Bright Spark
Posts: 435 
Location: St. John's
Location: St. John's
February 1st, 2007, 10:09 AM
Actually, with the breeding rate of Canadians compared to Muslim immigrants, the muslim grandchildren won't need to be Canadian. Canada will be totally Arabic. Homework assignement for you:
Find out what "Ummah" means.
Find out how many Canadian muslim youth (16-24)support Sharia law in this country, as opposed to their parents (40)
Find out how, and why, Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion.
Find the definition of "Dhimmi" and how Dhimmitude is applied in Islamic societies.
Have fun, and either grow a beard or start petitioning for tougher immigration laws.
Quoting sanctus
Well, of course there will be a period in which Muslim immigrants will be settling in and getting used to us, and we to them. By the time their grandchildren are born, these grandchildren will be totally Canadian and the "problems" with Muslims all over.
Actually, with the breeding rate of Canadians compared to Muslim immigrants, the muslim grandchildren won't need to be Canadian. Canada will be totally Arabic. Homework assignement for you:
Find out what "Ummah" means.
Find out how many Canadian muslim youth (16-24)support Sharia law in this country, as opposed to their parents (40)
Find out how, and why, Islam is the worlds fastest growing religion.
Find the definition of "Dhimmi" and how Dhimmitude is applied in Islamic societies.
Have fun, and either grow a beard or start petitioning for tougher immigration laws.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,642 
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
February 1st, 2007, 10:52 AM
Quoting Doryman
you're suggesting that when a muslim immigrates to canada they might "forget" that murder is illegal here?
I don't see anything wrong with posting a reminder that certain things are not allowed in our country. People always assume that immigrants will toss out their sharia law mindsets and embrace secular liberalism as soon as they step into canada, but it's far from the truth. We've had enough "honour" killings among canadian immigrants to prove that not every would be Canadian holds Canadian values.
Hooray for Heureuxville
Hooray for Heureuxville
Senate Member
Posts: 6,500
February 1st, 2007, 11:13 AM
Where can we get a copy of the document passed by the Council in that town?
A small town defends its local customs
Brigitte Pellerin, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Tuesday, January 30, 2007
How does the old saying go? Ah, yes. Some people are so open-minded their brains have fallen out. For instance the sophisticated "experts" who denounced the small Quebec town of Herouxville for publishing a set of communal norms that include refraining from stoning women in public places.
Perhaps you missed the news: The Canadian Press report published in a few English-speaking newspapers on Sunday (the French-speaking media were, unsurprisingly, more comprehensive in their coverage). It said "Herouxville, about 165 km northeast of Montreal, passed a document at a town council meeting this month that outlines what it considers to be its official behavioural norms. The document, sent to both the provincial and federal governments, states that 'a woman can ... drive a car, sign cheques, dance, decide on her own.'" And that "covering one's face other than on Halloween, burning women alive or burning them with acid is not considered acceptable."
There are also rules stating that men and women can be treated by health professionals of either gender, that children can eat meat without having to know how the beast was killed and by whom, that toward the end of the year folks enjoy Christmas festivities, and that adults are allowed to drink alcohol in public.
In fact, these are not "rules" so much as a list of the locals' accepted customs, drawn up by city councillors on behalf of the town's residents to reflect the results of a public opinion survey. (You can find the document, including a clumsy English translation, at municipalite.herouxville.qc.ca under "avis public.") These people may be hicks -- Herouxville's coat of arms proudly features a bright red tractor -- but they're not stupid.
They know their norms have no legal standing. They're doing it to make a point, to stress that as far as they're concerned, there is a huge difference between welcoming immigrants from all over and welcoming the bad habits most immigrants are trying to leave behind. As Councillor Andre Drouin explained, "We have to ensure that people who come here want to live like us." Live like us, mark you, not look like us.
True, Herouxville has very few immigrants. It's rather out of the way, somewhere north of Grand-Mere -- itself not exactly located at the centre of the universe. But just because there aren't problems now doesn't mean there can't ever be any. Who would have thought England would be home to imams who openly say, in plain English, that "Allah has created the woman deficient," that if a woman "doesn't wear hijab we hit her" and that homosexuals ought to be thrown off mountains? Yet as Channel 4's program Dispatches showed, that's exactly what's happening, in mosques Tony Blair praised as moderate. (Look for "Dispatches: Undercover Mosque" on Google Video and prepare to be horrified.)
Are the good citizens of Herouxville overreacting? A bit. Are these norms enforceable? Some aren't, of course. Others are, but not at a municipal level. I'm pretty sure it's illegal under the federal criminal code to throw acid in someone's face or to perform what is euphemistically known as "female circumcision." What the people of Herouxville are doing is proudly declaring where they stand.
Are they guilty of racism, bigotry and intolerance, as many commentators huffily assert? No. Real bigotry is saying those of another religion, culture, or race necessarily support stoning women in public places.
According to the hundreds of e-mails the municipality has received, many of which are posted on its website, folks from all across the province are congratulating Herouxville officials for daring to say out loud what many are secretly thinking. It's about time, many write, that Quebec culture be protected, too. Not so the experts. La Presse quoted a Universite de Montreal official shocked to find preconceived ideas still present despite all the debates on "reasonable accommodation," a woman from something called the "Comite ecoles et communaute" (no idea what it does) saying the government ought not to take this incident lightly, and the president of the "Comite consultatif sur l'integration et l'accommodement raisonnable en milieu scolaire" (ditto) who did the obligatory criticizing of the media for the benefit of the media.
The paper also quoted prominent lawyer Jean-Claude Hebert saying that "The norms go against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and are therefore unconstitutional."
Whoa. I hope you were holding onto your bonnet. Do we really have in this country a constitutional right to stone women? Why weren't we told?
It will be interesting to see how politicians react. Let's hope they at least keep their brains safely inside their heads.
Brigitte Pellerin's column appears Tuesday and Thursday.
Where can we get a copy of the document passed by the Council in that town?
A small town defends its local customs
Brigitte Pellerin, The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Tuesday, January 30, 2007
How does the old saying go? Ah, yes. Some people are so open-minded their brains have fallen out. For instance the sophisticated "experts" who denounced the small Quebec town of Herouxville for publishing a set of communal norms that include refraining from stoning women in public places.
Perhaps you missed the news: The Canadian Press report published in a few English-speaking newspapers on Sunday (the French-speaking media were, unsurprisingly, more comprehensive in their coverage). It said "Herouxville, about 165 km northeast of Montreal, passed a document at a town council meeting this month that outlines what it considers to be its official behavioural norms. The document, sent to both the provincial and federal governments, states that 'a woman can ... drive a car, sign cheques, dance, decide on her own.'" And that "covering one's face other than on Halloween, burning women alive or burning them with acid is not considered acceptable."
There are also rules stating that men and women can be treated by health professionals of either gender, that children can eat meat without having to know how the beast was killed and by whom, that toward the end of the year folks enjoy Christmas festivities, and that adults are allowed to drink alcohol in public.
In fact, these are not "rules" so much as a list of the locals' accepted customs, drawn up by city councillors on behalf of the town's residents to reflect the results of a public opinion survey. (You can find the document, including a clumsy English translation, at municipalite.herouxville.qc.ca under "avis public.") These people may be hicks -- Herouxville's coat of arms proudly features a bright red tractor -- but they're not stupid.
They know their norms have no legal standing. They're doing it to make a point, to stress that as far as they're concerned, there is a huge difference between welcoming immigrants from all over and welcoming the bad habits most immigrants are trying to leave behind. As Councillor Andre Drouin explained, "We have to ensure that people who come here want to live like us." Live like us, mark you, not look like us.
True, Herouxville has very few immigrants. It's rather out of the way, somewhere north of Grand-Mere -- itself not exactly located at the centre of the universe. But just because there aren't problems now doesn't mean there can't ever be any. Who would have thought England would be home to imams who openly say, in plain English, that "Allah has created the woman deficient," that if a woman "doesn't wear hijab we hit her" and that homosexuals ought to be thrown off mountains? Yet as Channel 4's program Dispatches showed, that's exactly what's happening, in mosques Tony Blair praised as moderate. (Look for "Dispatches: Undercover Mosque" on Google Video and prepare to be horrified.)
Are the good citizens of Herouxville overreacting? A bit. Are these norms enforceable? Some aren't, of course. Others are, but not at a municipal level. I'm pretty sure it's illegal under the federal criminal code to throw acid in someone's face or to perform what is euphemistically known as "female circumcision." What the people of Herouxville are doing is proudly declaring where they stand.
Are they guilty of racism, bigotry and intolerance, as many commentators huffily assert? No. Real bigotry is saying those of another religion, culture, or race necessarily support stoning women in public places.
According to the hundreds of e-mails the municipality has received, many of which are posted on its website, folks from all across the province are congratulating Herouxville officials for daring to say out loud what many are secretly thinking. It's about time, many write, that Quebec culture be protected, too. Not so the experts. La Presse quoted a Universite de Montreal official shocked to find preconceived ideas still present despite all the debates on "reasonable accommodation," a woman from something called the "Comite ecoles et communaute" (no idea what it does) saying the government ought not to take this incident lightly, and the president of the "Comite consultatif sur l'integration et l'accommodement raisonnable en milieu scolaire" (ditto) who did the obligatory criticizing of the media for the benefit of the media.
The paper also quoted prominent lawyer Jean-Claude Hebert saying that "The norms go against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and are therefore unconstitutional."
Whoa. I hope you were holding onto your bonnet. Do we really have in this country a constitutional right to stone women? Why weren't we told?
It will be interesting to see how politicians react. Let's hope they at least keep their brains safely inside their heads.
Brigitte Pellerin's column appears Tuesday and Thursday.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 670
February 1st, 2007, 11:41 AM
Quoting hermanntrude
Don't know about that, but I for one am suggesting our government should put a cap on just how many are coming over. We have enough now, please and thank you!
you're suggesting that when a muslim immigrates to canada they might "forget" that murder is illegal here?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,642
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
February 1st, 2007, 11:45 AM
i agree that too many immigrants at once can be bad for a country. but how do you regulate it? who can you allow and who disallow? it's a difficult judgement to make without being racist or pissing people off
i agree that too many immigrants at once can be bad for a country. but how do you regulate it? who can you allow and who disallow? it's a difficult judgement to make without being racist or pissing people off
Electoral Member
Posts: 909
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 1st, 2007, 11:49 AM
Why would it be so terrible to tell newcommers, this is a great country but this is where we need you talents... be a good citezen, work there for 5 years and then you are free to go anywhere in Canada..we have graduated drivers licences..why not graduated citizenship?
Quoting marygaspe
I sorta agree, whereas I don't believe that we so much need a cap we do nedd to be able to tell new immigrants where to settle. Fort McMurray is dieing for workers while most of our new immigrates land in Toronto, Vancouver or Ottawa...where there is not the work, to much ghettoization.
Don't know about that, but I for one am suggesting our government should put a cap on just how many are coming over. We have enough now, please and thank you!
Why would it be so terrible to tell newcommers, this is a great country but this is where we need you talents... be a good citezen, work there for 5 years and then you are free to go anywhere in Canada..we have graduated drivers licences..why not graduated citizenship?
House Member
Posts: 3,167
February 1st, 2007, 11:52 AM
It's obviously a judgment that's easily made by the great majority of the world's countries. We're so tied up in PC knots that other countries refuse to tie that we've become this laughingstock. I haven't heard of the Chinese having a problem controlling their borders or selecting immigrants. Or Japan. Canada must not become a dumping ground for the world's problems. We have to be choosy. And make sure the families of immigrants are as well educated and law abiding as their key entrant. Good start!
It's obviously a judgment that's easily made by the great majority of the world's countries. We're so tied up in PC knots that other countries refuse to tie that we've become this laughingstock. I haven't heard of the Chinese having a problem controlling their borders or selecting immigrants. Or Japan. Canada must not become a dumping ground for the world's problems. We have to be choosy. And make sure the families of immigrants are as well educated and law abiding as their key entrant. Good start!
Clever Clogs
Posts: 670
February 1st, 2007, 11:52 AM
Quoting ottawabill
Good idea. I live about an hour away from Windsor, another Ontario city they seem to flock to. When we go shopping in windsor, I feel like I've entered Saudia Arabia sometimes!
I sorta agree, whereas I don't believe that we so much need a cap we do nedd to be able to tell new immigrants where to settle. Fort McMurray is dieing for workers while most of our new immigrates land in Toronto, Vancouver or Ottawa...where there is not the work, to much ghettoization.
Why would it be so terrible to tell newcommers, this is a great country but this is where we need you talents... be a good citezen, work there for 5 years and then you are free to go anywhere in Canada..we have graduated drivers licences..why not graduated citizenship?
Why would it be so terrible to tell newcommers, this is a great country but this is where we need you talents... be a good citezen, work there for 5 years and then you are free to go anywhere in Canada..we have graduated drivers licences..why not graduated citizenship?
Electoral Member
Posts: 909
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 1st, 2007, 12:04 PM
I live an hour south of Ottawa, in the small towns around me we do have visible minorities...people how learn the language, open stores to serve everyone, give money to local charities, practise their religon..you know the stuff everyone else does....there is nothing wrong with a melting pot.....there is only something wrong with true racism.. Hating someone because of colour..
My wife is Asian, I an standard white, my kids are both...we have no proplem where we live,,why? cause we act like everyone else...just may not look it.
Quoting marygaspe
That's exactly the problem with ghettos, it allows everyone to act the same as "back in the old country" that and our Multi-cultural policies.
Good idea. I live about an hour away from Windsor, another Ontario city they seem to flock to. When we go shopping in windsor, I feel like I've entered Saudia Arabia sometimes!
I live an hour south of Ottawa, in the small towns around me we do have visible minorities...people how learn the language, open stores to serve everyone, give money to local charities, practise their religon..you know the stuff everyone else does....there is nothing wrong with a melting pot.....there is only something wrong with true racism.. Hating someone because of colour..
My wife is Asian, I an standard white, my kids are both...we have no proplem where we live,,why? cause we act like everyone else...just may not look it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,642
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
February 1st, 2007, 12:10 PM
Quoting ottawabill
speaking as an atypical immigrant, what would have happened to me? i'd probably get mashed to peices trying to work on the rigs in fort mac. i'm much more useful down here at the U of A.
I sorta agree, whereas I don't believe that we so much need a cap we do nedd to be able to tell new immigrants where to settle. Fort McMurray is dieing for workers while most of our new immigrates land in Toronto, Vancouver or Ottawa...where there is not the work, to much ghettoization.
Why would it be so terrible to tell newcommers, this is a great country but this is where we need you talents... be a good citezen, work there for 5 years and then you are free to go anywhere in Canada..we have graduated drivers licences..why not graduated citizenship?
Why would it be so terrible to tell newcommers, this is a great country but this is where we need you talents... be a good citezen, work there for 5 years and then you are free to go anywhere in Canada..we have graduated drivers licences..why not graduated citizenship?
House Member
Posts: 3,306
February 1st, 2007, 12:52 PM
I think people are forgetting the reason for immigration.
Canada should not be allowing Immigrants "just because". I don't care where the immigrants are from, be they Australian, British, Chinese or Arabic.
A society should only allow new people in when they are needed. Businesses don't give people jobs and paychecks if they don't need them.
We need more workers, we do not need more workers in the big cities. We need them in small towns.
When my grandparents immigrated they were not allowed to immediately move into a city, they had to work on a farm.
And they didn't bitch about it, it wasn't unfair. Canada had something they wanted, So they gave something to Canada it needed (Rural Workers), its a trade. Once you have paid your dues then you get the reward.
And would it really be so bad to have rural Canada exposed to foriegn cultures?
I think people are forgetting the reason for immigration.
Canada should not be allowing Immigrants "just because". I don't care where the immigrants are from, be they Australian, British, Chinese or Arabic.
A society should only allow new people in when they are needed. Businesses don't give people jobs and paychecks if they don't need them.
We need more workers, we do not need more workers in the big cities. We need them in small towns.
When my grandparents immigrated they were not allowed to immediately move into a city, they had to work on a farm.
And they didn't bitch about it, it wasn't unfair. Canada had something they wanted, So they gave something to Canada it needed (Rural Workers), its a trade. Once you have paid your dues then you get the reward.
And would it really be so bad to have rural Canada exposed to foriegn cultures?
Electoral Member
Posts: 909
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 1st, 2007, 12:54 PM
Quoting hermanntrude
yeesch,,just an example ok!!! all I'm getting at is ..we need people in certain areas of Canada whats wrong with having people go where they are needed...
speaking as an atypical immigrant, what would have happened to me? i'd probably get mashed to peices trying to work on the rigs in fort mac. i'm much more useful down here at the U of A.
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Posts: 6,642
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
February 1st, 2007, 12:58 PM
no problem at all. just imagining how it'd all work out. Probably it's a good idea but it'd need a lot of admin. write to your MP maybe? could be an idea worth putting forward
no problem at all. just imagining how it'd all work out. Probably it's a good idea but it'd need a lot of admin. write to your MP maybe? could be an idea worth putting forward
Electoral Member
Posts: 909
Location: Eastern Ontario
Location: Eastern Ontario
February 1st, 2007, 01:12 PM
need a majority government first...btw I also think we should do that for Med school as well..maybe we even pay part/all the Med school bills if a Doctor is willing to go work in a northern or rural area requireing Doctors for say 5 years...good deal to get your education..the small community gets a doctor, and the Doctor is still free to start a good practise in the city 5 years later...
need a majority government first...btw I also think we should do that for Med school as well..maybe we even pay part/all the Med school bills if a Doctor is willing to go work in a northern or rural area requireing Doctors for say 5 years...good deal to get your education..the small community gets a doctor, and the Doctor is still free to start a good practise in the city 5 years later...
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
February 1st, 2007, 02:26 PM
Quoting ottawabill
What sort of Asian? My wife is Filipino, so I have some experience in what you write about.
That's exactly the problem with ghettos, it allows everyone to act the same as "back in the old country" that and our Multi-cultural policies.
I live an hour south of Ottawa, in the small towns around me we do have visible minorities...people how learn the language, open stores to serve everyone, give money to local charities, practise their religon..you know the stuff everyone else does....there is nothing wrong with a melting pot.....there is only something wrong with true racism.. Hating someone because of colour..
My wife is Asian, I an standard white, my kids are both...we have no proplem where we live,,why? cause we act like everyone else...just may not look it.
I live an hour south of Ottawa, in the small towns around me we do have visible minorities...people how learn the language, open stores to serve everyone, give money to local charities, practise their religon..you know the stuff everyone else does....there is nothing wrong with a melting pot.....there is only something wrong with true racism.. Hating someone because of colour..
My wife is Asian, I an standard white, my kids are both...we have no proplem where we live,,why? cause we act like everyone else...just may not look it.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,897
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
February 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM
If we were to move to there country, we'd have alot of rules and ways to abide to. and we would not argue it!
In the news -a muslum women aplied for her drivers licence and the photo she wore a berka!
-A jewish sect (name I forget) asked the YMCA to tint there window so to not see the women exercising in there tights.
-An ambulance driver was not allowed to eat his ham sandwich at the Jewish hospital , it was not 'kosher' . That hospital is paid by public funds
This is getting out of hand .We don't need to excuse our selves for what we are .We should assume who we are!
Quoting mapleleafgirl
Really this thing is not so much against religion but the room they take in a community " move aside we are here!" attitude. Women have fought for there rights here. the jews were allowed to seat in the quebec parliment way before anywhere else in Canada.
okay, im just asking so everybody take a downer..im not saying i support it, but just cuious, so what is lots of muslims move to canada? i mean, as long as they obey the laws who cares what religion they are??again, just asking!!!!
If we were to move to there country, we'd have alot of rules and ways to abide to. and we would not argue it!
In the news -a muslum women aplied for her drivers licence and the photo she wore a berka!
-A jewish sect (name I forget) asked the YMCA to tint there window so to not see the women exercising in there tights.
-An ambulance driver was not allowed to eat his ham sandwich at the Jewish hospital , it was not 'kosher' . That hospital is paid by public funds
This is getting out of hand .We don't need to excuse our selves for what we are .We should assume who we are!
Clever Clogs
Posts: 524 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Location: Montreal, Quebec
February 11th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Quoting Viagrastiff
Mon Dieu! We have more to worry about from the damned English than muslims.
Really this thing is not so much against religion but the room they take in a community " move aside we are here!" attitude. Women have fought for there rights here. the jews were allowed to seat in the quebec parliment way before anywhere else in Canada.
If we were to move to there country, we'd have alot of rules and ways to abide to. and we would not argue it!
In the news -a muslum women aplied for her drivers licence and the photo she wore a berka!
-A jewish sect (name I forget) asked the YMCA to tint there window so to not see the women exercising in there tights.
-An ambulance driver was not allowed to eat his ham sandwich at the Jewish hospital , it was not 'kosher' . That hospital is paid by public funds
This is getting out of hand .We don't need to excuse our selves for what we are .We should assume who we are!
If we were to move to there country, we'd have alot of rules and ways to abide to. and we would not argue it!
In the news -a muslum women aplied for her drivers licence and the photo she wore a berka!
-A jewish sect (name I forget) asked the YMCA to tint there window so to not see the women exercising in there tights.
-An ambulance driver was not allowed to eat his ham sandwich at the Jewish hospital , it was not 'kosher' . That hospital is paid by public funds
This is getting out of hand .We don't need to excuse our selves for what we are .We should assume who we are!
Clever Clogs
Posts: 634
Location: Quebec
Location: Quebec
February 11th, 2007, 02:56 PM
You better wake up and change you mind because if you don't you will realize that there are many more Muslins than damned English and you will soon loose you precious Quebecois way of life. You should read the real true history of Quebec and not that trumped up version taught in schools.
You better wake up and change you mind because if you don't you will realize that there are many more Muslins than damned English and you will soon loose you precious Quebecois way of life. You should read the real true history of Quebec and not that trumped up version taught in schools.
