Greek Socialists say voters face euro or default, mass poverty in Sunday election


mentalfloss
#1
Greek Socialists say voters face euro or default, mass poverty in Sunday election

ATHENS, Greece - Greece's Socialist leader warned that the country faces default and mass poverty if voters backs anti-bailout parties in the upcoming general election.

Opinion polls suggest that Evangelos Venizelos' majority Pasok party will sustain heavy losses Sunday in the recession-hit country, after imposing more than two years of harsh austerity measures.

But Venizelos said at his final election rally in Athens on Friday that Greeks faced a choice between seeing through the painful measures and remaining in the euro and experiencing a disastrous default.

Pro-bailout conservatives are leading opinion surveys but are unlikely to be able to form a government.

Greek Socialists say voters face euro or default, mass poverty in Sunday election - Winnipeg Free Press (external - login to view)
 
Vancouverite
#2
I'm no fan of Eurosocialism, but I would agree that austerity is not the way to go - my first degree was in economics, and I'm a Keynesian, which means I support government spending during recessions and government cutbacks (ha!) during boom times. I think Europe can solve its problems, if it ditches austerity, the Euro, and undergo painful structural reforms to the continental economy, particularly in workers' pensions and hiring and firing workers.

I understand, in Greece, a lawyer or pharmacist cannot start his own business; he has to buy an existing one from someone else. This limits competition and does not allow the free market to work its magic.
 
Niflmir
Free Thinker
#3
Eurosocialism? What is that exactly?
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+4
#4  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Eurosocialism? What is that exactly?


It's another word for 'entitlement'
 
Vancouverite
+2
#5
I don't want to get into an argument, especially since everyone has a different definition of socialism, but, from what I understand, the European economies aside from Britain have draconian laws that make it very difficult to fire workers, and they also make it difficult to start businesses. Furthermore, with high taxes and lush pensions, the general economic situation makes it difficult to do business and create wealth.
 
Vancouverite
#6
Thanks for the support, those who like my posts.

The Greek pro-Euro party has won a narrow victory, as opposed to the radical leftists who want to repudiate the Euro-deals altogether. I'm a conservative, and I would favor pushing the Greeks - and other PIIGS - out of the Euro zone, so they can bring back their devalued currencies and make their exports cheaper, so I would not be too happy at the victory by a pro-Euro party. That said, I wouldn't want a radical left party to win either, so I'm not sure what to feel.
 
B00Mer
Republican
+1
#7
In recent history both New Zealand and Brazil went bankrupt.. both have come out better off.

New Zealand sold off most their state owned assets such as electricity and communications.

Brazil has a better energy policy that both Canada and the USA with most of their cars now flex fuel cars..

Many other countries have gone bankrupt in the past..

Why have we fallen into a belief that we need to bail out countries or banks.. bankruptcy fixes the problem by forcing bloated corporations to shrink, sell off assets and allows smaller companies buy up those resources and grow giving the consumer more choice and better prices.

10 Governments That Went Bankrupt | Shrinkage Is Good
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

In recent history both New Zealand and Brazil went bankrupt.. both have come out better off.

New Zealand sold off most their state owned assets such as electricity and communications.

Brazil has a better energy policy that both Canada and the USA with most of their cars now flex fuel cars..

Many other countries have gone bankrupt in the past..

Why have we fallen into a belief that we need to bail out countries or banks.. bankruptcy fixes the problem by forcing bloated corporations to shrink, sell off assets and allows smaller companies buy up those resources and grow giving the consumer more choice and better prices.

10 Governments That Went Bankrupt | Shrinkage Is Good

Best look to Greece- retire at 60 - tax collection a farce- the Govt was using choppers to photo those with swimming pools- Tax evasion- Firing is impossible- Greece has to many shall we say Govt. Corps that do nothing- The place if Fffd
 
Vancouverite
+1
#9
I think most of socialist Europe should go bankrupt - the tough medicine would be good for the Old World.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Best look to Greece- retire at 60 - tax collection a farce- the Govt was using choppers to photo those with swimming pools- Tax evasion- Firing is impossible- Greece has to many shall we say Govt. Corps that do nothing- The place if Fffd


Whether it's through forced austerity or full on debt default/bankruptcy, Greeks will be paying the piper on this one way or the other.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by VancouveriteView Post

I'm no fan of Eurosocialism, but I would agree that austerity is not the way to go - my first degree was in economics, and I'm a Keynesian, which means I support government spending during recessions and government cutbacks (ha!) during boom times. I think Europe can solve its problems, if it ditches austerity, the Euro, and undergo painful structural reforms to the continental economy, particularly in workers' pensions and hiring and firing workers.

I understand, in Greece, a lawyer or pharmacist cannot start his own business; he has to buy an existing one from someone else. This limits competition and does not allow the free market to work its magic.

Only thing is that the government spending in recessions was supposed to be on infrastructure or job creating projects. In Greece and other socialist dominated countries they have been spending like drunken sailors in good times and bad on social programs which does nothing for the economy. Especially when most of it has been done with borrowed money.
 
Vancouverite
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Only thing is that the government spending in recessions was supposed to be on infrastructure or job creating projects. In Greece and other socialist dominated countries they have been spending like drunken sailors in good times and bad on social programs which does nothing for the economy. Especially when most of it has been done with borrowed money.

That's the problem with being a Keynesian - governments never want to cut back.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Only thing is that the government spending in recessions was supposed to be on infrastructure or job creating projects. In Greece and other socialist dominated countries they have been spending like drunken sailors in good times and bad on social programs which does nothing for the economy. Especially when most of it has been done with borrowed money.

Didn't Harpo's new budget outspend his last? It isn't just socialist spending like drunken sailors. Harpo and Mulberry out spent Trudeau by miles and cons are still slagging the guy. Time to take off your dogmatic blinders.
 
EagleSmack
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by VancouveriteView Post

That's the problem with being a Keynesian - governments never want to cut back.

So true. Locally my state (Massachusetts) taxes like crazy during good times... then tax during bad because the so called "have nots" are suffering.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

So true. Locally my state (Massachusetts) taxes like crazy during good times... then tax during bad because the so called "have nots" are suffering.

We used to call it indentured slavery, slavery to dept. Now they call it capitalism and free market. The rulers just cleverly changed the wording so the sheeple think they are better off. Not so.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+2
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Didn't Harpo's new budget outspend his last? It isn't just socialist spending like drunken sailors. Harpo and Mulberry out spent Trudeau by miles and cons are still slagging the guy. Time to take off your dogmatic blinders.


Show me a gvt that hasn't increased its spending as they've moved through their mandate.... But if you want to compare your messiah to the PC leaders, do so relative to the economy at the time, with inflation adjusted dollars and the percentage of GDP it represented.

I'm guessing that will put an end to the partisanship and dispel any myths about Trudeau representing any smarts as a leader
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Show me a gvt that hasn't increased its spending as they've moved through their mandate.... But if you want to compare your messiah to the PC leaders, do so relative to the economy at the time, with inflation adjusted dollars and the percentage of GDP it represented.

I'm guessing that will put an end to the partisanship and dispel any myths about Trudeau representing any smarts as a leader

I've never said he was my hero or messiah. I dispelled that silly assertion months ago.

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of cons slagging the dude when their own leaders and heroes are worse at spending and couldn't hold a candle to Trudeau's intellect or charisma. I'm thinking there is a lot of ***** envy going on among the cons.
Last edited by Cliffy; Jun 18th, 2012 at 10:52 AM..
 
EagleSmack
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

We used to call it indentured slavery, slavery to dept. Now they call it capitalism and free market. The rulers just cleverly changed the wording so the sheeple think they are better off. Not so.

Taxing the brains out of people who work to pay for people who don't and a bloated state bureaucracy is hardly capitalism.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Taxing the brains out of people who work to pay for people who don't and a bloated state bureaucracy is hardly capitalism.

That is what they call it but sure as hell ain't. But propaganda works. Sheeple have bought into it hook, line and sinker.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
+1
#20
It seems that the sheeple in Greece had no problems with 'capitalism' when the freebies were being doled-out. In fact, it might be fair to say that the people that have sucked heartily at society's teat appear to be the ones that deride the system - but only after the bill has been presented.
 
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