Atheism: The reasons for it.

[In Between Man]

In response to Prax's thread on the Christian fear factor, I would like to post my own thread exploring the reasons why people accept atheism. All I want to say about the fear factor post is that although I believe its totally incorrect, I understand why such an argument is believed.

Here are my conclusions on why people have an unbelief in god.

First I want to mention the obvious ones real quick:

First, there are many perceived intellectual objections to christianity. The problem of evil, and the objections of many scientists, esp. concerning the science of evolution.

Second, there are emotional obstacles that sometimes obstruct the acceptance of christianity. Christian exclusivism, the doctrine of hell, and the hypocrisy of christians are emotional roadblocks to just about everyone. In fact, hypocrisy in the church probably repels people more than any other factor. Its sometimes said the biggest problem with christianity is christians!

Third, there are volitional reasons to reject christianity, namely, christian morality, which seems to restrict our choices in life. Since most of us don’t want to answer to anyone, yielding our freedom to an unseen god is not something we naturally want to do. (I'm going to talk a bit more about this).

But what are the real, underlying issues?

To keep god out of their lives. I don't what to stop there though. Why keep god out of your life? Well.....

First, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they are not the highest authority when it comes to truth. Currently, in this technologically advanced world, scientists are viewed by the public as the revered authority figures -- the new priests who make a better life possible and who comprise the sole source of objective truth. Allowing the possibility of god would be to relinquish their claim of superior authority.

Second, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have absolute authority when it comes to explaining causes. In other words, if god exists, they couldn’t explain every event as the result of predictable natural laws. Scientists don't want to lose control to the theologian.

Third, by admitting god, atheists/darwinian scientists would risk losing financial security and professional admiration. How so? Because there’s tremendous pressure in the academic community to publish something that supports evolution. Find something important, and you may find yourself on the cover of national geographic or the subject of a PBS special. Find nothing, and you may find yourself out of a job, out of grant money, or at least out of favor with your atheist colleagues. So there’s a money, job security, and prestige motive to advance the atheist worldview.

Finally, and by far the most significant, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have the authority to define right and wrong for themselves. By ruling out the supernatural, atheists can avoid the possibility that anything is morally prohibited. For if there is no God, everything is lawful.

 

[Scott Free]

There are lots of gods you don't believe in. Why do you choose to believe in one and not the others? You'll find my reason is exactly the same except I go one god further

 

[In Between Man]

You'll find my reason is exactly the same except I go one god further

:lol:

There are lots of gods you don't believe in. Why do you choose to believe in one and not the others?

Christianity offers grace through faith. Unlike islam, lets say, I can't earn salvation. I only have to accept it. Its a free gift.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Christianity offers grace through faith. Unlike islam, lets say, I can't earn salvation. I only have to accept it. Its a free gift.

What evidence do you have that salvation is even attainable?

Religion fails against logic and reason on every level...

Why are you so sure your salvation is real, if everything else has been shown to be false?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Atheism, is the rejection of any form of god.

The reason for it is simple.

There's no reason to believe in god.

 

[In Between Man]

What evidence do you have that salvation is even attainable?

You know the tall order that entails. First, I would have to convince you that JC actually existed. Then I would have to convince you that the eyewitness testimony about the events surrounding the resurrection we're reliable...I can argue these points, but not at short length.

Religion fails against logic and reason on every level...

I know thats not true. First of all, your bunching all the religions together. I personally believe that buddism, fails at logic and reason.

Why are you so sure your salvation is real

Does struggling against sin count?

everything else has been shown to be false

:roll:

 

[gerryh]

I'm wondering why a thread on ATheism is in the Christianity sub forum.

 

[In Between Man]

The reason for it is simple.

Was there a specific part of my post you disagree with?

With an unbelief in god, do you not have the right to define right and wrong for yourself?
( I would like you to answer this question, please)

There's no reason to believe in god.

Did you know that the very fact you think you have reasons not believe in god, presupposes that he exists?

Reasons require that the universe be a reasonable one. And that presupposes that there is logic, order and truth. But order, logic and truth can only exist and be known if there is an unchangeable objective source of such things.

In order for you know that something is unreasonable Vanni, you would have to know what reasonable is. Atheism actually borrows from my view in order to appear more intelligible.

 

[In Between Man]

I'm wondering why a thread on ATheism is in the Christianity sub forum.

Well... its in response to the Christian fear factor thread, in the same category. I guess I could have put it under general philosophy. Sorry.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

You know the tall order that entails.

No one said this was going to be easy...

First, I would have to convince you that JC actually existed.

That would be a good start...

Then I would have to convince you that the eyewitness testimony about the events surrounding the resurrection we're reliable...

I'll help you out with this one...

Secular Web Kiosk and Bookstore :: Easter Quiz

I know thats not true. First of all, your bunching all the religions together. I personally believe that buddism, fails at logic and reason.

Then you've lost objectivity, because they all fail at logic and reason.

Does struggling against sin count?

Maybe, if you have the world view of a 5 year old.

:roll:

:roll::roll::angry3::roll::roll:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I'm wondering why a thread on ATheism is in the Christianity sub forum.

For once I completely agree with you. I also wondered why the "Does God exist" thread was put in Political Debates. These seem like broader philosophical debates to me, not specifically Christian or political.

 

[gerryh]

agreed

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Finally, and by far the most significant, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have the authority to define right and wrong for themselves. By ruling out the supernatural, atheists can avoid the possibility that anything is morally prohibited. For if there is no God, everything is lawful.

You disappoint me. There are others I'd expect such sophistry from, but I hoped you might be smarter than that. Religion is not the source of ethics and morality. There are something over 600 prescriptions for correct behaviour in the Old Testament, many of which are currently illegal in civilized societies, and there are things in the New Testament about those laws still being in force, but no modern society enforces them. It's in Matthew I think, that statement from Jesus about not one jot or tittle of the law passing away until he returns. Even when we have a supposedly divinely inspired document that defines correct behaviour, we pick and choose among the rules given. Religious justifications for ethics and morality are just post hoc rationalizations of existing conditions.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Was there a specific part of my post you disagree with?

Pretty much all of it...according to you, we are atheists as a protection against:

1. losing authority status,
2. losing authority status,
3. losing monetary considerations and authority status

Your assertions are the most ridiculous tripe I've ever seen put into words, and I've seen a lot of ridiculous **** written by foaming-at-the-mouth fundies...

With an unbelief in god, do you not have the right to define right and wrong for yourself?
( I would like you to answer this question, please)

Of course, belief in god has absolutely nothing to do with morality...

Did you know that the very fact you think you have reasons not believe in god, presupposes that he exists?

That's bull**** and you know it...another example of your flawed logic...

I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy or Leprechauns either, does that really mean that I do...:roll:

Use yer frickin' head Alley...

Reasons require that the universe be a reasonable one. And that presupposes that there is logic, order and truth. But order, logic and truth can only exist and be known if there is an unchangeable objective source of such things.

What are you reading Alley?

The universe is as unreasonable as not...there's just as much chaos as order...

Reason is looking at a problem from several different perspectives, and choosing the one that fits best according to the evidence available.

You are confusing the metaphysical with the physical again...:lol:

In order for you know that something is unreasonable Vanni, you would have to know what reasonable is. Atheism actually borrows from my view in order to appear more intelligible.

Yeah...nice try...:lol::lol:

What atheism has done is defeat theism soundly...

Theism has been relegated to the realm of philosophy, but will not remain there long, because philosophically, theism sucks ass...

There is no actual basis for theism anymore...science explains how the world works far better than religion ever had, or ever will...

 

[talloola]

quote]

Here are my conclusions on why people have an unbelief in god.


But what are the real, underlying issues?


First, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they are not the highest authority when it comes to truth. Currently, in this technologically advanced world, scientists are viewed by the public as the revered authority figures -- the new priests who make a better life possible and who comprise the sole source of objective truth. Allowing the possibility of god would be to relinquish their claim of superior authority.

I am not a scientist and never will be, and I am not competetive or interested in making my
name out there along with others who 'desire' to be admired and respected for doing great
things in this world.


Second, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have absolute authority when it comes to explaining causes. In other words, if god exists, they couldn’t explain every event as the result of predictable natural laws. Scientists don't want to lose control to the theologian.
You definitely are stuck in the world of the great inventors, and discoverers, but the
majority of people who have never given a second thought to some god 'out there' somewhere, are the ones who do not believe, the scientific world being just a few.

Third, by admitting god, atheists/darwinian scientists would risk losing financial security and professional admiration. How so? Because there’s tremendous pressure in the academic community to publish something that supports evolution. Find something important, and you may find yourself on the cover of national geographic or the subject of a PBS special. Find nothing, and you may find yourself out of a job, out of grant money, or at least out of favor with your atheist colleagues. So there’s a money, job security, and prestige motive to advance the atheist worldview.
I, and others like me, are not striving for such 'bouquets', we know who we are, no need
to prove anything to anyone, are comfortable in our place on this earth, and aren't really
interested in what 'believers' or churches teach or think, it is foreign to us.

Finally, and by far the most significant, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have the authority to define right and wrong for themselves. By ruling out the supernatural, atheists can avoid the possibility that anything is morally prohibited. For if there is no God, everything is lawful
That is insulting, as we, here on earth, do not need anyone but our parents when we are
children, and as we go through life we can care for each other just fine, naturally know
right from wrong, as we can challenge each other in that department, the idea that 'avoiding' the possibility that anything is morally
prohibited is also insulting, as, again the believer is accusing us of having a lower
sense of moral behavior, and that is wrong, but, the usual convenient 'put down' that
is thrown our way.
Morality either good or bad, is amongst all of us, believers or non, doesn't matter.

 

[Scott Free]

Christianity offers grace through faith. Unlike islam, lets say, I can't earn salvation. I only have to accept it. Its a free gift.

Well, if any of that were true and not just wishful thinking, I wouldn't want it anyway. I don't want salvation; I don't want redemption; I don't want grace; as non of that is of any importance to me in the least. If ever I have a twinge of conscious about something I just deal with it then and there. I need no authorities forgiveness; I forgive me and that is enough - anyone who would insist I am in need of some other authority is a usurper, a tyrant and my mortal enemy.

I have found that religion is a replacement for parents. Unfortunately most people never get a chance to grow up and so never lose their need for a parent. It is very much like Freud claimed, "god is dad."

Anyway, that is why I suspect people "need" religion.

Why someone might be an atheist is simply that there is no evidence for any god and that includes the Christian god - as I said: atheism is just like you except one god further. Not only that but if there were a god it would be an absolute tragedy. Being grown up, taking responsibility for ones self which includes ones own legacy and redemption creates a feeling beyond compare. It is a release from tyranny. But more, I am a good person and it is because I choose to be not because someone might cast me into hell. The world is a hell yet I choose to be good. God can make no claim whatsoever against my character! I do not fear him and I do not wish anything from him yet I am good! Therefore I am my own man and that really, really, really feels damn good.

So that is my reason anyway ;-)

 

[In Between Man]

Thanks for your replies guys. You left me with a lot to chew on! Gotta work tomorrow...later!

 

[scratch]

quote]

Here are my conclusions on why people have an unbelief in god.


But what are the real, underlying issues?


First, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they are not the highest authority when it comes to truth. Currently, in this technologically advanced world, scientists are viewed by the public as the revered authority figures -- the new priests who make a better life possible and who comprise the sole source of objective truth. Allowing the possibility of god would be to relinquish their claim of superior authority.

I am not a scientist and never will be, and I am not competetive or interested in making my
name out there along with others who 'desire' to be admired and respected for doing great
things in this world.


Second, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have absolute authority when it comes to explaining causes. In other words, if god exists, they couldn’t explain every event as the result of predictable natural laws. Scientists don't want to lose control to the theologian.
You definitely are stuck in the world of the great inventors, and discoverers, but the
majority of people who have never given a second thought to some god 'out there' somewhere, are the ones who do not believe, the scientific world being just a few.

Third, by admitting god, atheists/darwinian scientists would risk losing financial security and professional admiration. How so? Because there’s tremendous pressure in the academic community to publish something that supports evolution. Find something important, and you may find yourself on the cover of national geographic or the subject of a PBS special. Find nothing, and you may find yourself out of a job, out of grant money, or at least out of favor with your atheist colleagues. So there’s a money, job security, and prestige motive to advance the atheist worldview.
I, and others like me, are not striving for such 'bouquets', we know who we are, no need
to prove anything to anyone, are comfortable in our place on this earth, and aren't really
interested in what 'believers' or churches teach or think, it is foreign to us.

Finally, and by far the most significant, by admitting god, atheists would be admitting that they don’t have the authority to define right and wrong for themselves. By ruling out the supernatural, atheists can avoid the possibility that anything is morally prohibited. For if there is no God, everything is lawful
That is insulting, as we, here on earth, do not need anyone but our parents when we are
children, and as we go through life we can care for each other just fine, naturally know
right from wrong, as we can challenge each other in that department, the idea that 'avoiding' the possibility that anything is morally
prohibited is also insulting, as, again the believer is accusing us of having a lower
sense of moral behavior, and that is wrong, but, the usual convenient 'put down' that
is thrown our way.
Morality either good or bad, is amongst all of us, believers or non, doesn't matter.

Lady of the Island,

An excellent comment and I second it.

regards,
scratch

 

[tracy]

I think the real reason is just that religious stories don't ring true to some of us. I mean come on!!! A talking snake, a burning bush, a guy living in the belly of a whale, another guy building a boat and getting a male and female of every species to get on and procreate, a virgin giving birth.... you could swap those stories in with fairy tales like jack and the bean stalk and no one would notice the difference.


I would call myself an agnostic, not an atheist for the same reason I couldn't call myself a Christian. I just think it's arrogant for a human being to assume they know all of the answers to spiritual questions. Christians aren't any more knowledgeable than buddhists, sihks, jews, muslims, agnostics or atheists. None of these people possesses any special powers that allows them to know things they can't know like what happens when we die, what life means, etc.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

:lol:

Christianity offers grace through faith.

Unlike islam, lets say, I can't earn salvation. I only have to accept it. Its a free gift.

real the much from the bible the lost and it now in the 60 book then Christian not know the real book to flow it then they say

Its a free gift

any way

how the god kill him few from jews ?

that impossible !!

and

how the god he have mother from humans ?

and

how the god eat the food like humans ?

and

if the god is liked to have sons

why just have one son ?

that impossible !!

no way I do prayer to god like that !


but the god in islam !

112.001
Sahih International: Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
112.002
Sahih International: Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
112.003
Sahih International: He neither begets nor is born,
112.004

Sahih International: Nor is there to Him any equivalent."​

042.011
Sahih International: [He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.​

002.255

Sahih International: Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.

The QURAN Compared with The Bible ​