Open military to non citizens?

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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The cut had to be made, the advances made in the program propelled the US into supersonic.


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No it was election fever and cost over runs and a conviction that missiles were the way of the future......



The Arrow was an excellent plane- notably superior to the its Yankee competition- the upgraded Sabre F- 86


However to reach FULL potential the Arrow needed the Iroquois engines that were under development- with the usual cost over runs that attend the design and building of a record setting machine!


Canada was becoming embroiled in the Korean war, with the added bonus of rapidly expanding Soviet nuclear threats.


Cdns sent to Korean went with Lee-Enfield rifles- a slightly shorter barrelled and lighter version of the BOLT ACTION Lee Enfield their grand fathers carried up Vimy Ridge in 1917!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Of course all other armies carried assault rifles and modern automatic weapons.........which left Cdn soldiers trying to beg, borrow, steal- or buy modern weapons from the Yankees IN KOREA!!!!!!


Cdn tactics while on patrol in Korea involved making sure that when contact with an enemy occurred- all the Cdns with modern weapons would run to the front of the line- spray everything with their assault rifles- while the guys with bolt action rifles headed swiftly for the rear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Isnt it nice to know that life in the Cdn military has not changed much in a century!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Anyway- in order to get the govt books back in the black after LIE-beral Mackenzie King gave away the store- CUTS had to be made some place- and the Arrow was gone!!!!!!!!!!!


Killing the Arrow pleased both Yankees and Cdn LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


With the Arrow gone- U.S. airforce was able to sell a pile of Sabres around the world .....................


And LIE-berals were happy because we so swiftly shed our attempt at any real defense of Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Virtue signalling LIE-berals enjoy that double standard- that we Cdns are a peaceful bunch- with no need for a military - simply because we HIDE behind the Yankees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For some reason LIE-berals DO NOT see this position- with fearful Cdns pressed up against stalwart Yankee asses as being hypocritical or humiliating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And incidentally the ONLY reason the Arrow was designed in Canada was because Britain was bankrupt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A.V. Roe aircraft makers in Britain LOST a lot of good designers and engineers to immigration in the years after 1945!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Britain was so broke that food rationing there continued - to some degree- until 1954!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So a lot of A.V. Roe workers headed off to the bright lights of Toronto- work with the Cdn subsidiary- Avro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


For those who are curious- the worlds first jet aircraft flew in 1939!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Its just too bad the Brits were so hard pressed that the Gloster aircraft co. could not expand on their design!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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Good example that show Canada is not even allowed to design it's own defense.
Question: What naval vessel is not hampered by surface conditions? Answer: Subs, if we can't buy the kind we need, and we can't, we build them and small un-manned ones on high alert 24/7 could keep the north watch enough that bears and seals were tracked in real-time. There is the motivation for electric motor R&D along with controllers and remote-driving as well as computer aided in the 'shipping channels'. Today a Russian Black Hole sub could probably come and go from the Hudson Bay after dropping off the load of missiles.
The US has said they will still patrol the Black Sea but they will not be going into the sea that is behind Crimea, no need to wonder why.
So, what kind of submarines do you think that we need (besides more of them?) Did you know that, almost simultaneously, we had two submarines out on extended patrols this year, thosands of miles from our own coasts?

HMCS Chicoutimi (the one that had the fire) patrolled the far Western Pacific for just shy of 200 days, this spring.

http://www.canada.ca/en/department-...-after-six-month-asia-pacific-deployment.html

HMCS Windsor spent five months patrolling the Mediterranean at the same time.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-submarine-hmcs-windsor-returns-to-halifax-1.4714499

Most Canadians haven't the first clue. Advanced diesel boats like ours are greatly repected for their absolutely silent running capabilies. Nuclear boats are like brass marching bands and subs like ours are used for hunting nuclear subs under water. The antisubmarine forces have great respect for submaries that can vanish to the point where the US Navy is seriously debating whether they should get back into the diesel boat business because of the threat that they pose. Even old rustbuckets like the ones that the North Koreans operate are a real threat to them and advanced diesel boats like the ones that Canada, the Australians, Japanese, Dutch, Swedes and Germans operate are the real deal. We just need twice or thrice the number.
 

Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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Good example that show Canada is not even allowed to design it's own defense.
Question: What naval vessel is not hampered by surface conditions? Answer: Subs, if we can't buy the kind we need, and we can't, we build them and small un-manned ones on high alert 24/7 could keep the north watch enough that bears and seals were tracked in real-time. There is the motivation for electric motor R&D along with controllers and remote-driving as well as computer aided in the 'shipping channels'. Today a Russian Black Hole sub could probably come and go from the Hudson Bay after dropping off the load of missiles.
The US has said they will still patrol the Black Sea but they will not be going into the sea that is behind Crimea, no need to wonder why.

So built at the Irving yard is not a Canadian design?
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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So built at the Irving yard is not a Canadian design?
It's a basic Danish design modified for the RCN by Canadian Naval Architects.

We are going to do that again with the new, about-to-be-chosen "Surface Combattant" replacements for our old 280 Destroyers and current 330 Frigates. Designing warships is an exitremely complex task, these days and we build them so infeprequently now that we literally have to relearn it, perhaps at the cost of mamy billions $$ more and the risk of producing done thing that is not cutting edge enough. (I'm betting that we end up with the jnew British Type 26 design but it's not in the bag, yet
)

Even the Americans are considering buying a foreign design to replace that part of their really aging surface fleet. Specialist designers may do a better job. The Americans always have sturdy vessels of that sort but they are never cutting edge, exactly. The big experiment that they have going now is with the "littoral" classes of warships being launched right now but the jury is still out as to whether they are sea dogs or just plain dogs.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
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Good example that show Canada is not even allowed to design it's own defense.
Question: What naval vessel is not hampered by surface conditions? Answer: Subs, if we can't buy the kind we need, and we can't, we build them and small un-manned ones on high alert 24/7 could keep the north watch enough that bears and seals were tracked in real-time. There is the motivation for electric motor R&D along with controllers and remote-driving as well as computer aided in the 'shipping channels'. Today a Russian Black Hole sub could probably come and go from the Hudson Bay after dropping off the load of missiles.


The US has said they will still patrol the Black Sea but they will not be going into the sea that is behind Crimea, no need to wonder why.


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HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MHz rants in ignorance as usual!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The "sea behind Crimea" that MHz rants about is RUSSIAN TERRITORIAL WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yankees will no more patrol that "sea" than Russians would "patrol" Chesapeake Bay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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Troll ...you're hardly worthy of even that.


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Curious Cdn is one of that slimy, slippery brigade of LIE-berals and latter day Quislings who want to sell out Canada to third world dictators- preferably dictators who support the World Wide Caliphate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Curious Cdn has been spouting some nonsense about RCN warships and I have chosen to respond. As always, my comments are presented in brackets):

Curious says: It's a basic Danish design modified for the RCN by Canadian Naval Architects.

(He is suggesting we are using an off the shelf standard design- and so far- this is logical- why design an entirely new hull when there are existing hulls available? The LIE-beral Devil is in the details! LIE-berals DO NOT want to waste their gravy on our military- LIE-berals are following the Pierre Trudeau path to TOTAL CDN DISARMAMENT!)

(The real challenge for warship designers is fitting all the electronic gear into the vessel! The fuel for missiles is often toxic and the crew must be shielded! Electronic gear must be shielded from static electricity! And of course the gear must be easy to get at for any needed repairs- whether from normal wear and tear or from enemy action!)

(It is notable that LIE-berals HAVE MANAGED to get the first UNARMED Arctic Patrol vessel completed! LIE-berals LIKE things that are UNARMED and best suited to search and rescue roles! Sadly, LIE-berals do not like warships- and the ones ordered by Harper govt ARE YEARS BEHIND SCHEDULE!!!!!!!!!)

(It is alleged that the reason for the warship delays relates to frequent changes in the type and design of weaponry that will be put aboard the ships and it seems fair to suggest that LIE-berals are taking advantage of repeated proposed weapon changes to ensure that the warships NEVER get finished!)

(Such wasteful and costly delays suit the LIE-beral temperament very well! Such stalling keeps an array of white collar designers busy and well paid and meets the LIE-beral desire to insult and denigrate Cdn military at every opportunity! And such delays allow LIE-berals to deflect some of the anger over Canada being a NATO Slacker- LIE-berals can point to the rusting, weatherbeaten and mostly forgotten hulks and say: “we are trying to build a navy here”! It is the standard sort of LIE-beral Fake News of course!)

(To understand just how much contempt LIE-berals have for our military- it is worth re-examining the EH 101 helicopter contract that Chretien LIE-berals paid $500 million dollars in penalties to be let out of the contract! Yeah- $500 million dollars for the privilege of BUYING NO helicopters!!!!)

(At the time the contract was cancelled- the EH 101 was state of the art- best in the world! It HAD a proven record from having already been used by various NATO allies! EH 101 has THREE ENGINES! If one engine conks out- the machine is still GUARANTEED strong enough to fly back to base and land safely! Such a feature seems useful for Cdn flyers travelling in the Arctic or out into mid Atlantic!)

(But LIE-berals did not want such a heavy duty weapon in Canada! EH 101 is FLEXIBLE! All its gear- for submarine hunting, plus various other stuff such as gun and rocket pods are “bolt on” and can be installed or removed swiftly! With the weapons and anti sub warfare gear taken off- the EH 101 can function well in search and rescue since it has a fine range and excellent passenger carrying capacity! In short it is a machine that can easily perform multiple tasks for RCAF on short notice! For this reason- LIE-beral SHUNNED the machine!)

(Repeated crashes of the antique RCAF Sea King helicopters eventually shamed LIE-berals into buying Cormorant helicopters- the little brother to EH 101! The Cormorant was a new- UNTESTED DESIGN - and it quickly became obvious there were costly design flaws with the tail rotors!)

(Cormorant featured TWO ENGINES- and if one engine failed - the machine was guaranteed not to hit the ground- too hard- with one engine! Yeah- EH 101 could fly back to base with a failed engine- but Cormorant could only hit the ground without being wrecked if an engine failed! This is what passes for good military investment in LIE-beral circles!!!!)

We are going to do that again with the new, about-to-be-chosen "Surface Combattant" replacements for our old 280 Destroyers and current 330 Frigates. Designing warships is an extremely complex task, these days and we build them so infrequently now that we literally have to relearn it, perhaps at the cost of many billions $$ more and the risk of producing done thing that is not cutting edge enough. (I'm betting that we end up with the new British Type 26 design but it's not in the bag, yet
)

(LIE-berals are trying to stall using any means possible! Based on past LIE-beral choices- it seems they DO NOT WANT a modern military- nor even ANY military!)

(Pierre Trudeau LIE-berals avoided the NATO Slacker label by being shamed into buying the F 18 Hornet jet fighters. But later, when NATO started the bombing campaign in Kosovo- and Chretien LIE-berals sought to avoid the NATO Slacker label by offering our Hornet fighters- they were told to get lost!)

(Pierre Trudeau DID BUY modern fighters- but he made sure they would be as nearly USELESS as possible! NONE of the Cdn fighters had a bomb rack! So NO WAY to attack targets on the ground- not even with “dumb” bombs- much less “smart bombs”! And of course NO CDN fighter was equipped to fire missiles at ground targets either! Cdn fighters were so badly equipped that their radios could NOT communicate with other NATO craft! Cdn radios were seen by NATO as a LIABILITY because they were not encrypted and Serbs could listen in and get information from primitive Cdn radios!)

(And now we have Our idiot Boy Justin following in his fathers footsteps- wearing that same old NATO Slacker label and doing all he can to display his SCORN for Cdn military, for “imperialist” Yankees, for alleged white privilege, for our legal system and for NATO as well!)

(Our idiot Boy tried to calm Yankees by offering to buy some worn out Australian Hornet fighters- while studiously IGNORING the Real Yankee complaint! That Our idiot Boy had- in 2016 - imported 50,000 mostly Syrian Muslims from refugee camps run buy Terror group Hamas! LIE-berals are now puzzled as to why Yankees see Muslim refugees as probable terror threats- and why Yankees sneered at the LIE-beral proposal to erase the NATO Slacker label by buying those Australian jets- while GUTTTING the rest of the Cdn military!)

( For some reason Yankees ARE NOT reassured by Hamas security assurances regarding people sent to Caanda! Nor are Yankees reassured by Cdn security arrangements that feature Our idiot Boy taking a Sikh terrorist with him on a state visit to India- where the Sikh had been CONVICTED! Nor are Yankees happy with Cdn security that would let an accused Muslim terrorist pose for a selfie with Our idiot Boy- without Cdn cops noticing!!)

(And Yankees are even peeved at LIE-berals who think it is a fine thing to import some hundreds of thousands of illegals from around the world- with the usual utter LACK of security checks! LIE-berlas are bewildered as to why Yankees would be unhappy with letting total strangers- carrying newly issued Cdn passports that LIE-berals are giving out like they were worthless- just wander into United States as if all Cdns were equally trustworthy- when it is manifestly OBVIOUS that the opposite is true! Some so called Cdns are excited about opportunities to insult or injure Yankees!)

Even the Americans are considering buying a foreign design to replace that part of their really aging surface fleet. Specialist designers may do a better job. The Americans always have sturdy vessels of that sort but they are never cutting edge, exactly. The big experiment that they have going now is with the "littoral" classes of warships being launched right now but the jury is still out as to whether they are sea dogs or just plain dogs.

(And there is one last LIE-beral bit of Fake News! The ONLY TIME Yankees contract out anything is when they are getting worried about COSTS! Sadly it is a fact that a basic hull can be constructed by third world workers much cheaper than western unionized workers- and this is the sole interest of Yankees! Yankees WILL NOT be letting anybody outside United States install any weapons or electronic gear of any sort! Third world workers will be doing nothing more than building basic hulls and installing nothing more than bunks and kitchen equipment!)

(LIE-berals efforts to erase that NATO Slacker label have FAILED as completely as all other LIE-beral policy! And stalling and delaying will not erase that fact!)
 

Twin_Moose

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Apr 17, 2017
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Trudeau changes tune on Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, refuses to comment on documents

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau angered Conservatives in Wednesday's question period by repeatedly refusing to explain why his government isn't releasing documents requested by the legal counsel of Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.
Lawyers for Norman, who was charged in March with breach of trust for allegedly leaking government secrets to Quebec-based Davie Shipbuilding, said in a recent court filing that the government had "cherry-picked" what information to disclose.
Trudeau's reticence to address the status of the documents -- which officials have deemed cabinet secrets, but which Norman's lawyers say they need to defend him in court -- was a stark contrast to his commentary on the case last April, when he said the investigation into the military's second-highest ranked officer would "inevitably" lead to "court processes."
Conservatives began question period by delving straight into the Norman controversy, with party leader Andrew Scheer asking Trudeau why he wouldn't release the documents when he was previously willing to comment on the case.
"It wasn't inappropriate for the prime minister to comment to the media before the trial even began," Scheer said sarcastically. "He predicted that Vice-Admiral Norman would be charged and that this would be sorted out in court... all we're asking for now is an explanation as to why he won't release documents that would give [Norman] a fair trial."
Trudeau's response was brief: "As he should well know, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on this affair because it is before the courts."

Amanda Connolly

@amandacconn
· 17h

Replying to @amandacconn
"It would be inappropriate for me to comment now," Trudeau says in response to repeated questioning from the Cons about why the docs requested by Norman's lawyer have not been provided.

Amanda Connolly

@amandacconn

Remember: Trudeau said in April 2017 the matter "will likely end up before the courts" and then again in Feb 2018 that the investigation would "inevitably" lead to "court processes."

Norman wasn't charged until March 2018.
12:35 PM - Oct 17, 2018

3 See Amanda Connolly's other Tweets

Scheer then asked if Trudeau would sanction the release of documents that could potentially prove or disprove Norman's defence, but the prime minister simply repeated his previous response, nearly word-for-word.
The Opposition leader then pressed the matter further, asking, "What is he trying to hide?"
Again, Trudeau simply repeated his stock response.
Other Conservatives also went on the attack on the issue, with MP Mark Strahl saying that Trudeau's silence "reeks of a cover-up, James Bezan saying the prime minister "tainted the case" with his comments, and Erin O'Toole branding Trudeau's response — or lack of it — "shameful."
However, the prime minister refused to budge, saying the Conservatives were only bringing up the Norman trial because "they're running out of things to talk about."
Norman, who remains suspended with pay, has denied any wrongdoing and his seven-week trial is currently set to begin in August 2019 and run through much of next year's federal election.
READ MORE: Vice-Adm. Mark Norman to appear for 1st court date over alleged 2015 shipbuilding leak
His lawyers' request for the documents could put the government in a real bind, said one legal expert, since if the court agrees with Norman's lawyers, officials would be forced to either produce the sensitive documents - or refuse and risk having the case thrown out.
The disclosure of evidence is a key tenet of Canada's legal system, and courts can normally compel the release of such information, but the Canada Evidence Act lets the government refuse such requests for cabinet confidences, said University of Ottawa law professor Craig Forcese.
If that happens, he said, "there's a good chance the court would turn around and say: 'The defence doesn't have access to documents that I have decided are likely relevant. This is no longer a fair trial. Case dismissed.'
Among the documents that Norman's lawyers want are a variety of briefing notes, reports, emails and other records for ministers and senior officials as well as the results of investigations into six other alleged leaks relating to the supply-ship project.
 

Hoid

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Oct 15, 2017
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What Trudeau needs to do - to make the White Natty's happy - is to tweet that the General is a fine person who is being destroyed to satisfy the Fake News.
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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What Trudeau needs to do - to make the White Natty's happy - is to tweet that the General is a fine person who is being destroyed to satisfy the Fake News.
By the way, the project that the Admiral mentored along was delivered on time and on budget for a Navy that had zero replenishment capability left. It is the only military purchase (lease, in this case) that hasn't been an utter balls-up. Admiral Norman is my hero for getting the job that needed to be done, done in spite of two governments back-to-back that have proven to be hostile to our Armend Forces..
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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I'm sure everything was on the up and up
It was so up-and-up, the government and the Forces have been pathologically unable to make decisions about acquiring ANYTHING ... fighter aircraft, helicopters, destroyers, oilers, submarines, vehicles ...etc., etc. They are up-and-up that they can't decide whether grey is darker than white or lighter than black.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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It was so up-and-up, the government and the Forces have been pathologically unable to make decisions about acquiring ANYTHING ... fighter aircraft, helicopters, destroyers, oilers, submarines, vehicles ...etc., etc. They are up-and-up that they can't decide whether grey is darker than white or lighter than black.


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OH POOR SILLY curious Cdn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our LIE-beral overlords HAVE MADE UP THEIR MINDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And they DO NOT WANT ANY MILITARY AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Having a military costs money and LIE-berals want ALL THE GRAVY for themselves and their pals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Admiral Norman is in trouble probably because he tried to blow the whistle on LIE-beral screwups and deliberate- AND COSTLY sabotage of the navy ship building program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And by refusing to release critical papers a judge will agree to Norman`s defense lawyers claiming a mis-trial since they cannot get papers needed for proper defense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Norman will walk free and LIE-berals will slip past the scandal- FOR NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



But once Our idiot Boy and his loser LIE-berals hit the unemployment line- then the truth WILL COME OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unless of course federal LIE-berals do a better job of shredding documents and deleting files on hard drives than their Ontari-owe gas plant cousins did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!