Over a Dozen Dead in California Bar Shooting

Mowich

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
16,649
998
113
75
Eagle Creek
White_Unifier said:
If the victims were armed, they could have prevented it. I'd like to propose a revision to the amendment. Instead of a right to bear arms, how about an obligation to do so? Besides, it would seem that that constitution right is makes it a practical obligation anyway, so might as well just write the practical reality into the constitution.
Click to expand...

Are you out of your mind? Why would you arm a bunch of partying kids? Stop for a moment and picture what it would have been like in that bar. It was packed. The kids were drinking and celebrating. Once it registered with them that someone was shooting at them, they were terrified and panicking. Most of them had no idea where the shots were coming from. Now, put a gun in each of their hands and imagine what would happen.
 
White_Unifier

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
Mowich said:
Are you out of your mind? Why would you arm a bunch of partying kids? Stop for a moment and picture what it would have been like in that bar. It was packed. The kids were drinking and celebrating. Once it registered with them that someone was shooting at them, they were terrified and panicking. Most of them had no idea where the shots were coming from. Now, put a gun in each of their hands and imagine what would happen.
Click to expand...

There's a high probability that the original shooter would end up among the dead. Not a guarantee of course, but given the casualty rate that would cause, it's fair to say that the shooter would be taking a big risk to walk into that kind of firecracker. :)
 
Tecumsehsbones

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,567
7,076
113
Washington DC
Mowich said:
Are you out of your mind? Why would you arm a bunch of partying kids? Stop for a moment and picture what it would have been like in that bar. It was packed. The kids were drinking and celebrating. Once it registered with them that someone was shooting at them, they were terrified and panicking. Most of them had no idea where the shots were coming from. Now, put a gun in each of their hands and imagine what would happen.
Click to expand...
"You know my position on arming morons, Ollie. You arm one, you gotta arm 'em all. Otherwise it isn't good sport."
-- Judge Flatt, Nobody's Fool
 
spaminator

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
35,817
3,031
113
Country music fan who survived Vegas massacre killed in California bar shooting
Associated Press
Published:
November 9, 2018
Updated:
November 9, 2018 7:02 PM EST
Telemachus "Tel" Orfanos is pictured in a Facebook photo. (Facebook)
THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — Tel Orfanos lived through the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history only to lose his life in another one less than 10 minutes from his home barely a year later, a tragic coincidence that has devastated his friends and family.
The 27-year-old Navy veteran was among at least several survivors of last year’s Las Vegas massacre who were at the Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks when a gunman stormed in and killed 12 people late Wednesday. While the others became two-time survivors, Orfanos died.
“He survived Vegas, where a lot more people died than this. It’s just unreal,” his friend Aliza Thomas said Friday. “It’s not fair.”
Thomas, who has known Orfanos since they were in high school, said her friend didn’t talk much about his experience in Vegas. Orfanos liked to focus on the positive.
“He was always such a happy person,” she said.
Orfanos’ mother, Susan Schmidt-Orfanos, was shaking with rage and grief when she spoke about how her son was unable to survive two mass killings.
“Here are my words: I want gun control,” Schmidt-Orfanos told The Associated Press. “I don’t want prayers. I don’t want thoughts.”
She said she wanted Congress “to pass gun control so no one else has a child that doesn’t come home.”
Dani Merrill, who survived both Vegas and Borderline, was among mourners at a packed theatre Thursday honouring Orfanos and the others who lost their lives in the shooting at the bar.
“I’m super upset that it happened in our home, and I feel awful for the families that have to go through this,” said Merrill, the exhaustion evident in her eyes.
“I didn’t sleep,” she explained. “It’s hard to sleep after these kinds of things. You don’t know how to feel.”
Brendan Kelly, a 22-year-old Marine, also survived Vegas and was at the Borderline bar when Wednesday’s shooting happened.
“I already didn’t wish it on anybody to begin with for the first time,” Kelly said outside his home in Thousand Oaks. “The second time around doesn’t get any easier.”
Kelly said he was dancing with his friends when the bullets began flying.
“The chills go up your spine. You don’t think it’s real — again,” he said.
He said he threw two of his friends to the floor and covered them with his body. Then he got a look at the shooter and the terror unfolding and decided they needed to escape.
Kelly said he dragged one woman out a back emergency exit and then, using his belt, T-shirt and Marine training, applied a tourniquet to his friend’s bleeding arm. Two of his friends were killed in the shooting.
In Las Vegas and Thousand Oaks, country music fans were the victims. Borderline was having a weekly country night and the Vegas shooter targeted a crowd of country fans gathered for the Route 91 Harvest Festival.
Kelly, who has a large tattoo on his left arm memorializing the Las Vegas shooting, said that Borderline had become a safe haven for dozens of Vegas survivors and it was common for many of them to hang out there together.
“It is our home,” he said.
A few weeks after the Vegas shooting, the bar held a benefit concert for five people from the area who were killed, and now-eerie social media posts show a number of survivors holding up a “Route 91” sign inside the bar at a six-month anniversary event.
Kelly said living through Vegas changed his life and doesn’t know how a second mass shooting will affect him down the road.
“Everywhere I go, everything I do is affected,” he said. “I don’t sit in a room with my back to the door. You’re always picking up on social cues. You’re always overanalyzing people, trying to figure out if something were to go down, ’What would I do?”’
Kelly said he’ll be looking to God for comfort in the coming weeks and months.
“I know that, being a religious person, that God is never going to give me anything more than I can handle,” he said. “I’m here for a reason.”
‘Odd,’ volatile killer ex-Marine passed mental health assessment
Graphic video: Gunshots heard inside California bar shooting
http://torontosun.com/news/world/co...as-massacre-killed-in-california-bar-shooting
 
petros

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,297
11,386
113
Low Earth Orbit
White_Unifier said:
Agreed. Until 10% of the population starts to shoot people, we're far, far away from the 50% mark. It's a small minority.
Click to expand...
With methamphetamine use skyrocketing so is violence. Meth is everywhere in NorAm. Even in fly in communities in the middle of butt f-ck nowhere there are jib rats scurrying around stealing everything in sight to buy more.

I'd love to know the stats on how many of the shooters are Jib rats.

ERs and looney bins are brimming with amphetamine induced psychosis cases. Hospital security has gone from fat old guys to ex-cops and ex-military with 10X the numbers.

It won't be long before they are armed or become police forces all their own.

Winterpig cops are drawing a correlation. Why isn't the MSM and anti-gun crowd aware of this epidemic?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4394260/...cted-to-rise-in-meth-use-say-winnipeg-police/

In the past two weeks, police responded to more than one firearms related incident a day — and the Winnipeg Police Service blames the rise in meth use with the rise in violent gun crime.

“It’s concerning for the public and the city at large, we’ve got people out with firearms,” said Const. Rob Carver.

In a 24-hour-period between Aug. 14 and 15, officers responded to five separate incidents involving firearms. Although the crimes were separate, it’s believed drugs were involved in some way for all of them, said Carver.

“This is what we’re facing on a daily basis. I think the point here is not the individual incidents, but kind of an overview of what is happening in the city, mostly fueled by methamphetamine, and then leading to violence, and in these cases firearms incidents.”

“Not every firearm we see is a real firearm, some are replica, but our officers don’t know that, which means we’re going into a situation where there is a probability that firearms are going to get used, possibly by our own officers.”

Compared to five years ago, Carver said there’s been a huge increase in the presence of meth in the city, and policing it is tying up officers across the city.
 
Last edited:
White_Unifier

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
petros said:
With methamphetamine use skyrocketing so is violence. Meth is everywhere in NorAm. Even in fly in communities in the middle of butt f-ck nowhere there are jib rats scurrying around stealing everything in sight to buy more.
I'd love to know the stats on how many of the shooters are Jib rats.
ERs and looney bins are brimming with amphetamine induced psychosis cases. Hospital security has gone from fat old guys to ex-cops and ex-military with 10X the numbers.
It won't be long before they are armed or become police forces all their own.
Winterpig cops are drawing a correlation. Why isn't the MSM and anti-gun crowd aware of this epidemic?
https://globalnews.ca/news/4394260/...cted-to-rise-in-meth-use-say-winnipeg-police/
In the past two weeks, police responded to more than one firearms related incident a day — and the Winnipeg Police Service blames the rise in meth use with the rise in violent gun crime.
“It’s concerning for the public and the city at large, we’ve got people out with firearms,” said Const. Rob Carver.
In a 24-hour-period between Aug. 14 and 15, officers responded to five separate incidents involving firearms. Although the crimes were separate, it’s believed drugs were involved in some way for all of them, said Carver.
“This is what we’re facing on a daily basis. I think the point here is not the individual incidents, but kind of an overview of what is happening in the city, mostly fueled by methamphetamine, and then leading to violence, and in these cases firearms incidents.”
“Not every firearm we see is a real firearm, some are replica, but our officers don’t know that, which means we’re going into a situation where there is a probability that firearms are going to get used, possibly by our own officers.”
Compared to five years ago, Carver said there’s been a huge increase in the presence of meth in the city, and policing it is tying up officers across the city.
Click to expand...

This is where I think we can learn from Singapore. Singapore has among the lowest crime rates in the world, but that's because it actually cares about its people and protects them from traffickers unlike Trudeau who wants the government to take a share of the drug-pushing profits.


That is what caring about the well being of the people looks like.
 
Walter

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,843
92
48
White_Unifier said:
This is where I think we can learn from Singapore. Singapore has among the lowest crime rates in the world, but that's because it actually cares about its people and protects them from traffickers unlike Trudeau who wants the government to take a share of the drug-pushing profits.
That is what caring about the well being of the people looks like.
Click to expand...
Not allowed to spit gum on the streets in Singapore.
 
H

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
20,408
3
36
Angry white guy shooting up country music fans in a bar stops to post to instagram:

"It's too bad I won't get to see all the illogical and pathetic reasons people will put in my mouth as to why I did it," the military veteran said in the post. "Fact is I had no reason to do it, and I just thought....(exploitive), life is boring so why not?" Long posted, according to ABC News and Buzzfeed.

Three minutes later Long posted, "I hope people call me insane (two smiley face emojiis) would that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah... I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is 'hopes and prayers'...or 'keep you in my thoughts'."

He added, "Every time...and wonder why these keep happening... --(two smiley face emojis).
 
taxslave

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
petros said:
With methamphetamine use skyrocketing so is violence. Meth is everywhere in NorAm. Even in fly in communities in the middle of butt f-ck nowhere there are jib rats scurrying around stealing everything in sight to buy more.
I'd love to know the stats on how many of the shooters are Jib rats.
ERs and looney bins are brimming with amphetamine induced psychosis cases. Hospital security has gone from fat old guys to ex-cops and ex-military with 10X the numbers.
It won't be long before they are armed or become police forces all their own.
Winterpig cops are drawing a correlation. Why isn't the MSM and anti-gun crowd aware of this epidemic?
https://globalnews.ca/news/4394260/...cted-to-rise-in-meth-use-say-winnipeg-police/
In the past two weeks, police responded to more than one firearms related incident a day — and the Winnipeg Police Service blames the rise in meth use with the rise in violent gun crime.
“It’s concerning for the public and the city at large, we’ve got people out with firearms,” said Const. Rob Carver.
In a 24-hour-period between Aug. 14 and 15, officers responded to five separate incidents involving firearms. Although the crimes were separate, it’s believed drugs were involved in some way for all of them, said Carver.
“This is what we’re facing on a daily basis. I think the point here is not the individual incidents, but kind of an overview of what is happening in the city, mostly fueled by methamphetamine, and then leading to violence, and in these cases firearms incidents.”
“Not every firearm we see is a real firearm, some are replica, but our officers don’t know that, which means we’re going into a situation where there is a probability that firearms are going to get used, possibly by our own officers.”
Compared to five years ago, Carver said there’s been a huge increase in the presence of meth in the city, and policing it is tying up officers across the city.
Click to expand...
If a jib rat got hold of a gun the two most likely scenarios are he would shoot himsef or he would sell the gun before figuring out how to use it.
 
spaminator

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
35,817
3,031
113
Slain deputy in California bar shooting killed by friendly fire
Associated Press
Published:
December 7, 2018
Updated:
December 7, 2018 10:02 PM EST
In this Nov. 15, 2018 file photo the flag draped casket of Ventura County Sheriff Sgt. Ron Helus arrives on stage for a memorial service for Helus at Calvary Community Church in Westlake Village, Calif. Al Seib / AP
THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — As terrified people scrambled out of broken windows, screaming and bleeding and fleeing a mass shooting inside a California bar, Sgt. Ron Helus and a highway patrolman decided to try to stop the gunman, running in together with assault-style rifles to what turned out to be an ambush.
Almost immediately inside the dark and smoky bar, the gunman fired on the officers, hitting Helus five times. They retreated and returned fire.
What happened next is every officer’s worst nightmare: One of the patrolman’s bullets hit his fellow policeman, piercing his heart and killing him.
California bar shooter had more than 150 bullets left
California gunman was a ‘ticking time bomb’: Ex-coach
Gunman who killed 12 died from self-inflicted gunshot
That Helus was killed by friendly fire emerged for the first time at a sombre news conference Friday, exactly one month since 28-year-old Ian David Long attacked country-music lovers at the Borderline Bar and Grill in the Los Angeles suburb of Thousand Oaks, killing 12 and wounding 22 others.
Long, who wasn’t hit by either officer’s gunfire, fatally shot himself after the firefight.
Officials didn’t have much else to update about the investigation Friday, nothing more on the motive or the exact timeline of events — just the news that broke all their hearts, most of all that of the patrolman, who learned of the terrible mistake for the first time Thursday.
“I delivered the message to him … He had no clue it was coming,” said L.D. Maples, chief of the California Highway Patrol’s coastal division. “It surprised all of us. He’s devastated.”
The patrolman was only identified as a nine-year veteran of the department. He is on leave.
“We’re trying to take care of him right now,” Maples said.
Helus was wearing a bulletproof vest when he was shot, but officials did not say where the bullet entered his body. His wounds from Long’s handgun were serious, but potentially survivable, including two that hit Helus on the edge of his vest, said Christopher Young, the county’s chief medical examiner.
Most body armour worn by police officers in the United States can be pierced by bullets from an assault rifle, Ventura County Sheriff Bill Ayub said.
Stronger armour is available, often at an officer’s own expense, but many don’t like it, he said, as it can be heavy and cause fatigue.
The finding that Helus was killed by another lawman did not diminish the heroism shown by both men, and no one is to blame but the gunman himself, Ayub said.
“He went there with a plan and a purpose and that was to take innocent lives,” Ayub said. “The burden lies solely with him, not with those who tried to save lives.”
He called the situation unavoidable.
“This was a dynamic, chaotic event that led to a very brief but furious gunbattle between the killer and the lawmen,” he said. “Sgt. Helus and the CHP officer both knowingly and willingly went into what can only be described as a combat situation, risking their own lives to save others … They were ambushed almost immediately.”
Long threw smoke grenades into the bar, obstructing what employees and patrons could see before he opened fire. He used a flashlight with a laser sight attached to his .45-calibre semi-automatic pistol as he fired.
Panicked revellers ran for the doors, dived under tables and piled on top of each other in an effort to dodge the gunfire. Others ran for their lives through other exits or broke through windows and jumped out, injuring themselves in the flight.
Long, a Marine veteran, took a tactical position and lay in wait for the officers.
Helus, a 29-year veteran of the department, was close to retirement when he was killed. He is survived by a wife and son.
http://torontosun.com/news/crime/slain-deputy-in-california-bar-shooting-killed-by-friendly-fire
 
C

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
37,070
6
36
Wait 'til some cops blow a few armed kindergarten teachers away as they "take out" the first armed suspects that they encounter in a school shooting, some day soon.

MAGA!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom