Science and Spirituality

s_lone

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Are science and spirituality compatible?

If by the term ''spiritual'' one means:

Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material.

What form of spirituality can the scientist have?

Can the notion of Spirit be coherently included in a scientific view of the world?
 

s_lone

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What is spirit? It can be scientifically defined as conscious energy. Quantum Physics has closed the gap between spirituality and science. For a more in depth look at the subject, see the movie "What the Bleep do we Know?"

I saw the movie a couple years ago and while it has the merit to raise important questions and engage the public into reflection, I think it is also misleading in its tendency to reach conclusions that are NOT backed up by the bulk of the scientific community.

That being said, I am more than open to radical ideas about consciousness and the nature of reality, but it's important to keep a clear distinction between unverifiable speculation and science.
 
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s_lone

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I think spirituality and science can be compatible presuming the def. of spirituality is the guidance of the human character to do good.

Hard to disagree with that. I tend to think pure science is beyond good and evil, but as soon as science finds concrete applications in our human lives, ethics are absolutely necessary. And one's ethical views tend to be intimately tied to one's spiritual views.

Science and beliefs that imaginary beings are real aren't compatible.

If you define spirituality by ''belief in things that aren't real'' than of course, it isn't compatible with science. But clearly that is an arbitrary definition of spirituality.

From what I understand, spirituality in its simplest and purest form is concern and interest for what relates to consciousness or Spirit. Science itself is an investigation of the so-called material world by the human spirit.

Because science rises out of spirit, science can't really deny the existence of spirit. So in that sense, I believe science and spirituality are not only compatible but inseparable.
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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Are science and spirituality compatible?

If by the term ''spiritual'' one means:

Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material.

What form of spirituality can the scientist have?

Can the notion of Spirit be coherently included in a scientific view of the world?

IMO they're not seperable, the one depends on the other directly, like leap frogging.
 

s_lone

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I wasn't defining spirituality as being the beliefs that imaginary beings are real. I just made the comment that science and the faiths are incompatible. Most people link spirituality and faith. I was clarifying.

It's true that most people link spirituality and faith and it is equally true that faith doesn't have much to do with science.

Being in the mood for nitpicking, one could argue that there is a certain amount of faith in science. Faith that the laws of the universe are fixed and knowable.

But that being said, I pretty much agree that faith and science are not compatible.
 

Outta here

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Jul 8, 2005
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Can the notion of Spirit be coherently included in a scientific view of the world?


s_lone - what a great question!

Religion (which I'm sure you'll agree, is a much different concept than spirit) has personified the word and in fact, the very concept of spirit, imbuing it with all kinds of humanistic qualities (and flaws) and even in some cases, an actual physical description.

I believe that spirit is so much more than that... it's something intrinsic to each of us - and most certainly not external to us. I believe it is the force of life within each of us and whether it is nurtured, denied or ignored, it exists not as a separate entity from humanity but as the force which drives us individually and binds us collectively - with not only ourselves as a species, but our planet and everything on it, within it and of it... and even beyond that, with all that exists everywhere, known and unknown.

That said, the question for me then becomes


How can the notion of Spirit NOT be coherently included in a scientific view of the world?

or, if you prefer,

How can the notion of science NOT be coherently included in a spiritual view of the world?

No matter how you look at it, both sides of the coin are still the same coin.
 

s_lone

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s_lone - what a great question!

Religion (which I'm sure you'll agree, is a much different concept than spirit) has personified the word and in fact, the very concept of spirit, imbuing it with all kinds of humanistic qualities (and flaws) and even in some cases, an actual physical description.

I believe that spirit is so much more than that... it's something intrinsic to each of us - and most certainly not external to us. I believe it is the force of life within each of us and whether it is nurtured, denied or ignored, it exists not as a separate entity from humanity but as the force which drives us individually and binds us collectively - with not only ourselves as a species, but our planet and everything on it, within it and of it... and even beyond that, with all that exists everywhere, known and unknown.

That said, the question for me then becomes


How can the notion of Spirit NOT be coherently included in a scientific view of the world?

or, if you prefer,

How can the notion of science NOT be coherently included in a spiritual view of the world?

No matter how you look at it, both sides of the coin are still the same coin.

I am in total agreement with your view Zan, and thanks for your enthusiastic input!

The two last questions you ask (with the NOTs) are very important and fundamental.

Here is where I think the debate can become very tricky... Is matter a sub-manifestation of Spirit? Or is spirit a sub-manifestation of the material world? Is this a false dilemma? Are matter and spirit 2 sides of the same coin?
 

Outta here

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Jul 8, 2005
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S-Lone, are you asking me which came first - the chicken or the egg? lollll I wouldn't dream of hazarding a guess! :lol:

Are you familiar with the writings of Neal Donald Walsch? He's taken a kick at addressing this subject matter... well, to be honest, it seems to me that what he's done is found a way to encapsulate all the best guesses from all the longest standing religions/belief systems into one generalized answer to some of these age old questions. It made for interesting reading for a lazy seeker of truth like me though. :p

If you decide to pick up any of his umpteen books, I can't recommend any beyond the first three. After that he seemed to get caught up in a trap he himself identified... and went from being a 'messenger' to a 'guru'.

For gawds' sake, beware all gurus! 8O
 

Tyr

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Nov 27, 2008
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s_lone - what a great question!

Religion (which I'm sure you'll agree, is a much different concept than spirit) has personified the word and in fact, the very concept of spirit, imbuing it with all kinds of humanistic qualities (and flaws) and even in some cases, an actual physical description.

I believe that spirit is so much more than that... it's something intrinsic to each of us - and most certainly not external to us. I believe it is the force of life within each of us and whether it is nurtured, denied or ignored, it exists not as a separate entity from humanity but as the force which drives us individually and binds us collectively - with not only ourselves as a species, but our planet and everything on it, within it and of it... and even beyond that, with all that exists everywhere, known and unknown.

That said, the question for me then becomes

How can the notion of Spirit NOT be coherently included in a scientific view of the world?

or, if you prefer,

How can the notion of science NOT be coherently included in a spiritual view of the world?

No matter how you look at it, both sides of the coin are still the same coin.

Religion (which I'm sure you'll agree, is a much different concept than spirit) has personified the word and in fact, the very concept of spirit, imbuing it with all kinds of humanistic qualities (and flaws) and even in some cases, an actual physical description.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I struggled with the concept of "spirituality" and "God" for decades (born and raised Catholic)

Until I was able to seperate Spirituality from Religion and realize that God is a "term" that's been absconded by religion and means many different things to many different people, I'd shut the whole concept out of my life.

I agree with someone else's post that spirituality can be something that Science hasn't explained.......yet
 

MHz

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A scientist will always say 'damn' when death comes calling and then book on them is closed and forgotten in time..
A Christian might also say 'danm' at some point, always followed by 'Thanks' at some point after that and then more pages are added to their book..

That would seem to be like trying to mix oil and water, doesn't work all that well till you introduce a small amount of soap. (you start witnessing things attributed to God with you own eyes)
 

Tyr

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A scientist will always say 'damn' when death comes calling and then book on them is closed and forgotten in time..
A Christian might also say 'danm' at some point, always followed by 'Thanks' at some point after that and then more pages are added to their book..

That would seem to be like trying to mix oil and water, doesn't work all that well till you introduce a small amount of soap. (you start witnessing things attributed to God with you own eyes)

Good for you. I had mentioned that "God" was a term absconded by the fringe as some sort omnipotent being.

The majority of the world doesn't see it that way. God is part of the spiritual experience (individual) vs religion which is a man made phenomenon based on superstition and fear
 

Cliffy

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That would seem to be like trying to mix oil and water, doesn't work all that well till you introduce a small amount of soap.

So, religion is soap.Interesting concept. I wonder if that could be scientifically proved? Or is that why my mom kept threatening to wash my mouth out with soap?

Spirituality is the individual search for truth and meaning in one's life. Religion is a social club. Zan said beware all gurus. I would ad beware all "holy" books. As JC himself said, "The kingdom of god is within." It ain't out there and it certainly can not be found in any books.
 

MHz

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No, witnessing some Godly events is the soap (as per some miraculous event already in Scripture ). Sight should take priority over a 'science' book.

Perhaps she should have after saying it once, then there would have been no need for any further threats.

Maybe it should say beware all 'Zans'. The words are there to describe a literal place. You are mistaking the 'knowledge we can acquire' to the reality that goes with it. The book that we read is outside our body. We have two parts, physical (earthly dust) and spiritual link to God (His breath of life that all living souls enjoy).
Some parts of the Bible actually teach that.
1Co:4:20: For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
 

Cliffy

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But if your head is buried in a book you will miss the real miracles that are going on all around you every day.

1Co:4:20: For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Ah, Corinthians, Paul the politician and builder of religions, mentally masturbating about his own ego. The great revelation on the road to Damascus was that if he stopped persecuting christians and convinced them that he had a revelation from god, he could become their leader. And since he discovered that for every christian he persecuted ten more would pop up, he would become the leader of a major movement and could influence them (read: change them to suit his own political agenda). Paul is the one who screwed up christianity by turning the story of Jesus into a religion instead of a spiritual movement based on his teachings. He was a major twit.
 

MHz

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I would think you should be thanking him, if not for him (and other similar influences) you would have been swept up into the same group this thread started with. Paul didn't become their leader, every letter he wrote was commissioned by a higher authority. There are enough verses to stop people from becoming a sheeple, it does take a bit of effort on their part though.

Now be quiet.
 

Cliffy

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Now be quiet.

MHz,I prefer the company of Pagans. They know how to boogy. Bible thumpers are a stodgy ol' lot.