Quantum Entanglement

karrie
+1
#1
I recently saw an episode of 'Weird or What' that discussed serendipity, coincidence, those odd little statistically improbable occurences that take place, and it raised the issue of quantum entanglement. A physics professor they had on the program discussed his theory that quantum entanglement may apply on a scale much larger than simply the atomic level, that lives brushing up against one another in significant ways can then become linked, and will impact one another as they move through life. I found it an intriguing idea, given many of the occurences I deal with on a regular basis with no apparent explanation, like my husband's ability to wake me up if he wakes up in the middle of the night.... when he's away working. It's a running joke that he can call, and I can tell him what times he was called out to the rig floor in the middle of the night, because I'd pop wide awake. Other instances occur with great regularity too for me, such as getting a headache and thinking about someone, only to give their home phone a ring on the off chance they're not at work, and finding they've stayed home because they have a massive stress headache, and were needing someone to talk to.

Probably my most notable though was dreaming about my cousin. A vivid, terrible dream, where he was walking away from me, and I was desparate to make him come back and talk. But he wouldn't look at me, just kept walking, looking sad. I screamed and cried for him to come back. But he was gone. I woke up crying, told hubby about it, and was heavy hearted all day, thinking I needed to call him that night when he got home from work. Rarely do people pop into your head (okay my head) like that for no reason. But it was too late. He'd died in a car wreck as I was waking up.

And yes yes, I know the math, I know the statistics and the science often says it's mere coincidence... law of probabilities... but let me tell you it sure doesn't feel like it when you know.
 
darkbeaver
#2
Scientific Evidence for Psychic Phenomena Finally? (external - login to view)

You know your story is very interesting karrie and very common all through the ages. You know of course that the professional skeptics will poopoo the whole idea with relish as they are too stupid and frightened by the unknown to simply say, I don't know.
 
Tonington
+2
#3  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

You know of course that the professional skeptics will poopoo the whole idea with relish as they are too stupid and frightened by the unknown to simply say, I don't know.

You have it backwards. A professional skeptic has no problem at all saying I don't know. It's attribution of uncertain causes that pique the skeptical mind. Theories are always interesting to entertain, but the answer remains I don't know about that, until there is some proper evidence.
 
El Barto
#4
Karrie , little things like that used to happen to me a lot. There are stranger things science can't explain , or should i say yet. I don't believe in coincedences..... we are way more conected than we want to believe.
Skeptics will brush it off as that , a coincedence but when you start doing the probabilities .....it's another story .
 
Dexter Sinister
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by El BartoView Post

Skeptics will brush it off as that , a coincedence but when you start doing the probabilities .....it's another story .

Not really, it's the same story, and not a coincidence at all, it's quite predictable. Extremely low probability events happen all the time, simply because there are so many possible events. We attach significance to some and remember them, and forget the rest, but without data on the rest of them we can't realistically assess the significance of the ones we remember.
 
darkbeaver
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

You have it backwards. A professional skeptic has no problem at all saying I don't know. It's attribution of uncertain causes that pique the skeptical mind. Theories are always interesting to entertain, but the answer remains I don't know about that, until there is some proper evidence.

A professional skeptic says what the customer requires, every time or there is no pay. Evidence is or it isn't.
 
relic
#7
There's stuff that can't be explained,no matter how much datta you have to realistically assess the significance,some people have it, some don't.Sometimes it's just odd,sometimes it's scary,if you take it too seriously it can drive you nuts.
 
Tonington
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

A professional skeptic says what the customer requires, every time or there is no pay.

No, that would be a stooge, like a scientist hired by tobacco companies. Or one paid by fossil fuel companies. Hence the irony with the term skeptics for those who aren't really skeptical at all.

Quote:

Evidence is or it isn't.

Only in the dream world is there such certainty, and I might add this isn't a useful or helpful way of looking at things. Maybe the hypothesis only needs to be modified slightly to find the association.
 
darkbeaver
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

No, that would be a stooge, like a scientist hired by tobacco companies. Or one paid by fossil fuel companies. Hence the irony with the term skeptics for those who aren't really skeptical at all.

Only in the dream world is there such certainty, and I might add this isn't a useful or helpful way of looking at things. Maybe the hypothesis only needs to be modified slightly to find the association.

No I was correct. A professional skeptic would do exactly as I said, as completely and convincingly argue for or against, as the customer required. And he would of course be a degree bearing stooge preferably. Of which there are several million presently looking for work. They spin stories about toothpaste toilet paper climate guns rat poison screw drivers pills beer you name it they'll lie through their teeth about it, because they're professional stooges and they can.

Quote: Originally Posted by relicView Post

There's stuff that can't be explained,no matter how much datta you have to realistically assess the significance,some people have it, some don't.Sometimes it's just odd,sometimes it's scary,if you take it too seriously it can drive you nuts.

I think you have a good approach.
Last edited by darkbeaver; Jan 22nd, 2011 at 08:06 PM..
 
Tonington
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

No I was correct. A professional skeptic would do exactly as I said, as completely and convincingly argue for or against, as the customer required.

No, you weren't. It violates the definition of skeptic. Smoke some more birch bark beaver, it might bring you round to coherent.
 
darkbeaver
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

No, you weren't. It violates the definition of skeptic. Smoke some more birch bark beaver, it might bring you round to coherent.

and they violate the definition of skeptic as well and still get paid , violated definitions are a sign of the times Tonnington, get with the program, if I were coherent what makes you think you could keep up, I have to sedate to get slowed down to you



pt;2b
The downfall of science and the rise of intellectual tyranny (external - login to view)


Natural News
The very reputation of so-called "science" has been irreparably damaged by the invocation of the term "science" by GMO lackeys, pesticide pushers, mercury advocates and fluoride poisoners who all claim to have science on their side.
It seems that every toxin, contamination and chemical disaster that now infects our planet has been evangelized in the name of "science.


pt 3a; and that will be my last contribution to this thread that does not strictly adhere to the OPs subject matter. Why do you always have to turn every thread into a defence of stooges?
Last edited by darkbeaver; Jan 22nd, 2011 at 08:27 PM..
 
Tonington
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

and they violate the definition of skeptic as well and still get paid

They are not skeptics...your use of the word is meaningless.
 
darkbeaver
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

They are not skeptics...your use of the word is meaningless.

How can I trust you? My god man you have a degree. Science and scientists have very bad reputations these days. Th nazis employed scientist you know.
 
karrie
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by El BartoView Post

Karrie , little things like that used to happen to me a lot. There are stranger things science can't explain , or should i say yet. I don't believe in coincedences..... we are way more conected than we want to believe.
Skeptics will brush it off as that , a coincedence but when you start doing the probabilities .....it's another story .

Dex is right, individual instances CAN be explained away with probabilities. But, when it's recurring things like with hubby and my sleep schedules impacting one another from clear across the continent, it goes beyond being able to explain away as improbable events sticking in one's head
 
Tonington
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

How can I trust you?

I'm not asking you to trust me. If I were going to ask anything of you, it would be to make sensible comments.

Quote:

My god man you have a degree. Science and scientists have very bad reputations these days.

Yes, lots of ignorance. It's easy to fear and smear what you don't understand.
 
darkbeaver
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

I'm not asking you to trust me. If I were going to ask anything of you, it would be to make sensible comments.


Yes, lots of ignorance. It's easy to fear and smear what you don't understand.

You are afraid because you don't understand that I understand, understood. I'm beginning to empathize with the inquisition and there problem with Bruno. Now lets return the thread to Karrie and the schedualed program.
 
Cliffy
#17
I made a discovery about some archeological theory that disproved it. I mentioned it to an archaeologist I know and he said, "Oh ya, we've known that for at least five years." I said, why is it not known by the general public then. he said it takes anywhere from ten to twenty years for information to reach the general public. I am discovering that that seems to be the case with most schools of scientific thought. There is a vested interest of those who receive awards for their "discoveries" to suppress anything that refutes them.

I have mentioned before that quantum physics is proving that there is a correlation between what we think and how we feel and how life is influenced by it. Quantum entanglement does influence our lives but few of us know about it or pay attention to it. But more and more physicists are agreeing that thought, feelings, beliefs and mind set do influence matter, that science is getting closer to proving what the mystics have been saying all along.
 
Dexter Sinister
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

... science is getting closer to proving what the mystics have been saying all along.

Sorry Cliffy, those ideas have been around at least since 1975 when Fritjof Capra wrote The Tao of Physics, and they've gained no traction in the scientific community in the 36 years since. That claim is simply not true. Quantum entanglement just doesn't scale up to things the size of us, it happens only under very particular circumstances between pairs of closely interacting quantum particles. Granted there's a lot of deeply counter-intuitive weirdness at the fringes of physics, but there's nothing in it that justifies that claim.
 
Cliffy
+1
#19
And that is the beauty of science: there are no absolutes. There are quantum physicists who agree with what I said and a bunch that would agree with you. But the only constant in the universe is change. And ten or twenty years from now most sciences will look different than they do today. Some beliefs will be expanded upon and some will be abandoned.
 
El Barto
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Dex is right, individual instances CAN be explained away with probabilities. But, when it's recurring things like with hubby and my sleep schedules impacting one another from clear across the continent, it goes beyond being able to explain away as improbable events sticking in one's head

Had occurences of being weeks away from home and having both me and the x dreaming of the same subject on the same night....
I think sometimes close ties with someone you may tend to get way more connected .
 
Tonington
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Some beliefs will be expanded upon and some will be abandoned.

Yep, and that is what separates science from woo.
 
Cliffy
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Yep, and that is what separates science from woo.

Whatever woo is. Science mostly deals with the material tangible stuff. It has no way to deal with the intangible or spiritual stuff. It seem ludicrous to me for any scientist to even comment on stuff they have no way of knowing about because their "discipline" has geared their minds into a "physical" box. I have studied metaphysics for forty years.You can poo poo it all you want and it makes no difference because you don't know anything about it.
 
Tonington
#23
Tangible? There is nothing tangible to you or I about the quantization of particles, yet science can study it. The box that science is in is not a physical box, it's a box that outlines how you test hypotheses. I'm not poo pooing anything, as I said to beaver already I don't know is a perfectly fine answer.
 
JLM
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Whatever woo is. Science mostly deals with the material tangible stuff. It has no way to deal with the intangible or spiritual stuff. It seem ludicrous to me for any scientist to even comment on stuff they have no way of knowing about because their "discipline" has geared their minds into a "physical" box. I have studied metaphysics for forty years.You can poo poo it all you want and it makes no difference because you don't know anything about it.

Is that "metaphysics" something like turning straw into gold? When you get that part fine tuned, let me know.
 
Ron in Regina
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

I recently saw an episode of 'Weird or What' that discussed serendipity, coincidence, those odd little statistically improbable occurences that take place, and it raised the issue of quantum entanglement. A physics professor they had on the program discussed his theory that quantum entanglement may apply on a scale much larger than simply the atomic level, that lives brushing up against one another in significant ways can then become linked, and will impact one another as they move through life. I found it an intriguing idea, given many of the occurences I deal with on a regular basis with no apparent explanation, like my husband's ability to wake me up if he wakes up in the middle of the night.... when he's away working. It's a running joke that he can call, and I can tell him what times he was called out to the rig floor in the middle of the night, because I'd pop wide awake. Other instances occur with great regularity too for me, such as getting a headache and thinking about someone, only to give their home phone a ring on the off chance they're not at work, and finding they've stayed home because they have a massive stress headache, and were needing someone to talk to.
Probably my most notable though was dreaming about my cousin. A vivid, terrible dream, where he was walking away from me, and I was desparate to make him come back and talk. But he wouldn't look at me, just kept walking, looking sad. I screamed and cried for him to come back. But he was...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post

This coincidence you describe here Karrie seems to run in my family, but usually
only in the females in a direct blood-line from my Mother. The one exception was
one of my Nephews when he was young, but that seems to have passed before
he hit puberty.

It was strongest between my Mother and my oldest Brother. My mother would know
when he was hurt, and would have the same pain....and this would happen from
motorcycle accidents to other happenings.

When that Brother was very young, he was very ill, and had to be in a tent with a
humidifier. At that time my Mom was in an ugly relationship with a guy who was
away for weeks or months at a time, living on a farm, with no phone, etc...and that
humidifier got tipped over, scalding my Brother. That was where my Mother thought
it all started.

Back in the very early '80's, my Mother woke in the night with horrible pain in her
hand. She knew that Dan was hurt. She tried phoning him at home and work, and
had my Father massaging her hand for hours...

Turns out my Brother was working alone in a shop out in the Industrial area on a
Semi, and the engine turned over, trapping his hand between a belt and a pulley,
with his feet dangling off the floor. Shortly after this happened, the phone in that
shop started ringing, but he couldn't reach it.

It took him hours to saw through that belt with a screwdriver (He has carried a knife
on his belt everyday since). Once he was freed, and called my Mother, her hand
stopped aching. This is just one example of many....
 
DaSleeper
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Is that "metaphysics" something like turning straw into gold? When you get that part fine tuned, let me know.

Or something like the true tempering of raw copper
 
s_lone
+1
#27
It seems to me that Carl Jung's concept of synchronicity applies well to this discussion.

Synchronicity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)

Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events, that are apparently causally unrelated or unlikely to occur together by chance, that are observed to occur together in a meaningful manner. The concept of synchronicity was first described by Swiss psychologist Carl Gustav Jung in the 1920s.[1]
The concept does not question, or compete with, the notion of causality. Instead, it maintains that just as events may be grouped by cause, they may also be grouped by their meaning. Since meaning is a complex mental construction, subject to conscious and subconscious influence, not every correlation in the grouping of events by meaning needs to have an explanation in terms of cause and effect.


I'm sure most of us will admit to experiencing synchronicity at least a few times in our lives.

I'm a piano teacher and 2 days ago I was listing to one of my talented 14 year old student playing a Chopin piece we had worked on together. It suddenly dawned on me that she would probably play Debussy's ''Clair de Lune'' really well. When she finished playing I told her we should start working on a new piece but before suggesting ''Claire de Lune'' I asked her if there was any piece she wanted to play. She then told me that her cousin had given her the score to a piece called ''Clair de Lune'' and that she had started working on it at home... She then proceeded to playing the part she had learned while I was just sitting there, dumbfounded by the coincidence and by how naturally she played it for her age.

YouTube - CLAUDE DEBUSSY CLAIRE DE LUNE



When you think of it, there's nothing very spectacular about this. ''Clair de Lune'' is a fairly popular piece. But the point here is that the coincidence was very meaningful to me and to her. It all just felt so right.

The fact that two causally unrelated events can be connected by meaning can ironically appear as meaningless to the materialist skeptics because to them, the concept of causality has precedence over the concept of meaning, which is ''merely'' a creation of our minds... They'll say that a coincidence is all it is, refusing to see in it any demonstration of a universe permeated with meaning. This demonstrates their belief that only a human mind has the necessary depth and complexity necessary for ''meaningfulness'' to exist, revealing their own hubris. As if only human life had ''meaning''! It seems to me that they are disconnecting themselves from the Cosmos from which they are born, failing to see that the meaning that permeates our mind is caused by the Cosmos itself.
 
darkbeaver
#28
"This demonstrates their belief that only a human mind has the necessary depth and complexity necessary for ''meaningfulness'' to exist, revealing their own hubris. As if only human life had ''meaning''!"

Somehow connected with the notion of human dominion over all and a great fear.
 
Cannuck
+1
#29
My Aunt died of cancer in 1977 and her ashes were sent to North Bay to be buried near her sons. A year later, my uncle was driving through North Bay and it occurred to him that he hadn't been to her grave site yet. Being in a hurry, he decided that he would stop on his way back though. Something kept telling him though, that he had you stop "now". He fought it until he was 1/2 hour passed North Bay when the need to turn the car around became too much for him.

He wandered around the graveyard for a while, trying to find her and, giving up, he headed for the car. He happened to meet a worker and asked how he could find her plot. The worker started apologizing to my uncle. It seems my aunt's ashes were misplaced for a year and the worker was, at that particular moment, going out to bury them. My Uncle helped the worker bury his sister and he never told this story to anybody until 2003.

ESP? Coincidence? Was she talking to him from beyond? Quantum entanglements?
 
JLM
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

My Aunt died of cancer in 1977 and her ashes were sent to North Bay to be buried near her sons. A year later, my uncle was driving through North Bay and it occurred to him that he hadn't been to her grave site yet. Being in a hurry, he decided that he would stop on his way back though. Something kept telling him though, that he had you stop "now". He fought it until he was 1/2 hour passed North Bay when the need to turn the car around became too much for him.

He wandered around the graveyard for a while, trying to find her and, giving up, he headed for the car. He happened to meet a worker and asked how he could find her plot. The worker started apologizing to my uncle. It seems my aunt's ashes were misplaced for a year and the worker was, at that particular moment, going out to bury them. My Uncle helped the worker bury his sister and he never told this story to anybody until 2003.

ESP? Coincidence? Was she talking to him from beyond? Quantum entanglements?

I think there are just too many of these types of events for it to be coincidence. I can think of a couple right off the top of my head.
 

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