Council Member
Posts: 1,919 
Location: china
Location: china
January 14th, 2008, 08:25 AM
As long as you are acquisitive, envious, ambitious, seeking power, position, prestige, society approves of it; and on that you base your action. That action is considered respectable, moral. But it is not moral at all. Power in any form is evil: the power of the husband over the wife or the wife over the husband, the power of the politicians. The more tyrannical, the more bigoted, the more religious the power, the more evil it is. That is a fact, a provable, observable fact, but society approves of it. You all worship the man in power, and you base your action on that power. So, if you observe that your action is based on acquisitiveness of power, on the desire to succeed, on the desire to be somebody in this rotten world, then facing the fact will bring about a totally different action, and that is true action—not the action which society has imposed upon the individual. So, social morality is not morality at all; it is immoral; it is another form of defending ourselves, and therefore we are being gradually destroyed by society. A man who would understand freedom must be ruthlessly free of society—psychologically, not physically. You cannot be free of society physically because, for everything, you do depend on society—the clothes that you wear, money, and so on. Outwardly, nonpsychologically, you depend on society. But to be free of society implies psychological freedom, that is, to be totally free from ambition, from envy, greed, power, position, prestige.
As long as you are acquisitive, envious, ambitious, seeking power, position, prestige, society approves of it; and on that you base your action. That action is considered respectable, moral. But it is not moral at all. Power in any form is evil: the power of the husband over the wife or the wife over the husband, the power of the politicians. The more tyrannical, the more bigoted, the more religious the power, the more evil it is. That is a fact, a provable, observable fact, but society approves of it. You all worship the man in power, and you base your action on that power. So, if you observe that your action is based on acquisitiveness of power, on the desire to succeed, on the desire to be somebody in this rotten world, then facing the fact will bring about a totally different action, and that is true action—not the action which society has imposed upon the individual. So, social morality is not morality at all; it is immoral; it is another form of defending ourselves, and therefore we are being gradually destroyed by society. A man who would understand freedom must be ruthlessly free of society—psychologically, not physically. You cannot be free of society physically because, for everything, you do depend on society—the clothes that you wear, money, and so on. Outwardly, nonpsychologically, you depend on society. But to be free of society implies psychological freedom, that is, to be totally free from ambition, from envy, greed, power, position, prestige.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,195 
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 14th, 2008, 08:47 AM
That's very true China but you require personal power or impecable intent (casteneda) to overcome the rule by convention that enslaves us all and is in the greater part responsible for the human condition today. Power may be thought of the same as currency, the misuse is in the spending of both money and power . Atrue sage will know how and when to exercise power if not the wealth of each will wield him like a stick and enslave the bearer.
Same idea as yours only sematic cosmetic differences. Power is the root of all, good and bad eh.
your poor servent DB
That's very true China but you require personal power or impecable intent (casteneda) to overcome the rule by convention that enslaves us all and is in the greater part responsible for the human condition today. Power may be thought of the same as currency, the misuse is in the spending of both money and power . Atrue sage will know how and when to exercise power if not the wealth of each will wield him like a stick and enslave the bearer.
Same idea as yours only sematic cosmetic differences. Power is the root of all, good and bad eh.
your poor servent DB
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
January 14th, 2008, 08:02 PM
China
When we “calculate” we begin with zero, or if you prefer, when we see, we begin with darkness. Every sense every calculation and every colour is relative. When we apply a metric, a system of related measures that facilitates the quantification of some particular characteristic we reduce everything to comparison against a “known”. We cannot systematize understanding any more than we can quantify emotion. The strength and indeed the miracle of the human condition is that we are beings that emerge from darkness from zero, not through some mechanistic process of sums and balances, not as a “solution” to some grand equation or formula but through the precisely opposite, the diametrical opposite of what our governments our economics our science and our quantified perspective on existence informs us…or more precisely what we’re conditioned to accept as “informed” about who and what we are as human beings.
With all respect, you seem more than prepared to analyze this experience of existence as greater or lesser degrees of some characteristic or property.
We are somehow “inspired” to juxtapose and measure one condition one framework or scale against another as process in the effort to acquire understanding. Understanding of the self of the other and everything that impinges our awareness, ignoring or missing the reality that understanding is and of itself process.
We abandon our nature in pursuit of phantoms, chasing after that absolute, that definitive objective point of complete static finality… in this experience taking place in a domain of constant change. Everything in the universe is on its way somewhere.
You must learn to look beyond the black and the white, beyond the gray.
Life isn’t “this” or “that” it is.
Darkbeaver
You cry when you’re happy and you cry when you’re sad. Do we have any scale any formula that allows us to experience the same pain the same sadness….or the same happiness as anyone else feels at any given moment?
When the mercantile mentality applies the metric of dollars to suffering…and we permit this all the time….what accountant or bookkeeper can demonstrate the absolute difference in pain or in sorrow, or in happiness that some particular condition or set of circumstances elicits in one human being against the ledger of any other persons pain or sorrow or happiness?
Where is the thermometer or barometer or scale that allows us to minimalize and dismiss every other human beings feelings?
Of course there isn’t any such thing.
Would it be fair to suggest that humankind has been nearly totally almost completely “digitized”? That one groups level or degree of fear and outrage qualifies as “greater-than” or is somehow more acutely felt or experienced than some other group?
Dollars allow us to do that Beve.
The metric of wealth is the single most powerful instrument in reducing humankind to the state of self-evaluation based not on our capacity availability and readiness to love and cherish every other human being but to place a price on everything from freedom and democracy to today’s monetary morality that teaches us to regard life as a cost/benefit phenomenon.
We may rail against the “machine”, but the machine has us.
China
When we “calculate” we begin with zero, or if you prefer, when we see, we begin with darkness. Every sense every calculation and every colour is relative. When we apply a metric, a system of related measures that facilitates the quantification of some particular characteristic we reduce everything to comparison against a “known”. We cannot systematize understanding any more than we can quantify emotion. The strength and indeed the miracle of the human condition is that we are beings that emerge from darkness from zero, not through some mechanistic process of sums and balances, not as a “solution” to some grand equation or formula but through the precisely opposite, the diametrical opposite of what our governments our economics our science and our quantified perspective on existence informs us…or more precisely what we’re conditioned to accept as “informed” about who and what we are as human beings.
With all respect, you seem more than prepared to analyze this experience of existence as greater or lesser degrees of some characteristic or property.
We are somehow “inspired” to juxtapose and measure one condition one framework or scale against another as process in the effort to acquire understanding. Understanding of the self of the other and everything that impinges our awareness, ignoring or missing the reality that understanding is and of itself process.
We abandon our nature in pursuit of phantoms, chasing after that absolute, that definitive objective point of complete static finality… in this experience taking place in a domain of constant change. Everything in the universe is on its way somewhere.
You must learn to look beyond the black and the white, beyond the gray.
Life isn’t “this” or “that” it is.
Darkbeaver
You cry when you’re happy and you cry when you’re sad. Do we have any scale any formula that allows us to experience the same pain the same sadness….or the same happiness as anyone else feels at any given moment?
When the mercantile mentality applies the metric of dollars to suffering…and we permit this all the time….what accountant or bookkeeper can demonstrate the absolute difference in pain or in sorrow, or in happiness that some particular condition or set of circumstances elicits in one human being against the ledger of any other persons pain or sorrow or happiness?
Where is the thermometer or barometer or scale that allows us to minimalize and dismiss every other human beings feelings?
Of course there isn’t any such thing.
Would it be fair to suggest that humankind has been nearly totally almost completely “digitized”? That one groups level or degree of fear and outrage qualifies as “greater-than” or is somehow more acutely felt or experienced than some other group?
Dollars allow us to do that Beve.
The metric of wealth is the single most powerful instrument in reducing humankind to the state of self-evaluation based not on our capacity availability and readiness to love and cherish every other human being but to place a price on everything from freedom and democracy to today’s monetary morality that teaches us to regard life as a cost/benefit phenomenon.
We may rail against the “machine”, but the machine has us.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 526
Location: Pointy Rocks
Location: Pointy Rocks
January 15th, 2008, 12:53 AM
There is no need to break free from expectations. You are free. Simply ignore the laws or conventions that you don't want to follow. Understand that you may be caught if your actions violate laws and you may be prosecuted. Other than that consideration any thought or action you can do and think is permitted. Only your own self-censorship can stop you. Enjoy.
Quoting china
What an odd way to become free. Society has laws and conventions. So what.
As long as you are acquisitive, envious, ambitious, seeking power, position, prestige, society approves of it; and on that you base your action. That action is considered respectable, moral. But it is not moral at all. Power in any form is evil: the power of the husband over the wife or the wife over the husband, the power of the politicians. The more tyrannical, the more bigoted, the more religious the power, the more evil it is. That is a fact, a provable, observable fact, but society approves of it. You all worship the man in power, and you base your action on that power. So, if you observe that your action is based on acquisitiveness of power, on the desire to succeed, on the desire to be somebody in this rotten world, then facing the fact will bring about a totally different action, and that is true action—not the action which society has imposed upon the individual. So, social morality is not morality at all; it is immoral; it is another form of defending ourselves, and therefore we are being gradually destroyed by society. A man who would understand freedom must be ruthlessly free of society—psychologically, not physically. You cannot be free of society physically because, for everything, you do depend on society—the clothes that you wear, money, and so on. Outwardly, nonpsychologically, you depend on society. But to be free of society implies psychological freedom, that is, to be totally free from ambition, from envy, greed, power, position, prestige.
There is no need to break free from expectations. You are free. Simply ignore the laws or conventions that you don't want to follow. Understand that you may be caught if your actions violate laws and you may be prosecuted. Other than that consideration any thought or action you can do and think is permitted. Only your own self-censorship can stop you. Enjoy.
