Member
Posts: 218 
Location: Alberta
Location: Alberta
December 23rd, 2005, 01:28 PM
I feel bad for the people of Saskatchewan, every year they see another few thousand people head out. Why is it when there is actualy a labor shortage in the cities, and the economy is supposed to be good, and they have all that oil, they still continue to see their people leave. Over the last decade or so they have seen the population in Saskatchewan go from 1,030,000 to 992,000 currently.
In contrast the population of Alberta has been steadily increasing with the province adding approximately 65,000 in the same time period(1 year period). That is quite an increase in population seeing as how Quebec a much more populous province only adds about 50,000 people a year. Alberta's growth is only matched in sheer numbers when you compare it with Ontairo, a province almost 4 times the population. BC also has a high growth rate as well.
I feel bad for the people of Saskatchewan, every year they see another few thousand people head out. Why is it when there is actualy a labor shortage in the cities, and the economy is supposed to be good, and they have all that oil, they still continue to see their people leave. Over the last decade or so they have seen the population in Saskatchewan go from 1,030,000 to 992,000 currently.
In contrast the population of Alberta has been steadily increasing with the province adding approximately 65,000 in the same time period(1 year period). That is quite an increase in population seeing as how Quebec a much more populous province only adds about 50,000 people a year. Alberta's growth is only matched in sheer numbers when you compare it with Ontairo, a province almost 4 times the population. BC also has a high growth rate as well.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
December 23rd, 2005, 02:00 PM
That's because the people of Sasakatchewan are very giving, Roy. They feel they have a duty to send their people out to help the obviously backwards Albertans. :P
Actually, it's serious problem, but it's slowly getting better.
It actually has its roots in the farming culture. The parents have a farm and 14 kids. Only one kid, usually the eldest boy, can have the farm and make a go of it. The rest have to go someplace else. That was the cities first, but as people became more mobile it became other provinces. That doesn't happen so much anymore, but it set the pattern.
Lately there have been a bevy of other issues.
Saskatchewan kept educating people when there were no jobs there. Those people were lured to Alberta and Ontario where the Klein and Harris governments refused to invest in their own citizens.
There has been one farm crisis after another for the last couple of decades. The result is that farms get bigger and the number of people who make a living from them get smaller.
The Devine government. Saskatchewan is still recovering from that ugly legacy. They stopped virtually every diversification program and blew the economy so bad that there was no money to restart the programs once Devine was finally gone and many of his ministers in prison.
The economy. Saskatchewan hit the recession of the 1980's early and came out of it late. A lot of that is related to the Devine government.
Multiple skill sets. How do you recognise a University of Saskatchewan grad? He's the guy who goes out and fixes the tractor when he's done balancing your books for you. Once the tractor is fixed he'll seed your crops for you. After that he'll frame a house or write a book. Educated farm people are sought after because they have a wide knowledge base and aren't afraid to do work. They are also a somewhat recognised subset in the NGO community, which is really weird considering how few of them there are.
The reality is that the province is doing well now though. That's in spite of low wheat prices, BSE, drought, flood, and grasshoppers. The diversification projects are finally yielding some returns.
The province will grow eventually. It will do so in a slow but steady manner...not in boom like Alberta has.
That's because the people of Sasakatchewan are very giving, Roy. They feel they have a duty to send their people out to help the obviously backwards Albertans. :P
Actually, it's serious problem, but it's slowly getting better.
It actually has its roots in the farming culture. The parents have a farm and 14 kids. Only one kid, usually the eldest boy, can have the farm and make a go of it. The rest have to go someplace else. That was the cities first, but as people became more mobile it became other provinces. That doesn't happen so much anymore, but it set the pattern.
Lately there have been a bevy of other issues.
Saskatchewan kept educating people when there were no jobs there. Those people were lured to Alberta and Ontario where the Klein and Harris governments refused to invest in their own citizens.
There has been one farm crisis after another for the last couple of decades. The result is that farms get bigger and the number of people who make a living from them get smaller.
The Devine government. Saskatchewan is still recovering from that ugly legacy. They stopped virtually every diversification program and blew the economy so bad that there was no money to restart the programs once Devine was finally gone and many of his ministers in prison.
The economy. Saskatchewan hit the recession of the 1980's early and came out of it late. A lot of that is related to the Devine government.
Multiple skill sets. How do you recognise a University of Saskatchewan grad? He's the guy who goes out and fixes the tractor when he's done balancing your books for you. Once the tractor is fixed he'll seed your crops for you. After that he'll frame a house or write a book. Educated farm people are sought after because they have a wide knowledge base and aren't afraid to do work. They are also a somewhat recognised subset in the NGO community, which is really weird considering how few of them there are.
The reality is that the province is doing well now though. That's in spite of low wheat prices, BSE, drought, flood, and grasshoppers. The diversification projects are finally yielding some returns.
The province will grow eventually. It will do so in a slow but steady manner...not in boom like Alberta has.
Member
Posts: 218
Location: Alberta
Location: Alberta
December 23rd, 2005, 02:19 PM
Every year I come here there is another family member or friend that has made to move to Alberta, and it is sad because many of them have gone to school in the U of S and cannot find the jobs they are looking for in Sask.
The one thing I find interesting is that your province Blair actualy seems to be growing. Sure it is a very small marginal growth, but hey you should be celebrating that you are not in decline. Sure it is only 1/15 of Albertas growth, but it is still growth. Maybe one day you guys can get the Jets back.....
Quote:
I sure hope you are right. Right now I am in Saskatchewan for Christmas and I am hearing all this news in the papers and the radio that I thought I would bring this issue up. I still though that with the oil here in Sask they would be able to have a mini boom, but I guess thats not the case.
The province will grow eventually. It will do so in a slow but steady manner...not in boom like Alberta has.
Every year I come here there is another family member or friend that has made to move to Alberta, and it is sad because many of them have gone to school in the U of S and cannot find the jobs they are looking for in Sask.
The one thing I find interesting is that your province Blair actualy seems to be growing. Sure it is a very small marginal growth, but hey you should be celebrating that you are not in decline. Sure it is only 1/15 of Albertas growth, but it is still growth. Maybe one day you guys can get the Jets back.....
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,891
December 23rd, 2005, 02:47 PM
IMHO........I think that Sask....is still defining itself...and with that come the growing pains. It has been the quiet /understated province for a long time. It is not prone to do any thing flashy, sensational or dramatic.
from what I can see/gather. the rev captured the essence quite effectively.
Not sure why ......but one gets the impression that Sask is the hardest working population ......ergo has a strong ,constructive WORK ETHIC. One also gets the impression that the population is well grounded in reality......as in realistic .
(perhaps the rev could speak to those impressions--
Comparing it to Alberta ( the US Fascimile) or other provinces does no justice. In fact such comparisons seem silly as each province should be recognized for their own uniqueness.
IMHO........I think that Sask....is still defining itself...and with that come the growing pains. It has been the quiet /understated province for a long time. It is not prone to do any thing flashy, sensational or dramatic.
from what I can see/gather. the rev captured the essence quite effectively.
Not sure why ......but one gets the impression that Sask is the hardest working population ......ergo has a strong ,constructive WORK ETHIC. One also gets the impression that the population is well grounded in reality......as in realistic .
(perhaps the rev could speak to those impressions--
Comparing it to Alberta ( the US Fascimile) or other provinces does no justice. In fact such comparisons seem silly as each province should be recognized for their own uniqueness.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
December 23rd, 2005, 02:53 PM
The first is that the kids intend to stay. My brothers and my friends there have kids in their late teens and early twenties. Those kids have no intention of moving.
The second is that people are starting to come back or just move in. There are two couples who moved to my mother's tiny town from the US (Montana) because the cost of living is low and they liked the place. A lot of my friends who moved to Calgary or Toronto when they were young are either back or are wanting to go back. There are also baby boomers who are starting to retire and are heading home. They've been away their entire working lives and now they have pensions and are going back.
It isn't enough to offset the people leaving yet, but it's a start. The people moving back tend to be fairly well-off. The people who are staying tend to be educated.
Manitoba and Saskatchewan are very similar provinces with very similar chllenges.
Quote:
I'm not sure what part of the province you're in, but I see two trends that give me a lot of hope for Saskatchewan.
I sure hope you are right. Right now I am in Saskatchewan for Christmas and I am hearing all this news in the papers and the radio that I thought I would bring this issue up. I still though that with the oil here in Sask they would be able to have a mini boom, but I guess thats not the case.
The first is that the kids intend to stay. My brothers and my friends there have kids in their late teens and early twenties. Those kids have no intention of moving.
The second is that people are starting to come back or just move in. There are two couples who moved to my mother's tiny town from the US (Montana) because the cost of living is low and they liked the place. A lot of my friends who moved to Calgary or Toronto when they were young are either back or are wanting to go back. There are also baby boomers who are starting to retire and are heading home. They've been away their entire working lives and now they have pensions and are going back.
It isn't enough to offset the people leaving yet, but it's a start. The people moving back tend to be fairly well-off. The people who are staying tend to be educated.
Quote:
Again, that's due largely to the diversification efforts of the NDP government. We also have some oil, but the provincial government has worked very hard to attract industry and office workers and the transportation industry has a toehold here.
The one thing I find interesting is that your province Blair actualy seems to be growing. Sure it is a very small marginal growth, but hey you should be celebrating that you are not in decline.
Manitoba and Saskatchewan are very similar provinces with very similar chllenges.
Member
Posts: 218
Location: Alberta
Location: Alberta
December 23rd, 2005, 03:28 PM
This is another reason I feel we need better immigration policy with both the federal government and the provincial governments. Instead of having well educated immigrants moving to Toronto and Vancouver to work as cab drivers and other underappreciated jobs we should be working to attract these people to the provinces that need them.
Provinces in the maratimes and on the praries see a decline in skill to larger more prosperous provinces. We should be working to make sure immigrants settle in Sask to fill in the labor shortages, and maybe make it a condition that they must work in there until they are actual citizens. We should specify the certain amount each province would need and act accordingly. Better skill and education recognition is also an area where the current Liberal governent has failed. And now they are planning to raise immigration levels, I think this needs to be looked at again.
Even in Alberta there is a massive labor shortage. It would be great if we were able to import more labor to work in the oilsands and up north.
This is another reason I feel we need better immigration policy with both the federal government and the provincial governments. Instead of having well educated immigrants moving to Toronto and Vancouver to work as cab drivers and other underappreciated jobs we should be working to attract these people to the provinces that need them.
Provinces in the maratimes and on the praries see a decline in skill to larger more prosperous provinces. We should be working to make sure immigrants settle in Sask to fill in the labor shortages, and maybe make it a condition that they must work in there until they are actual citizens. We should specify the certain amount each province would need and act accordingly. Better skill and education recognition is also an area where the current Liberal governent has failed. And now they are planning to raise immigration levels, I think this needs to be looked at again.
Even in Alberta there is a massive labor shortage. It would be great if we were able to import more labor to work in the oilsands and up north.
Bright Spark
Posts: 277
December 23rd, 2005, 03:45 PM
What I found interesting when I've been out in the energy industry in Saskatchewan is the demographics. Most of the population I saw was either young natives or older whites. Of course there's folks from all demographics but these two groups really are obvious. There's just not a 'throng' of the 18 to 35 year old whites like you see in Alberta.
My sister is visiting here in Calgary for the holidays from Vancouver and what struck her was how 'white' Calgary is. It's mostly in-migration from the rest of Canada and Europe. There's Asians and blacks but not just anywhere near the numbers in other growing cities. Mayber that's in part why Calgary culture is a bit 'blah'. Maybe we could pep it up with a bit more diversity. The 'cowboy' thing at Stampeded gets a bit worn and a lot of folks roll their eyes and take the time to go on vacation.
a note: go to a CFL football games here in Calgary between the Stampeders and the Roughriders. Half of the stadium is cheering for Saskatchewan! I'm not a big sports fan but if you ever go to just one game that's the one to pick. The stadium is is a sea of Green roughrider fans and Red stamps. You can take the Saskatchewaner out of Saskatchewan but you can't take the Roughrider out of the Saskatchewaner.
What I found interesting when I've been out in the energy industry in Saskatchewan is the demographics. Most of the population I saw was either young natives or older whites. Of course there's folks from all demographics but these two groups really are obvious. There's just not a 'throng' of the 18 to 35 year old whites like you see in Alberta.
My sister is visiting here in Calgary for the holidays from Vancouver and what struck her was how 'white' Calgary is. It's mostly in-migration from the rest of Canada and Europe. There's Asians and blacks but not just anywhere near the numbers in other growing cities. Mayber that's in part why Calgary culture is a bit 'blah'. Maybe we could pep it up with a bit more diversity. The 'cowboy' thing at Stampeded gets a bit worn and a lot of folks roll their eyes and take the time to go on vacation.
a note: go to a CFL football games here in Calgary between the Stampeders and the Roughriders. Half of the stadium is cheering for Saskatchewan! I'm not a big sports fan but if you ever go to just one game that's the one to pick. The stadium is is a sea of Green roughrider fans and Red stamps. You can take the Saskatchewaner out of Saskatchewan but you can't take the Roughrider out of the Saskatchewaner.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,397 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
December 23rd, 2005, 04:18 PM
Just to add a few things to what the Rev said:
Saskatchewan's population has hovered around the million mark for about 80 years. If nobody'd left it'd probably be around two million, but most of that extra million is in Alberta. Unemployment's rarely been perceived as much of a problem in Saskatchewan because of that. Saskatchewan exports its unemployment. It also seems worth noting here that if you remove all the economic activity in Alberta associated with the oil and gas business, what's left looks pretty much like Saskatchewan. A little harder to explain is the obvious difference in politics, which I suspect a careful analysis would show is related to immigration in the early years of the 20th century. The people who settled in Saskatchewan and Alberta came from different places; most particularly, there was a much larger influx of Americans into Alberta.
I also suspect that the frequent NDP governments in Saskatchewan are widely perceived--unfairly I think--to be unfriendly to business. There's some small truth in it, in that some of the provincial crown corporations are doing things that should be left to the private sector. There's no reason why SaskTel should be in the home security business, for instance, nor should it be providing cable tv services, it ought to be leveraging its telecommunications expertise to give a competitive advantage to private firms to provide those services in Saskatchewan and elsewhere. But I don't get to make those decisions. Private property and private enterprise, however, are certainly alive and well in Saskatchewan.
And speaking personally, I find it a great place to live. I've lived in Regina and Saskatoon for most of my 50+ years, and never saw any reason to want to go anywhere else. Clean air, clean water, lots of room, and anything anyone could possibly need in the way of entertainment, education, professional services, you name it, is readily available. It is also, I find, a very sane and civilized little place compared to most places I've visited over the years, and that in no small measure is part of the legacy of the inimitable Tommy Douglas.
Just to add a few things to what the Rev said:
Saskatchewan's population has hovered around the million mark for about 80 years. If nobody'd left it'd probably be around two million, but most of that extra million is in Alberta. Unemployment's rarely been perceived as much of a problem in Saskatchewan because of that. Saskatchewan exports its unemployment. It also seems worth noting here that if you remove all the economic activity in Alberta associated with the oil and gas business, what's left looks pretty much like Saskatchewan. A little harder to explain is the obvious difference in politics, which I suspect a careful analysis would show is related to immigration in the early years of the 20th century. The people who settled in Saskatchewan and Alberta came from different places; most particularly, there was a much larger influx of Americans into Alberta.
I also suspect that the frequent NDP governments in Saskatchewan are widely perceived--unfairly I think--to be unfriendly to business. There's some small truth in it, in that some of the provincial crown corporations are doing things that should be left to the private sector. There's no reason why SaskTel should be in the home security business, for instance, nor should it be providing cable tv services, it ought to be leveraging its telecommunications expertise to give a competitive advantage to private firms to provide those services in Saskatchewan and elsewhere. But I don't get to make those decisions. Private property and private enterprise, however, are certainly alive and well in Saskatchewan.
And speaking personally, I find it a great place to live. I've lived in Regina and Saskatoon for most of my 50+ years, and never saw any reason to want to go anywhere else. Clean air, clean water, lots of room, and anything anyone could possibly need in the way of entertainment, education, professional services, you name it, is readily available. It is also, I find, a very sane and civilized little place compared to most places I've visited over the years, and that in no small measure is part of the legacy of the inimitable Tommy Douglas.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
December 23rd, 2005, 05:49 PM
It changed the province. It's a harsh place and that made it more gentle.
Quote:
Let's start with that, and I think that is really the essence of the place. Look at Tommy's legacy...roads, healthcare, a declaration of human rights way before the UN had one, a recognition that people who did physical labour are as important as men in suits.
It is also, I find, a very sane and civilized little place compared to most places I've visited over the years, and that in no small measure is part of the legacy of the inimitable Tommy Douglas.
It changed the province. It's a harsh place and that made it more gentle.
Bright Spark
Posts: 277
December 23rd, 2005, 06:38 PM
Dexter, I agree with much of what you write.
The only issue I have with Saskatchewan is what the demographics are going to be like in 20 or 40 years. will there be a big enough tax base to support education, health, etc. This isn't to put an assault on the Saskatchewan health or education system, some of the finest in the country, but an integration of some of those services with Alberta might be worth considering .
As an Albertan (well a Nova Scotian-Albertan) I recognize that Alberta benefits as much from the education system in Saskatchewan as anyone and perhaps we should directly pick up a portion of the tab. In health care it's more just a 'critical mass' of specialists, technology etc. that Saskatchewaners might want to benefit from in future. Then again, maybe those health care exchanges already happen and Alberta just bills Saskatchewan or the reverse.
Dexter, I agree with much of what you write.
The only issue I have with Saskatchewan is what the demographics are going to be like in 20 or 40 years. will there be a big enough tax base to support education, health, etc. This isn't to put an assault on the Saskatchewan health or education system, some of the finest in the country, but an integration of some of those services with Alberta might be worth considering .
As an Albertan (well a Nova Scotian-Albertan) I recognize that Alberta benefits as much from the education system in Saskatchewan as anyone and perhaps we should directly pick up a portion of the tab. In health care it's more just a 'critical mass' of specialists, technology etc. that Saskatchewaners might want to benefit from in future. Then again, maybe those health care exchanges already happen and Alberta just bills Saskatchewan or the reverse.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
December 23rd, 2005, 06:52 PM
Maybe Calberty took his hat off his head an placed it on his ass so he could talk through it.
In 20 to 40 years, Saskatchewan will be benefitting from the same kind of boom that the rest of Canada went through as the boomers came of age. The trick is lasting that long.
Maybe Calberty took his hat off his head an placed it on his ass so he could talk through it.
In 20 to 40 years, Saskatchewan will be benefitting from the same kind of boom that the rest of Canada went through as the boomers came of age. The trick is lasting that long.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,669
Location: California
Location: California
December 23rd, 2005, 08:49 PM
No offense to Saskatchewan, but I can see why people leave it. My whole extended family on my dad's side is from there and my uncle tried to get me to move out there when I finished nursing school... if I hadn't known about the winters and the lack of entertainment I might have fallen for it.
No offense to Saskatchewan, but I can see why people leave it. My whole extended family on my dad's side is from there and my uncle tried to get me to move out there when I finished nursing school... if I hadn't known about the winters and the lack of entertainment I might have fallen for it.
Bright Spark
Posts: 277
December 23rd, 2005, 09:11 PM
I like large parts of Saskatchewan but then again, I like hiking, fishing and the outdoors. Saskatoon and north of the city is quite scenic and has a lot to offer the outdoor enthusiast.
Quoting
What? you're not into curling?
No offense to Saskatchewan, but I can see why people leave it. My whole extended family on my dad's side is from there and my uncle tried to get me to move out there when I finished nursing school... if I hadn't known about the winters and the lack of entertainment I might have fallen for it.
I like large parts of Saskatchewan but then again, I like hiking, fishing and the outdoors. Saskatoon and north of the city is quite scenic and has a lot to offer the outdoor enthusiast.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,669
Location: California
Location: California
December 23rd, 2005, 09:13 PM
Quoting
I like large parts of Saskatchewan but then again, I like hiking, fishing and the outdoors. Saskatoon and north of the city is quite scenic and has a lot to offer the outdoor enthusiast.
Nope. I like the outdoors, but not when it's below zero half of the time. :P California is one of the best decisions I've ever made!
Quoting
What? you're not into curling?
No offense to Saskatchewan, but I can see why people leave it. My whole extended family on my dad's side is from there and my uncle tried to get me to move out there when I finished nursing school... if I hadn't known about the winters and the lack of entertainment I might have fallen for it.
I like large parts of Saskatchewan but then again, I like hiking, fishing and the outdoors. Saskatoon and north of the city is quite scenic and has a lot to offer the outdoor enthusiast.
Bright Spark
Posts: 277
December 24th, 2005, 07:28 PM
From the CBC
Party leaders urged to address Alberta labour shortage
Last Updated Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:31:04 EST
CBC News
"Business leaders in Calgary are trying to put Alberta's chronic labour shortage on the election radar.
The Calgary Chamber of Commerce has sent letters to the leaders of the federal parties asking specifically what they'll do to address the problem. "
Folks in Saskatchewan should be on the alert! Alberta will be sending press gangs into Saskatchean towns and cities. You might find yourself with a bump on the head, tied up in a sack and waking up the next day with a pick and shovel in the middle of an oilsands project.
From the CBC
Party leaders urged to address Alberta labour shortage
Last Updated Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:31:04 EST
CBC News
"Business leaders in Calgary are trying to put Alberta's chronic labour shortage on the election radar.
The Calgary Chamber of Commerce has sent letters to the leaders of the federal parties asking specifically what they'll do to address the problem. "
Folks in Saskatchewan should be on the alert! Alberta will be sending press gangs into Saskatchean towns and cities. You might find yourself with a bump on the head, tied up in a sack and waking up the next day with a pick and shovel in the middle of an oilsands project.
the clan of the claw
Posts: 1,976
December 24th, 2005, 07:31 PM
ha ha ... the poor old praries.
i too have no real use for them! my only thoughts on albertchewanitoba is how long it takes to fly over or how long it takes to drive through. Canmore to Kenora is the no-man's land. (no offense to those that love it cold, flat, and buggy)
ha ha ... the poor old praries.
i too have no real use for them! my only thoughts on albertchewanitoba is how long it takes to fly over or how long it takes to drive through. Canmore to Kenora is the no-man's land. (no offense to those that love it cold, flat, and buggy)
