Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,397 
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
April 6th, 2006, 11:56 PM
What light is that, Hank?
What light is that, Hank?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,397
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
April 7th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Uh huh. Alberta can afford to do a lot of things Saskatchewan can't, thanks solely to the size of its oil and gas sector. It's not a matter of seeing the light, it's a matter of what's possible. Grant Devine tried to remake Saskatchewan in Alberta's image in the 1980s and just about bankrupted the province, while allowing many of his people to engage in nefarious activities (claims he knew nothing about them, so he's either a liar or very bad at the job) that resulted in a dozen or so of them doing jail time for misuse of public funds. Took Saskatchewan most of a decade to recover from that. That was at about the same time Bryan Mulroney was running up huge federal deficits that took Canada most of a decade to recover from... Conservative governments I've lived under recently have singularly failed to impress me.
No thanks.
Uh huh. Alberta can afford to do a lot of things Saskatchewan can't, thanks solely to the size of its oil and gas sector. It's not a matter of seeing the light, it's a matter of what's possible. Grant Devine tried to remake Saskatchewan in Alberta's image in the 1980s and just about bankrupted the province, while allowing many of his people to engage in nefarious activities (claims he knew nothing about them, so he's either a liar or very bad at the job) that resulted in a dozen or so of them doing jail time for misuse of public funds. Took Saskatchewan most of a decade to recover from that. That was at about the same time Bryan Mulroney was running up huge federal deficits that took Canada most of a decade to recover from... Conservative governments I've lived under recently have singularly failed to impress me.
No thanks.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,795
April 7th, 2006, 10:16 AM
Quote:
I somehow get the feeling Hank, that you think Alberta's good fortune is because of the management genius of Ralph Klein and his balanced budgets. I'll let you in on a little secret. With the oil and gas revenue that Klein has access to, a chimpanzee could have balanced the budget. Some chimpanzees might even have asked for more money from the oil companies.
you know, the one shining from alberta
Newbie
Posts: 6
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
July 1st, 2006, 07:58 PM
It amazes me how many have it so wrong. The reason Saskatchewan loses population is because its cities are deadbeats and the government’s corrupt. A person earning $20/hour eight hours/day five days/week for 50 weeks a year earns more than the average family income of Yorkton, SK. Western Saskatchewan is somewhat an anomaly being wealthier and having much fewer people than the eastern half of the province. Many communities in the west-central and southwest part of the province haven’t received government funding for roads, schools or healthcare for decades, not to mention they’re closer to Calgary or Edmonton than Regina or Saskatoon. Arguably you can call them Alberta's hinterlands. The only way you can drive to northwest Sask. is by taking Alberta’s Highway 63 to Fort Mac. The 14 kid family thing is a lie and I don’t know what the hell you're talking about. Two to three kids per family has been the norm for the past forty years.
No one invests in Saskatchewan because the taxes are high and the freight fees are literally $20 more per tonne compared to those in central Alberta. For example, Fort Saskatchewan, AB was recently chosen the site for a $65 million ethanol plant that will serve the entire Canadian prairies while the Government of Saskatchewan continues to waste millions subsidizing smaller facilites near the Manitoba border. A lot of the investment for the operation in Fort Sask. comes from actual Saskatchewan residents, not to mention a pasta plant operating in similar fashion elsewhere around Edmonton. As always, we’re literally fighting a battle with our own province.
It amazes me how many have it so wrong. The reason Saskatchewan loses population is because its cities are deadbeats and the government’s corrupt. A person earning $20/hour eight hours/day five days/week for 50 weeks a year earns more than the average family income of Yorkton, SK. Western Saskatchewan is somewhat an anomaly being wealthier and having much fewer people than the eastern half of the province. Many communities in the west-central and southwest part of the province haven’t received government funding for roads, schools or healthcare for decades, not to mention they’re closer to Calgary or Edmonton than Regina or Saskatoon. Arguably you can call them Alberta's hinterlands. The only way you can drive to northwest Sask. is by taking Alberta’s Highway 63 to Fort Mac. The 14 kid family thing is a lie and I don’t know what the hell you're talking about. Two to three kids per family has been the norm for the past forty years.
No one invests in Saskatchewan because the taxes are high and the freight fees are literally $20 more per tonne compared to those in central Alberta. For example, Fort Saskatchewan, AB was recently chosen the site for a $65 million ethanol plant that will serve the entire Canadian prairies while the Government of Saskatchewan continues to waste millions subsidizing smaller facilites near the Manitoba border. A lot of the investment for the operation in Fort Sask. comes from actual Saskatchewan residents, not to mention a pasta plant operating in similar fashion elsewhere around Edmonton. As always, we’re literally fighting a battle with our own province.
Newbie
Posts: 3
Location: Saskatchewan
Location: Saskatchewan
July 9th, 2006, 01:30 PM
As someone who is on their way out the Western door of Saskatchewan, I'll share the reasons why I'm planning to leave, because from everyone I've talked to in University, we all have pretty similar situations, and for some bizarre reason, people just can't seem to understand why the young are leaving.
1.) The province has taken action against University students leaving Saskatchewan by offering them high level job TERMS...okay so I've just spent $20+ grand to get an education, and I can either take a one year term with the Saskatchewan gov't (the only real employer here...if you don't believe me, look for a job!) that may or may not be renewed, and will likely never be more then a term position, because full time permanent jobs just don't happen in Saskatchewan OR I can take a job with an Alberta employer that is begging me to come, offering me a full time position where I stand a chance of paying off student debt. Granted the cost of living is higher, that's for sure...but news flash so are the wages, and even though in the end what I net might be the same or slightly smaller, at least its a job with a semblance of stability.
2.) If you ask any one in the baby boomer population why kids are leaving, they usually have no freaking clue, because they are sitting pretty with a high paying, full time gov't job with 6 weeks of vacation, and amazing benefits...unfortunately, they have taken all the good jobs. It is much harder to make a productive start these days then it was, because the baby boomers grew up at the perfect time when there were jobs aplenty, unfortunately, they took them all and left their kids nothing!
3.) I don't know the exact percentage, but when you add up all the people not contributing to taxes, and combine that with all the people who are living off of taxes, basically you get a very low percentage of people contributing a very high percentage of their income to taxes. And given the fact that there is a MASSIVE amount of baby boomers that are on the verge of retiring, and therefore contributing less to taxes, it is a scary situation for someone that is 24 to see, because frankly I don't want to pay the taxes of 3 or 4 people if I don't have to!
4.) Everyone else has moved, so why shouldn't I? That sounds stupid, right? I mean really, if everyone else jumped off a bridge, would I? No, but moving to Alberta doesn't lead to a broken neck! It's an honest truth that most people in my basic demographic (the white 18-35 year old that I read about in an earlier post) have moved to Alberta, including a large portion of my friends. Now I have nothing against older people, but frankly I want friends to be closer to my age, not older then my mom! There are a number of people moving back, its true, but they are generally much older then myself as well, really there just are not a lot of people my age here.
5.) The air of excitement and fun. Saskatchewan is a laid back easy going retirement province...I'm 24, I don't care! Alberta feels more exciting, the bars are better, the festivals are better, the shopping is better, the entertainment is better...or at least it seems that way, and lets face it, perception is often more powerful then reality. But I think that the reality is, is that when you see people your age having fun, its exciting, here I mostly see people in their 50's having fun...yeay? Sure I might spend more time driving to work in Alberta then I do in Saskatchewan...but that is because there are more PLACES and more PEOPLE to drive by.
6.) People seem more grounded in reality in Alberta then the do here. This idea might surprise people, but lets face it, for a province to have up roaring debates about daylight savings time for almost 4 decades means that the province really needs to get a life! I mean really, what does it say for us as a people, that we must argue an issue like that for almost 40 years? This province just never lets things go, if you do something, are think something, it just won't CHANGE.
7.) Change, oh my gosh I said the C-word!!! People here seem very anti change. I know some people aren't like it, but as a whole, this province is set in its ways and that's how it will stay.
All in all, there really isn't anything in Saskatchewan that isn't in Alberta, and that is why we move there rather then move to other provinces. Saskatchewan does have its advantages, it's a safe place to raise a family (although its the worst place to own a car, and the crime is high too) because you can spend more time at home then commuting. It's friendly, hard working, "homey" and there are activities, even though there aren't as much. Really its not that Saskatchewan is a BAD place to live, it's just not a GOOD place to live necessarily. And frankly if when I leave I hate it away, I'll just come back, but right now the grass is looking a lot greener on the other side of the fence...I guess its because the wheat is just so brown right now. I guess Saskatchewan's biggest problem is it is right next door to Alberta, because it is just so easy to leave with your friends and visit your family on the weekends.
As someone who is on their way out the Western door of Saskatchewan, I'll share the reasons why I'm planning to leave, because from everyone I've talked to in University, we all have pretty similar situations, and for some bizarre reason, people just can't seem to understand why the young are leaving.
1.) The province has taken action against University students leaving Saskatchewan by offering them high level job TERMS...okay so I've just spent $20+ grand to get an education, and I can either take a one year term with the Saskatchewan gov't (the only real employer here...if you don't believe me, look for a job!) that may or may not be renewed, and will likely never be more then a term position, because full time permanent jobs just don't happen in Saskatchewan OR I can take a job with an Alberta employer that is begging me to come, offering me a full time position where I stand a chance of paying off student debt. Granted the cost of living is higher, that's for sure...but news flash so are the wages, and even though in the end what I net might be the same or slightly smaller, at least its a job with a semblance of stability.
2.) If you ask any one in the baby boomer population why kids are leaving, they usually have no freaking clue, because they are sitting pretty with a high paying, full time gov't job with 6 weeks of vacation, and amazing benefits...unfortunately, they have taken all the good jobs. It is much harder to make a productive start these days then it was, because the baby boomers grew up at the perfect time when there were jobs aplenty, unfortunately, they took them all and left their kids nothing!
3.) I don't know the exact percentage, but when you add up all the people not contributing to taxes, and combine that with all the people who are living off of taxes, basically you get a very low percentage of people contributing a very high percentage of their income to taxes. And given the fact that there is a MASSIVE amount of baby boomers that are on the verge of retiring, and therefore contributing less to taxes, it is a scary situation for someone that is 24 to see, because frankly I don't want to pay the taxes of 3 or 4 people if I don't have to!
4.) Everyone else has moved, so why shouldn't I? That sounds stupid, right? I mean really, if everyone else jumped off a bridge, would I? No, but moving to Alberta doesn't lead to a broken neck! It's an honest truth that most people in my basic demographic (the white 18-35 year old that I read about in an earlier post) have moved to Alberta, including a large portion of my friends. Now I have nothing against older people, but frankly I want friends to be closer to my age, not older then my mom! There are a number of people moving back, its true, but they are generally much older then myself as well, really there just are not a lot of people my age here.
5.) The air of excitement and fun. Saskatchewan is a laid back easy going retirement province...I'm 24, I don't care! Alberta feels more exciting, the bars are better, the festivals are better, the shopping is better, the entertainment is better...or at least it seems that way, and lets face it, perception is often more powerful then reality. But I think that the reality is, is that when you see people your age having fun, its exciting, here I mostly see people in their 50's having fun...yeay? Sure I might spend more time driving to work in Alberta then I do in Saskatchewan...but that is because there are more PLACES and more PEOPLE to drive by.
6.) People seem more grounded in reality in Alberta then the do here. This idea might surprise people, but lets face it, for a province to have up roaring debates about daylight savings time for almost 4 decades means that the province really needs to get a life! I mean really, what does it say for us as a people, that we must argue an issue like that for almost 40 years? This province just never lets things go, if you do something, are think something, it just won't CHANGE.
7.) Change, oh my gosh I said the C-word!!! People here seem very anti change. I know some people aren't like it, but as a whole, this province is set in its ways and that's how it will stay.
All in all, there really isn't anything in Saskatchewan that isn't in Alberta, and that is why we move there rather then move to other provinces. Saskatchewan does have its advantages, it's a safe place to raise a family (although its the worst place to own a car, and the crime is high too) because you can spend more time at home then commuting. It's friendly, hard working, "homey" and there are activities, even though there aren't as much. Really its not that Saskatchewan is a BAD place to live, it's just not a GOOD place to live necessarily. And frankly if when I leave I hate it away, I'll just come back, but right now the grass is looking a lot greener on the other side of the fence...I guess its because the wheat is just so brown right now. I guess Saskatchewan's biggest problem is it is right next door to Alberta, because it is just so easy to leave with your friends and visit your family on the weekends.
Don't bother arguing, I KNOW!
Posts: 10,480
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
July 9th, 2006, 02:00 PM
Quoting
Did you just call Chavez a chimp? Quote:
I somehow get the feeling Hank, that you think Alberta's good fortune is because of the management genius of Ralph Klein and his balanced budgets. I'll let you in on a little secret. With the oil and gas revenue that Klein has access to, a chimpanzee could have balanced the budget. Some chimpanzees might even have asked for more money from the oil companies.
you know, the one shining from alberta
Bright Spark
Posts: 313
July 9th, 2006, 05:42 PM
The Alberta/Sask dichotomy is less than meets the eye. The boundary is somewhat artificial. Reasons for some Folks moving from much of Sask to Calgary aren't always that different from those movng from Vegreville or Milk river (in Alberta) to Calgary.
Saskatchewan doesn't have the big metropolitan center to attract young people. Calgary and Edmonton (like Vancouver, Toronto) have that modern critical mass to sustain their attraction to newcomers. Saskatchewan is like Newfoundland: it's losing the population game and that feeds on itself. As a strong environmentalist, I don't see this as a negative. Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have wonderful ecologies that have some of the pressure eased off. It would be a plus to have areas that are today ravaged by mono-grain culture return to natural grasslands.
Yes, there is also 'the attitude' to attract a certain type of people to Alberta. If a family back in Nova Scotia had five children...3 have left and those 3 are usually the educated, the go getters or even the black sheep with a lot of potential energy. Alberta is like a micro-model of Canada would have been 100 years ago...a society attracting self-reliant, pick-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap hard working individuals. most believing in themselves and their ability to make their own lives. Whiners aren't popular here other than targets for a quick kick in the ass.
Re Saskatchewan. Perhaps my recent trips there weren't representative. What stood out was the number of young natives. Most whites semed to be 40 plus in age and most people under 15 were natives....this was in Regina. The cultural mix of the province is quite interesting. There is also a low number of visible non-native minorites (also low in Alberta). Alberta has non-white immigration but it is dwarfed by white immigration from the rest of Canada. It seems that if I walk down a street in downtown Toronto or Vancouver, half the folks are non-white....in Regina half seemed native and, here in Calgary, 95% white. This will all add up to Canadian cities increasing their individual identities which is probably a positive.
The Alberta/Sask dichotomy is less than meets the eye. The boundary is somewhat artificial. Reasons for some Folks moving from much of Sask to Calgary aren't always that different from those movng from Vegreville or Milk river (in Alberta) to Calgary.
Saskatchewan doesn't have the big metropolitan center to attract young people. Calgary and Edmonton (like Vancouver, Toronto) have that modern critical mass to sustain their attraction to newcomers. Saskatchewan is like Newfoundland: it's losing the population game and that feeds on itself. As a strong environmentalist, I don't see this as a negative. Saskatchewan and Newfoundland have wonderful ecologies that have some of the pressure eased off. It would be a plus to have areas that are today ravaged by mono-grain culture return to natural grasslands.
Yes, there is also 'the attitude' to attract a certain type of people to Alberta. If a family back in Nova Scotia had five children...3 have left and those 3 are usually the educated, the go getters or even the black sheep with a lot of potential energy. Alberta is like a micro-model of Canada would have been 100 years ago...a society attracting self-reliant, pick-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap hard working individuals. most believing in themselves and their ability to make their own lives. Whiners aren't popular here other than targets for a quick kick in the ass.
Re Saskatchewan. Perhaps my recent trips there weren't representative. What stood out was the number of young natives. Most whites semed to be 40 plus in age and most people under 15 were natives....this was in Regina. The cultural mix of the province is quite interesting. There is also a low number of visible non-native minorites (also low in Alberta). Alberta has non-white immigration but it is dwarfed by white immigration from the rest of Canada. It seems that if I walk down a street in downtown Toronto or Vancouver, half the folks are non-white....in Regina half seemed native and, here in Calgary, 95% white. This will all add up to Canadian cities increasing their individual identities which is probably a positive.
Yo
Posts: 3,537
Location: Counting Flowers on the Wall
Location: Counting Flowers on the Wall
July 9th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Quote:
I lived in both Calgary and Saskatoon. I would say that's accurate, although I would have thought that had changed over the last 15yrs.
Re Saskatchewan. Perhaps my recent trips there weren't representative. What stood out was the number of young natives. Most whites semed to be 40 plus in age and most people under 15 were natives....this was in Regina. The cultural mix of the province is quite interesting. There is also a low number of visible non-native minorites (also low in Alberta). Alberta has non-white immigration but it is dwarfed by white immigration from the rest of Canada. It seems that if I walk down a street in downtown Toronto or Vancouver, half the folks are non-white....in Regina half seemed native and, here in Calgary, 95% white. This will all add up to Canadian cities increasing their individual identities which is probably a positive.
Newbie
Posts: 6
Location: Edmonton
Location: Edmonton
August 30th, 2006, 04:32 PM
Alberta is a lot more progressive than Saskatchewan. It is glee that I read the article that Medicine Hat may be getting a STARS helicopter base within one year!
http://www.medicinehatnews.com/article_2833.php
Think, southwest Saskatchewan will have better emergency services than Regina or Saskatoon. How embarassing for Saskatchewan. Word has it that Lloydminster may be getting a STARS helicopter base as well. Ambulances won't be going from Swift Current to Saskatoon or Regina anymore but to Medicine Hat and on to Calgary if necessary. Boy, the NDP sure did mess that one up.
Alberta is a lot more progressive than Saskatchewan. It is glee that I read the article that Medicine Hat may be getting a STARS helicopter base within one year!
http://www.medicinehatnews.com/article_2833.php
Think, southwest Saskatchewan will have better emergency services than Regina or Saskatoon. How embarassing for Saskatchewan. Word has it that Lloydminster may be getting a STARS helicopter base as well. Ambulances won't be going from Swift Current to Saskatoon or Regina anymore but to Medicine Hat and on to Calgary if necessary. Boy, the NDP sure did mess that one up.
Bright Spark
Posts: 377
September 2nd, 2006, 07:05 PM
Well, TPP and West. Can. Chick summed it up perfectly and Canada500 does not have a clue what he was talking about. Our prov. gov't is the most useless pieces of you know what there is.
As a business owner this government does absolutely nothing for small business other than chase you to Alberta, and they are not exactly sitting at the boarder with open arms for larger businesses either. With an election around the corner the NDP got right to work this spring trying to collect the votes. No young people left to vote for them so what do they turn to. The elderly. Announced this spring, all seniors now get free fishing and admittance to all provincial parks. The seniors just gobbled that all up. Just another vote grab. The NDP spent millions on promoting tourism, unfortunetly they cut back every year the amount that gets allocated to the parks. Thats right, come to our parks and see nature as it was intended to be.......uncut grass, no fire wood to burn even thought they charge you a fee to burn their crappy green wood, plugged toilets daily and make sure you don't leave anything on the counter of the camper on the way down because SOME of our highways are a little on the rough side.
If I seem bitter it is because I am. I think Sask. is beautiful and wish I could stay, but like it was mentioned earlier, this province has no economy and never will as long as 85% of it's population either collects treaty cheques or old age pension cheques. Without an economy young people can not have a future here. Unless you have a gov't job you are screwed or destined to live a long struggle filled life here. I say let everyone move to Alberta and leave the gov't here with there pension and treaty cheques to cover on their own.
Well, TPP and West. Can. Chick summed it up perfectly and Canada500 does not have a clue what he was talking about. Our prov. gov't is the most useless pieces of you know what there is.
As a business owner this government does absolutely nothing for small business other than chase you to Alberta, and they are not exactly sitting at the boarder with open arms for larger businesses either. With an election around the corner the NDP got right to work this spring trying to collect the votes. No young people left to vote for them so what do they turn to. The elderly. Announced this spring, all seniors now get free fishing and admittance to all provincial parks. The seniors just gobbled that all up. Just another vote grab. The NDP spent millions on promoting tourism, unfortunetly they cut back every year the amount that gets allocated to the parks. Thats right, come to our parks and see nature as it was intended to be.......uncut grass, no fire wood to burn even thought they charge you a fee to burn their crappy green wood, plugged toilets daily and make sure you don't leave anything on the counter of the camper on the way down because SOME of our highways are a little on the rough side.
If I seem bitter it is because I am. I think Sask. is beautiful and wish I could stay, but like it was mentioned earlier, this province has no economy and never will as long as 85% of it's population either collects treaty cheques or old age pension cheques. Without an economy young people can not have a future here. Unless you have a gov't job you are screwed or destined to live a long struggle filled life here. I say let everyone move to Alberta and leave the gov't here with there pension and treaty cheques to cover on their own.
