person coming to a full awareness of themselves. That seems to be the hardest question we have to answer "who am I?" sometimes we spend forever trying to figure this out.

look3467 said:

The intended point was that because I believe in the salvation of all mankind, at one point in life one can realize one's salvation, otherwise, it comes at the end of this life.
Sanctus by his admittance, or say confession of who Christ is , indicating he has attained salvation.

But doesn't know it, for he thinks it must be merited.

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Well, how do we each know anything anyway? There has to be some kind of standards in everything or else we'd have anarchy and chaos, even spiritually.

L Gilbert said:

It isn't a point of wanting to or not. It's a faerie tale: the universe created me, not some invention of humans.

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How unique! Most of us came from human parents. Jesus came from god, and you came from the universe! Very neat!;-)

canadarocks said:

Well, how do we each know anything anyway? There has to be some kind of standards in everything or else we'd have anarchy and chaos, even spiritually.

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How do we know? There is a source by which all questions can be answered from: the bible.
The standard is the cross!

Crucifying the lusts of the flesh is in favor of: Gods blessings.

The creation of the flesh is what brought death in the first place.
Payment for that penalty has been paid.

The gift of life is free!

All one needs to know is having knowledge of it and accept the gift.

No work necessary.

After one learns about the gift, and accepts it, life is transformed.

The transformation of life then becomes the new standard for living justly.

The commandment or requirement of the new kingdom is love God and thy neighbor.

If we all learned to love, our hearts would seek to hurt no one regardless of who they are.

Change the heart of mankind, and see the world change.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

canadarocks said:

Lovely dream. What do we do to achieve it though? Maybe it begins with each person coming to a full awareness of themselves. That seems to be the hardest question we have to answer "who am I?" sometimes we spend forever trying to figure this out.

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"What do we do to achieve it though? Maybe it begins with each person coming to a full awareness of themselves.

That is absolutely correct! Awareness of ones condition in relation to God is where the start is.

There is a verse that details that fact: 1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

See, lets first judge ourselves as to who we are in Christ, then we can go out and proclaim this so great a salvation to the rest of the world as the Good News!

That is what I do, is proclaim the Good news so that as the verse says: "what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The end is that all should come to the knowledge of the good news. That all mankind know of the free gift and thereby be transformed into children of the most High.

Proclamation and not condemnation!

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

canadarocks said:

How unique! Most of us came from human parents. Jesus came from god, and you came from the universe! Very neat!;-)>>>Gilbert

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You are right on both counts! Me from man, Jesus from God.

Now, all we have to do to be from God as Jesus was, is to be born from God. How do we do that?

Accept Jesus as the Savior of your soul, trust and rely on Him, and wallah! You are born again.

Oh, for the skeptics: Works must show that you are indeed born again, for there must be a transformation of the heart. No, Gilbert, not the pump, but the spirits heart.

You do have one, otherwise how could you show any compassion for any hurting soul?

Surely the pumps knows only to pump, pump,pump and Lord forbid, it should stop. And if it should, just smile because Jesus will be there to greet you.

Too bad you can't enjoy Him now, for He is a very pleasant fellow, a good mate.

I can't count how many times He's been my help throughout my life.

I have surely been blessed above than what I think I am worth.

Peace>>>AJ:love9:

marygaspe said:

True, but you made I think an important point, this idea of being connected with everyone. the sum of the parts as it were. this is interesting to me, for regardless of any external labels we have, we really are beating with one heart and breathing with one breath. In an idealistci fashion, I wish we were truly and really one world, one people.

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"I wish we were truly and really one world, one people."

Only in spirit can that happen!

Thanks MickyDB your piece was inspirational like a nice warm blanket, that I can deal with, and Dexter Sinisters 3.5 to 4 billion year old primordial protoplasmic globule, both truths comforting to me. I will try to be a better protoplasmic globule.:wave:

marygaspe said:

Is anything really enough/ I mean, outside even religious defintions, are we ever really happy, regardless of our religious beliefs or non-beliefs? It seems that part of the living we do is the changing and the striving...otherwise perhaps we would achieve nothing ever.

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Marygaspe - Love that name you have chosen

Enough? I have no idea for anyone but myself.

If we did not have the bad times, we would not recognize the good times, nor would we be moved to change as you write...striving towards the better and more comforting...and in so doing improving our own lives as well as others'.

The other part - the simplicity of it to me is to recognize that we have a choice. We can go through life at warp speed never noticing anything in our desire to get to the goal we set for ourselves, or
we can meander along the way, noticing all of life's pleasures....taking part in them.... moving forward and keeping our lives simple enough we do not get buried in the "haves and have nots" of comparison with others.

I have known the wealthiest who are never satisfied with others, the poorest who have the truest, most beloved of friendships, the highly intelligent without a friend in the world because communication is so difficult with 'regular' people, and the happiest people (as I have written before) who have not been blessed with a normal intellect such as those with Down Syndrome... have the secret of a happy life every day.. because that is enough for them.

We have choices all the time.... I like to pick the simple ones because they use up less brain power and don't nag me into dissatisfaction with my lot in life. Maybe being born into a large family - the last in line - gave me a better perspective on patience and acceptance even when it hurts...because it
is still a choice I make now as an independent adult.

Sanctus has found his home.... many people do not arrive at that place until their elder years.... I think he is a fortunate man.

AndyF said:

I just watched "Lilies of the Field" last night starring Sidney Portier. There's a scene where Portier and a Mexican peasant are building a chapel for no pay. The peasant says he doesn't believe in God. Smith, Portier's character says "So why are you helping out here". He answers "Insurance".

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Obviously the screenplay was written by a believer. I would have said, "I'm helping because I want to".

Sure, your scenerio is perfectly safe if there isn't a creator that expects recognition and thanks for his bringing you,your tea,ma,pa in existance, and expects you to perform in a certain way, and doesn't have a uncomfortable eternal place where people who he doesn't approve of end up.

That's not religion, that's self preservation.

I'm not so self assured, even though I have my own unique thorns.

AndyF

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Well, there isn't one, so I have nothing else to do but carry on as if there weren't creators, imps, and other such conceptions.

look3467 said:

"I wish we were truly and really one world, one people."

Only in spirit can that happen!

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Yep. One spirit, one mind, or whatever you want to call it sounds just like my impression of what the JWs describe to me as the "afterlife": a buncha sheep wandering about smiling all the time and chewing their cuds. No thanks.

canadarocks said:

How unique! Most of us came from human parents. Jesus came from god, and you came from the universe! Very neat!;-)

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lol
Well, I meant that life in general came from the universe and not some human invention. I'm a part of the universe and so am a part of life in it. The universe has no human attributes: no jealousy, no hate, no love, no itches, no cravings ....... it just exists.

sanctus said:

Part of the process of life, clearly, is that we are constantly re-inventing ourselves as we proceed to who knows what end. If you have faith, you have belief in a particular sort of end. If not, perhaps the end itself is the goal?

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Or the goal is life itself and the end is just incidental.

sanctus said:

As do we perhaps? Don't we just exist in our particular part of the universe?

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Of course not. We are all only parts of each others' imaginations. lol

sanctus said:

Don't you think that we are connected as part of humanity? That we share common bonds, aspirations and dreams?

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Yup. But if we're all of one "spirit" (if you will), then there wouldn't be competition, contradiction, disagreement, different languages, etc. These aspects of being humans spark ideas, inventions, sports, etc.