UK Gov In Turmoil & Bexit Mess.

Blackleaf

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bu not all of ireland?
you voted for a Brexit that would allow part of Ireland to stay in he EU?
That was your understanding of what would happen?

What did you want me to do? Vote for a Brexit that would take the Republic of Ireland - a foreign country - out too?

The referendum only stipulated whether or not we want OUR country, the UK, to leave, and we voted to leave.

Are you less confused now?
 

Hoid

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Oct 15, 2017
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I'm not confused at all.

I'm the one who understands that you have no idea what Brexit is or might be.

And neither does anyone else.
 

Hoid

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https://www.theguardian.com/comment...erver-view-on-boris-johnson-sorry-brexit-deal


Opinion
Brexit
The Observer view on Boris Johnson’s sorry Brexit deal

Boris Johnson is a prime minister without a mandate. He has never faced an election and has lost every vote he has put to the House of Commons. Yet time and again he has proved his willingness to ride roughshod over parliament in order to get his way.

Yesterday was no different: MPs were disgracefully given just a few hours to scrutinise the terms of the most important decision the country has faced in decades. But he miscalculated badly. Parliament reasserted its sovereignty, voting to withhold approval of his EU deal until MPs have a chance to scrutinise the relevant legislation, effectively forcing him by law to request an extension from the EU.
 

Cliffy

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You're Egyptian, aren't you?


 

Blackleaf

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https://www.theguardian.com/comment...erver-view-on-boris-johnson-sorry-brexit-deal
Opinion
Brexit
The Observer view on Boris Johnson’s sorry Brexit deal
Boris Johnson is a prime minister without a mandate. He has never faced an election and has lost every vote he has put to the House of Commons. Yet time and again he has proved his willingness to ride roughshod over parliament in order to get his way.
Yesterday was no different: MPs were disgracefully given just a few hours to scrutinise the terms of the most important decision the country has faced in decades. But he miscalculated badly. Parliament reasserted its sovereignty, voting to withhold approval of his EU deal until MPs have a chance to scrutinise the relevant legislation, effectively forcing him by law to request an extension from the EU.

The Observer needs to research how Britain's Parliamentary democracy works.

Johnson is the leader of a party which won power democratically on a promise to deliver Brexit.

The Observer also neglects to mention that Johnson has TWICE sought a General Election, only to be denied one each time by the Remainer Parliament.

Boris wanted an election to be held on 15th October. The fact he hasn't faced an election isn't his fault. It's Parliament's - an undemocratic Remainer Parliament that's terrified of facing the wrath of the electorate.
 
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Serryah

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The Observer needs to research how Britain's Parliamentary democracy works.

Johnson is the leader of a party which won power democratically on a promise to deliver Brexit.

The Observer also neglects to mention that Johnson has TWICE sought a General Election, only to be denied one each time by the Remainer Parliament.


Wait... so if Parliament is Remainer...


Then how do you expect there to be Brexit? Why is it even in discussion?


If the leader of the Party that won Power promised Brexit... then... why don't you have Brexit yet?


Oh, wait... fascism and anti-democratic people...


I don't think it's the Observer that doesn't know how government works...
 

Hoid

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The Observer needs to research how Britain's Parliamentary democracy works.
Johnson is the leader of a party which won power democratically on a promise to deliver Brexit..

All he has to do is pass a vote then.
 

Blackleaf

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Wait... so if Parliament is Remainer...
Then how do you expect there to be Brexit? Why is it even in discussion?
If the leader of the Party that won Power promised Brexit... then... why don't you have Brexit yet?
Oh, wait... fascism and anti-democratic people...
I don't think it's the Observer that doesn't know how government works...

If we had a Brexiteer Parliament, Britain would have left on 29th March.

Brexit hasn't happened yet because two PMs have had their efforts scuppered by the Remainer Parliament.

Have you not been following events closely? Pay more attention.
 

Hoid

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Events?

Has there ever been an event?

As far as I can tell the Boris Fiasco is the same deal May tried to make months ago.
 

Blackleaf

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Events?
Has there ever been an event?
As far as I can tell the Boris Fiasco is the same deal May tried to make months ago.

Why's he a fiasco?

And the deal isn't the same as May's.

Maybe people should try doing some research before commenting.
 

Cliffy

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If we had a Brexiteer Parliament, Britain would have left on 29th March.

Brexit hasn't happened yet because two PMs have had their efforts scuppered by the Remainer Parliament.

Have you not been following events closely? Pay more attention.
Noisy monkey...
 

Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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If we had a Brexiteer Parliament, Britain would have left on 29th March.


That's true.


Brexit hasn't happened yet because two PMs have had their efforts scuppered by the Remainer Parliament.


But if it's a democracy, and your party in power is Pro Brexit, then why didn't anything pass?


Have you not been following events closely? Pay more attention.


I have; again, I think it's more of the fact that you don't get how democracy works.


Well he wanted a vote today on his deal - but that was ruined by the Remainer Parliament, so there wasn't one.

Do try to keep up.


If the Remainers, who don't have the leadership, ruined your vote then... you don't have democracy! Fascism! (please, please note the sarcasm)


Why's he a fiasco?

And the deal isn't the same as May's.

Maybe people should try doing some research before commenting.


The deal IS similar enough to May's that people that are for Brexit not only made such comments, but the Man of Brexit himself, Nigel, said it shouldn't be voted for.


So perhaps... take your own advice?
 

Ocean Breeze

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Parliament votes to withhold full approval of Brexit deal, delaying moment of reckoning



The humiliating defeat, however, did not deal a fatal blow to the withdrawal agreement British Prime Minister Boris Johnson negotiated in Brussels. Johnson said he planned to press ahead and seek approval of his Brexit deal in the coming week.

source: WAPO
 

Blackleaf

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But if it's a democracy, and your party in power is Pro Brexit, then why didn't anything pass?

Because we have a Remainer Parliament.
I have; again, I think it's more of the fact that you don't get how democracy works.

Democracy is when you vote in a referendum and that vote is obeyed by our servants in Parliament.
If the Remainers, who don't have the leadership, ruined your vote then... you don't have democracy! Fascism!

Correct. That's what I've been pointing out for ages. You're a bit slow on the uptake, aren't you?
The deal IS similar enough to May's that people that are for Brexit not only made such comments, but the Man of Brexit himself, Nigel, said it shouldn't be voted for.

Not all Brexiteers are against the deal.

All Remainers are against it, though - because, obviously, Remainers don't want a deal.
 

Serryah

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Because we have a Remainer Parliament.


Then BoJo is a Remainer and his party in power is Remainer?



Democracy is when you vote in a referendum and that vote is obeyed by our servants in Parliament.


Democracy is also the freedom to protest that vote because citizens feel that referendum was not appropriate for whatever reasons and there were enough inconsistencies that it should be put to a re-vote.



Correct. That's what I've been pointing out for ages. You're a bit slow on the uptake, aren't you?


Evidently so are you, because... Sarcasm?



Not all Brexiteers are against the deal.


Enough of them, and important ones at that, to call for a No vote on it. What about their dissenting voices against Brexit, are they suddenly Fascist now? Is Nigel fascist cause he said don't vote for it?



All Remainers are against it, though - because, obviously, Remainers don't want a deal.


And for the ones elected to Parliament, that's how THEIR constituents voted, Democratically, for them to do.


You're really having a difficult time getting this, aren't you?
 

Blackleaf

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TONY PARSONS Still these dullards in the Commons vote for more dithering, delay and damage to our economy

COMMENT
Tony Parsons
20 Oct 2019
The Sun on Sunday

THEY really don’t get it, do they?

Our MPs increasingly resemble those moronic Extinction Rebellion activists who looned on top of a Tube train in London’s rush hour.

See them cavort and preen! See them faff and fart about!

See the witless prats kick the Brexit can down the road one more time!

Like commuters prevented from going to work, out in the real world millions glare up at their stupid, self-indulgent antics, wanting nothing more than to get on with our lives.

And still these democratically-elected dullards vote for more dithering, delay and unimaginable damage to our economy.

All that stuff about simply wanting to prevent No Deal?

Lies, lies and more lies. They lie to us all the time. One day there will be a mighty reckoning for all their mealy-mouthed lies. But not on Saturday.

There is a great deal on the table. On Saturday, MPs defecated on the table. Classy!

NATIONAL PARALYSIS

Saturday was the chance for MPs to get down from the roof of the stalled Tube train that is Brexit.

Saturday was the day to put the country out of its misery.

Saturday was a chance to end the national paralysis.

Here at long last, shining like a heavenly light, was an exit door out of purgatory. Finally, after all these wretched years, there was an opportunity to get Brexit done.

And the House of Commons blew it. Once more, they placed Parliament above the people. We will never forgive or forget this treachery.

They had a chance to end the divisions that have divided friends, colleagues and family.

To stop our country stumbling like a drooling zombie and to start walking tall and strong as an open, optimistic free-trading global nation.

And oh yes — a chance to honour the result of a referendum that produced the largest vote for anything ever in the oldest democracy in the world.

And they voted for more faffing about. More paralysis. More zombie. How dare they?

Because for the very first time, here was a Brexit that was actually worthy of the name. For all of Theresa May’s hard work, honourable intentions and humiliations she was forced to endure, she never offered a Brexit that was worth having.

Theresa May brought back a Brexit in name only, a Brexit that would have reduced us to a colony, a Brexit that would have effectively kept the UK within the EU while silencing our voice.

But Boris Johnson offered a real Brexit deal and oh, how they squirmed on Saturday, all those eye-swivelling Remaniacs who have fibbed for so long that all they ever wanted was to prevent No Deal.

And they have the nerve to call Boris a liar!

Those democracy-deniers, who dismiss 17.4million of their countrymen and women as thick racist bigots, never looked so woefully out of touch with the mood of the nation as they did on Saturday.

BRITAIN WANT BORIS'S DEAL

Business wants to back Boris’s deal! Workers want it! The head of the Bank of England wants it! Sun readers want it! Figures as wildly diverse as Stuart Rose, who chaired the Remain campaign, and Arron Banks, founder of the hardcore Leave.EU campaign, all want it!

And still they couldn’t bring themselves to do it.

Common sense screamed that there is no better Brexit than the one that was on offer on Saturday.

And still they could not summon the common sense, the common decency, to back this Prime Minister.

But make no mistake, there was far more than Brexit on the line. By blocking the Boris deal, the damage to our democracy has been immeasurable.

But it is not Boris Johnson who will be blamed for this insult. It is not Boris Johnson and his increasingly united Tories who will be punished when Jeremy Corbyn finally stops wetting his incontinence pants and summons the courage for a General Election.

THWARTED AND FRUSTRATED

For too long, the largest vote for anything in British history had been thwarted and frustrated at every turn.

So Saturday was no real surprise.

They have sought to block Brexit with the propaganda of Project Fear.

They have tried to thwart Brexit in the courts.

They have tried to block Brexit by smearing this Prime Minister.

Saturday was just the latest roadblock. Frustrating but, hey, no big deal.

The 17.4million has not gone away. And Brexit will not go away.

And neither will this tousle-haired Prime Minister.

Is the message finally getting through? WE WANT THIS THING OVER.

Saturday was time to move on. They kicked Brexit in the shins. But do the fools really think they killed it?

BREXIT BREAKERS

The DUP, who believe the Boris deal would cut them off from the rest of the UK, have done the Union no favour by siding with Remainers.

The DUP are denying the realities of geography.

Northern Ireland shares a border with the Republic of Ireland. If there is to be no border on the island of Ireland then common sense dictates that there has to be a border SOMEWHERE.

The Boris solution — sticking an invisible border somewhere in the Irish sea — seems ingenious.

It allows free trade to flow in Ireland while allowing Northern Ireland to benefit from the future free trade deals struck around the world by the UK.

If they were of a naturally sunnier disposition, the DUP might even believe they were getting the best of both worlds.

And you couldn’t help reflecting that the socially conservative DUP are very happy to be separate from mainland Britain when it suits them on gay rights, abortion and same sex marriage. Nothing in recent years has weakened the union like the DUP’s thunder-faced opposition to the Brexit that Boris Johnson offered.

For this was the real deal.

And all those who defied it — because they can see no further than the end of their own prejudices, because they care about their career more than their country, because they were afraid of being kneecapped by John McDonnell, because they simply can’t accept Brexit — were woefully out of touch with the mood of our nation.

INSTITUIONAL TREACHERY

It turns the stomach that MPs have scorned this wonderful chance to get Brexit done. But Saturday’s lost battle just makes winning the war all the more inevitable. When the opposition work up the guts to face a General Election, Saturday’s institutional treachery guarantees Boris a landslide.

Brexit now has an historic inevitability about it.

In the end we have no choice but to leave the EU — whatever the cost in friendships, family ties and gold, whatever it does to what Boris Johnson calls the “awesome foursome” of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Because the EU dream of ever-closer union will never be the aspiration of the British.

Once David Cameron had called the referendum, the oldest democracy in the world was bound to honour its result.

Brexit will happen because Brexit has to happen.

This country will never be just another state in a federal Europe.

And ultimately this country will never ignore a democratic vote, or tell its people to have another referendum because they got the answer wrong the first time.

The political pygmies in Westminster have slowed Brexit. But they will never stop it.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10173243/dullard-mp-brexit-delay-damage/
 

Hoid

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I thought the backstop was a no no

So they go through all this bullshit only to cave in
 

Blackleaf

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Then BoJo is a Remainer and his party in power is Remainer?
Democracy is also the freedom to protest that vote because citizens feel that referendum was not appropriate for whatever reasons and there were enough inconsistencies that it should be put to a re-vote.
Evidently so are you, because... Sarcasm?
Enough of them, and important ones at that, to call for a No vote on it. What about their dissenting voices against Brexit, are they suddenly Fascist now? Is Nigel fascist cause he said don't vote for it?
And for the ones elected to Parliament, that's how THEIR constituents voted, Democratically, for them to do.
You're really having a difficult time getting this, aren't you?

How many times have I pointed out to you that most MPs are Remainers despite 84% of them having been elected on mandates to deliver Brexit?

84% of the UK's constituencies voted MPs on a manifesto to deliver Brexit.

Most MPs are Remainers MPs of Leave constituencies who are breaking the promise - to deliver Brexit - that they were elected for.

Of the 650 constituencies, 406 voted Leave. Had the referendum been a General Election, Leave would have won in a huge landslide.

And it means that there are hundreds of Remainer MPs who face being booted out by their constituents in the next election because they are not honouring what they were elected to do - deliver Brexit.

You seem to have a hard time grasping this, even though it's simple.

I'll say again: 84% of MPs were elected to deliver Brexit - yet most MPs are breaking the election promise and are trying to scupper Brexit.

Is that finally clear?