Amanda Knox: Guilty or victim of conspiracy?

AnnaG · Dec 7, 2009

Andem said:
She is the "she-devil" in some British newspaper headlines. In the United States, the headlines are gentler; a New York Times column called her "An Innocent Abroad." The Italians, mesmerized by the allegations of sex, drugs and murderous violence, consider her a bigger personality than Carla Bruni, a poll showed.

The media treatment is not surprising. The alleged killer, Amanda Knox, 22, is an American from Seattle. The victim, Meredith Kercher, was British. The killing took place in Perugia, a medieval hill town in central Italy. Ms. Knox is famous, or infamous, in three countries and part of the daily tabloid feast in many others.

TheGlobe&Mail

My take:

Well the verdict has come and she was found guilty by a non-sequestered jury, consisting of 6 jurors and 2 judges. In fact, one juror mentioned months before to the media that they assumed she was guilty. She has been sentenced to 26 years in prison and her boyfriend, convicted of raping and murdering the victim will be locked up as a sex offender.

Needless to say, the only solid physical evidence involving the murder of Ms. Kercher points solely and directly to the Cote D'Ivoir drifter and drug dealer, Mr. Guede. The prosecution's version of events simply can't withstand the fact that the Italian-American duo had never even had social contact with Mr. Guede.

I didn't really think much of the case and really knew nothing about it until I read some articles about conflicts arising with the case between the defense and the prosecution.. Yesterday, instead of posting here, I spent quite a while reading blogs and media reports over the case. I'm surprised it hasn't really been brought up here.

A lawyer friend mentioned that with such questionable procedures and lack of evidence, the American-Italian couple would have never been convicted in Germany. I reckon it'd never happen in the US and I don't think Canada would have convicted her either.

I agree. It sounds to me like the court convicted her on a few bits of circumstantial evidence. In North America, we need a preponderance of circumstantial evidence in order to convict. I think she was railroaded.
The last thing I want to do after smoking pot is do something violent. (That's besides the fact that pot irritates my tummy). I don't know about Italian men, though, maybe they get violent on pot.

JakeElwood · Dec 7, 2009

spaminator said:
foxy knoxy is a pretty girl. i hope she's innocent.

So if she had been unattractive, you wouldn't have cared about her guilt or innocence?

Looks like you'll need to be kept off a jury when the accused is an attractive female.

AnnaG · Dec 7, 2009

JakeElwood said:
So if she had been unattractive, you wouldn't have cared about her guilt or innocence?

Looks like you'll need to be kept off a jury when the accused is an attractive female.

It seems that way.

Socrates the Greek · Dec 7, 2009

Italy is very well known to have a poor justice system, and as a result, Italy is the incubator of Crime Bosses who have for year’s subjected innocent people to silent fear.

26 years for not being the killer or physically helping with this gruesome murder when in fact it has been said Amanda was not the killer, is very bizarre. What are these Judges thinking?
I bet if it were a mobster being sentenced, he would have been looking at a lighter sentence.

SirJosephPorter · Dec 7, 2009

Socrates the Greek said:
Italy is very well known to have a poor justice system, and as a result, Italy is the incubator of Crime Bosses who have for year’s subjected innocent people to silent fear.

26 years for not being the killer or physically helping with this gruesome murder when in fact it has been said Amanda was not the killer, is very bizarre. What are these Judges thinking?
I bet if it were a mobster being sentenced, he would have been looking at a lighter sentence.

So there is something to what CNN said abut the Italian justice system.

Francis2004 · Dec 7, 2009

Amanda Knox's parents will be on CNN's Larry King Live tonight.. Could have some interesting views on the topic..

Show Pages - Larry King Live - CNN.com

Francis2004 · Dec 7, 2009

As a follow up as well to my Social Web sites, I had a peek at Twitter and it sure has a lot of Tweets ( posts ) on the topic.. Again, people need to understand they do not help in some cases by what is said..

Andem · Dec 7, 2009

The simple fact that the jurors had access to the media or any type of social networking web sites really shows how horribly the Italian justice system works. Just the fact that they did convict a known criminal/drug dealer and continued prosecuting two other people with no solid evidence really draws a huge question mark in my mind. At first glace, that simple fact should make somebody question.

When one looks into the facts of the case, it becomes even more of an enigma.

One thing that many media outlets with negative views toward Amanda like to point out is that she was performing cartwheels after being questioned. If that simple fact was a matter in the case, I'm sure the court should have looked at her mental sanity, however it was never even a question (as far as I know) during proceedings.

This small detail was definitely a contributing factor toward her verdict, yet it wasn't a matter argued by the prosecution. To be clear, everything that was thrown out by the court was contributing to their verdicts. How corrupt and unfair can a system be?

Were drugs a contributing factor?

Anna: Your point is very valid, and the prosecution used drugs and promiscuousness as their main references for building their character profile of Amanda Knox, yet I can't say for sure if it was used against her as any of the reasons for committing murder. The following video (which I saw 2 days ago) may disprove the prosecution's arguments:

YouTube - Amanda Knox, Accused Killer of Meredith Kercher

I'm not one known to do drugs, but I have tried weed and I do drink alcohol every now and then. I can confidently say that if one does either drugs or alcohol on a regular basis, they grow tolerant towards such substances and hence can handle more than "[after] one", "one and a half" shots. Hence the picture painted by the prosecutors just doesn't hold up: It looks exactly like a college student from the suburbs, leading a sheltered life experimenting; nothing unordinary.

I think the guilty verdicts for the two (not including the Cote D'Ivoir national) is nothing short of absurd. They may be guilty, but from the courtroom I simply don't think the prosecution has a case. Most, if not all, of their arguments are circumstantial and furthermore, IMHO, full of holes and questions.

The court must known something I don't.

JakeElwood · Dec 8, 2009

Should the jury be locked away in isolation for the whole case?

Andem said:
The simple fact that the jurors had access to the media or any type of social networking web sites really shows how horribly the Italian justice system works.

The case lasted a year. How do you expect to keep the jury isolated from the world and the news for a whole year?

The judge may tell jury members to stay away from the news (TV & papers), social networking sites, etc. and to not discuss the case with family and friends. But do you honestly think that jury members in the USA, Canada or the UK are any better at obeying the orders of a judge than they are in Italy? I doubt it, especially in very long cases.

shadowshiv · Dec 8, 2009

JakeElwood said:
The case lasted a year. How do you expect to keep the jury isolated from the world and the news for a whole year?

The judge may tell jury members to stay away from the news (TV & papers), social networking sites, etc. and to not discuss the case with family and friends. But do you honestly think that jury members in the USA, Canada or the UK are any better at obeying the orders of a judge than they are in Italy? I doubt it, especially in very long cases.

With the case being as large as it was, you would think they would have sequestered the jury. I believe that is what happened during the original OJ Simpson trial, but perhaps it is different in Italy? They may not even have that as an option(but they should).

Francis2004 · Dec 8, 2009

shadowshiv said:
With the case being as large as it was, you would think they would have sequestered the jury. I believe that is what happened during the original OJ Simpson trial, but perhaps it is different in Italy? They may not even have that as an option(but they should).

I agree about the Jury..

Watching her parents on Larry King last night was interesting..

An interesting point they made..

No physical evidence and the whole case was based on circumstantial evidence. The only evidence ( physical ) put forward was a kitchen knife used that had so little DNA it usually is not accepted by courts and could well have been there from past use..

The fact they showed records of her at his ( her boyfriends ) apartment at 9:15 pm yet the murder happened at 9:30 pm with no account for the time in between for her to go from one to another in such a short amount of time and do the crime..

Even worse was the evidence of Guede who had footprints in the blood as well as DNA at the scene of the crime.. He also fled Italy to Germany as soon as he was released making it even more suspicious..

Points about the Judicial System in Italy.

Many first round cases that often result in unjust ruling as this get overturned..

Evidence can be reintroduced at anytime during the incarceration and the case re-opened with a new review of the case in light of the new evidence.

The appeal process usually usually corrects most unjust rulings in Italy..

This is not the North American Judicial Court process and people need to understand that due process must take place. We may not think of it as fair but until the final process has been exhausted we should let it run its course..

damngrumpy · Dec 8, 2009

All to often people from North America don't understand that different societies
operate with different rules. This woman was in Europe, she was not in Kansas
anymore. When subjected to justice in other parts of the world it is very unpleasant.
Its hard to say what actually happened but I think the guys killed her, and may well
have finger this young lady to support their lighter sentences.
There is an old saying, You are known by the company you keep and guilt by
association may have played a roll here. On appeal, she will be found guilty of a
lesser crime and deported back to America, to save Italian /American relations.
Send Clinton he'll get her out right?

Francis2004 · Dec 8, 2009

damngrumpy said:
All to often people from North America don't understand that different societies
operate with different rules. This woman was in Europe, she was not in Kansas
anymore. When subjected to justice in other parts of the world it is very unpleasant.
Its hard to say what actually happened but I think the guys killed her, and may well
have finger this young lady to support their lighter sentences.
There is an old saying, You are known by the company you keep and guilt by
association may have played a roll here. On appeal, she will be found guilty of a
lesser crime and deported back to America, to save Italian /American relations.
Send Clinton he'll get her out right?

Agreed that she is no longer in the US..

Her sentence "could" be lessened and she "could" be sent to the US after spending some time in Italy doing part of the time there. No one really knows what will happen. All charges could be dropped and she could be free or all could be upheld. Any scenario could happen..

Hillary Clinton will eventually communicate and she, not he, will see what can be done. Its not like anything will change overnight even if she calls today..

Socrates the Greek · Dec 8, 2009

Guilty by association is the most demented method of justice.
Innocent people spend time behind bars around the world because of judicial incompetence.

I really wander if there is any Judge who has send a person behind bars for 20 -30 years and realizing after this massive time lose on the convicted persons life, it was the wrong guy because the guilty verdict was based on GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.

In Amanda Knox case is exactly that…..That definitely does not garner respect for Italy’s mob style justice.

Especial on the point made by Francis-2004 here on this thread about the chronology, that makes it imposable to go from one location to the crime location in such a short time.

“The fact they showed records of her at his ( her boyfriends ) apartment at 9:15 pm yet the murder happened at 9:30 pm with no account for the time in between for her to go from one to another in such a short amount of time and do the crime..”

This case will open the world’s eyes on what Italian justice is all about.
The judges on this case should make a quick reversal to Amanda’s verdict to save face with the world, AND PROVE TO THE WORLD THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT PROVIDE FAIR JUSTICE FOR THE PEOPLE. Anything else is pure meathead thugury.:angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:

spaminator · Dec 8, 2009

JakeElwood said:
So if she had been unattractive, you wouldn't have cared about her guilt or innocence?

Looks like you'll need to be kept off a jury when the accused is an attractive female.

AnnaG said:
It seems that way.

both of my sentences were not releated to one another.:roll: in regards to innocence or guilt, i doesn't matter to me what the accused looks like.:roll: i would never wish guilt upon anyone.

Kreskin · Dec 8, 2009

To me this was more about the need to sacrifice a young woman to appease the barbarian within. Weren't blood and guts a tradition in Rome?

JakeElwood · Dec 9, 2009

shadowshiv said:
With the case being as large as it was, you would think they would have sequestered the jury. I believe that is what happened during the original OJ Simpson trial, but perhaps it is different in Italy? They may not even have that as an option(but they should).

It was following the 1995 OJ Simpson trial that sequestration of a jury fell out of favour.

The long term isolation of a jury is thought to cause more problems than it solves, ie. the stress of a juror being away from family for extended peroid, makes it more likely the juror could leave midtrial, siting personal problems, resulting in a greater chance of a mistrial.

When do judges sequester juries? - By Brendan I. Koerner - Slate Magazine

Cliffy · Dec 9, 2009

spaminator said:
both of my sentences were not releated to one another.:roll: in regards to innocence or guilt, i doesn't matter to me what the accused looks like.:roll: i would never wish guilt upon anyone.

Off topic: Do all those alien abduction gifs have anything to do with your personal experiences of life?

spaminator · Dec 9, 2009

Cliffy said:
Off topic: Do all those alien abduction gifs have anything to do with your personal experiences of life?

nope. i orginally had a blow job smiley gif that i used along with the previous screen name sperminator that ron removed and changed. i have a love of science fiction and the paranormal. :smile:

Blackleaf · Dec 10, 2009

shadowshiv said:
Now, I am not sure. Would the same outcome occur if the trial had happened in either Canada or the US?

Who knows? Although there's no reason to believe that America or Canada's justice system is any superior to that of Italy's.

Amanda Knox: Guilty or victim of conspiracy?

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