E85 85% Ethanol & 15% Gasoline

jjaycee98

Electoral Member
Jan 27, 2006
421
4
18
British Columbia
Being as Ethanole can be made from any plant material one wonders why we are encouraging the use of food crops. My experience with trying to grow a garden was mostly a huge battle to fend off the weeds to give my pathetic little veggies a chance to grow. Why don't they use weeds?

An article in Westworld (Autoclub Publication) says:

Brazil is now totally independent of OPEC. Flex-Fuel vehicles are the only thing that sells there. People will not buy Gasoline vehicles.

Further a company in New Mexico is making Ethanol from algae and expects to be able to supply ALL the vehicular fuel for the US market within 10 years.

There are conversion kits to switch over older vehicles to E85.

So when we pump our soil dry of oil and NG we will be at the mercy of those who have spent the time & money researching other forms of energy.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,840
7,786
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
E85 85% Ethanol & 15% Gasoline

Doesn't E85 have some serious jelling problems with our climate. I know you can add additives to
prevent that with much lower ratio's of bio-mix....but not sure about that high a ratio...
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,840
7,786
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
E85 85% Ethanol & 15% Gasoline

I think the USAF (in warm climates) uses B20 in their land vehicles...and Minnesota has had
legislated in 2% (98% is still deisel) for several years now...and that actully cleans out an
engine, But wouldn't E85 be a solid not too far below 0c? Wouldn't you be able to walk across an
open trough of E85 at -30c like a rubbery sidewalk and not get your boots wet?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
This is a better solution than blaming India for the food shortage just because they want to now have 2 meals a day instead of just the one, and now that they have jobs they probably need the extra energy.

DPA
Berlin, April 4 (DPA) Amid growing fears that biofuel farming is harming the environment and driving world food prices, Germany Friday cancelled plans to mix more ethanol made from plants with petrol. Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel said the decision was taken because 10 percent ethanol in petrol would rot the hoses and gaskets of millions of auto engines. But he said an order for diesel fuel to contain 7 percent ethanol remained in place. Gabriel rejected accusations of blundering and cast blame on car manufacturers for not telling him in time that three million engines were vulnerable if the current ethanol supplements were increased.
He said he refused to force millions of German motorists to buy a more expensive, ethanol-free grade of petrol.



Germany cancels plans to mix ethanol with petrol
 

jjaycee98

Electoral Member
Jan 27, 2006
421
4
18
British Columbia
I think the USAF (in warm climates) uses B20 in their land vehicles...and Minnesota has had
legislated in 2% (98% is still deisel) for several years now...and that actully cleans out an
engine, But wouldn't E85 be a solid not too far below 0c? Wouldn't you be able to walk across an
open trough of E85 at -30c like a rubbery sidewalk and not get your boots wet?

No clue about any of this but I wonder just what they are doing in Brazil that is a viable fuel source. Supposedly there is an Ethanol plant outside of Ottawa and some of our MPs are test driving vehicles fueled from that plant.

We seem to be so into preserving our Oil & Gas Patch jobs and cash turn over, that we are going to leave our decendants dependant on other countries that have been putting their money, and brains to work on alternate energy ideas.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
63
MHz so its our fault Indians have not enough food.

And our fault they have too much food (lowering food prices and causing farmer suicides)


For years people have been saying western food is too cheap and its destroying the third world, now its too expensive and destroying the third world.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
I think the USAF (in warm climates) uses B20 in their land vehicles...and Minnesota has had
legislated in 2% (98% is still deisel) for several years now...and that actully cleans out an
engine, But wouldn't E85 be a solid not too far below 0c? Wouldn't you be able to walk across an
open trough of E85 at -30c like a rubbery sidewalk and not get your boots wet?

Ethanol melts at -114.3°C. That's quite a bit lower than our winters :D
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,843
92
48
Check your owner's manual; many models will have engines sieze if they use E85.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
No clue about any of this but I wonder just what they are doing in Brazil that is a viable fuel source. Supposedly there is an Ethanol plant outside of Ottawa and some of our MPs are test driving vehicles fueled from that plant.

We seem to be so into preserving our Oil & Gas Patch jobs and cash turn over, that we are going to leave our decendants dependant on other countries that have been putting their money, and brains to work on alternate energy ideas.

What you are missing is that ethenol isn't a viable alternative. When all factors are taken into account (right back to the planting) it isn't cheap either and it is using up valuable crop lands.

Brazil uses sugar-cane which is fine until you factor in that aquiring more land means cutting into the rain-forest which has value as it stands in medicines and other such products. The soil is delicate, not at all like the hard packed soils (via herds of long ago) of North America.

MHz so its our fault Indians have not enough food.
And our fault they have too much food (lowering food prices and causing farmer suicides)
For years people have been saying western food is too cheap and its destroying the third world, now its too expensive and destroying the third world.
I'm saying if we give them work (outsourced jobs number how many in the last 10 years) then we shouldn't bitch if they want 2 meals/day instead of 1meal/day. Did you come from a long line of slave-owners or what?
The one that accused them of causing the food shortage (by wanting more food) was a very high up member of the German Govt BTW
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
63
Ok, lets go over this. They have always had work. Now they have better paying jobs (and actually, being office jobs they require less food).

They can buy all the food they want, free market, power to em. But if we choose to use Ethanol instead of Gas and that means there is less food to export, tough nuggets to you. Grow your own food and make a mint using it as food or fuel. If you cant' grow enough food to feed your people, you have too many people in your land.
 
Last edited:

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
What you are missing is that ethenol isn't a viable alternative. When all factors are taken into account (right back to the planting) it isn't cheap either and it is using up valuable crop lands.

That doesn't mean that is always how things will be. Biomass is a huge feedstock, provided they can get the proper enzymes.

Oilseeds that don't compete for fertile agricultural land, such as Jatropha oil, are actively being researched.

Though in the end I'm pretty sure electric vehicles will replace the internal combustion engine, at least for passenger vehicles.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
In North America it is corn (mostly), in South America it is sugar-cane, I don't know what is grown in Europe or the far East. Can the plant you mention be eaten by 'fleshy animals' as food? The rich don't care about the cost of either fuel or food, they have a means to pass that onto the poor who (is this was such a good idea) end up paying more at the pump and in the grocery store. Something that benefits the few over the many is just the opposite of the way things are supposed to happen (promises of men these very days) is it not?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,840
7,786
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
E85 85% Ethanol & 15% Gasoline

Ethanol melts at -114.3°C. That's quite a bit lower than our winters :D

Tonington, I admit that I know almost nothing about Ethanol and was too tired (=lazy) to look
it up myself before I went to bed last night. I've done some reading on some of the various
bio-deisel mix's in the last couple years and that's where my questions where coming from.
I'll have some homework to do before I put my toe in the water further on this Thread. I was
assuming (and I know the ass/u/me thing) a correlation between properties or Ethonol and the
various Bio-deisel products and their % mix's that are very temperature (climate) sensitive.
Ya' learn something new everyday and I've much more to learn about Ethanol it seems...