Re: RE: Abortion
Yes, tibear, come and match wits with my 7th grade debating skills... :wink:
tibear said:
Yes, tibear, come and match wits with my 7th grade debating skills... :wink:
Abortion
- Thread starter Canadian Dragon
- Start date
Re: RE: Abortion
George Bush said something very similar concerning Terri Schiavo...
Yet as Governor of Texas he passed a law that allowed this...
...funny how no one really heard about this, what with the Terri Schiavo case so prominent in the media...also, I read nothing of pro-lifers storming the hospital to save the life of little Sun Hudson...
...so you see, your inane "cautioning on the side of life" rhetoric really means little to me...it's all lies and political grandstanding to further the Christian agenda...
tibear said:
George Bush said something very similar concerning Terri Schiavo...
Yet as Governor of Texas he passed a law that allowed this...
...funny how no one really heard about this, what with the Terri Schiavo case so prominent in the media...also, I read nothing of pro-lifers storming the hospital to save the life of little Sun Hudson...
...so you see, your inane "cautioning on the side of life" rhetoric really means little to me...it's all lies and political grandstanding to further the Christian agenda...
This is the case with a lot of "sides" on alot of issues. Imagine if we were to learn that cow's think in the abstract and with forethought? Would we allow this? No. Because then the manner in which we've treated cattle in the past would make us all evil and cruel.
The EU has some very strict animal welfare laws. Scientists have just recently decided that lobsters and crabs don't feel pain. this allows them to be treated in the manner that they've always been treated. If the scientists had erred on the side that they "might" feel pain that entire industry would collapse.
If this seems rambling it's because I'm at work with stacks of papers that need to be pushed around. Sorry. I'll try again tomorrow
tibear said:
Dammit tibear, you made me pass coffee through my nose... :lol:
...and I never said that all pro-lifers are Christian...but I'm willing to bet that the Christians, and most specifically the Catholics will comprise the majority of the pro-life movement...the rest of the movement is made up of sheep that can't form an opinion of their own...
Twila,
That's my whole point.
If science discovers that our current thoughts with regards to a particular subject are incorrect then as a society we should have an obligation to rethink our laws.
If as you say, a cow was proven to have self awareness and higher level of thought then we should rethink our current laws. Your example of the lobster and crabs is excellent because if they did feel pain then our laws should be changed to prevent this pain when they are killed.
However, it's strange how the same people who chastise the religous groups for not believing in the Theory of Evolution and the scientific proof of genetic influence on sexuality are the same group that refuse to acknowledge scientific data that shows when human life begins.
They generally jump up and down and try to shout the other side with charges of oppression.
If we want to base our laws on scientific proof, I'm all for it, but lets not pick and choose when to listen to science and when to ignore it.
That's my whole point.
If science discovers that our current thoughts with regards to a particular subject are incorrect then as a society we should have an obligation to rethink our laws.
If as you say, a cow was proven to have self awareness and higher level of thought then we should rethink our current laws. Your example of the lobster and crabs is excellent because if they did feel pain then our laws should be changed to prevent this pain when they are killed.
However, it's strange how the same people who chastise the religous groups for not believing in the Theory of Evolution and the scientific proof of genetic influence on sexuality are the same group that refuse to acknowledge scientific data that shows when human life begins.
They generally jump up and down and try to shout the other side with charges of oppression.
If we want to base our laws on scientific proof, I'm all for it, but lets not pick and choose when to listen to science and when to ignore it.
Vanni,
I must be wrong then when I read the above post from you. To me this specifically implies that the pro-life agenda is a Christian group.
Your assumptions are also incorrect that the majority are Catholic. Your probably partially right in that the majority of Catholic are pro-life but the same could be said for Mennonites, Hutterites, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. All of these religions teach that life is sacred and that life begins in the womb.
I think that if you truly educated yourself that Catholics would be in the minority of the pro-life movement.
Glad you enjoyed the "knob" jab. I have to admit I had a good chuckle as well!
I must be wrong then when I read the above post from you. To me this specifically implies that the pro-life agenda is a Christian group.
Your assumptions are also incorrect that the majority are Catholic. Your probably partially right in that the majority of Catholic are pro-life but the same could be said for Mennonites, Hutterites, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. All of these religions teach that life is sacred and that life begins in the womb.
I think that if you truly educated yourself that Catholics would be in the minority of the pro-life movement.
Glad you enjoyed the "knob" jab. I have to admit I had a good chuckle as well!
tibear, Catholics are a lot more prone to be pro life than other Christian denominations and certainly the other faiths you named [in particularly Buddhists] because by default all [Vatican] Catholics are obligated to follow the Pope/The Vatican's teachings...which are pro life legislatively.
A lot of other faiths will have the belief that life is sacred but no real obligation for their members to incorporate that politically; and thus you will find other denominations with a higher pro-choice membership because, well, they're not obligated to be pro life.
A lot of other faiths will have the belief that life is sacred but no real obligation for their members to incorporate that politically; and thus you will find other denominations with a higher pro-choice membership because, well, they're not obligated to be pro life.
Re: RE: Abortion
To refresh your memory Tibear:
Which was in response to....
I was not merely referring to Canada. I am talking globally. Before I left Canada I knew of several couples seeking to adopt outside of Canada because it was easier. Down here I have found the same thing. If you wish I'll google something up.
Okay in Canada
http://canadaswaitingkids.ca
& in the US
http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/profess/admin/stats/index.cfm
_________________
"Chicken ? What is that ... some kind of minimalist joke?"
That of course was this debate. Further on I refuted what you implied about orphanages.As I said... round and round... you're continually unable to refrute the arguments myself and others have presented. You expect us to follow your rules of debate but you break your own rules.
To refresh your memory Tibear:
tibear said:Zen,
Firstly, we're talking about Canada and I think we can agree there aren't any overflowing orphanages here.
Secondly, the reason why there are orphanages in other countries is because of the lack of resources or wars in those other countries. If the rich countries would share(again, goes against our new Holy Trinity of Me, Myself and I) we would have more than enough food and shelter for every family on this planet. But instead we force these people to live in misery and then blame them for having children. What an attitude!!
As for the pictures, I agree that they are very hard to look at and they are designed to be exactly that. Let me guess Cosmo, Pea, Zen, ... are you in favour of the animal rights people videotaping the annual seal-hunt?? Why are you in favour of those pictures but against the pro-life pictures?? Please explain to me the difference, I'd love to know the justification for showing the killing of an animal but not the killing of a child to put the issue "in the face" of the viewers.
As for the statistics of deaths from illegal or legal abortions, both can be questioned but there are many official sites that I've already listed that have substantiated the claim that more woman die today from abortions than died from "back alley" abortions.
Oh, and Zen, who are you referring to when you talk about anti-choice. Unless you want the pro-life side to start referring to the pro-abortion side as anti-life, please refer to your opponents as pro-life.
Which was in response to....
I was not merely referring to Canada. I am talking globally. Before I left Canada I knew of several couples seeking to adopt outside of Canada because it was easier. Down here I have found the same thing. If you wish I'll google something up.
Okay in Canada
http://canadaswaitingkids.ca
& in the US
http://naic.acf.hhs.gov/profess/admin/stats/index.cfm
_________________
"Chicken ? What is that ... some kind of minimalist joke?"
That of course was this debate. Further on I refuted what you implied about orphanages.As I said... round and round... you're continually unable to refrute the arguments myself and others have presented. You expect us to follow your rules of debate but you break your own rules.
We haven't had any orphanages in N.B. for decades,having switched to the foster home model for children without parents. One of the main reasons for this was all the documented cases of abuse in our orphanages.
US abortions hit record low since Roe v Wade: Rates fell 24% in 10 years, CDC report reveals
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ates-fell-24-10-years-CDC-report-reveals.html
Less of a terrible thing is good.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ates-fell-24-10-years-CDC-report-reveals.html
Less of a terrible thing is good.
WTF is wrong with your head?????????????????????
Idiot LIE-berals are angry worth some doctors who refuse........................................
to dirty their hands with abortion..............................
on any terms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abortion is ILLEGAL IN CANADA...........................
under any terms after 20 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And it is not a baby until after being born. The anti rights gang is out in full farce again.
Every mother I know has called it her baby even before it was born, I better tell them they were wrong.
And those mothers are free not to abort. The government says a baby isn't a person until it's born (hence all age-based rights go to date of birth, not date of conception), so it has no interest in what happens before then.
To me, they are no more than globs of human cells until they are viable (about 22 weeks), then they become people. Most (better than 9/10) abortions are done in the first 12 or 13 weeks and about 2/3 are done in the first 8 weeks.
The only men that should have ANY say in whether a woman has an abortion or not are the physician (if they are a male) and the father. The rest can butt out unless they want women to have a say in what men do with parts of their bodies.
It's also my opinion that life is extremely rare in the universe and shouldn't be wasted or taken for granted. But the quality of life is just as important as the life itself, so there are medical issues and other issues that should be considered.
The only men that should have ANY say in whether a woman has an abortion or not are the physician (if they are a male) and the father. The rest can butt out unless they want women to have a say in what men do with parts of their bodies.
It's also my opinion that life is extremely rare in the universe and shouldn't be wasted or taken for granted. But the quality of life is just as important as the life itself, so there are medical issues and other issues that should be considered.