Council Member
Posts: 1,936 
Location: china
Location: china
December 29th, 2007, 02:30 PM
The self-knowledge is not to be learned from another. I cannot tell you what self-knowledge is. But one can see how the mind operates, not just the mind that is active every day, but the totality of the mind, the mind that is conscious as well as hidden. All the many layers of the mind have to be perceived, investigated—which does not mean introspection. Self-analysis does not reveal the totality of the mind because there is always the division between the analyzer and the analyzed. But if you can observe the operation of your own mind without any sense of judgment, evaluation, without condemnation or comparison—just observe it as you would observe a star, dispassionately, quietly, without any sense of anxiety—then you will see that self-knowledge is not a matter of time, that it is not a process of delving into the unconscious to remove all the motives, or to understand the various impulses and compulsions. What creates time is comparison, surely, and because our minds are the result of time, they are always thinking in terms of the "more", which we call progress.
The self-knowledge is not to be learned from another. I cannot tell you what self-knowledge is. But one can see how the mind operates, not just the mind that is active every day, but the totality of the mind, the mind that is conscious as well as hidden. All the many layers of the mind have to be perceived, investigated—which does not mean introspection. Self-analysis does not reveal the totality of the mind because there is always the division between the analyzer and the analyzed. But if you can observe the operation of your own mind without any sense of judgment, evaluation, without condemnation or comparison—just observe it as you would observe a star, dispassionately, quietly, without any sense of anxiety—then you will see that self-knowledge is not a matter of time, that it is not a process of delving into the unconscious to remove all the motives, or to understand the various impulses and compulsions. What creates time is comparison, surely, and because our minds are the result of time, they are always thinking in terms of the "more", which we call progress.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 10,273 
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 3
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
December 29th, 2007, 03:32 PM
China who are that good looking bunch of kids in your Avatar?
China who are that good looking bunch of kids in your Avatar?
Yo
Posts: 3,537
Location: Counting Flowers on the Wall
Location: Counting Flowers on the Wall
December 29th, 2007, 05:16 PM
Quoting darkbeaver
His Chillins.
China who are that good looking bunch of kids in your Avatar?
Bright Spark
Posts: 476
Location: Zurich
Location: Zurich
December 29th, 2007, 05:24 PM
China, "The self-knowledge is not to be learned from another."
Jim, "O.K.! Let's move on to something we can do, say self ignorance or something."
China, "I cannot tell you what self-knowledge is.
Jim, "O.K. Well let's have done with self-knowlege then, by popular demand."
China, "But one can see how the mind operates, not just the mind that is active every day, but the totality of the mind, the mind that is conscious as well as hidden.
Jim, "Yes, I see it now, especially the hidden."
China, "All the many layers of the mind have to be perceived, investigated—which does not mean introspection."
Jim, "Of course! I have a chain saw, but a scalpel might be more say hippocratic."
China, "Self-analysis does not reveal the totality of the mind because there is always the division between the analyzer and the analyzed."
Jim, "We all know about the new mind body connection, but the new mind body disconnect is a wow, being different from the old one, because...
China, "But if you can observe the operation of your own mind without any sense of judgment, evaluation, without condemnation or comparison—just observe it as you would observe a star, dispassionately, quietly, without any sense of anxiety—then you will see that self-knowledge is not a matter of time, that it is not a process of delving into the unconscious to remove all the motives, or to understand the various impulses and compulsions. What creates time is comparison, surely, and because our minds are the result of time, they are always thinking in terms of the "more", which we call progress.
Jim, "Exactly. Observe, but do not think feel or think. Decreate time by failing to compare, and call it backsliding. But what if I prefer progress? Dr.?"
China, "The self-knowledge is not to be learned from another."
Jim, "O.K.! Let's move on to something we can do, say self ignorance or something."
China, "I cannot tell you what self-knowledge is.
Jim, "O.K. Well let's have done with self-knowlege then, by popular demand."
China, "But one can see how the mind operates, not just the mind that is active every day, but the totality of the mind, the mind that is conscious as well as hidden.
Jim, "Yes, I see it now, especially the hidden."
China, "All the many layers of the mind have to be perceived, investigated—which does not mean introspection."
Jim, "Of course! I have a chain saw, but a scalpel might be more say hippocratic."
China, "Self-analysis does not reveal the totality of the mind because there is always the division between the analyzer and the analyzed."
Jim, "We all know about the new mind body connection, but the new mind body disconnect is a wow, being different from the old one, because...
China, "But if you can observe the operation of your own mind without any sense of judgment, evaluation, without condemnation or comparison—just observe it as you would observe a star, dispassionately, quietly, without any sense of anxiety—then you will see that self-knowledge is not a matter of time, that it is not a process of delving into the unconscious to remove all the motives, or to understand the various impulses and compulsions. What creates time is comparison, surely, and because our minds are the result of time, they are always thinking in terms of the "more", which we call progress.
Jim, "Exactly. Observe, but do not think feel or think. Decreate time by failing to compare, and call it backsliding. But what if I prefer progress? Dr.?"
Council Member
Posts: 1,936
Location: china
Location: china
December 30th, 2007, 08:25 AM
Hi darkbeaver
my children.
Hi darkbeaver
Quote:
Glad you asked darkbeaver , these are some of the children which I have the privilige to help (financially) in their daily life and with their education .........it ain't heavy ....they're
China who are that good looking bunch of kids in your Avatar?
my children.
Council Member
Posts: 1,936
Location: china
Location: china
December 30th, 2007, 08:37 AM
jimshort19
China, "The self-knowledge is not to be learned from another."
jimshort19
China, "The self-knowledge is not to be learned from another."
Quote:
Jim, "O.K.! Let's move on to something we can do, say self ignorance or something."
self ignorance or something ?, that must be your response to this thread .
Jim, "O.K.! Let's move on to something we can do, say self ignorance or something."
Time Out
Posts: 415 
Videos: 3
Videos: 3
December 30th, 2007, 01:48 PM
Interesting that a thread about self-knowledge would come from a user posting under the pseudonym of China. As you may or may not know, Sun Tzu said, "If you know yourself and your enemy..."
But what is knowledge of one's self? Does one need to place one's self under surveillance in order to gain a better understanding of one's self? I think not! Does one gain an understanding of another by placing him or her under surveillance? Possibly! But one is more likely to learn only that the other is not happy about being under surveilance. Does that provide any real insight? Unlikely! One can probably reasonably expect that another would not like being under surveillance from the mere fact that one would not enjoy being under surveillance himself.
Which raises the following questions: 1) Does the surveillor know himself? 2) Does the surveillor know the surveilled?
I would suggest that the answer is in the negative on both counts.
So, Sun Tzu says that all warfare is based on deception. That raises two further questions: 1) Is the surveilled deceiving the surveillor? 2) Is the surveillor deceiving himself?
There's a possible third scenario: That the surveillor is deceiving the surveilled, but that would seem unlikely in most circumstances. The surveilled would have to be ignorant of the fact that he were being surveilled in order to be deceived by the surveillor. The surveillor could think himself deceiving the surveilled, but that would only indicate that the surveillor knows neither himself nor his enemy. And that can only lead to defeat according to Sun Tzu.
It's interesting! Thanks for bringing it up, China! Appreciate it!
Interesting that a thread about self-knowledge would come from a user posting under the pseudonym of China. As you may or may not know, Sun Tzu said, "If you know yourself and your enemy..."
But what is knowledge of one's self? Does one need to place one's self under surveillance in order to gain a better understanding of one's self? I think not! Does one gain an understanding of another by placing him or her under surveillance? Possibly! But one is more likely to learn only that the other is not happy about being under surveilance. Does that provide any real insight? Unlikely! One can probably reasonably expect that another would not like being under surveillance from the mere fact that one would not enjoy being under surveillance himself.
Which raises the following questions: 1) Does the surveillor know himself? 2) Does the surveillor know the surveilled?
I would suggest that the answer is in the negative on both counts.
So, Sun Tzu says that all warfare is based on deception. That raises two further questions: 1) Is the surveilled deceiving the surveillor? 2) Is the surveillor deceiving himself?
There's a possible third scenario: That the surveillor is deceiving the surveilled, but that would seem unlikely in most circumstances. The surveilled would have to be ignorant of the fact that he were being surveilled in order to be deceived by the surveillor. The surveillor could think himself deceiving the surveilled, but that would only indicate that the surveillor knows neither himself nor his enemy. And that can only lead to defeat according to Sun Tzu.
It's interesting! Thanks for bringing it up, China! Appreciate it!
